Church Discipline - Worthy Christian Forums

It has come up in a number of strings that there are those who hold to the idea of church discipline.

In Paul's day, the church was a group of believers who sold all they had, put it in one treasury, and shared equally with the people of the church.

So, the church was a picture of a group of Christians "Loving their neighbor as themselves" and they had the very real ability to make it tough for a person who was one of them to get a bite to eat.

So, my question is, in this modern world of Christians who look after themselves first and who go to churches that have little or nothing to actually offer a member, how do we institute is idea of Church Discipline?

For me, knowing that I am a sinful man, I can not stand in judgement of my fellow Christians, And I do not want to. I have absolutely no desire to play judge as to whether a person is of CHRIST or not.

Clearly, Scripture tells us to hold other's accountable;

1 Corinthians 5
Matthew 18

But one must belong to a church to be in the proper position for such things. Without the structure of the church, discipline can not be fully carried out as Christ expected it to be. If we do not discipline, He will! His judgement will be far worse than ours would ever be.

I believe that you need to reconcile your idea of chruch first, there are many churches out there that have plenty to offer Believers. Since the church is God's Church He will do with it as he sees fit. Fruitful churches or dead churches will be judged by Him accordingly, and that is not our business. Our job is to belong to one, be part of the congregation, and work on our own relationship with the Father so that we can be in a position to keep other's on a straight and narrow path.

Excellent response!

Keep in mind that 'dis-fellowshipping' is always done as a last resort, when nothing else has worked to bring the sinner to repentance. According to 1st Corinthians 5, we are to remove ourselves from someone whose conduct disgraces the church, not as punishment, but so the person is exposed to the world all by himself.
Personally, I believe it doesn't get used enough. I recall one instance where a lady started spreading gossip about someone at church that destroyed a good mans reputation and caused him all kinds of legal trouble. There wasn't a shred of truth to the lies she was spreading. Incredibly, she was allowed to stay when the truth came out with nary an apology.

I truly do not believe making sure they did not have anything to eat was what was on their hearts in their discipline of their members..
And God forbid it ever be ...
From what I read they were sorting out the ungodly and the influence they would have on believers....
I have never had anyone come to me out of a desire to hurt me but to encourage me in the faith...

I have needed discipline.. it is not a dirty word...
and I have also been very rebellious and refused to hear..bad choice on my part...
In their love they let me go the way of the prodigal..
If I had listened to them I would have saved myself the journey..

When we come to Christ we come with all our flaws and baggage from our past and we need someone to tutor us in righteousness..Yes..He is our teacher ...I know that..but I do not always hear Him ...
I needed that one to come and tell me "Hon, that skirt it obscene.."
"Hon, that was a hateful thing to do."
"Hon, you are responsible for...."
any number of things we need to bring discipline into our lives...

I would hope that at the church you attend there is a sense that you can trust their judgments..
that means that if they feel the Lord needs to work on something in your life you would at least pray about your submitting to that judgment ...
Gosh...what is a brother for..
Proverbs says..
Pro 17:17 A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for the time of trouble.
Whether that trouble be physical or spiritual trouble I am in..

Love sees our needs and shares that with us that we may grow up in Christ...
Godly leadership will look out for you...


1Co 5:9 I wrote to you in the letter not to associate intimately with fornicators;
1Co 5:10 yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then you must go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I have written to you not to associate intimately, if any man called a brother and is either a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what is it to me to also judge those who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
1Co 5:13 But God judges those who are outside. Therefore put out from you the evil one.

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have entered into the world, who do not confess Jesus Christ coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the anti-christ.
2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, so that we may not lose those things which we worked out, but that we may receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Everyone transgressing and not abiding in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ, he has both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house, nor speak a greeting to him.
2Jn 1:11 For he who speaks a greeting to him is partaker of his evil deeds.


Jud 1:17 But you, beloved, remember the words spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Jud 1:18 because they told you that at the last time there will be mockers according to their lusts, leading ungodly lives.
Jud 1:19 These are those setting themselves apart, animal-like ones, not having the Spirit.
Jud 1:20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
Jud 1:21 keep yourselves in the love of God, eagerly awaiting the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to everlasting life.
Jud 1:22 But pity some, making distinction.
Jud 1:23 But save others with fear, snatching them out of the fire; hating even the garment having been stained from the flesh.
Jud 1:24 Now to Him being able to keep you without stumbling, and to set you before His glory without blemish, with unspeakable joy;
Jud 1:25 to the only wise God, our Savior, be glory and majesty and might and authority, even now and forever. Amen.

I have seen the ungodly come in and try to get a member to come away with them..
Their only purpose in being there was to lead astray...
and I have seen it work..
the one who being led away learning to late they had been tricked ..
Had they been warned ..their life would have been very different...

Praise God for the Leadership that watches out for the members and warns them and disciplines them and works to train them up in righteousness...
We would, as a whole ,a lot better off today as a church if our leaders would rise up against the ungodly practices of some of the members in the church...


my 2 cents...

One more thought before I go...
Heb 12:10 For truly they chastened us for a few days according to their own pleasure, but He for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness.
Heb 12:11 Now chastening for the present does not seem to be joyous, but grievous. Nevertheless afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who are exercised by it.
Heb 12:12 Because of this, straighten up the hands which hang down and the enfeebled knees.
Heb 12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way, but let it rather be healed.

