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#2121383 What's So Heretical About Preterism?

Posted by shiloh357 on 28 June 2014 - 04:27 AM

There are 10,000 different variations of Christianity.  Most are welcomed here no problem, even some stuff that is weird by my standards.  Once the Preterist view is brought up, for one it gets erased in my experience.  Would someone care to enlighten me how this view cannot coincide with being an acceptable Christian?

Not only is it based on bad hermeneutics and bad theology,   Preterism is an assault on God's character.   Preterists believe that God is finished with the Jews and that because of the death and resurrection of Jesus, all of the covenantal blessings made to the Jews have been transferred to the Gentile Church.

 

This is problematic theologically because it means that God is unfaithful.  If God transferred all of His promises to the Jews to someone else, then God was not faithful to the Jews and if that is the case, if God was unfaithful to the Jews to do what He promised then on what basis do we have any assurance that God will be faithful to us?

 

They view all prophecy as mostly symbolic.   When it comes to the prophecies of the end of the age, for the whole world, the preterist views this as the end of the age for Israel, not the whole world.  Thus everything in Revelation is interpreted through that filter.  The destruction of Babylon, for example in Revelation 18 is the destruction of Jerusalem which they correlate to the fall of Jerusalem to the Romans in 70 AD.  

 

But in Revelation 18, the destruction of Babylon is mourned worldwide by world leaders and by all of those who were major business owners who profited through their association with Babylon and by those who profited by in the shipping and distribution industries.

 

Jerusalem doesn't fit that description. No one mourned the destruction of Jerusalem.

 

The HUGE issue for preterists is the bodily second coming of Jesus.  The bodily second coming of Jesus is prophesied more than the first coming of Jesus.  Yet for the preterist the second coming of Jesus was symbolic for the fall of Jerusalem.  They see the destruction of Jerusalem as the fulfillment of the second coming and in their view ends or sums up all of prophecy.    They see all of prophecy as merely poetic and symbolic, so that nothing you read is as it seems.   From that perspective, interpretation of Bible prophecy becomes arbitrary and the reader is free to make anything he reads to be "symbolic" without any justification from the text. 

 

The beautiful thing about Bible prophecy is how so much of it has already been fulfilled, literally as written.   When we look at the prophecies already fulfilled by Jesus and fulfilled historically to Israel and other peoples, we see an unmistakable pattern of LITERAL fulfillment.   The prophecy about the city of Tyre and its final destruction can be historically verified.  The prophecies of Jesus' virgin birth, sinless life, ministry, death, burial and resurrection are fulfilled literally, to the letter.   There fulfilled prophecies about the return of the Jews to their historic homeland that are fulfilled historically to the letter.   This nullifies the view of preterists that prophecy is nothing more than symbolic poetry.

 

And this really goes back to the faithfulness of God, again.   God is glorified when we can point to who He is and what He has done. God's character and operations form the basis of both our faith in Him, that we can trust His character, but also our hope, our eager anticipation for the prophetic promises He has yet to fulfill.   It is the fact of fulfilled prophecy that provides us with a testimony of God's faithfulness.   If prophecy is purely symbolic poetry as the preterists claim, then there is nothing for us to anchor our hearts to.  Notice the following Scripture:

 

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
(Tit 2:11-14)

 

If prophecy is nothing more than symbolic poetry, then this passage in Titus makes no sense.  Here Paul is calling Christians to purify themselves in view of Christ's coming.  Why, if the second coming of Jesus is just symbolic of the destruction of Jerusalem, would Gentile Christians need to purify themselves in view of Jerusalem's destruction?

 

Secondly, since this Titus was written before 70 AD, would the original audience understand that Paul was talking about the destruction of Jerusalem?  How would they have interpreted any reference to the second coming of Jesus as referring to the destruction of Jerusalem?  The answer is that they couldn't have interpreted in that way.

 

So Preterism violates historical propriety in how it views prophecy.  One important rule of thumb in biblical hermeneutics is that a passage of Scripture cannot mean today, what it didn't mean back then.

 

There is historical evidence that second century (100-200 AD) believers viewed the second coming of Jesus as still future and interpreted the Scriptures that way: 

 

16:6 Then appear the signs of truth. With the first sign, heaven opens, then the sign of the sounding trumpet, and thirdly the resurrection of the dead.
16:7 Yet, not of all the dead, but as it is said : “The Lord will come and all his saints with him”.
16:8 Then the world will see the Lord coming on the clouds of heaven.
  http://www.sofiatopi...eon/didache.htm

 

Many of the early church fathers viewed the second coming as future to their lifetime as well.

