Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

Is Money evil?

159 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

I don't believe having money is evil, but money having you can be a stumbling block.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

There is a solution to the problem of evil money, send your excess to me, I will see that it is properly disposed of.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I'm sorry enoob, I don't understand the question?

In the above statement Our Lord teaches us that within riches lie deceit... then anyone with

riches also has deceit-> for that is with them by fulfillment of God's Word! As seen the man that

came to Him and said:

Mk 10:18-21

18 So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.

19 You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,'

'Do not bear false witness,' 'Do not defraud,' 'Honor your father and your mother.'"

20 And he answered and said to Him, "Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth."

21 Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "One thing you lack: Go your way,

sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come,

take up the cross, and follow Me."

NKJV

Here The Lord loved him because the indication is the man was trying to obey Christ Word!

YET the deceitfulness within riches is seen: He had labored and worked and sacrificed to have

them and when offered eternal non-ending wealth for trade of his earthly gain he declined...

That is why the Lord warns us to beware when we think we stand lest we fall... it is why in

humility I prefer to give my gain away so I am not deceived and my heart is upon His Promises

rather than the things of this life! Love, Steven

Steven, my brother, this type of thinking, Is why I started this thread and I disagree with you, from what I have read in the word. Lets start with a list of wealthy Biblical Hero's who were not stumbled by their wealth.

Abraham

Isaac

Jacob

Joseph

Job

David

Joseph of Arimathea, (who paid for Jesus' burial)

And last but not least, the good Samaritan, who while apparently not a real person but an example given by Jesus, is wealthy enough to pay for every need the poor beaten man needed.

As for the rich young ruler, well his wealth was only a part of his issues, and I suggest you read "The Cost of Discipleship" by Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who elaborates the story much better than I can. Remember that the wealth owned him, not the other way around.

So yes, riches can be a trap, and we must guard our heart with all diligence as the word says, however riches in and of themselves are not evil or bad.

Now I am going to propose one thing that will perhaps shock. I believe that not enough christians are wealthy The wealthy have power on this earth to cause great good and great evil, so why should christians who, by definition should be Christ like, and good, be poor, or just making it bye while letting evil people have all the resources to do evil?

The trick is to remember this very important thing. We do not own anything. God does. He gives us our life and many good things, and he wants the best for us. If we are responsible, with money that he gives us, he may give us more, But it is money to manage, not to own ourselves, See the example of the parable of the talents in Matthew 25. The servants were given wealth to manage for the Lord, and when they managed well they were given more to manage.

I believe we are servants of the Lord, and I believe that many of us do not manage the little money the Lord has given us to start. When we get better at managing the money we have to start I believe that the Lord will give us more to manage. I personally do hope to be wealthy enough to be able to fund as many missionaries as I can. I would love to be able to hear of a ministry that needs a new building and just be able to pay for the whole thing.

Again the Lord says he is the one who gives us the ability to create wealth but not to forget HIm in the process.

keeping His commandments, His judgments, and His statutes which I command you today, 12 lest—when you have eaten and are full, and have built beautiful houses and dwell in them; 13 and when your herds and your flocks multiply, and your silver and your gold are multiplied, and all that you have is multiplied; 14 when your heart is lifted up, and you forget the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage; 15 who led you through that great and terrible wilderness, in which were fiery serpents and scorpions and thirsty land where there was no water; who brought water for you out of the flinty rock; 16 who fed you in the wilderness with manna, which your fathers did not know, that He might humble you and that He might test you, to do you good in the end— 17 then you say in your heart, ‘My power and the might of my hand have gained me this wealth.’

18 “And you shall remember the Lord your God, for it is He who gives you power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day. 19 Then it shall be, if you by any means forget the Lord your God, and follow other gods, and serve them and worship them, I testify against you this day that you shall surely perish. 20 As the nations which the Lord destroys before you, so you shall perish, because you would not be obedient to the voice of the Lord your God.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

So yes, riches can be a trap, and we must guard our heart with all diligence as the word says, however riches in and of themselves are not evil or bad.

The Old Testament was even with restraint unto the King!

Deut 17:17

17 Neither shall he multiply wives for himself, lest his heart turn away; nor shall he greatly multiply silver and gold for himself.

NKJV

The New Testament says with riches also deceit...

Matt 13:22

22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness

of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.