My question when it comes to complying with the Biblical commands to disfellowship with a member that refuses to repent of whatever action(s) that person may persist in practicing (e.g., such commands that are found in Matthew 18:17; I Corinthians 5:9,11; and II Thessalonians 3:6,14) is to what extent do these commands apply to the spouse of that disciplined person?

In what sense is the spouse to consider the displined member "a heathen" (as Jesus Christ Himself commanded in the Matthew passage)? Is the spouse of such a member really "not to eat" (1 Cor. 5:11) with him/her? Is that spouse really supposed to "withdraw" himself/herself from a spouse that "walketh disorderly" (2 Thess. 3:6) and "have no company with" him/her (2 Thess. 3:14)?

None of these direct commands ever carry with them any exception for the spouse of such a "disciplined" church member.

So what is the spouse of such a church member to do? Strictly comply with all of these direct commands, or violate them all since he/she is married to this "disciplined" church member?

ktn4eg, those are very good questions.

I believe that marital separation is warrented in these situations. Remember, each step should be handled in such a way as to reconcile and restore the person to fellowship with the Lord God Almighty. Not as "punishment" but as a means to help them as stated in Galatians 6

1 Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted.

We actually have a couple in our church that is going through this very thing at the moment. He is not a member, per say, so Church Discipline is rather difficult. She has gotten counseling from our Pastor and has separated from her husband, who is unrepentant of his sins. It's heartbreaking to see the disolusionment of this marriage. Satan is constantly working, and seeks to devour and divide.

The question is, does the "sinning spouse" actually know Jesus Christ as their personal saviour? Can they live in continued sin, without their conscience being pricked and claim the name of Christ?

Is separation warranted [Matthew 18 & 1 Cor 5] or do you treat them as an unbelieving spouse and stay for the sake of submission and salvation? [1 Cor 7:12-16]

I believe this is the reason we so desperately need Pastors who are willing to counsel their congregants. Biblical Counsel in these matters, specificied to their situation, is so lacking in most churches.

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I realize that the ultimate goal of any church discipline is not to give someone the boot out the church doors, but rather it is reconciliation:
1) First to the Lord, then
2) Those individual(s) that the subject has offended (This may or may not include the spouse in my question), then
3) Those individuals who may not necessarily been directly offended by the deed(s) that the offended committed (If the spouse wasn't included in #2 above, then he/she would probably be included here), then
4) To the entire corporate body of the local church to which the offending party belonged.

Now, this sequence isn't necessarily the one that must always be followed in absolutely every case, but merely a guide line.

Moreover, I've known of people that claim that the marriage vows supercede any decision of a local church when it comes to matters such as this. They usually get this from Genesis, contending that the marriage bond was ordained by God long before He ordained the local NT church. Thus they believe that in the majority of cases the non-disciplined spouse isn't compelled to withdraw from his/her marriage partner.

I guess it comes down to either what the married individuals choose to do or whatever may be in that particular church's by-laws or something such as that.

Of course IMO, long, long before this whole situation should ever occur there ought to be (pre-) marital counselling by the pastor (or at least one of the pastors if the church is very large). If one of the partners hasn't made a profession of faith in Christ as his/her personal savior, then that pastor needs to call a "time out" and proceed no further until the unsaved partner receives Christ as savior.

But, even two saved people, by that fact alone, aren't necessary automatically qualified to be married to each other. There are other issues (doctrinal as well as personal) that must needs be addressed as well.

However, in today's mobile society, you'll often find that couples will move from one church to another because they've moved from one location to another--the latter of which is too far removed from the former. What may "pass muster" in one local church may not do so in another local church, and that might include what former church believed or practices when it comes to maritial counselling. These are very sensitive and touchy areas, and I have no answer for how that should be handled. (What I'm talking about here is that one local church may offer little or no [pre-] martial counselling, and, even if it does, how far in depth does it go.)

So, let's say a couple (one of which is a high-ranking military officer) decides that they want to get married. They go to the pastor, who in this case is a relative of one of the parties and is strapped for cash due to medical bills that have been incurred by that pastor's children. The couple tells the pastor, there's "big bucks" for both you and your little 10-member church if you'll just marry us two. So that pastor does the untinkable and he yields to this temptation and marries them. (And don't say that this NEVER happens!)

Then, soon after that, the high-ranking officer unexpectantly gets orders to be transferred from one end of the country to the other end.

Now they seek membership in a rather large local church, but one that is quite adament on very specific issues in its [pre-] martial counselling. I mean down to the issues of, say, "storehouse tithing." If one partner disagrees on this issue, it's "end of discussion and there's the door." But this new couple is ALREADY married, and really want to join this particular local church because they believe this is where the Lord is leading as a place where they can be an active part of the work of this church. They do work out their differences on "storehouse tithing" and are received into the membership of this rather large church.

Then, the marriage partner who is not the high-ranking military officer does something that incurs coming under the discipline of this local church to the extent that this person is dis-fellowshiped from that local body. Then what is the high-ranking military officer to do? Whose orders does he/she follow? The ones of that local church that believes in following the commands of God's Word to a "t"?

I'm sorry I've rambled on about this, but I hope you get the picture I'm trying to paint of a very possible scenario.