 

So even the Christians who lived nearly a generation after the destruction of Jerusalem did not see the destruction of Jerusalem as fulfilling the prophecies of Jesus' second coming


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#2117122 Let's Post!

Posted by Hippie333 on 15 June 2014 - 05:23 PM

Shalom and Heyas Gang!

  You know, I am one of those that is so truly thankful for Worthy Forums and the Worthy Chat room.....I have been here for going on 2yrs now, and continue to be blessed over and over from the people in all areas here. There are so many here believers and non-believers alike that bring an incredible amount of fellowship, learning and study to the table we all sit at here. I really enjoy some of the depth and theology in the topics. I also feel so touched by the prayers offered and said for others here in the prayer area....so much love to be found. I really do appreciate all the hard work done by all the ministry staff here ( Chat Admins, Board Admins, Watchmen, and Platinum) ....they do sooooo much behind the scenes..not just moderating but in personal one on one ministering, listening and doing all they can to try to serve the Lord here. It's a tough job, mentally draining sometimes....and it's all volunteer work...( free ). That being said...and being one of those blessed to ask to serve here....

  I have something to ask of everyone here at Worthy. I know we truly believe what we believe....and we so want to help others, teach others, reach out to others....that it can get pretty heated in the discussions here. I am OK with that...it's passion for what we believe....and if I did not see that here, I would probably not have stuck around so long. I just ask......please, please, speak to each other with kindness, compassion and LOVE for one another. Sometimes it seems that we are so focused on speaking the truth to others, that we forget how we need to DELIVER that truth. The very second we say something in truth but with no love and kindness in our words...we shut the door. Yes, we do...it's sad but true and sadly enough it's not rare. When we speak the truth, and are absolutely right....if we go about it the wrong way, we are still wrong. So that love that Christ asks us to have for one another, I think....should be on our hearts and minds as we post.

  Now....also, if we speak with just love and blur the truth to not hurt feelings, or make someone feel better....we are wrong there as well. We cannot withhold the truth...and just speak love and kind words, I think we all know where that can lead. When that person gets the truth after going a while being told something different...it can be spiritually a slap in the face, confusing and damaging to them. I know we don't want either of these types of things to happen....so we have to walk that thin line, between Love and Truth....the truth strong enough to stand, and show the way...and the love to open the hearts and be let in. We have time here, on the boards and even in chat, to slow down a minute and think about what we say, before we say it. So, let us do that....even when the other person is not doing that. Let it go, forgive and be the light or truth and love that Christ so wants from us.

 

Anyway Worthy Peoples! I love you all, I love seeing the Holy Spirit speak thru others here....I love the fellowship here....I just want to see God's Holy Holy Holy Word.....cherished and spread here in a way that truly edifies Christ Our Savior!

 

God Bless,

 Hip

 

Matthew  22:36  Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Matthew  22:37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matthew  22:38  This is the first and great commandment.
Matthew  22:39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew  22:40  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


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#1991466 Why I Post Bible ~ FresnoJoe

Posted by FresnoJoe on 24 August 2013 - 12:57 PM

March 10, 2007

 

In my question to Christians I said I was not being curt or snide but asking an honest question. If I offended you somehow, I apologize for that but still believe the question to be legitimate. I quote Scriptures all the time but, have learned to add their meaning and relevance and personal conversation in exhortation and friendly talk. The reason is they are just words and makes us the appearance of "Bible Thumpers" through scripture but no Living Water with them. The Word says His Word will pour out of OUR Bellies like Living Water. Without that, they are like "tinkling brass" most times. If anyone of us look back to those who reached our hearts before we came to Christ, we see it was a real application of Scripture in Words with His Word Living in them yet, not changed from their meaning. That is my point and I believe Jesus' point when He talked of Living Water. Look at His conversations with people, lowly non=educated common people. They were amazed at His conversation because they heard the Law in the Temple read by the priests and scribes But Jesus brought them to Life as did All His disciples/Apostles. Thing about it..

Blessings in Jesus,

Brother Ron Cruise

 

:thumbsup:

Point taken brother.
No offense.

Ron, you are a true brother.
Our Lord has some purpose in our discussion which will bring Glory to Him.

