If God's will is to save all His people - Worthy Christian Forums

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Some questions to address:

1. What does "all" mean?

2. When were the "all" given to Jesus?

3. Is the will of God with regard to this passage conditional or absolute? Why?

4. What does "lose nothing" mean?

There may be other questions to address so have at it.

LT

ALL

Albert Barnes Comm.
All, The original word is in the neuter gender, but it is used, doubtless, for the masculine, or perhaps refers to His people considered as a mass or body, and means that every individual that the Father had given Him should come to Him.
Geneva Bible Notes:
The gift of faith proceeds from the free election of the Father in Christ, after which everlasting life follows: therfore faith in Christ is a sure witness of our election, and therfore of our glorification, which is to come.

Absolute or Conditional

Adam Clarke Comm.
It is the will of G-d that every soul who believes should continue in the faith and have a resurrection unto eternal life. But He wills this continuance in salvation, without purposing to force the persons so to continue. G-d may will a thing to be, without willing that it should be

Lose nothing.

Albert Barnes Comm.

I should lose nothing. Literaly," I should not destroy". He affirms here that He will keep it to eternal life; that though the Christian will die, and his body return to corruption, yet he will not be destroyed. The Redeeemer will watch over him, though in his grave, and keep him to the resurrection of the just. This is affirmed of all who are given to Him by the Father, or, as in the next verse, " everyone that believeith on Him shall have everlasting life".

IMO, as to when the all was given to Christ, is of no importance to me or mankind in general. I'm just humbly grateful that He did.

John 6:37-39 Expositors Bible JSM All who the Father gives Me Shall come to Me (refers to all, whomever they may be, whether Israelites, Gentiles,, Pharisees, Scoffers, Harlots, or even the very Castaways of the Devil); and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast our (proclaims to all a promise of unparalleled proportion; no one has ever been turned away, and no one will ever be turned away).
38. For I came down from Heaven (proclaims God becoming man, thereby; the "Incarnation"),not to do My Own Will, but the Will of Him Who sent me (He is telling the Jews that Jehvah, Whom they claim to know and serve, is the Very One Who sent Him; and what He does and says is the Will of God, and to ignore it or reject it is to violate that Will).
39.Ant this is the Father's will which has sent Me (pertains to the ultimate Blessing of Redemption), that of all which He has given would be done), but should raise it up agin at the last day (speaks of the coming Resurrection, when all Believers will have all the benefits of the Cross).

I hope you can scroll up and down and see my answers ..... Here is my input,,,,

Hi Larry

This could be a lengthy answer, but I'll try to keep it as short as possible.



Isaiah 53:11 He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities.

John 6:37-39


all--that the Father gave Him. Sheep-elect.

John 10:11, “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.

John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.



Ephesians 1:4-5 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.




John 10:26-30 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are one.”

Ephesians 1:11,13-14 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, ...In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

1 Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.



Dave

This post has been edited by Dave123: Dec 6 2008, 12:47 PM

Larry, I wish to address the title of your thread:

If God's will is to save all His people, Will He be disapointed?


Firstly, I have grown weary of this endless free will vs. predestination debate.

However, this question posed to present an argument cuts to the heart, and I don't mean mine.

How can any of us understand a question like this when we cannot understand why He would make the angels knowing Lucifer would turn and ruin everything? Why He would make man knowing he would fall away as well? How can He create millions of people knowing that He'd have to send them to Hell?

Do you not believe it breaks God's heart every time He has to send someone from His presence like that?


So how can any of us callously flip around theology trying to make sense of the mind of God when we don't even try to grasp His heart?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/12.gif)

Hi Nebula,

I chose the title purposely. The God that I believe in is the Sovereign Lord of ALL. The issue is not free will or predestination. It is the Sovereignty of God in doing what He wills when He will for the purpose of His Own Glory. And He won't be disappointed in anything He does.

Your assumptions about what we can or cannot understand is inaccurate to say the least. We can understand anything that God decides to reveal to us. But before we can understand something about God we have to first believe it. And God chooses what He wants to reveal to whom He reveals it for His own purposes.

Do you believe that God made the angels knowing that they would disobey and follow Lucifer?

Do you believe that God made man knowing that man would choose to disobey?

