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Israeli state in 1948

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#41
TrackerJack

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Genesis 6:3 says a man's days shall be 120 years.

However I agree with you that a generation is more likely 70 years.

We just can't rule out the 120.

There were 14 generations from Abraham until David and 14 from David to the captivity and 14 from captivity to Jesus.

If a generation is 70 then there were 980 years between each event (a day is AS 1000 years).

If a Jubilee cycle is 49 years, there were 20 Jubilee cycles between each event as well.


... or it could all be a coincidence ...

#42
gdemoss

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Genesis 6:3 says a man's days shall be 120 years.

However I agree with you that a generation is more likely 70 years.

We just can't rule out the 120.

There were 14 generations from Abraham until David and 14 from David to the captivity and 14 from captivity to Jesus.

If a generation is 70 then there were 980 years between each event (a day is AS 1000 years).

If a Jubilee cycle is 49 years, there were 20 Jubilee cycles between each event as well.


... or it could all be a coincidence ...


Jack, I had issue with the 120 years you speak of until it was revealed unto me that that 120 years was the time left until the flood and not the limit put upon a mans years.

Gary

#43
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Interesting.

#44
Retrobyter

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Shalom, TrackerJack.

Genesis clearly states that after the flood, God said that man should not live longer than 120 years.

It's a good bet that He will return before 2068.


All this over a wrong premise. Get your facts straight! He didn't say that AFTER the Flood; it was said BEFORE the Flood (Gen. 6:3), and what God was saying was that He was only going to put up with their sins for 120 more years and then He was going to hit them with the Flood! We're told in Genesis 9:29 that Noach lived 950 years! Genesis 11:10-11 says Shem lived 600 years! Genesis 11:12-13 says Arpakhshad lived 438 years! Genesis 11:14-15 says Shelach lived 433 years! Genesis 11:16-17 says `Ever lived 464 years! Genesis 11:18-19 says Peleg lived 239 years! Genesis 11:20-21 says Re`u also lived 239 years! Genesis 11:22-23 says S'rug lived 230 years! Genesis 11:24-25 says Nachor live 148 years! Genesis 11:26-32 says Terach live 275 years, and Avraham lived for 175 years (Gen. 25:7)! Sarah lived for 127 years herself (Gen. 23:1)! So, this interpretation of Genesis 6:3 is OBVIOUSLY wrong!

And, for those who think a generation is x number of years, whatever the x is, you're being GOOFY! Quit pinning your hopes on numbers! Yes, Isra'el became a nation again in 1948 and re-gained Yerushalayim in 1967, but they have yet to eject all the Goyim (the Gentiles)! Yerushalayim is STILL being trodden underfoot by the Goyim! Even the Old City within the walls remains divided into four quarters, the Jews only controlling one of those quarters!

So, what happens after 2013 or even 2068 and nothing changes again? Are you going to reset your calculators and find some new numbers to play with? Live for God the best you can TODAY, and don't worry about the things of tomorrow. Tomorrow has enough troubles of its own!

#45
TrackerJack

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Although Gary did an excellent job of pointing out that the 120 years is for the flood, I can't help but think that statement by G-d Han two meanings.

I always took it as G-d saying that it was not good for man to live so long, and everyone born after that point would only live to 120.

Even today, its extremely rare to live past 120.

#46
gdemoss

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So, what happens after 2013 or even 2068 and nothing changes again?


I have openly stated and will reaffirm here, that if 2013 comes and goes silently into history, I will personally close my bible, go to church without questioning the pastor, continue to work to submit to the moral teachings of Jesus and understand that I am simply a nutcase who knows nothing.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

#47
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Shalom, gdemoss.


So, what happens after 2013 or even 2068 and nothing changes again?


I have openly stated and will reaffirm here, that if 2013 comes and goes silently into history, I will personally close my bible, go to church without questioning the pastor, continue to work to submit to the moral teachings of Jesus and understand that I am simply a nutcase who knows nothing.

In Jesus Name,

Gary


Before you go "quietly into the night" (a quote taken from the movie Independence Day), might I suggest that you take a STRONGER view of prophecy and become a CHAMPION for the truth? You don't need specific numbers for that! To the contrary, I believe that having a harmonious understanding of the prophecies, particularly those often ignored in the Tanakh (the OT), can lead to a MUCH stronger view of prophecy!

Every Christian wants to camp on Revelation, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 Corinthians 15, 2 Peter 3, the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, and a few other verses here and there and ignore the broader scope of all the prophecies! There are four major prophets and twelve "minor" prophets in the Tanakh, some of which are NEVER read by the common Christian! David and Shlomo (Solomon) also were prophets in their own right, and one can glean much from the Psalms, the Proverbs and Ecclesiates. Just read them for their OWN information! You will find that some are prophecies that were written for their future that have already been fulfilled and are in our past, but even those can teach you how God fulfills His prophecies completely, accurately, and judicially.