"A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver."
(Proverbs 25:11)

I know my Lord and He always leads me besides still waters and into the pastures I need.
It may have taken 23 years or so, but when He moves, it is perfect. :24:
God also has an amazing sense of humor and I am beginning to laugh at myself as I see a little of what He is doing with our dialog.

Yes Lord and Amen!

He is so dear maybe I can sit at His feet for a few billion years or so and just drink Him in before I get busy with whatever He has for me to do!

I lead with my heart, so be assured brother, an honest answer.

I am not impressed with my words nor with the words of man.
However, My soul paints for His Word.

The Bible Bot in Chat is a personal favorite of mine at Worthy.
I would love to see it tag a Bible scripture at the end of each post on the boards.

The only thing that has saved my life since I was six years old is The Word of God and The God behind it.
God put the Bible into my young hands and people into my young life to teach me to read it.
The KJV was my reading primer when I was five, six and seven.
This was one of the first verses planted into my heart and it has never left me.

"Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."
(Psalms 119:11)

The Christian parents in my young life brought extreme pain and suffering to me but God never left me nor did He ever forsake me.
I love them dearly and pray for them in their old age (Dad is slowly dying) and I look forward to spending eternity with them as I do with secondeve and emeralgirl should God be Gracious unto them and they respond. Cartwheels before The Throne?

The Bible was where I learned to truly love.
It is the only reason I still have a marriage and a passionate one at that after 37 years with my sweetheart!
It is the only reason I knew how to love my baby boy.

It is the reason I quit drinking stone cold when I got angry at my wife 28 years ago while drunk.
It is the reason I just quit smoking last summer after 46 years of a pack-a-day non-filters with no patch, no desire to quit and no conviction of sin!
I just wanted to get even closer to Jesus down here because He hasn't taken me home to Him yet.
Quitting cigarettes was all of Jesus and none of Joe.

The Holy Bible was a Mother's love and a Father's council to me as a child.
It is my everything and, along with the wife of my youth, my comfort as I grow old and feeble.

The WORD through The Word is the most precious thing I have to offer the dear folks at Worthy.
Scriptures are my lifeline to God's Love and I post them out of love.

Please forgive me one more time but I do need to check the "tinkling brass" reference.
Ah!
Love!
The fruit of abiding in Jesus!


"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."
"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."
"And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing."
(1 Corinthians 13:1-3)

Yes and Amen Lord!


Dear Brother, these "Bible Thumping" Words I post are the very words of life, love and hope to me.
I do not get the same joy and instructions from any man or woman until they begin to speak Bible Words.

It breaks my heart and grieves my spirit to see the tossing out of God's Word throughout the "civilized" Christen world.
Many of the through-the-Bible verse by verse Churches today, speed read the Bible in the evenings and talk and talk and talk incessantly about their personal views and their personal life in the morning "application" service.
They used to show Jesus with every sermon even in Books like Leviticus but the anointing has left them or I came on the wrong days.

I am too old and sick for this nonsense so I fall asleep and then I snore and my wife has really sharp elbows so I can't sit there any more and my ribs still hurt! There are other health issues which also keep us away.

I hope and pray Christians will share God's counsel with any unsaved friends they love and fellowship with at Worthy.
I would hope and pray the unsaved would nail their Christian friends to the wall until they receive a true understand of who Jesus is and why He is the most important person ever to walk the earth and why it is needful to act now!


I know God says it far better then I can and, without posting The Word I'll probably get it wrong but here goes!

Sin is real and more deadly to the soul of the sinner than the venom of a viper and it is totally nasty in God's sight and cannot be in His presence.

Hell is real and eternal.

All have sinned.

God The Father so loved the sinner that He laid the lashes for all the sins upon His Beloved Son to save the few who will receive His Gift.

Jesus, God The Son, totally without sin, so loved His Father and the sinner that He went to and stayed upon The Cross and became sin and took all the lashes needed to full pay the sin debt of the whole world to save the few who will receive His Gift!

All you need to do is to turn away from your nasty old sinful self, repent of your nasty old sinful self and receive God's gift by faith.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
(John 3:16)

Which you can't even do by yourself except for The Holy Spirit drawing you to God and convicting you of your horrible sinfulness and Jesus' total innocence and totally breaking your heart for what you have done!


Perhaps you are correct brother.
My Heart will not allow me to past by a lost and hurting person without leaving a few of the Words of Life.
Maybe I should just give in and change my user name to Thumper!

A new apologetics is settling over Western Christendom.
One where God's Holy Word is not welcome, period.
Although Worthy has some of these young "Christian" Turks swarming around it, this apostasy has not and I think will not strike deep into the Worthy Boards or Worthy Chat.

