You still confuse the text in Zech 14 as it explicitly is speaking of the landscape of Jerusalem on earth that is attacked NOT a heavenly Jerusalem , this is another area where the preterist views fails , take a look at what is happening in the world today and notice that events today are in perfect alignment with multiple prophecies , it is impossible for men to attack heaven , it is impossible for heaven to have any plagues of any kind
THAT DAY is speaking of the day that Jesus returns to earth and scripture makes it clear that THAT DAY will be unique and describes the weather conditions in detail,,but as usual you fail to accept the scripture is literal -Danielzk
You are trying to make things that were prophesied for 1st century Israel fit into today's Israel and today's headlines. I think you do damage to the text of Scripture when you ignore God's timetable. I'll have more to say on this Israel of today in another post, if I remember. There are lots of things going on in my life at present that are causing me to be very absent minded at times - my wife is on oxygen and in poor health, losing my job, figuring out finances, thinking about what I will do next, waiting for the final two month announcement of my current employer.
Again, you are not comprehending what I have said. Zechariah presents a tale of two cities, two Jerusalem's, the earthly in which judgment/punishment from God is decreed per the old covenant, contrasted with the heavenly Jerusalem in which peace and salvation with God are the theme. The one city is an earthly physical city, the other is a heavenly, spiritual city. One is representative of the old covenant of the fleshly earthly Israel, the other of the new covenant of the new spiritual Israel and Jerusalem of God. The heavenly is victorious over the earthly, for the earthly city of this OT people is destroyed, whereas the heavenly city is everlasting (of which, BTW, cannot be the city or Israel that exists today, IMO). This theme of types and shadows is contrasted throughout the OT and explained in the new. Prophecy is looking down the corridor of time, much of the time to the time of Messiah in which all prophecy seems to point.
I might add too that Paul and other authors, inspired by the Spirit, taught the same thing, a heavenly and earthly Jerusalem, the new and the old nature, the natural and the spiritual, the old and new covenant.
You did not answer my question concerning 'on that day.' Does it represent the same day or two different days?
The problem with your interpretation is that you pick and choose which verses of a chapter and remove some and replace them with unrelated verses to cause it to read as you desire it to completely ignoring what is really written
16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.
17 If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain.
So you tell us that this is not literal ! NO RAIN for those nations that don't go up! -Danielzk
I believe it appears to be conveying spiritual truths, IMO. Often in the OT, as well as in Revelation and other places in the NT hyperbola, imagery, symbolism, figures of speech, exaggeration is used to express an idea or concept. The concept of no rain speaks again of judgment, the consequences of disobedience. The King, the Lord Almighty as Jesus expressed in John 4:24 is Someone who we worship in spirit and in truth. Jesus said that the time is coming and has now come
for this type of worship to happen, and He said it while He was on earth in the 1st century. When Jesus ascended to the Father He was given the kingdom of David, a kingdom that is without end. At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God. What does that expression - Jesus is Lord - mean to you?
Since this happens year after year it means continually that nations that have attacked Jerusalem will worship the Lord Almighty ,,the Lord Almighty of the Holy Bible NOT some other religion!
Since you think this Zech chapter has already happened these nations would be doing this year after year so be exact specific in which are the nations that have attacked Jerusalem that year after year worship the Almighty God of the Holy Bible? -Danielzk
I'm speculating, just like you are, but I believe this refers to those comprising the Roman army, who came from all the known countries of the earth, at least those relevant to what comprised the fourth kingdom. Luke 2:1 expresses the same concept concerning a census that should be taken of the entire Roman world
. Since the gospel went out/was preached to the entire world of that time, many of the survivors could have come to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. They were still living on earth, like we live on earth today and worship Jesus spiritually. Another word for earth is land. It is possible that they were in the heavenly country. I don't know as of yet.
Zech 1418 If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain.
The Lord will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.
If Egypt refuses to partake in Festival of Tabernacles they get NO RAIN ,,!! -Danielzk
Again, if you consider that Egypt refers to sin and bondage, its a plea to come out of her or be punished. The Feast of Tabernacles is a call to go up to Jerusalem. On that day is a call to come to the New Heavenly Jerusalem, the heavenly city, or, as I have said before, to worship God in spirit and in truth. The kingdom of God is a heavenly kingdom, not an earthly one. The earthly Jerusalem is judged and destroyed which leaves only the heavenly Jerusalem to my mind.
You continue to AVOID what scripture tells us ! -Danielzk
Not so. I'm starting to sound like a broken record when I ask you to explain 'on that day.' Do you know how many times it is used in Zechariah? As I have pointed out to you, Zechariah 12:10 taking place 'on that day' refers to the time in which the the people who pierced Him will look on Him and mourn for Him as one mourns for an only child. How do I know? Because Scripture tells me so! John 19:36-37
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”[a] 37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.
Even though the Roman soldier pierced His side it was attributed to the Jews. They were instrumental and held responsible for His death. Acts 2:36
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
It is obvious from the text of Zechariah 12 that this is the tribes of Israel who who pierced Him, in that they were responsible for His death, they were the ones who said 'Crucify Him.' So this all took place in the first century. The Scripture was fulfilled.