NKJV

There will be those who say in their own strength I will have riches but God says

1 Cor 10:12-13a

12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man;

NKJV

The NT seems to paint a different picture Izzy or at least for my understanding it does :)

Love, Steven

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The Old Testament was even with restraint unto the King!

Deut 17:17

17 Neither shall he multiply wives for himself, lest his heart turn away; nor shall he greatly multiply silver and gold for himself.

NKJV

Yes. The key word was himself. Solomon ignored this whole verse. He multiplied both wives and wealth for himself, look at the extravagance of his house that far outshone the house of the Lord. David brought in a lot of wealth, for the Lord and his people. David brought in most of the wealth for the building of the temple, and yet his heart was not deceived.

The New Testament says with riches also deceit...

Matt 13:22

22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world AND the deceitfulness

of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.

NKJV

The riches were secondary. The cares of the world came in, and the riches, deceived him, in my opinion, because of his lack of trust in the Lord. Worrying about material cares makes riches seem like a good way to fix your problems. As we both agree your real problems can never be fixed by riches. Again the Riches in and of themselves are not evil, its the heart of the person.

There will be those who say in their own strength I will have riches but God says

1 Cor 10:12-13a

12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man;

NKJV

This verse does not apply to only wealth. But to all temptations.

The NT seems to paint a different picture Izzy or at least for my understanding it does :)

Love, Steven

Again look at my list of wealthy in the Bible where they deceived by their wealth? If it was so evil, why did God make them wealthy and even give back to Job more than he had before he lost everything?

Remember that they way we deal with money in any amount shows our heart issue. I know multi-millionaires that there wealth has no hold on them and i know people who are drowning in debt only to try to appear well off or wealthy. To me that is just as much a deceit and a trap. For their heart is in not in wealth but appearing wealthy.

Remember the key is this verse.

Mark 7:20

20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”

For an example of another issue that there is no real debate on, that is sexual temptations. Sex, in the context of marriage is a good and desirable thing. However outside of the covenant of marriage it is an destructive thing and In proverbs the wise man describes the adulteress as deceitful. You see again wealth in the proper context is fine. I believe if you are blessed with great wealth, as Job was it is a blessing to be used to bless others. Again I must emphasise that if you remember that you do not own the wealth but the Lord and you are a Manager of the wealth he gives you to manage.

Lets read, and remember that a Talent was a measurement of money, worth about 9 years of wages.

The Parable of the Talents

14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.

20 “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’

24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’

26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.

29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

I think my overall point is this. Many Christians do not handle their money well. They do what average people do and that is spend money they don't have, on things they don't need to impress people they don't like. Many Christians are broke, and they feel that this is somehow godly as being wealthy is my its nature "Evil" as is money. They mishandle the money God gives them to manage, and so God will not give them more to manage. Even if they manage money a little better they avoid trying to have extra to give, again because in their head Money and wealth in its nature is a trap and evil.

Remember you must take things in context and the whole word, not just part. Also look at biblical examples, and they only people whose wealth was a problem had other heart issues, every single one of them, the wealth issue was a big but secondary issue.

It was a wealthy man in my case who paid out of pocket for my entire time as a missionary. The missionary bases new extension campus was paid for primarily by wealthy christians.

To wrap up, I believe all Christians should manage their money wisely. If they do, by the nature of how money works they will eventually become wealthy. That is to say if you spend less than you make and save money, and do not ever get into debt you will eventually become wealthy. This is not chasing riches, this is not making money the center of your life, this is slowly over time with wisdom and hard work managing the money the Lord has given to you and increasing it, just like the good steward. With this money you can then turn around and sew it into the kingdom, and be a blessing. To have wealth, just to be wealthy is putting your money where God should be is most definitely wrong. To have God at the center of your heart, and have HIs wealth to manage to take care of your family, and to give, is a wonderful thing and something many in the Church today are missing. Too many babies are being tossed out with the bathwater on this one.