You can discuss science, weather, news or anything you desire and you can quote anything or anyone except extreme profanities and most all obscenities but you can not post any Bible scripture whatever.
We have young ones coming onto Worthy claiming Christ as their Lord and Savior but hating God's Word and actively trying to stop it's appearance at Worthy.
They have poled the unbelievers on other web sites to discover what they are comfortable with and then these "Christians" actively campaign to keep all Bible quotes or any Christian references to "creation" off "their" boards here at Worthy.

It's the strangest thing I've seen outside of a cult!
Like some made-up fake Antichrist bolted together by a Frankenstein committee of Atheist Adults and Bible-less, Jesus-less teenage Church kids claiming to be Christians.
He is a all evolutionist, all symbolic Bible and all science is the savior of earth and Mankind but, somehow, still he is "Christian".


Ron, I am truly saddened when I hear the Words of Jesus which are life to me are just thumping to the lost and the hopeless!
You and I both know what a closed Bible means and it is a heart breaker!.
When I see this reaction, it does break my heart and sends me to The Throne and to plead for The Word and The Holy Spirit to act upon the Heart.


"The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:"
"The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:"
"The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace."
(Numbers 6:24-26)

"And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them." (Numbers 6:27)

Love, Joe


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#2117972 I like gays

Posted by Butero on 18 June 2014 - 09:22 AM

That comment, "I like gays," doesn't make any sense to me.  That is like me saying, "I like straights" because a lot of them are nice.  You can't take a group of people and make generalizations like that.  There are a lot of homosexuals that are in your face militants.  I would be more inclined to say that I like friendly people as a whole, and I don't care about their sex life.  It is amazing how today, a person's identity is determined by who they are sleeping with. 


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#2095940 So thankful that God has kept me...

Posted by Mswright6488 on 16 April 2014 - 08:50 AM

I praise Jesus for keeping my life when so many times I should of been dead. I am so grateful that He never gives up on us. That fact that I am called and chosen by God almighty,  makes me feel more precious than many gems and much gold! We are all a walking praise report just by opening our eyes every morning. And every morning God puts a new song in our heart to sing. Thank you precious Lord for choosing us!


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#2036484 How do you pray?

Posted by bopeep1909 on 30 November 2013 - 11:49 PM

Sometimes God does not answer our prayers the way we want Him to.Sometimes He will say "yes".Sometimes he will say "no" and sometimes he will say "wait I have something better". We need to pray that Gods Will Be Done.Sometimes it takes a while for our prayers to be answered in God's timing.Sometimes we have to be patient. 


  • 6


#1722746 OC - To the Believers - read often!

Posted by Botz on 21 September 2011 - 05:07 AM

1. In Outer Court, those who don't share our beliefs are welcome. This is a place where seekers and nonbelievers alike can ask us about our beliefs and engage in productive discussion regarding faith and other topics.

2. As Believers we should extend to them every courtesy, especially as there was a time when we too did not know the Saviour.

3. Sometimes the interaction can get a bit heated as each party seeks to present their view, this is inevitable if people are passionate about what they are discussing. We ask that seekers, nonbelievers, and members alike who post in Outer Court maintain civility and follow the 
Terms of Service and that posters maintain vigilance with regards to this, especially when in a more heated discussion.

4. This section of the Boards should be covered with prayer and grace, and this should be evident in the way we treat our guests and unbelieving friends.

5. The only Believers who should be here are those that are happy to engage those who don't share our faith. Please understand that it is possible to disagree with someone without resorting to personal attack. Also, brothers and sisters in Christ, please be cognizant of the fact that tough questions may be asked here and when this happens it's not necessarily an attack on our faith or on God. (I suggest you pray about this).

 

6.  We do ask that anyone who perceives a violation of the Terms of Service make use of the Report button on the bottom left side of each post. This will make it far less likely that threads end up locked or closed, as it allows us to handle situations before they spiral out of control. Most closures occur because of personal attacks (debating the person, not the subject). If you feel attacked please report it and refrain from responding in kind.

 

Galatians 5:22-26 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,  gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.  Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
 

If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. 26 Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another. 


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#2124398 A Question About Matthew 7:1-5

Posted by shiloh357 on 06 July 2014 - 04:18 AM

Here is how some people read that passage:  

 

JUDGE not, that ye be not judged.