Read them as a child would listen to someone telling him or her a story. Find a good translation that you can enjoy and is not distracting, take the shorter books first, and read them through from beginning to end without a break, if possible. Try to let the words speak to YOU, rather that you trying to figure out how the words might fit into your assumed theological, eschatological framework. For me, it worked best when I just kicked out everything I was taught to believe and started from scratch. I did this back in 1977-78 during my second year at Bible college. It takes a moment of desperation and a good deal of courage, but with a clean slate, one can more easily go to the Scriptures and be a "sponge" for the truth! I threw out everything but two facts: 1. God was real, and 2. God had "saved" me and I was His child. If God was real, then it made sense that He created the world and all the creatures in it, including the human race. It also made sense that He would try to communicate with His created beings, the human race. Back then, all I knew was the KJV. And, since I was "led to the Lord" through the Bible, then I knew that His communication was through the Bible.

Today, had I known about a version like the Complete Jewish Bible back then, I would have embraced that version, because I find it MUCH easier to read and I believe that the names are more accurately transliterated as they sounded to the Jewish ear.

It's important to get back to our "Jewish roots": Our "Jewish roots" are Yeshua` the Messiah (Jesus the Christ) Himself and the Jews who were: His family, His friends, His teachers, His followers, and who will one day be His primary subjects! Our "Jewish roots" include the history and the instruction (the TORAH) that God gave to Mosheh (Moses) to record. Our "Jewish roots" include how that the first churches consisted almost entirely, if not entirely indeed, of Jews! He was THEIR Messiah; He was THEIR prophecies coming true! All of the places that Yeshua` went when He was here during His first advent, His first coming, can be found RIGHT THERE in the Land of Isra'el TODAY! ALL of the Tanakh (an acronym for Torah - Instruction, Navi'iym - Prophets, and Ketuviym - Writings) that we call the "Old Testament" today was written in Hebrew, the language of the Jews, was written FOR Isra'el, was written TO Isra'el, was written ABOUT Isra'el, and was written BY Isra'elites! Even the "New Testament" was probably originally written in either Hebrew or Aramaic, a Semitic dialect like a Syrian version of Hebrew, and then translated into the Koine Greek.

There IS life after ego!

#48
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I'm looking forward to someone finding that Aramaic text.

#49
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Shalom, TrackerJack.

I'm looking forward to someone finding that Aramaic text.


Yes, I am, too! In fact, if you'd like to track the progress, you might find some help at http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/ .

Please understand. This is NOT my website, and all I'm doing is passing along some information.

#50
gdemoss

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Shalom, gdemoss.



So, what happens after 2013 or even 2068 and nothing changes again?


I have openly stated and will reaffirm here, that if 2013 comes and goes silently into history, I will personally close my bible, go to church without questioning the pastor, continue to work to submit to the moral teachings of Jesus and understand that I am simply a nutcase who knows nothing.

In Jesus Name,

Gary


Before you go "quietly into the night" (a quote taken from the movie Independence Day), might I suggest that you take a STRONGER view of prophecy and become a CHAMPION for the truth? You don't need specific numbers for that! To the contrary, I believe that having a harmonious understanding of the prophecies, particularly those often ignored in the Tanakh (the OT), can lead to a MUCH stronger view of prophecy!

Every Christian wants to camp on Revelation, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 Corinthians 15, 2 Peter 3, the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, and a few other verses here and there and ignore the broader scope of all the prophecies! There are four major prophets and twelve "minor" prophets in the Tanakh, some of which are NEVER read by the common Christian! David and Shlomo (Solomon) also were prophets in their own right, and one can glean much from the Psalms, the Proverbs and Ecclesiates. Just read them for their OWN information! You will find that some are prophecies that were written for their future that have already been fulfilled and are in our past, but even those can teach you how God fulfills His prophecies completely, accurately, and judicially.

Read them as a child would listen to someone telling him or her a story. Find a good translation that you can enjoy and is not distracting, take the shorter books first, and read them through from beginning to end without a break, if possible. Try to let the words speak to YOU, rather that you trying to figure out how the words might fit into your assumed theological, eschatological framework. For me, it worked best when I just kicked out everything I was taught to believe and started from scratch. I did this back in 1977-78 during my second year at Bible college. It takes a moment of desperation and a good deal of courage, but with a clean slate, one can more easily go to the Scriptures and be a "sponge" for the truth! I threw out everything but two facts: 1. God was real, and 2. God had "saved" me and I was His child. If God was real, then it made sense that He created the world and all the creatures in it, including the human race. It also made sense that He would try to communicate with His created beings, the human race. Back then, all I knew was the KJV. And, since I was "led to the Lord" through the Bible, then I knew that His communication was through the Bible.

Today, had I known about a version like the Complete Jewish Bible back then, I would have embraced that version, because I find it MUCH easier to read and I believe that the names are more accurately transliterated as they sounded to the Jewish ear.