If you believe these things then the why is not as hard to come to because you will know the true and living God as He is and not as we think He ought to be. He won't be a God of our imagination.

And why are you weary of the FW vs PreD debate? Is it because that is all you see? For me it is presenting the God of the bible as the God of the Bible. He is Sovereign and we are but His creatures.

This may surprise you but God will not be disappointed when most of mankind is cast away from Him. He is going to save all His people and none will be lost. He knows all His sheep and they will ALL be found. God was not obligated to save any of us when Adam fell, but He chose to save a people for Himself.

Many want to understand the "deep" things of God but refuse to believe what He says, take Him at His word.

Blessings,
LT

Uh, your OP is all about Predestination.

Biblical Predestination is not about who will or will not be saved, but what God has predestined believers for AFTER salvation. That is the problem. God knows who will or will not be saved. So, someone going to hell is not going to take Him by surprise. In every mention of predestination it is talking about believers not sinners. The Bible never mentions what God has predestined for sinners. It always talks about predestination in connection to what awaits believers.

Genesis 6:5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 The LORD said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Luke 10:10 “But whatever city you enter and they do not receive you, go out into its streets and say, 11 ‘Even the dust of your city which clings to our feet we wipe off in protest against you; yet be sure of this, that the kingdom of God has come near.’ 12 “I say to you, it will be more tolerable in that day for Sodom than for that city.
13 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had been performed in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 “But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the judgment than for you. 15 “And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will be brought down to Hades!

I don't believe the L-rd created man, with the intent to banish any from His presence forever, it is just a fact that such is the nature and the uniqueness of the creatures He created, that we somehow can miss out on the destiny for which He originally intended for all of us.

In Adam we have all tasted of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
In Messiah we can all taste of the tree of life.

There is a balance between the mercy and justice of G-d that is beyond our capabilities of fully understanding...and somehow it seems we are shielded from the enormity of a person that dies and G-ds justice merits eternal separation...but G-d is not shielded from this...the buck stops with Him...it must grieve Him. The question is then will this disappointment mar the beauty of the eternal plan of G-d that centred in the sacrifice of His Son and the ressurection?
I don't believe so, and the Scripture that comes to mind is an unusual one but here goes...

"Whenever a woman is in labor she has pain, because her hour has come; but when she gives birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish because of the joy that a child has been born into the world.

By His grace through faith we have been saved and obtained mercy....do we then understand the heart of G-d towards sinners, and how it grieves Him that a person should deny the Son...does it motivate us to direct others to the One in whom we found mercy!

Heaven rejoices over one sinner that repents.

LT -

Were you being purposefully condescending, or are you simply ignorant of the implication of your words?

"The God that I believe in..." implies that we do not believe in the same God.

Is this what you are thinking?



You make it sound like God, who is the essence of love, has no grief over the loss of all those people.



Romans 11:33-34
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
34 "For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor?"


1 Cor. 13
9 For we know in part . . . .
12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly. . . .


How can any man say he has God all figured out?

If your revelation of God doesn't leave you on your face in awe, humility, brokenness and basically feeling like your head has just been through an atom-smasher . . . did you really see Him?




For several reasons.

One side throws their Scriptures out that express their point, the other side throws its Scriptures around that express their point, and neither side can reconcile the verses the other presented - I've hung around enough of the debates to have noted this observation.

The crystal clarity in this is that somehow both aspects are true. It isn't a one or the other, it is both. How? I don't know. But that's part of what makes God so incredible! He somehow works in what to us seems to be contradictions! And that is one of the reasons God is so mind-boggling!


Is God mind-boggling to you?




(IMG:style_emoticons/default/emot-fail.gif) How can you claim to know the mind of God yet know so little about His heart?

Love would not, could not, make such a statement as what you just said.

If you do not believe God's heart breaks over the lost, then your theology isn't worth salt.

I like your post, especially this part:

"In Adam we have all tasted of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
In Messiah we can all taste of the tree of life."

..its almost as if GOD allowed this to happen so that he could give birth:

"Whenever a woman is in labor she has pain, because her hour has come; but when she gives birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish because of the joy that a child has been born into the world"

to the bride of Christ for his son, Jesus? And Jesus had to suffer and sacrifice to receive her? So that the joy of it would be complete at the end..

Is it possible? Is this what the story is about?