2  For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:  and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3  And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4  Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5  Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

That is the problem.  They don't really the whole thing.  Jesus is speaking against hypocritical judgment.  He is not saying we don't have the right to expose sin that we see taking place in the world.  This is the passage that people bring up to shield themselves from having to be faced with the sin in their lives.


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#2122004 My testimony

Posted by jmlusa2000 on 29 June 2014 - 08:43 PM

    It is time for me to share my testimony with all of you....It goes back several years. I am not real good sometimes at getting straight and to the point, so please bear with me if it goes on and on. :)

I grew up in a military family. My dad was in the Navy, and he was often deployed or away.  We moved a lot, and had to make several transitions, including changing schools, finding a new place to live, new friends, etc. It became harder and harder to make transition the older I became. In 1993, my dad got out of the Navy. I am not sure of why he got out really. After he got out, he turned to gambling, which eventually tore our family apart. We could not live in our house any longer, and had to move to a 2 bedroom apartment. He had difficulty finding a job to support our family where we lived at the time in Fallon, Nevada. God saw my family through a very difficult time...my dad had gambled all the family's money away. God brought a very special lady into our life who provided food for us. Her family became good friends with us.

Eventually, my dad got offered a job in Wisconsin (his home state, where his parents lived). In order for us to move, my dad had to sell everything we had besides what would fit in the car. It was very difficult to watch all my things "go away before my own eyes" I was 12 at the time. We moved to Wisconsin with what little we had besides the clothes on our backs....and in the back of my head, and all over my body, I lived with hatred and anger bottled up inside of me. I was thinking then (not what I think now)...."thanks dad, because of you, I had to leave all my friends and now we have nothing". When we moved to Wisconsin, I did not like it. No one accepted me for who I was. People made fun of me, and called me all sorts of names, and threw spit balls at me. I was too shy to speak up for myself, and too afraid of retaliation if I were to say something. I had no friends. When I tried to introduce myself to people, they moved away from me. I ate lunch by myself. Every day was such a sad day :( . I really didn't cry, but yet I was so sad, angry and bitter, and upset on the inside. Eventually, I was so torn up on the inside, I was so close.....and I went outside with a big knife, and was ready to take my own life. I was 14 at the time...(during my 8th grade year). Right before...and I was so close to taking my life....I felt a real sense of peace and heard a voice say "Joanna don't do it PLEASE DON'T, there is so much more that life has to offer you".  I accepted Jesus into my heart. I joined a support group for people who have had thoughts of suicide, and for children living in "troubled" families. I met people facing similar situations as myself. I was then very shy, and needed encouragement to speak at times. I was so confused though...my parents did not have much to do with my spiritual up-bringing. I knew though from what I heard that the truth was in the Bible. I bought a teen Bible. :) I began reading. It was so confusing, and difficult to understand. I have a reading comprehension delay, so reading has always been challenging for me. I did not know who to turn to for help. I had started reading in the old testament, and eventually became discouraged and frustrated. I "gave up" on reading the Bible. I did not feel comfortable talking with my mom or my dad about Jesus....I turned to my grandma....she lived in England...I could not talk to her very often as it was a very long distance phone call. My grandma understood me, and I felt very comfortable talking to her. She shared with me about Jesus, and about the Bible, and about the church, etc. I then decided to join a church. I was young, and did not have much critical thinking skills...I dived right into a church that essentially preaches a false doctrine. I did not know this right away.....but a few years later after going to this church, I did realize what the truth was....Ephesians 2:8 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God". We don't earn our way to heaven by doing good works. Jesus died on the cross for our sins. We all are sinners. I don't have to confess my sins before a priest. I can confess directly to God. 

   The summer before my senior year, my dad "ran away from home"...His gambling continued.  He went back to Nevada. We had no way of contacting him. He knew how to get a hold of us though, if he wanted to. We never tried to find him as a family and ask him to come back, so we could get our family back on the right track. October 15, 2003...we got a phone call that my dad had passed away. He was in Nevada, and he had been heavy into gambling and drinking. I did not even cry or grieve after hearing about my dad's passing. I went to work that day, and the next day, I went to school (college), and took two tests. One day, out of the blue about 2 years after my dad passed, a couple of my friends at college asked me about my family, and I told them about my dad...and that he passed away...I began to feel like I was going to cry....and I did, and it felt so good. I grieved my dad's loss, and I totally forgave him for gambling, and all the difficulty it caused my family. I moved forward.

