Jump to content

christian forums

Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Forums

Welcome to Worthy Christian Forums
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Rights Being Taken Away


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
35 replies to this topic

#1
Butero

Butero

    Royal Member

  • Soapbox - Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,715 posts
When we think of America, most think of freedom. When compared to many nations, we are a free country, but I wonder how many have noticed our rights being taken away incrementally? It starts with little things, and the intrusion on our liberties grow larger. I am going to mention examples I know of personally, and I welcome anyone else to add to this list.

1. The right to decide about our children's education. What gives the government the right to mandate that parents have to send their children to school? Why shouldn't farmers for instance, who have children, be able to raise their kids up to be the future farmers, instead of sending them to school?

2. The right of an employer to pay an employee what he feels is a fair wage based on the market. Why should someone be forced to pay a wage they cannot afford because the government decides on a minimum wage?

3. The right of an employer to hire who they want with their own money. What gives the government the right to force someone to hire people they don't wish to, based on anti-descrimination legislation? I can see that with regard to government institutions, but not private businesses.

4. The right of a church to take political positions. Why should a church be forced to pay taxes just because they want to exercise their right to free speech? Political speech and Christian doctrine sometimes go hand in hand, when it comes to preaching about good and evil.

5. The right of motorists to decide if they wish to wear a seat belt, or those who ride motorcycles to wear a helmet. How about the right of parents to decide whether to use infant safety seats, where the requirements keep going up to an unreasonable level.

6. The right to use your property as you see fit. Why should the government be able to use zoning laws to prevent you from doing what you want with your own property?

7. The right to decide if a restaurant or private business wishes to allow smoking. I can understand this when it comes to government buildings, but not private businesses like restaurants.

8. The right of the automobile industry to decide for themselves what kind of automobiles to make. The government has no business setting cafe standards, and should not be creating unreasonable environmental standards that prevent the sale of high mileage diesel powered cars that are currently being sold overseas.

9. The right of individuals to own weapons. While the government has not completely stripped us of our right to bear arms, they have taken things to an unconstitutional level, and are trying to move further in this direction.

10. The right of individuals to drill for oil, without having the government tell them they cannot because of stupid environmentalists. The government has been putting this nation at risk by making us dependent on foreign oil, when we have a large supply under our feet.

We have been gradually allowing the government to take away our freedoms, without considering that once they have taken away one thing, they will move to strip you of other rights. As I said, I would welcome any other examples where the government has been taking away the rights of citizens. I know that it was not that long ago the liberal judges on the Supreme Court ruled the government can take your house and tear it down to build something that will bring the city more tax revenue. This is clearly an abuse, and completely unconstitutional.

I think it is time that we put liberals on the defensive, and start trying to repeal the laws already on the books that are stripping us of our rights. It seems that when they take one piece of ground, they move on to the next, figuring nobody can ever do anything about it anymore. We need to start forcing them to defend what they already have, so they don't have as much time and resources to push for more laws.

#2
OneLight

OneLight

    Royal Member

  • Servant
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,804 posts
So true. I have noticed, but never sat down and thought about it. I guess I am a frog being boiled and didn't give it much thought.

If you take a frog and put it in boiling water, it will immediately jump out (taking all of our right away at once), but if you place a frog in cold water, turn the heat on and gradually bring it to a boil, the frog will remain and you will have cooked from (taking our rights away incrementally).

#3
MorningGlory

MorningGlory

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,410 posts

I only left in what I don't agree with and added my own at the bottom. (Oh, come on, you know I have to disagree.)



1. The right to decide about our children's education. What gives the government the right to mandate that parents have to send their children to school? Why shouldn't farmers for instance, who have children, be able to raise their kids up to be the future farmers, instead of sending them to school?


Yep, that's what we need....more illiterate people.

2. The right of an employer to pay an employee what he feels is a fair wage based on the market. Why should someone be forced to pay a wage they cannot afford because the government decides on a minimum wage?


Oh, I don't know....maybe because employers would only hire illegals who will work for $5.00 an hour?


4. The right of a church to take political positions. Why should a church be forced to pay taxes just because they want to exercise their right to free speech? Political speech and Christian doctrine sometimes go hand in hand, when it comes to preaching about good and evil.


The Lord's house is not the place for endorsing political candidates.

5. The right of motorists to decide if they wish to wear a seat belt, or those who ride motorcycles to wear a helmet. How about the right of parents to decide whether to use infant safety seats, where the requirements keep going up to an unreasonable level.


