I know that God does know what we will choose & what we will not,,,,,,,,,,,so I am not so sure about how much of our "free will" counts for much? I think we are chosen,we are called out from the beginning of time...........it is all just a matter of time,,,,,lol,Praise the Lord!
With love-in Christ,Kwik
I am not against the preaching of Jesus at all. The problem is that you have no shown that the preaching of Jesus has anything to do with self-defense. The one creating imaginary pretexts is you, not me. You are against people owning guns, so you try to mold the Bible around what you want to believe, rather than letting the Bible speak for itself. You are trying to force the Bible into agreement with you about something the Bible never actually speaks of.
Would you allow your family to die at the hands of a murderer? Who do you love more? Your family or the murderer?
Yes, you are. You have tried to defend bad behavior on the part of the husband by arguing first of all, that “abuse” should only be limited to a man beating or otherwise physically harming his wife. Embarrassing her in public, shouting at her, putting her down, calling her derogatory names, forcing her to have sex against her will, according to you does not constitute abuse. Secondly, you have argued on the grounds of absolute authority, that he can be as much of an overbearing jerk as he wants, as long as he doesn’t tell her to sin and that this is completely biblical.
But now that we see that you can’t really defend much of that argument, you want to separate the authority of the husband from the behavior of the husband and that argument isn’t going to fly. The Bible nowhere sanctions the notion that the husband as a blank check to behave like a jerk on the basis of his authority.
Yes, but I was talking about the Christian husband who thinks, he has biblical permission to be a jerk and is a failure of a husband and is therefore, living in rebellion against God. The irony here is that for all your canards about “rebellion” you fail to see that the man who treats his wife poorly and is an overbearing jerk is in a state of rebellion against God because he is abusing the authority God gave him to force his wife to serve him as if the marriage is more like a slave/master relationship.
No, you did not show that through the word rule and you never used definition AND usage. You have consistently, over and over limited your idea about the word “rule” to mean that the husband can be as much of a dictator as he wants. You have a shallow, and one-dimensional approach to that word to only refer to an iron-fisted dictatorial rule, as if to say the husband is the king, and wife is the subservient vassal to do is bidding, no questions asked. And it is also false to say that you have not said how he should rule. You have quoted Scripture in an attempt to show that relationship, in your view, is more like slave/master or servant/king relationship and not a relationship of equals, made in the image of God.
I get that, but the Bible doesn’t say that, anywhere. YOU derive that from a shallow interpretation of Scripture and you penciling that view into the Bible by trying to mold the Bible around your beliefs, rather than letting the Bible inform your beliefs.
Again, the Bible doesn’t leave it to a husband how he uses his authority. It is not arbitrary. Obviously, we disagree over what constitutes, “mistreatment.”
No, that isn’t the argument I am making or have been making. I never said the husband’s authority was not absolute. There is no such thing as “non-absolute” authority. That would be a contradiction in terms and in logic. All authority is absolute, otherwise it is not authority. If someone as authority, the qualifying term “absolute” is unnecessary. The problem is that you are confusing “absolute” with “unconditional.” The way you are using “absolute” is really to say that the husband as unconditional, unquestionable authority and he can use it has he pleases, and that is not to be found in the Bible. A husband has absolute authority within the conditions and parameters given in Scripture. He does not have a blank check from God use his authority as he pleases. A husband who is emotionally abusive toward his wife is actually worse than a wife beater because the physical wounds of abuse will heal in a few weeks. But the wounds of emotional abuse often never heal and they last for the rest of her life. Too many men have abuse their authority on the grounds that they are “kings” of their homes and their wives are their subjects to serve them and do their bidding and they recognize no moral restrictions on how they treat their wives mentally and emotionally.
My argument has never been against a wife’s obligation to be obedient in her wifely duties to her husband. I have been endeavoring to show that men who abuse their authority are just as much in rebellion as a disobedient wife. You seem to want to avoid that reality. My point is that the rebellion issue is not a one-way street where if the woman doesn’t fulfill her wifely duties to her husband, she is in rebellion, but a man who fails to be a godly husband is given a pass in the area of rebellion.
My position is that the tyrannical husband is both a sinner and is in rebellion and I was only addressing the believing husband. I am addressing marriage between believers. This debate is not about a marriage of believers and unbelievers. I am specifically limiting my comments to refer to Christian husbands and the fact that if they are overbearing jerks, they are in rebellion against God and are sinning against both God and their wives. I am saying that her obedience needs to be a witness to her “Christian” husband of what it means to follow the Lord because he is in rebellion against God and is out of step with the biblical prescription of what it means to be a godly husband.
Well there are two things here… You won’t get the men of the church to side with you since they will be the ones voting you out of fellowship and because their wives will side with the wife they feel is abused, and these men will side with their wives, who will also be voting.
Secondly, pastors network. They know all of the other pastors in the area. They go out to lunch together, they go to pastors’ conferences together, and they know each other very, very well. So yeah, they can warn everyone in their sphere of influence. It doesn’t matter if you are talking about small towns or big cities and no one wants people in their church that are potential trouble makers.
Actually, when it comes to abusive relationships, not only should a pastor step in and intervene on moral grounds, but on legal grounds, in most states, the pastor is legally required to report abuse, particularly in families that have children. Most states have reporting laws that require the pastors to report familial abuse and there are legal penalties for pastors who don’t ,up to and including jail time and serious fines.
And in this kind of case, you would fail.
I am talking about emotional and mental abuse where it is clear that the husband is abusive in his public and private treatment of his wife. You can easier hide the evidence of physical abuse than you can emotional abuse and you will not have time to wage a war on a pastor because you will to be busy dealing with the legal battles that you will be handling when the state decides to take over. You would never split a church over anything like this. Instances of abuse serve to unite the church against the abuser.
Welcome to Worthy,,,,,,,,
No worries,when something goes bonky or whatever happens that needs be addressed here for repair ,unless it is something that is planned in advance then none of us are notified,it just gets fixed,,,,,,,,,,,,the last time we had a "planned" overhaul to make some changes we were all notified in an announcement made by George ,in a thread addressed to all of us,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,So don't feel slighted,be glad that when something needs fixin' it gets fixed! Be sure to look for announcements concerning our site,,,,,,,,George usually tries his best to keep us all up to speed when it is at all possible Praise & Glory to God! With love-in Christ,Kwik