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  • Posts

    • Defense of the Post-Trib / Pre-Wrath Position
      By Diaste · Posted
      I'm not sure we can say for certain that different time frames run either successively, or concurrently. In this case there is nothing suggesting, from the vision itself, or the interpretation of the vision, that the 70th week and the 2300 days run concurrently. It's just as possible the 2300 days begins at the A of D and runs to some point in the millennial kingdom. I think the vision itself suggests just such a scenario. Since the two saints were speaking and the one asked the other about the vision concerning only the daily sacrifice, the transgression that makes desolate, and the desecration of the sanctuary and the host, it stands to reason that the 2300 days concerns only these events. The questioning saint didn't ask about any other events so it's logical to conclude the saint was asking only about the above 4 events and no other. So, it could  be that the 2300 days begins at the A of D, or the moment the daily sacrifice begins in the New Temple, but clearly not at the beginning of the 70th week, and then runs through the 2nd half of the week and into the Reign of Jesus. I just cannot see any suggestion from scripture that wrath extends for the full 7 years of the 70th week. In fact there is no hint, suggestion or implication from the above posted passage concerning 'wrath', 'seven years', or 'the 70th week', nor is there a hint, suggestion or implication that directs us to connect the 2300 days with 'wrath', 'seven years', or 'the 70th week'. The only connection that I see from the passage is that the 2300 days concerns the daily sacrifice, the transgression and the trampling of the sanctuary and host, and that the 2300 hundred days is counting down during the events of the end of the age.
    • Also, am considering a new used computer
      By JohnD · Posted
      People out there upgrade their computers etc. every time there's the slightest change or upgrade. I am a simple computer user with a tower computer and 120 gig 32 meg ram. Surely there is a place I can get a replacement that doesn't cost the US Mint to buy. Hear of any good second hand computer sites?
    • A different post-trib / pre-wrath interpretation
      By toknowthetruth · Posted
      Those are good points and certainly possibilities. I'm inclined to think that Matt 24:29-31 is one event, but that's just how I see it.
    • Need help
      By JohnD · Posted
      Windows Vista Media Player 11 went wonky several months back and I am determined that there is a solution and I am not about to pay microsoft to fix their flawed systems. I did contact a rep and she said there was a solution but that I was up to the stage of payment and I thanked her (it's not her fault) and that was that. She had me restore to an earlier date and even tried it herself (on my PC). Didn't solve it. I tried the Windows features turn on and off and no go (in fact it was no show wasn't even in the list). Uninstall and reboot did not work. If there is some genius out there please help this mediocre computer user to get my simple media player back.
    • The Lord Jesus Christ
      By firestormx · Posted
      ok, we will have to agree to disagree I guess. In everything I have ever read on this verse and with all my study it seems clear to me it is calling the son born unto us the mighty God, the everlasting father. Every translation I have ever read backs up my understanding of this verse. For you to say " I see the verse saying, “The mighty God is devising a miracle: My powerful, eternal Father [devising] a Winner of Peace." " Is to say every translation there is translates this verse wrong. I see no other possibility. For the son to be called the everlasting Father and the mighty God, either it's true or this verse is blaspheme .  I appreciate your response, but I must vehemently disagree with you on this subject and your understanding of this verse.  To deny Christ being God is to nullify the Crucifixion. I am at a complete loss of what else to say other than I will pray for you. If Jesus was/is not God then he wasn't/isn't worthy to die for our sin, the Crucifixion was in vain and we are all still in our sin. All of Christianity revolves around the deity of Christ . I will pray for you. I wish I knew what else to say. I feel so sorry for you. I will pray that your eyes are opened to the truth on this. God bless you Firestormx Joseph
    • How Do You Know You Have The Holy Spirit
      By JohnD · Posted
      Matthew 3:11 (AV) 11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Baptism of the Holy Spirit = salvation Baptism of fire = judgment 1 Corinthians 3:16 (AV) 16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
    • How Do You Know You Have The Holy Spirit
      By JohnD · Posted
      If you are referring to the feelings aspect of being Spirit filled, yes. I agree with you. But the OP was referring to the baptism of the Holy Spirit and that is what happened when we believed in Jesus. And this baptism is from the inside.  
    • How Do You Know You Have The Holy Spirit
      By JohnD · Posted
      Oh you were talking to other one... I thought you were going to break into a Robert Planet medley... 
    • Isn't there something wrong with mankind?
      By JohnD · Posted
      Sure if your point includes organizations run by mere men (like RCC or PR denominations).
    • Defense of the Post-Trib / Pre-Wrath Position
      By Diaste · Posted
      Hi, Love this discussion and I just have to chime in. The pre-wrath thing is something I have studied out over the decades since I first became acquainted with the return of Jesus and the gathering of the elect. At first I read every book I could find on the subject, all were pre-trib. That position always left me unsettled, as if I was somehow in the right crowd, in the know as it were, but still incomplete and searching. So much of the pre-trib position comes from the bias of certain ideas that have been rationalized into existence. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing pre-trib, though there is much there to bash, this is just an introduction by way of a little history. In any case I stumbled across a book by M. Rosenthal that helped me to search in a different way, and the eyes of my heart were opened! In all the study i did over the years the only 'rapture' that makes sense, from all the verses related to such an event, is the one we like to call pre-wrath. Some seem to think it's also a post trib event but I think the trib continues until the 70 weeks is complete, though the tribulation of the saints is over at the coming of Jesus, or pre Wrath of God, probably why this rapture is called post-trib by some. The objection I have to the above Wiki quote has to do with this statement:  states that Christians will be raptured at the end of a time called the Beginning of Sorrows that occurs in the first half of the seventieth week of the Prophecy of Seventy Weeks, and before the day of the Lord's wrath Pre-wrath actually states that believers are gathered at the end of 'great tribulation' and before the wrath of God falls, and this on the same day, likely moments before the Wrath of God begins at the Day of the Lord. "Great tribulation" begins at the middle of the 70th week when the beginning of sorrows ends. Believers endure 'great tribulation' for a period of less than 3.5 years until the Lord returns to gather us up and fight against the rebellious armies of the world. Looking forward to a fruitful discussion!
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