Maybe because it saves countless lives? Btw, in Texas a motorcyclist does have the right to decide to wear a helmet or not.

6. The right to use your property as you see fit. Why should the government be able to use zoning laws to prevent you from doing what you want with your own property?


Maybe because some neighbors will let their property become junkyards or trash heaps otherwise? Or they might decide to open a topless bar next door to you?


8. The right of the automobile industry to decide for themselves what kind of automobiles to make. The government has no business setting cafe standards, and should not be creating unreasonable environmental standards that prevent the sale of high mileage diesel powered cars that are currently being sold overseas.


Would you like to still be getting 8 miles per gallon?

10. The right of individuals to drill for oil, without having the government tell them they cannot because of stupid environmentalists. The government has been putting this nation at risk by making us dependent on foreign oil, when we have a large supply under our feet.


Truthfully, you can't just have anybody and everybody drilling everywhere; that just wouldn't work. But I think government needs to get out of the way of the proven winners like Shell, Exxon, etc. and let them drill.

I think it is time that we put liberals on the defensive, and start trying to repeal the laws already on the books that are stripping us of our rights.


Why do you believe that only 'liberals' want to strip away rights? I believe it's the entire government who is doing this.

And, my absolute pet peeve...the government forces us to carry automobile insurance, which penalizes the poor, whether we want to or not. (I believe these are state laws but it's still government.) These laws have also led to lawsuit abuse.



#4
Butero

Butero

    Royal Member

  • Soapbox - Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,715 posts

I only left in what I don't agree with and added my own at the bottom. (Oh, come on, you know I have to disagree.)

:laugh: I have come to expect that. I would go through and dissagree with your dissagreements one by one, but that is not the point. I am just trying to show how our rights are being taken away gradually. I hadn't thought about it, but you are right about automobile insurance. We can add that to the list. :blink:

#5
refugepsa91

refugepsa91

    Royal Member

  • Servant
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,525 posts
From Butero:

1. The right to decide about our children's education. What gives the government the right to mandate that parents have to send their children to school? Why shouldn't farmers for instance, who have children, be able to raise their kids up to be the future farmers, instead of sending them to school?


From MorningGlory:

Yep, that's what we need....more illiterate people.


:laugh:

Ummmm I live in a farming community, orchards, beef, dairy, fields of corn/wheat etc....some of the smartest people I know are farmers. Thats right, no PhD, but when they talk you listen. I know 1 right off the top of my head that was homeschooled and now runs the family dairy farm. He is far from illiterate. The best way to learn the business is too be IN it, learn it from the ground up with actual hands on training, a book is nothing compared to living it. (I'm talking about farmers here)

Helping on some my families farms shaped me into what I am today. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, teaches you respect, honor, patience, responsibility, gritty determination and common sense skills as working a farm does....I've been bit, kicked, stepped on and lipped by every animal I've fed (ungrateful wretch's sometimes)

Sooo, in closing, I'm just making sure that your statement meant that IF the parents didn't "teach" them to read and write they would be illiterate, NOT by profession.... :laugh: Afterall even public school, some children come out with a 6th grade reading/writing level or lower....sad isn't it?

#6
Gerioke

Gerioke

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,373 posts
I don't see how it's just a liberal thing. The Bush admin. reduced a whack of rights in the name of national security. Our Conservative government, both at a provincial and national level have been slowly stripping us of our rights in the interests of these so called special interest groups. It seems to me that whatever government is in power at the time cowers to the organized groups for fear of loosing a vote.

#7
shiloh357

shiloh357

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 31,008 posts

And, my absolute pet peeve...the government forces us to carry automobile insurance, which penalizes the poor, whether we want to or not.

If you drive you SHOULD be insured. It is to yours and others benefit. I would rather pay $70 a month for decent coverage (depending on your vehicle and driving record) than to go without it. Whatever premium you pay, it is better than paying out-of-pocket if you have an accident and you end up being liable for it.

I work for an insurance company and people who either drive with no insurance or only the state minimums take a huge gamble and I see what happens when they lose. I am constantly send out letters to people who took a chance and drove either uninsured or underinsured and are now liable for upwards of at least $150,000 or more in bodily injury costs and even more in property damage. Left to their own, people will find plenty of things to spend money on. They will make a way to pay for what is really important. Insurance is a really big necessity and can save a person from a lot of financial problems in the future.

#8
kat8585

kat8585

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,433 posts
I agree. I'm not carazy about having to have it, but it is a necessity.