Steven I recommend that you watch that video I linked to, it will give you an Idea of what I mean.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The kingdom demands more than merely keeping many commandments; if we recognize Christ as our King, we must surrender to him everything we have and are (compare L. Johnson 1981:17). Whether he then allows us to use some of what he has given us is his choice. Disciples do not always lose all possessions upon conversion-but they lose all ownership of them, for they themselves belong to a new ruler.

http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/Matt/Cost-Discipleship

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

To wrap up, I believe all Christians should manage their money wisely. If they do, by the nature of how money works they will eventually become wealthy. That is to say if you spend less than you make and save money, and do not ever get into debt you will eventually become wealthy. This is not chasing riches, this is not making money the center of your life, this is slowly over time with wisdom and hard work managing the money the Lord has given to you and increasing it, just like the good steward. With this money you can then turn around and sew it into the kingdom, and be a blessing. To have wealth, just to be wealthy is putting your money where God should be is most definitely wrong. To have God at the center of your heart, and have HIs wealth to manage to take care of your family, and to give, is a wonderful thing and something many in the Church today are missing. Too many babies are being tossed out with the bathwater on this one.

One doesn't need money to sow into the kingdom.

.

something many in the Church today are missing.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The kingdom demands more than merely keeping many commandments; if we recognize Christ as our King, we must surrender to him everything we have and are (compare L. Johnson 1981:17). Whether he then allows us to use some of what he has given us is his choice. Disciples do not always lose all possessions upon conversion-but they lose all ownership of them, for they themselves belong to a new ruler.

http://www.biblegate...st-Discipleship

Izzy I understand what you are saying...

perhaps this will explain why I have held aloof from riches:

Note-In my understanding of God's Word The OT was set

forth as example for us-> that, in the world, in ourselves,

and in the law salvation was not to be found.

It is quite easy to see by God's own witness:

Heb 10:4

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins

NKJV

1 Cor 10:11

11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written

for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come

NKJV

**********************transition OT to NT*****************************

23 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful

for me, but not all things edify. 24 Let no one seek his own, but each one the

other's well-being.

NKJV

We are responsible to lead people in the light of God's Word and if we go into the OT to justify the living

in the NT... we invalidate a major division in God's Word and disobey the study to show one's self approved!

God teaches progressive revelation in His Word and with each additional new revelation we are not to

return to the old but remain in the new for we are held accountable for that knowledge God has given!

******************Context of passage Luke 9:57-62 our responsibility as disciples********************

Luke 9:62

62 But Jesus said to him, "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back,

is fit for the kingdom of God."

NKJV

This seems very radical to us at first but as one meditates upon the precepts The Lord is teaching us this

becomes evident:

Col 3:1-4

3 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is,

sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life

appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

NKJV

Notice in this the following verse (future life with God)

value is understood but money is not present!

Isa 55:1

55 "Ho! Everyone who thirsts,

Come to the waters;

And you who have no money,

Come, buy and eat.

Yes, come, buy wine and milk

Without money and without price.

NKJV

Most of the OT warns against riches so much so that Christ's verbage in the rich young ruler reiterates

this truth and understanding-

Matt 19:23-26

23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man

to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go

through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?"

26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

NKJV

This leaves us with this question if Christ's advice is to get rid of it... who are we to say it is alright to keep?

Or perhaps better if in The Garden money was not... and then in sin money was found to be... and so much so

that now the system says you must put it away to care for one's self.. Soon, however, the mark of beast comes in and in

order to continue in that care for self and family one must take- / yet /- God says to not care for one's family (Matt 12:48-50)

is to deny the faith... The paradox is clear the problem of money is resolved in the destruction of the system from which

money has been born! We that stand apart from that system shall escape monies grasp of control upon us...

Love, Steven

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

It can be a means for doing evil (like buying illegal drugs with it) but in and of itself, it's benign.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Can you back this up with Scripture Tinky?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Can you back this up with Scripture Tinky?

I don't know exactly what you mean. Money is just paper and small pieces of metal. It's what we do with it, or what place it has in our lives (such as, if it's more important to us than our devotion to God) that makes it "evil."

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Can you back this up with Scripture Tinky?

I don't know exactly what you mean. Money is just paper and small pieces of metal. It's what we do with it, or what place it has in our lives (such as, if it's more important to us than our devotion to God) that makes it "evil."

well God's teachings say there is deceitfulness in riches... the overall outcome of Scripture

is to render to proper places things as specific to money Matt 22:20-22

notice money is not seen in the eternal state

Isa 55:1

55 "Ho! Everyone who thirsts,

Come to the waters;

And you who have no money,

Come, buy and eat.

Yes, come, buy wine and milk

Without money and without price.

NKJV

It doesn't appear benign to Scripture's Teachings!

Can you show me in Scripture that money is benign...