I have fallen several times, and have been so confused along my walk . Jesus picked me up each time.....moving several years forward. .....Recently (Easter Sunday of 2014), I re-dedicated my life to Christ. I had been away for the word for a long time, and had been living a life in sin. I spent much time confessing directly to God, and I got back to reading the word. I bought myself a new Bible. I want to read the word to understand and know how to live my life, and walk in the light of the truth. Psalm 119:105 "Your word is a lamp for my feet, and a light on my path." I also was lead by the holy spirit to join a new church. I want to hear the word of God as it stands in truth, and not the word the church wants me to hear.  I am trying very hard to find life balance. Sometimes, I have read so much in the Bible, that the household chores and everything else gets put on the back burner, so to speak. I am still working to find the happy medium. :) I know I have been given the holy spirit (John 14:26), and God will not let me be tempted beyond what I can bear, and He will provide a way out

(1 Corinthians 10:13). God's love me so much, He sacrificed  the life of His son. He paid the price for my sins...wow.  John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 


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#2117128 Let's Post!

Posted by kwikphilly on 15 June 2014 - 06:11 PM

Blessings Hippie

      Happy Fathers Day ,my Brother .......God Bless you & your family & of course,praise the Lord!

Hippie,no truer words could be spoken in your OP & it is a wonderful reminder that at all times we MUST think of Who it is we are representing!I set a few simple guidelines for myself & it has helped me on many occasions.....Above all,I pray & ask that I be Gods vessel & for His help to continue to walk in spirit & in truth but this is not ALWAYS the case......there are days I simply cannot seem to get it together & I am bound by my flesh,I am sure everyone goes through these times......those are the times I refrain from posting at all.....lol

      Well,how about those days we are simply not exactly "prayed up" enough but would like t fellowship & interact with our Worthy Family?That is when I remember those guidelines .....

1-Am I walking in spirit & in truth today?Can I follow the Fathers lead?   I have to ask myself  what condition is my spirit in,,,,,,,,,& know

2-If I am offended,insulted or annoyed,,,,,,I am in the flesh & need not respond

3-Is what I am about to say going to edify,encourage,bring peace,love or joy to anyone?What is my response going to do,anything good?

4-Do I have the experience or knowledge to minister to someone or answer their question

5-Can I voice my opinion ,though it is contrary to others with kindness & gentleness  

6-Am I trying to prove my point or what I believe to be Gods Truth?

I cannot help what anyone else says but I try to remember that I am always accountable for what I say..........

 

I ask myself these things before I begin my day at Worthy,& in all things give God the Glory............

                                                                                                                                          With love-in Christ,Kwik


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#2116621 A New Take On Generational Curses

Posted by Sevenseas on 14 June 2014 - 10:11 AM

I absolutely believe that curses are still in effect.  Those who are not saved are certainly living under a curse and whatever other curses that their ancestors, parents or they themselves have brought down on themself.

 

Just one answer for that:

 

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-- for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE   Galatians 3:13

 

God cursed a number of things when Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden....have those curses been revoked?  

 

Generational curses are in the Bible whether someone believes in them  or not.

 

As Christians, we accept that Christ became a curse for us and bore all our sins and all that we could ever commit.

 

Disobedience to God invokes curses.  See the OT


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#2115126 What does this passage tell us about Jesus fulfilling the Old Law?

Posted by shiloh357 on 09 June 2014 - 03:39 PM

 

 

 

Matthew 15:3-7

King James Version (KJV)

But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;

And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

 

 

Seems like God wants us to keep the Deuteronomy laws. What say you? 

 

He was actually addressing Pharisaical hypocrisy.

 

Actually honoring your parents is a NT commandment as well. 

 

So, what is the punishment if you disobey your parents?

 

I guess you go to bed without your supper.


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#2109110 Why should I become Christian when ...

Posted by Fez on 22 May 2014 - 01:44 PM

 

Sim please explain your religion of Baha'i to me.Who is God to you?I am sorry that you have had a negative experience and maybe I can explain in a Christian way why you might have been labeled as an unbeliever.Jesus Christ loves you.

 

Thank you, bopeep. I will gladly answer all questions you may have about the Baha'i faith, but I am not sure if this is the right forum here and I don't want to come across as attempting to convert anybody.

 

So just a short answer: God is one and only and undivided, the creator of everything, and it's man's highest goal to recognize Him. But we can only see God through His divine messengers, or prophets or manifestations (no matter how you call them), such as for example Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Baha'u'llah. We believe in Jesus Christ, that He was born to virgin Mary and fathered by the Holy Spirit, but we also believe Baha'u'llah was the "helper" announced in John 14 and 16. That's where we differ from Christians.