#9
shiloh357

shiloh357

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 31,008 posts

2. The right of an employer to pay an employee what he feels is a fair wage based on the market. Why should someone be forced to pay a wage they cannot afford because the government decides on a minimum wage?

So if your employer were to decide that your job is only really worth $12,000 a year, you would be okay with that?

#10
MorningGlory

MorningGlory

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,410 posts

Sooo, in closing, I'm just making sure that your statement meant that IF the parents didn't "teach" them to read and write they would be illiterate, NOT by profession.... :thumbsup: Afterall even public school, some children come out with a 6th grade reading/writing level or lower....sad isn't it?



My point was in response to Butero's question as to why the government should be able to mandate our children being sent to school and, yes, homeschooling is school but it must be conducted by parents who can follow a curriculum and are literate themselves. There are parents who wouldn't educate their children at all though but instead, have them working on the farm or in a family business. This is no swipe at farmer's, my own grandfather was a successful farmer, I'm defending the government's right to make sure our citizen's are educated. Imagine a child, never having any form of education, then the family farm goes under and he/she is out in the world trying to make a living. I will agree that simply attending public school doesn't assure a good basic education though. I actually know people who have graduated high school that can't read a newspaper well enough to know what's going on in the world or write well enough to compose an e-mail.

#11
MorningGlory

MorningGlory

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,410 posts

And, my absolute pet peeve...the government forces us to carry automobile insurance, which penalizes the poor, whether we want to or not. (I believe these are state laws but it's still government.) These laws have also led to lawsuit abuse.


how does this penalizes the poor? I have no issue with automobile insurance being required.

If someone runs into my car I want to be sure they can pay to get it fixed.

you think these laws have led to lawsuit abuse imagine the suits if people didnt have insurace and were losing their houses and such to pay for an accident. Required liability insurance protects everyone


The mandatory insurance laws penalize the poor by forcing them to buy insurance; if they don't, they are law breakers. (And if they don't have good credit the insurance companies charge them higher rates.) Since everyone has to have insurance it's become commonplace for people to sue; after all it's just a corporation being sued not an individual. (The 'ambulance chasers' really came into their own after these laws were passed.) This has led to higher rates also. Then, if someone hits you who doesn't have insurance (or is underinsured) YOU have to pay for it through your insurance company. There IS a measure of protection for the consumer but the big winners are the insurance companies.

#12
MorningGlory

MorningGlory

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,410 posts
I would be remiss if I didn't add the banking laws, approved by the Federal government, that allows credit card issuers to raise your interest rate if you are late on a bill owed to someone else. For instance, you have a 7% rate on a MasterCard. You lose your job and are late on your Visa bill. MasterCard can then raise your rate up to as high as 30% even though you have always paid your bill on time to them. This allows them to squeeze more out of you even though you have not defaulted on your contract with them. I understand there's a bill in Congress to prohibit this predatory practice and it WILL pass. But the fact that the Feds allowed this for years just steams me. And yet, the banks are going belly up? A lot of people don't even realize this; I found out about it a couple of years ago on some website and resolved to never let them get me...no matter what. It pays to read that fine print.

#13
kat8585

kat8585

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,433 posts

The mandatory insurance laws penalize the poor by forcing them to buy insurance; if they don't, they are law breakers. (And if they don't have good credit the insurance companies charge them higher rates.) Since everyone has to have insurance it's become commonplace for people to sue; after all it's just a corporation being sued not an individual. (The 'ambulance chasers' really came into their own after these laws were passed.) This has led to higher rates also. Then, if someone hits you who doesn't have insurance (or is underinsured) YOU have to pay for it through your insurance company. There IS a measure of protection for the consumer but the big winners are the insurance companies.

This is all true, but what would be an alternative? What if a poor person causes an accident costing hundreds of thousands of dollars? Who would pay for it?

#14
kat8585

kat8585

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,433 posts

I would be remiss if I didn't add the banking laws, approved by the Federal government, that allows credit card issuers to raise your interest rate if you are late on a bill owed to someone else. For instance, you have a 7% rate on a MasterCard. You lose your job and are late on your Visa bill. MasterCard can then raise your rate up to as high as 30% even though you have always paid your bill on time to them. This allows them to squeeze more out of you even though you have not defaulted on your contract with them. I understand there's a bill in Congress to prohibit this predatory practice and it WILL pass. But the fact that the Feds allowed this for years just steams me. And yet, the banks are going belly up? A lot of people don't even realize this; I found out about it a couple of years ago on some website and resolved to never let them get me...no matter what. It pays to read that fine print.