Love, Steven

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Think about this set up. It's very logically useful. People don't simply trade things anymore. Money isn't just currency and coins and notes, its the assignment of value that everything is given. That way it's all fair, right? Okay, some people are overly compensated, others are plain clean ripped off. But who are those that decide that a thing is a certain value and therefore you should pay such an amount for it? So many factors to consider: quantity, quality, usefulness, presentation, age of item/antiquity (see the difference? Nobody wants a cheeseburger that was made last year...) all of which capture our focus to acquire as many things as possible to fill our lives which as much value as possible. Well, that's what the enemy wants us to think, anyway. If I buy a dishwasher my life will be easier. Will it really? Maybe. But it's best to have the most up-to-date model, even though it's most expensive. A big brand name (of course they're the most trustworthy!) Pretty soon the focus goes from [money = things = value] to [money = value], and then we have long gone far beyond losing sight of what is really important. Love, friendship, fun: God. It's so inevitable that the Bible says that loving money is the root of all evil.

But if our riches come from God... ah!

Abraham acquired wealth from God that could not be found on earth because it was specifically founded on God's promise and blessing. What a wealthy man he truly is!

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Can you back this up with Scripture Tinky?

I don't know exactly what you mean. Money is just paper and small pieces of metal. It's what we do with it, or what place it has in our lives (such as, if it's more important to us than our devotion to God) that makes it "evil."

well God's teachings say there is deceitfulness in riches... the overall outcome of Scripture

is to render to proper places things as specific to money Matt 22:20-22

Can you show me in Scripture that money is benign...

The Bible says it's the love of money that's the root of all evil, not the money itself. Money isn't a living thing - it can't "do" good or evil - it's simply a "thing." Before printed money or coinage, people simply bartered for what they needed. Were the things that were traded "evil?"

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The Bible says it's the love of money that's the root of all evil, not the money itself. Money isn't a living thing - it can't "do" good or evil - it's simply a "thing." Before printed money or coinage, people simply bartered for what they needed. Were the things that were traded "evil?"

Tinky what you have said here is very true “Before printed money or coinage, people simply bartered for what they needed. Were the things that were traded "evil?" and as the system has developed in a forward progress we know this:

  1. The progress of the system is anti-christ leading to billions relying upon this world for life!
  2. The last days are marked with many who fall away because of increase in wickedness…
  3. Christ warned about riches specific to those He loved and trained- Lk 18:24-29
  4. The barter of living necessity of Abraham’s time and today of the need of silver and gold in place of- is the deceitfulness of the world’s system in the minds of men… simple truth you cannot eat metal nor does it compare to the garden of God’s making when sin had not been released yet!
  5. How can that which sinful man has designed be benign?
  6. These things must be reasoned through God’s Word and not the formation of worldly wisdom!

If you are having trouble in understanding God’s hatred of where we are read this:

Jude 22-23 And on some have compassion, making a distinction; 23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh. NKJV

Here the garment is like the money… your rational! Ask yourself is it not?

Love, Steven

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Think about this set up. It's very logically useful. People don't simply trade things anymore. Money isn't just currency and coins and notes, its the assignment of value that everything is given. That way it's all fair, right? Okay, some people are overly compensated, others are plain clean ripped off. But who are those that decide that a thing is a certain value and therefore you should pay such an amount for it? So many factors to consider: quantity, quality, usefulness, presentation, age of item/antiquity (see the difference? Nobody wants a cheeseburger that was made last year...) all of which capture our focus to acquire as many things as possible to fill our lives which as much value as possible. Well, that's what the enemy wants us to think, anyway. If I buy a dishwasher my life will be easier. Will it really? Maybe. But it's best to have the most up-to-date model, even though it's most expensive. A big brand name (of course they're the most trustworthy!) Pretty soon the focus goes from [money = things = value] to [money = value], and then we have long gone far beyond losing sight of what is really important. Love, friendship, fun: God. It's so inevitable that the Bible says that loving money is the root of all evil.

But if our riches come from God... ah!

Abraham acquired wealth from God that could not be found on earth because it was specifically founded on God's promise and blessing. What a wealthy man he truly is!

Exactly... the Garden was good! After sin we see the formation of things through the sin nature the system to spawn the anti-christ. We are now in the final formation of that system

and what do we see? As you have said with empowerment of this worlds riches we justify all sorts of rational~ past needs~ to status and they see it not! The deceitfulness of riches!