 

We focus on Baha'u'llah's teachings, because we believe He was the most recent prophet, but we also believe in the other prophets and believe they are essentially the same in their core, and we must not place one of them before the other.

 

I know, this sounds absurd for many Christians perhaps, but that is the same feeling I have towards some Christian teachings. So I think we should live and let live, right? :)

 

So I think we should live and let live, right?

 

Sorry, no, you are wrong.

 

The bible is the only truth. And the only way to God is through His Son Jesus.

 

I am sorry if that makes you angry, but the truth must be told. You serve a false prophet, and his way leads to death.

 

Please, please, consider your position, your eternity rests on it.


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#2106167 Weather Machines?

Posted by Butero on 14 May 2014 - 10:57 AM

chemtrails, a wildly sought after conspiracy with little to no evidence. mist? ever hear of fog? thing is, on average were actually cooler now then 100 years ago. I have no doubt certain people maybe trying to control the weather using different methods-but I sincerely doubt that theyve been very successful. Perhaps in changing it in small centralized areas perhaps with large amounts of energy, but on a wholescale no, the idea is ludicrous-almost as much so as "global warming" 

I disagree.  I believe there is a good possibility that the government sprays chemtrails to experiment on the people to see how they react to various degrees of pollutants and germs.  I also believe the government can at least stall weather fronts, causing flooding and other problems in some cases.  There is just too much evidence something is taking place.  At this point, I don't care if I look like some kind of conspiracy nut for saying so.  One way the government controls the masses is by trying to make us feel like we are crazy for raising red flags.  I would rather people discuss possible conspiracy theories than keep their head in the sand. 


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#2105924 Weather Machines?

Posted by Littlelambseativy on 13 May 2014 - 01:16 PM

There are too many photos indicating weather control. Contrails dissipate rather quickly, chemtrails do not but spread and form clouds and after watching them for years , within 2-3 days of seeing chemtrails, invariably there is rain or storm. Watch the sky.
At this point in time, the US, Russia,China, Europe etc. are all attempting to get to the point of using weather control to control the enemy's military advantage. Does God allow it? I think He is letting man have his way, tho' ultimately God is in control when it suits HIS purpose!
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#2101471 What is real freedom to A child of God?

Posted by other one on 30 April 2014 - 05:53 PM

To me freedom in Christ is the loss of the fear of death...    That is basically what Jesus did on the cross......   he took away the curse of spiritual death that we inherited from Adam..

 

Freedom is not the ability to do what we want......   but the ability to understand and do what the Father wants....


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#2036832 How do you pray?

Posted by Omegaman on 01 December 2013 - 06:28 PM

I think also, that to pray in the name of Jesus, means to pray, confident in the authority He gave us. We still use this sort of language today: Stop, in the name of the law" means that one is being ordered to stop, because the law has authority.
Jesus has authority, and when we recognize that, use it, are obedient to it and seek Gods will, we are praying authoritatively, praying in the name of Jesus.
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#1933337 Please Read Before You Start A Thread

Posted by OneLight on 23 March 2013 - 11:21 AM

This forum is the Welcome Forum, designed for new members to say Hi and to introduce your self. It is not a place for a discussion on specific questions, suggestions or requests. If you are answering a post, just welcome the new member and wait to join the conversation they present when they post in the proper forums.

Lately, this forum has taken on the identity of the General Forum and this is not what the Welcome Forum is meant to be. After 5 posts, the new member can start a thread in the proper forum to discuss what is on their minds. Be respectful to the guidelines of each forum and enjoy your time with us!

God Bless.
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#1887795 A word from this Ministry - Please Read

Posted by OneLight on 21 November 2012 - 01:24 PM

What is going on lately? Why is there so much discord/division? Why are there so many personal attacks, insults and downright disrespect toward each other?


I have been asking these questions to myself as I read the reports and check threads of interest. I wanted to blame it on the intensity of the election, but the election has passed and this still continues. I have only my imagination to measure how the results have affected people’s lives.


I do know one thing. God is preparing this world for the return of His Son. When I look to Scripture for a description of how the world will be, it is much uglier than what I see today. Yet what I do see is an escalation to what He tells us will happen. I am concerned that if we, because of just one election, become so quick to judge and cause pain, what will we be like when it continues to get worst? I have to shake my head due to the images this question brings to me. I do not like what my imagination shows.