Again, in Zechariah 13:7, another passage in which 'on that day' is used three times we see the prophecy fulfilled in the first century. Zechariah 13:7
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984) The Shepherd Struck, the Sheep Scattered7 “Awake, O sword, against my shepherd,
against the man who is close to me!”
declares the Lord Almighty.
“Strike the shepherd,
and the sheep will be scattered,
and I will turn my hand against the little ones.
Again we see the fulfillment in 1st century Israel: Matthew 26:31
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984) Jesus Predicts Peter’s Denial31 Then Jesus told them, “This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written:“‘I will strike the shepherd,
and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’[a]Footnotes:
On that very night that prophecy was fulfilled. Mark 14:27
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984) Jesus Predicts Peter’s Denial27 “You will all fall away,” Jesus told them, “for it is written:“‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.’[a]Footnotes:
Peter fell away that very night and we see the other hiding in Jerusalem, afraid for their lives.
So here we go again: What does 'on that day' mean?
I'm taking the time to answer your questions. When are you going to answer mine?
8 6 The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling together;
and a little child will lead them.
7 The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8 The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.
9 They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,
This represents what life on earth will be like when Jesus returns ,,,literal -Danielzk
Does it? I suppose it does according to how you divide Isaiah 11 up. Paul again makes reference to that chapter in Romans 15:12 Romans 15:12
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)12 And again, Isaiah says,“The Root of Jesse will spring up,
one who will arise to rule over the nations;the Gentiles will hope in him.”[a]Footnotes:
Are you saying that this prophecy was not meant as a fulfillment when Paul noted it? Here is the argument, according to Don K. Preston in Like Father, Like Son On Clouds of Glory
, p. 241, that the day of the wolf and the lamb lying down together (and the otther metaphors - me) is the same day as the day in which "the banner of the Messiah would be raised so that the Gentiles would be saved." Paul was in the habit of going into the synagogues in every town he entered that had a synagogue, but because his own people were hard of heart he turned to the Gentiles and became a minister to them.
Every thing that does not agree with your preterist view is considered to be not literal.......you don't see how that is suspect ? -Danielzk
I'm interested in what Scripture actually teaches, not what the popular opinion of the day dictates. Preterism is not the popular opinion of the day, yet it so far has answered consistently many of the questions that did not seem to fit before. There are many questions that I do not yet understand, but I'm listening for the answers in the word of God.
There are many scriptures that you totally disregard and misinterpret
Preterist view is totally invalid. -Danielzk
I believe you are wrong and you have not convinced me otherwise.
I continue to show you scripture that refutes what you teach but it does not get through to you because of your preference that is not in alignment with scripture -Danielzk
Not yet you haven't. You have shown me Scripture that is hard to interpret since we are 21 centuries removed from the time Jesus came to earth, but I believe that it is God's purpose for us to work out or salvation with fear and trembling, just as the early believers did. It is only when you have to defend a view that you begin to understand how sound it is. Criticism is a hard teacher that reveals much, no matter how unpleasant it seems at the time. Paul praised the Bereans for being more noble than the Thessalonians because they actually examined his message every day with great eagerness to see how it linied up and conformed to the Scriptures. The only Scriptures they had, to my knowledge, were the OT Scriptures, and Paul preached out of the OT Scriptures where ever he went, reasoning with and show those who doubted that Jesus was the promised Messiah.
Even in the most basic elementary entry level text of
2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations
These verses mean literally what they say ,,but since they are diametrically opposed to the preterist view ,,you totally disregard what the LORD says , to believe some false doctrine of deceived men -Danielzk
I've already explained what I believe about the 1000 year reign of Christ.
If I have understood you correctly you seem to demand that all prophecies of Jesus be fulfilled literally. It was a Roman soldier who pierced Jesus, but Scripture reveals that 'they will look on the One they have pierced' which points not to this literal Roman soldier, but to Israel. Do you honestly believe that every Scripture is fulfilled literally?
How many times are we told in the NT that Jesus came to fulfill all that was written about Him? Over and over OT Scriptures are shown to be fulfilled in Him. There are many, many references in the Gospel of Matthew alone. The epistles continue to reveal the same theme, the fulfillment of what has been written. Romans 16:20
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.
What does 'soon' mean to you? Colossians 2:15
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[a]Footnotes:
What powers and authorities is he referring to? Luke 10:18-19
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. 1 Corinthians 7:29-31
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)29 What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; 30 those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away. Luke 21:22
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. Luke 24:27
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. Acts 2:16-17
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
This prophecy again fulfilled at the time of that generation that Jesus came to. Acts 3:24
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)24 “Indeed, all the prophets from Samuel on, as many as have spoken, have foretold these days. 1 Corinthians 10:11
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. Galatians 4:4-5
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5 to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. Hebrews 1:2
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. Hebrews 10:37
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)37 For in just a very little while,“He who is coming will come and will not delay. James 5:8
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)8 You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord’s coming is near. 1 Peter 4:7
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)7 The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear minded and self-controlled so that you can pray. 1 Peter 4:17
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 John 2:18
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984) Warning Against Antichrists18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. Jude 1:17-19
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984) A Call to Persevere17 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. Revelation 1:1-3
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984) Prologue1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near. Revelation 3:10-11
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. Revelation 22:7
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984) Jesus Is Coming7 “Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book.”
I'm interested how you apply all these verse, when taken in context, to anything other than the 1st century without reading into the text something it does not say.