Adopted then lost? - Worthy Christian Forums

This is not a thread to continue the debate over who chose who. There are enough verses posted below to convince me of the answer to that question, so to me there is no debate over these quotes from the Bible.

My post on adopted children has morphed into a discussion of what a person chosen by GOD can do to loose their position in the family. So, I bring that question to you. Give me your best scriptures on "Sealed by the HOLY SPIRIT" and "For one to have tasted and turned away there is no way to turn back again". (with your best understanding of the scriptures)

I am in the camp of those who believe GOD will never cast a child off and that our salvation is unconditional.


Some quotes from JESUS;

Matthew 11:27(b) “...Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son and the one to whom THE SON wills to show HIM.”

John 6:37 “All that the Father gives to ME will come to ME...”
:44 “ No one can come to ME unless the FATHER draws them...”
:65 “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to ME unless it is granted to him by MY FATHER.”

John 1:12-13 “But as many as received HIM, to them HE gave the right to become children of GOD, to those who believe in HIS name; who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of GOD.”

John 8:43&47 “Why do you not understand MY speech? Because you are unable to listen to my word. He who is of GOD hears GOD's words; Therefore you do not hear, because you are not of GOD.” (ref. 1 John 4:6)

John 10:25-30 (condensed) “But you do not believe because you are not MY sheep. MY sheep hear MY voice and they follow me. No one is able to snatch them out of my FATHER's hand.”

John 17:9 “I pray for them, I do not pray for the world but I pray for those YOU have given ME, for they are yours.”

Matthew 16:17 “...flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but MY FATHER who is in heaven.”



The Letters and teachings of Paul affirm, explain and expound on the teachings of JESUS;

1COR 1:18 “For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to those of us who are being saved it is the power of GOD.” :24 “but to those who are called...” :26 GOD has chosen....GOD has chosen...” :28 “...GOD has chosen...” :30 “But of HIM you are in CHRIST JESUS...”

(We speak the word to those whose eternal destiny is fixed.)

2COR 2:15-16 “For we are to GOD the fragrance of CHRIST among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. To the one we are the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life...”

2COR 5:5 “Now HE who prepared us for this very thing is GOD...”

Romans 8:30 “Moreover whom HE predestined, these HE also called, whom HE called, these HE also justified, whom HE justified, these HE also glorified.” (all done by HIM and all a done deal even before you believed)

Romans 33 “Who shall bring a charge against those GOD has chosen? It is GOD who justifies.”

Romans 9:11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of GOD according to election might stand, not of works but of HIM who calls) :18 “Therefore HE has mercy on whom HE wills, and whom HE wills HE hardens.” :23-24 “and that HE might make known the riches of HIS glory on the vessels of mercy which HE had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom HE called...”

Acts 2:39 “for the promise is to...as many as the LORD will call”
Acts 13:48 “...as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.”

2Thess 2:13-14 “...because GOD from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by THE SPIRIT and belief in the truth, to which HE called you by our gospel...”

1Thess 1:4 “knowing, beloved brethren, your election by GOD.”

Now, this is not just “1 or 2 verses” and it is not even half of the verses that teach that we are adopted children of GOD that HE chose before the foundations of the earth.

Thank you in advance for your GRACE and KINDNESS towards one another in this discussion.

and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:19)

But the child can choose to leave God.

true kat,
i chose to turn away from Him and He allowed me to do so
but oh the joy when i turned and ran right back into His waiting and loving arms!
lv yr sis in Christ
manie

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HIS Love

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying,

Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. Jeremiah 31:3

HIS Birth

For unto us a child is born,

unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder:

and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God,

The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

HIS Blood

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself;

by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Colossians 1:20

HIS Assurance

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty,

dominion and power, both now and ever.

Amen. Jude 1:24-25

HIS Name

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it;

and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face;

and his name shall be in their foreheads. Revelation 22:3-4

Forever And Ever HIS

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16

Hallelujah!

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Hi Kross

One cannot lose what he never had to begin with. One of the evidences of the genuineness of our our faith is perseverence in that same faith. In short, if you walk away, you never had it to begin with. We are upheld by the power of God (1 Peter 1:5). There's just too much scripture to list.

While some people look at Revelation 3:5 as a great threat, it's actually a great promise.

"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels."

Who is he who overcomes?

1 John 5:5 says, "Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?"

True born again Christians always overcome. And God promises "I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life"

Those who didn't overcome...

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Peace

This post has been edited by Dave123: Dec 11 2008, 03:30 PM

Amen!

and again i say amen
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Then I am assuming you believe that once a child makes that choice he can never come back

Thanks guys

I wanted to add to my last post that this does not mean that we never have struggles in our faith. These struggles, if you will, work hand in hand with our growth in faith.

The crux of the whole issue between those who believe that one can lose, or give back their salvation. and those who believe in the eternal security of the believer can be summed up in this way...in the end, we both end up with an unbeliever. It's the theological route that one chooses to get to that point and it's implications that we should be careful to examine in light of the the complete scriptures. One side believes that this person gave back their salvation, or lost it, while the other side believes that that same person has given evidence that his faith was not genuine, therefore he was never saved to begin with. I believe that the latter holds up very well under the scrutiny of the complete scriptures, while the former gets crushed right out of the gates.

The warnings in scripture are of self deception, not of losing what God upholds, our salvation. If any of us were self deceived, we would want to know. That's why we weigh the genuineness of our profession of faith against the fruit of the same. God already knows. Hence, James 2. Here's more if you are interested. It touches on some of these things.

http://www.worthychristianforums.com/Diffe...0&start=140

Just a hunch, but I feel compelled to post this for someone.

It is ever the Holy Spirit's work to turn our eyes away from self to Jesus; but Satan's work is just the opposite of this, for he is constantly trying to make us regard ourselves instead of Christ. He insinuates, "Your sins are too great for pardon; you have no faith; you do not repent enough; you will never be able to continue to the end; you have not the joy of his children; you have such a wavering hold of Jesus." All these are thoughts about self, and we shall never find comfort or assurance by looking within. But the Holy Spirit turns our eyes entirely away from self: he tells us we are nothing, but that "Christ is All in All." Remember, therefore, it is not your hold of Christ that saves you--it is Christ; it is not your joy in Christ that saves you--it is Christ; it is not even faith in Christ, thought that be the instrument--it is Christ's blood and merits; therefore, look not so much to your hand with which you art grasping Christ, as to Christ; look not to your hope, but to Jesus, the source of your hope; look not to your faith, but to Jesus, the author and finisher of your faith. We shall never find happiness by looking at our prayers, our doings, or our feelings; it is what Jesus is, not what we are, that gives rest to the soul. If we would at once overcome Satan and have peace with God, it must be by "looking unto Jesus." Keep your eye simply on him; let his death, his sufferings, his merits, his glories, his intercession, be fresh upon your mind; when you wake in the morning look to him; when you lie down at night look to him. Do not let your hopes and fears come between you and Jesus; follow hard after him, and he will never fail you."--C.H. Spurgeon

--In Christ Jesus

This post has been edited by Dave123: Dec 11 2008, 08:48 PM