We are His children, whether or not we agree with who should run the country, what we should pay for taxes, who does what to themselves, and how disturbing the future looks as we remember our past. We are not these things, though they have an effect on us if we allow it. We need to continue to seek God and follow His directions. We need to keep our focus on Him and what He has called us to do.


So, how does all this relate to my questions? I am convinced that we in ministry cannot continue to allow things to get too far down the wrong road before we step in. At one time, members used to work things out after a few posts, but that is not what I have been seeing in the past months. So, I ask everyone to do the following:
  • If you know you are butting heads with another member, be the first to offer an olive branch and be the peacemaker.
  • If you notice that you are getting heated by another’s response, walk away from the thread until you know you have His peace back in your life over the issue.
  • If you feel strongly about an issue between you and another member, offer to debate it in the Soap Box forum so the two of you can focus on each other’s response and not all the other posts of those who want to be involved.
  • Check your attitudes as you post, ensuring that what you are posting is exactly what you want to post.
  • Watch your words. Using passive aggressive statements are just as cutting and demeaning as an outright insult.
  • Ensure that you are discussing the issue, not the person.
  • If you have a personal statement to another member, take it private and remain respectful.
  • Take the time to ensure that what you think someone is saying is what they are saying, not reading into another’s post.
  • Ask questions for clarification when a statement is unclear instead of assuming you know what someone is saying is advisable.
  • Back up your words with supporting Scripture. If you don’t, one could easily see a post as “cause I said so”, which goes absolutely nowhere.
  • If you witness a wayward post or thread, please report it. We cannot be everywhere at once and there are far too many threads to read through to catch everything. I would rather have to filter through many reports then to have anyone think we are playing favorites by allowing a member to blast another member, or that a topic is allowed when it should not be.
  • Always seek the guidance from the Holy Spirit as to how to reply to a post.
  • Last, but far from the least, post as if you are posting to Jesus, because He is with you and everyone else.

We are trying our best to turn Worthy into a place where heavy discussions and debates are without any insults and attacks. If you are not already familiar with our Terms of Service or Statement of Faith, please do familiarize yourself with them both.


By taking time to become aware of what you are posting is a start. We will not accomplish this overnight, but by taking one-step at a time, we will all feel safer about who we are and what we believe. I know that when I have a wall up, which is the result of negative posting, I am not going to accept any correction I may need that is brought to me through the one who is insulting me while offering me truth.


The other side of the coin is that if we find people continuing to attack and insult, we will be restricting them from posting for a few days so they can consider their actions. In the past, all we had was Mod Review or a ban. By placing someone on MR, we had to spend a lot of time reading continued insults and attacks, sometimes at us for taking action. This has taken too much time from the forums, so we are trying to step back from this and allow people time to think things over. I have personally had to take a few days off from the site and seek the Lord for a refreshing on the Fruit of the Spirit in my life and to ensure that the words I use come from Him and not my flesh. I suggest others consider doing the same before things come to a point where we have to move you in that direction.


I encourage all of use to learn to step back from our posts before we hit the “Post” button and read what we are about to submit as if we are reading it for the first time with no preconceived idea of what was written. This will help to ensure that what we are about to submit is what we really what to say. Nobody can read anyone’s mind, so clarity of thought is essential for correct understanding.


Here are a few closing verses to keep in mind when posting.


Colossians 4:5-6 (NKJV)


Walk in wisdom toward those who are outside, redeeming the time. Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.


John 13:34-35 (NKJV)


A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.


Galatians 5:16-26 (NKJV)

Walking in the Spirit


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.




Ephesians 6:10-20

The Whole Armor of God


Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints— and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
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#2110170 Gay Marriage and the Demise of America

Posted by Cobalt1959 on 25 May 2014 - 08:23 PM

 

Thanks for the interesting thought. That's a new perspective for me on the issue, and I'm surprised I haven't heard it before. Though I have been listening to some who have pointed out that marriage is a Godly activity and has been defined as MAN and WOMAN, and since that is a position they disagree with, why do they want to have that term connected to their relationship? The main reason to do so is to devalue what genuine marriage is, and that is why they don't want to settle for a new term, such as Civil Union, for the homosexual relationship.

 

 

 

There is another much more heartfelt desire that drives them to have gay marriage instituted.  They want their sin validated as being perfectly acceptable.  They feel that a state and/or federally accepted marriage will de-stigmatize the sin and turn it into a non-sin.


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