Love, Steven

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I think my overall point is this. Many Christians do not handle their money well. They do what average people do and that is spend money they don't have, on things they don't need to impress people they don't like. Many Christians are broke, and they feel that this is somehow godly as being wealthy is my its nature "Evil" as is money. They mishandle the money God gives them to manage, and so God will not give them more to manage. Even if they manage money a little better they avoid trying to have extra to give, again because in their head Money and wealth in its nature is a trap and evil.

Remember you must take things in context and the whole word, not just part. Also look at biblical examples, and they only people whose wealth was a problem had other heart issues, every single one of them, the wealth issue was a big but secondary issue.

It was a wealthy man in my case who paid out of pocket for my entire time as a missionary. The missionary bases new extension campus was paid for primarily by wealthy christians.

To wrap up, I believe all Christians should manage their money wisely. If they do, by the nature of how money works they will eventually become wealthy. That is to say if you spend less than you make and save money, and do not ever get into debt you will eventually become wealthy. This is not chasing riches, this is not making money the center of your life, this is slowly over time with wisdom and hard work managing the money the Lord has given to you and increasing it, just like the good steward. With this money you can then turn around and sew it into the kingdom, and be a blessing. To have wealth, just to be wealthy is putting your money where God should be is most definitely wrong. To have God at the center of your heart, and have HIs wealth to manage to take care of your family, and to give, is a wonderful thing and something many in the Church today are missing. Too many babies are being tossed out with the bathwater on this one.

I agree with you brother and in particular in the bolded comments. :thumbsup:

Not managing our resources/income properly is like someone who has no rule over his spirit... a broken down city without a wall which can be easily attacked

Proverbs 25:28

He who has no rule over his own spirit is like a broken down city without a wall.

I think there's a strong case to have an emergency fund in order not to pay interest and put "emergency" costs on the credit card.

Proverbs 27:12

A prudent man sees evil and hides himself, the naive proceed and pay the penalty.

Becoming wealthy takes time and it must be purposeful. It doesn't happen over night and God can indeed bless people to further His Kingdom. :thumbsup:

Proverbs 24:3-4

Through wisdom a house is built, and by understanding it is established; and by knowledge the rooms shall be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

enoob57: How can that which sinful man has designed be benign?

Again, because money is a "thing" not a "living thing."

​Jesus used money. The apostles used money. Money in and of itself is not evil or wrong. It's what you do with it. You can use it to fund an orphanage, or pay someone to kill somebody. Either way, it's the actions of the person using the money that is good or evil.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The Bible says it's the love of money that's the root of all evil, not the money itself. Money isn't a living thing - it can't "do" good or evil - it's simply a "thing." Before printed money or coinage, people simply bartered for what they needed. Were the things that were traded "evil?"

Tinky what you have said here is very true “Before printed money or coinage, people simply bartered for what they needed. Were the things that were traded "evil?" and as the system has developed in a forward progress we know this:

  1. The progress of the system is anti-christ leading to billions relying upon this world for life!
  2. The last days are marked with many who fall away because of increase in wickedness…
  3. Christ warned about riches specific to those He loved and trained- Lk 18:24-29
  4. The barter of living necessity of Abraham’s time and today of the need of silver and gold in place of- is the deceitfulness of the world’s system in the minds of men… simple truth you cannot eat metal nor does it compare to the garden of God’s making when sin had not been released yet!
  5. How can that which sinful man has designed be benign?
  6. These things must be reasoned through God’s Word and not the formation of worldly wisdom!

If you are having trouble in understanding God’s hatred of where we are read this:

Jude 22-23 And on some have compassion, making a distinction; 23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh. NKJV

Here the garment is like the money… your rational! Ask yourself is it not?

Love, Steven

Money isn't evil. It's the love of money that is evil. It's a heart issue not a monetary issue. We as Christ followers need to be content in whatever situation God has us in whatever season of life God has us in.

1 Timothy 6:7-10

For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many grief’s.

Ecclesiastes 5:10

Whoever loves money never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income. This too is meaningless.

Philippians 4:11-13

For I have learned to be content, whatever the circumstances may be. I know now how to live when things are difficult and I know how to live when things are prosperous. In general and in particular I have learned the secret of eating well or going hungry of facing either plenty of poverty. I am ready for anything through the strength of the One who lives within me.

Mark 8:36

For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, and forfeit his soul?