The credit card companies are a bunch of scam and rip off artists. They deserve it when people can't pay them, like what happened to me. They got so blatantly bad I simply couldn't pay them. I wrote letters trying to get them to work with me, and they wouldn't. Then my financial circumstances drastically changed anyway when I became disabled.

#15
MorningGlory

MorningGlory

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,410 posts

I would be remiss if I didn't add the banking laws, approved by the Federal government, that allows credit card issuers to raise your interest rate if you are late on a bill owed to someone else. For instance, you have a 7% rate on a MasterCard. You lose your job and are late on your Visa bill. MasterCard can then raise your rate up to as high as 30% even though you have always paid your bill on time to them. This allows them to squeeze more out of you even though you have not defaulted on your contract with them. I understand there's a bill in Congress to prohibit this predatory practice and it WILL pass. But the fact that the Feds allowed this for years just steams me. And yet, the banks are going belly up? A lot of people don't even realize this; I found out about it a couple of years ago on some website and resolved to never let them get me...no matter what. It pays to read that fine print.

The credit card companies are a bunch of scam and rip off artists. They deserve it when people can't pay them, like what happened to me. They got so blatantly bad I simply couldn't pay them. I wrote letters trying to get them to work with me, and they wouldn't. Then my financial circumstances drastically changed anyway when I became disabled.



It happened to a member of my family too; a job loss and huge medical bills for his son forced him to choose between feeding the kids or paying the credit card bills. He contacted his credit card providers and tried to work out payment arrangements. They told him flatly 'no'; they wanted their money and said he would have to be at least three months behind before they would talk to him. I believe this is so they can sell the debt to other companies and collect fees; the companies that buy the debt can follow you for years. This is part of the 'toxic debt' problem our banking system is experiencing, IMO, and yeah, they deserve it. Unfortunately, it hurts us all. He did learn one important thing though; if you're contacted by a secondary debt collector....don't talk to them or acknowledge anything. Hang up (they are recording you when they call) or ignore the letters. This advice came from a friend of his who works in the banking industry.

#16
MorningGlory

MorningGlory

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,410 posts

This is all true, but what would be an alternative? What if a poor person causes an accident costing hundreds of thousands of dollars? Who would pay for it?



The person suffering the damages would pay. We all have that 'uninsured/underinsured motorist' on our policies anyway so, if the one causing the damages to you can't pay...you do. The insurance companies are covered either way.

#17
kat8585

kat8585

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,433 posts

He did learn one important thing though; if you're contacted by a secondary debt collector....don't talk to them or acknowledge anything. Hang up (they are recording you when they call) or ignore the letters. This advice came from a friend of his who works in the banking industry.

I've had these continually. I ignore them. They can't get blood out of a turnip. I figure I paid them many times over when they were ripping me off so bad.

#18
MorningGlory

MorningGlory

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,410 posts

He did learn one important thing though; if you're contacted by a secondary debt collector....don't talk to them or acknowledge anything. Hang up (they are recording you when they call) or ignore the letters. This advice came from a friend of his who works in the banking industry.

I've had these continually. I ignore them. They can't get blood out of a turnip. I figure I paid them many times over when they were ripping me off so bad.


If you can't pay them then you're doing the best thing by ignoring them, kat. There are no debtor prisons in the U.S. and the worst they can do is put it on your credit file. And even that falls off after seven years. The banking industry has become increasingly predatory and, while the borrowing public shares some of the blame, they are the biggest part of the economic problems we face right now. I am happy to see Congress finally addressing this issue with the credit card providers.

#19
Gerioke

Gerioke

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,373 posts

I don't see how it's just a liberal thing. The Bush admin. reduced a whack of rights in the name of national security. Our Conservative government, both at a provincial and national level have been slowly stripping us of our rights in the interests of these so called special interest groups. It seems to me that whatever government is in power at the time cowers to the organized groups for fear of loosing a vote.


dont you know...

liberal = bad

Conservative = good.

remember that and you will get along very well on this board


Politically minded people are in danger of compromising their faith.

#20
MorningGlory

MorningGlory

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,410 posts

I don't see how it's just a liberal thing. The Bush admin. reduced a whack of rights in the name of national security. Our Conservative government, both at a provincial and national level have been slowly stripping us of our rights in the interests of these so called special interest groups. It seems to me that whatever government is in power at the time cowers to the organized groups for fear of loosing a vote.


dont you know...

liberal = bad

Conservative = good.

remember that and you will get along very well on this board


Politically minded people are in danger of compromising their faith.



:vader:




Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Message Boards - 1999-2014 part of the Worthy Network