I also agree with Isaiah (Izzy). Too many Christians think that they need to live poor (monetarily speaking) lives and somehow this is godly. As if mishandling money is somehow okay and living beyond our means is ideal. Almost like the whole monk/nun/monestary mentality that somehow sub-existing or barely making it is what God wants for us. We are called to be faithful and to live life in abundance!

Proverbs 21:5

The plans of the diligent lead surely to advantage, but everyone who is hasty comes surely to poverty.

Proverbs 28:20

A faithful man will abound with blessings, but he who makes haste to be rich will not go unpunished.

John 10:10

The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.

God gives and blessings are from the Lord. We're to help the weak and less fortunate. This also means with financial blessings God has given us. Support for missions projects, schools, orphanages, etc. and ultimately furthering the Gospel are all worthy causes.

Ecclesiastes 5:19

Furthermore, as for every man to whom God has given riches and wealth, He has also empowered him to eat from them and to receive his reward and rejoice in his labor; this is the gift of God.

John 3:27

John answered and said, ” A man can receive nothing unless it has been given him from heaven.

Acts 20:35

“In everything I showed you that by working hard in this manner you must help the weak and

remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He Himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

Your thoughts brother?

God bless,

GE

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

enoob57: How can that which sinful man has designed be benign?

Again, because money is a "thing" not a "living thing."

​Jesus used money. The apostles used money. Money in and of itself is not evil or wrong. It's what you do with it. You can use it to fund an orphanage, or pay someone to kill somebody. Either way, it's the actions of the person using the money that is good or evil.

I agree money is benign and ammoral. It's what is done with money that is either good or evil. :)

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

enoob57: How can that which sinful man has designed be benign?

Again, because money is a "thing" not a "living thing."

​Jesus used money. The apostles used money. Money in and of itself is not evil or wrong. It's what you do with it. You can use it to fund an orphanage, or pay someone to kill somebody. Either way, it's the actions of the person using the money that is good or evil.

I agree money is benign and amoral. It's what is done with money that is either good or evil. :)

This reasoning in Scripture still awaits your evaluation though

Jude 23

23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

NKJV

certainly the garment is as money amoral yet here hatred is directed toward it....

Why does God burn up the first heaven and earth if it is amoral?

Why when The Christ finished this narrative

Mt 19:25

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?"

NKJV

did his disciples have this such question?

This clearly seems needful toward obedience

Mt 6:19-24

19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal;

20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break

in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

The Lamp of the Body

(Lk 11:34-36)

22 "The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light.

23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is

darkness, how great is that darkness!

You Cannot Serve God and Riches

24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be

loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

NKJV

Certainly this warning would not be of amoral things...

1 Co 7:29-31

29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be

as though they had none, 30 those who weep as though they did not weep, those who rejoice as though

they did not rejoice, those who buy as though they did not possess, 31 and those who use this world as

not misusing it. For the form of this world is passing away.

NKJV

This is an attitude toward the temporal things that are not eternally kept...

If you have riches you also have with them by witness of God- deceitfulness in them....

Mt 13:22

22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world

and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.

NKJV

deceitfulness is not amoral....

Love, Steven

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The ability to uses money for the betterment of your family is not evil. However, along with the attainment of the wealth comes a responsibility to help those who are in need. To use it selfishly is wrong. To help others to learn of our Lord in lets say the Bible Society, to reach those who have never read the Word of God or to help in a Mission to feed the hungry in near or far places or to help your family should they need it if you are able. I do not say to LEND. That is not good - it leads to frustration and grief. If God blesses you financially then be a blessing to others.

Was interested in this post because of the word 'LEND' and the fact that you say it is not good. I was considering lending my son money to help with buying his first home - the reason being that I didn't want him throwing away money on interest payments - but also teaching him responsibility about money management - i.e. that he needs to set aside part of his salary and be responsible rather than having money 'drop out of the sky'. I'm not disagreeing with you at all but I just wondered if you think there is anything wrong with my approach in treating it as a loan rather than a gift - he will eventually inherit whatever I leave and I have no plans on spending any payments that he makes - rather I would invest them for him so that he eventually benefits from them - as I said not disagreeing - just wanted your opinion.

First things first: Welcome to the forum Big-Al.

I know that you have asked this question to the other poster, however, my parents had a fair amount of cash on hand and where people that helped others. I was raised with the idea that I should never borrow anything unless I was prepared to buy it. The leading on money by my parents got paid back with interest. I however, never had to borrow money from my parents, yet, I knew I could if I needed to. I do not think you are wrong, however, with-in my own family I watched money turn some, into people I did not know. Money is not evil, the Love of money is.

If you didn't need money to survive you wouldn't have to help others with it. I think giving to charity is in a way enabling a monster called Greed. Money inspires greed so therefore money is as evil as the snake that tempted Eve and as bitter as the apple she ate.

If Jesus hadn't paid His taxes He would have been jailed and unable to fulfill His Destiny. Jesus was setting a good example. Jesus said, "it's easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven". There is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Jesus was clearly not a fan of wealth. There is no way to be righteous and wealthy, IMO.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

This reasoning in Scripture still awaits your evaluation though

Jude 23

23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

NKJV

certainly the garment is as money amoral yet here hatred is directed toward it....

Why does God burn up the first heaven and earth if it is amoral?

Money is a means to an end. The end is the issue and not the means. The end is where either good or evil intentions/actions are found. Would you agree with this?

Jude 1:20-23

Maintain Your Life with God

20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction; 23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

The focus of this passage is not hate but the love of God and God’s mercy through Jesus Christ. Wouldn’t you agree?

Yes I agree there will be a new heaven and new earth. That doesn’t make money moral IMO.

Possible to get your thoughts on my post (#84) brother?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Why when The Christ finished this narrative

Mt 19:25

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?"

NKJV

did his disciples have this such question?

Do you believe that rich people will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do you believe that?

If so how to reconcile this idea with the following… Our poor in America are some of the richest people in the world. Our poor have on average 1 computer, 2 TVs, a cell phone, often have 2-3 meals a day, and often have 2 cars per household.

A poor person in Oklahoma for example is richer than 90% of the world's population.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

This clearly seems needful toward obedience

Mt 6:19-24

19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal;

20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

The Lamp of the Body

(Lk 11:34-36)

22 "The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light.

23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

You Cannot Serve God and Riches

24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

NKJV

We’re not talking about greed here. We’re not talking about SERVING money. We’re talking about money on earth - a means to exchange goods and services. The LOVE of money is the roots of all forms of evil. Motivation is the issue. Are we talking about being motivated by God’s love or our own desires?

For perspective when was the last time a poor person single handedly paid for a library, hospital, orphanage, school, or church?

What if God gives certain people (Believers who CAN handle money well) resources to further His Kingdom?

Again we’re talking about motivation.

Since when does success = lack of spirituality?

Deuteronomy 30:9

The Lord your God will then make you successful in everything you do. He will give you many children and numerous livestock, and he will cause your fields to produce abundant harvests, for the Lord will again delight in being good to you as he was to your ancestors.

Joshua 1:8

This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success.

Nehemiah 2:20

…”The God of heaven will give us success; therefore we His servants will arise and build…”

Psalm 1:1-3

Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers. But his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on his law he meditates day and night. He is like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in season and whose leaf does not wither. Whatever he does prospers.

Psalm 37:4

Delight yourself in the Lord; And He will give you the desires of your heart.

Proverbs 22:29

Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will stand before kings; he will not stand before obscure men.

Proverbs 22:4

The reward of humility and the fear of the Lord are riches, honor and life.

Isaiah 1:19

If you consent and obey, you will eat the best of the land;

Understand I'm not saying everything in life will be okay or you'll always be prosperous simply by seving God. However, I think there's good arguments Biblically that if you work hard you are more likely to be successful than those who don't work hard...

Proverbs 10:4

Poor is he who works with a negligent hand, but the hand of the diligent makes rich.

Proverbs 12:24

The hand of the diligent will rule, but the slack hand will be put to forced labor.

Proverbs 14:23

In all labor there is profit, but mere talk leads only to poverty.

Proverbs 21:5

The plans of the diligent lead surely to advantage, but everyone who is hasty comes surely to poverty.

Some questions some people ask… (And I've been guilty of this myself)

How could anyone in good conscious drive a car that expensive? (Perhaps anything more expensive than mine?)

How could she spend that kind of money on a coat?

I could do a lot of good a lot of good with {insert “luxurious” item here}. (TV, house, car, boat, vacation, coat, clothes, etc.)

What is really the motivation behind such questions? Aren’t these people who ask such questions really just jealous of someone else’s success and/or status in life?

Food for thought.

God bless,

GE

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0