It's important to get back to our "Jewish roots": Our "Jewish roots" are Yeshua` the Messiah (Jesus the Christ) Himself and the Jews who were: His family, His friends, His teachers, His followers, and who will one day be His primary subjects! Our "Jewish roots" include the history and the instruction (the TORAH) that God gave to Mosheh (Moses) to record. Our "Jewish roots" include how that the first churches consisted almost entirely, if not entirely indeed, of Jews! He was THEIR Messiah; He was THEIR prophecies coming true! All of the places that Yeshua` went when He was here during His first advent, His first coming, can be found RIGHT THERE in the Land of Isra'el TODAY! ALL of the Tanakh (an acronym for Torah - Instruction, Navi'iym - Prophets, and Ketuviym - Writings) that we call the "Old Testament" today was written in Hebrew, the language of the Jews, was written FOR Isra'el, was written TO Isra'el, was written ABOUT Isra'el, and was written BY Isra'elites! Even the "New Testament" was probably originally written in either Hebrew or Aramaic, a Semitic dialect like a Syrian version of Hebrew, and then translated into the Koine Greek.

There IS life after ego!


You describe the journey that I began to venture into 2 years ago. Except that I threw out everything and started from scratch retaining only the idea that God was real. That is how I came to the conclusions I have so far. And for this cause, if I am proved wrong I see no reason to continue doing what I have been doing as that would be insane.

Gary

#51
Retrobyter

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Shalom, gdemoss.

...

You describe the journey that I began to venture into 2 years ago. Except that I threw out everything and started from scratch retaining only the idea that God was real. That is how I came to the conclusions I have so far. And for this cause, if I am proved wrong I see no reason to continue doing what I have been doing as that would be insane.

Gary


True, but if you are truly on the same journey I took, then take heart. There's a light at the end of the tunnel (and it's not a train)! Just do something differently than you have been doing, and ALWAYS draw closer to your Father by drawing closer to the Messiah! Remember: Yeshua`s words were "I am the way, the truth, and the life!" As you draw closer to Him, you draw closer to the Truth!

#52
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Shalom, Interplanner.

I doubt if you will find the Aramaic in written form, because that was oral transmission. Going over to Greek for the sake of widespread reading (like the blank in Eph. 1:2) would be like us choosing the i.net instead of typewriters; it was the latest in communication form; nothing personal against Jewish believers.

The reason 40 years matters is because of the decisiveness of the 40 years in the wilderness and its prefiguring roughly 30-70 AD. that's why my original response refered to using the image in Hebrews. It will help all forum people to 'track' the direction of the thread or forum...

New item: I need to know why 'until the fulness of the Gentiles' means a switch back to Jerusalem. why could it not mean 'for the duration of the times of the Gentiles'?

--Inter

It DOES mean that; however, WHAT COMES AFTERWARD? When the times of the Goyim are fulfilled, what do the Scriptures say will happen? Specifically, what did PAUL say in Romans 11 would happen?

Romans 11:11-32
11 “In that case, I say, isn’t it that they have stumbled with the result that they have permanently fallen away?” Heaven forbid! Quite the contrary, it is by means of their stumbling that the deliverance has come to the Gentiles, in order to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Moreover, if their stumbling is bringing riches to the world — that is, if Isra’el’s being placed temporarily in a condition less favored than that of the Gentiles is bringing riches to the latter — how much greater riches will Isra’el in its fullness bring them!

13 However, to those of you who are Gentiles I say this: since I myself am an emissary sent to the Gentiles, I make known the importance of my work 14 in the hope that somehow I may provoke some of my own people to jealousy and save some of them! 15 For if their casting Yeshua aside means reconciliation for the world, what will their accepting him mean? It will be life from the dead!

16 Now if the hallah (torn off portion of Jewish egg bread) offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole loaf. And if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you — a wild olive — were grafted in among them and have become equal sharers in the rich root of the olive tree, 18 then don’t boast as if you were better than the branches! However, if you do boast, remember that you are not supporting the root, the root is supporting you. 19 So you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 True, but so what? They were broken off because of their lack of trust. However, you keep your place only because of your trust. So don’t be arrogant; on the contrary, be terrified! 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he certainly won’t spare you! 22 So take a good look at God’s kindness and his severity: on the one hand, severity toward those who fell off; but, on the other hand, God’s kindness toward you — provided you maintain yourself in that kindness! Otherwise, you too will be cut off! 23 Moreover, the others, if they do not persist in their lack of trust, will be grafted in; because God is able to graft them back in. 24 For if you were cut out of what is by nature a wild olive tree and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these natural branches be grafted back into their own olive tree!

25 For, brothers, I want you to understand this truth which God formerly concealed but has now revealed, so that you won’t imagine you know more than you actually do. It is that stoniness, to a degree, has come upon Isra’el, until the Gentile world enters in its fullness; 26 and that it is in this way that all Isra’el will be saved. As the Tanakh says,

“Out of Tziyon will come the Redeemer;
he will turn away ungodliness from Ya‘akov
27 and this will be my covenant with them, . . .
when I take away their sins.”


28 With respect to the Good News they are hated for your sake. But with respect to being chosen they are loved for the Patriarchs’ sake, 29 for God’s free gifts and his calling are irrevocable. 30 Just as you yourselves were disobedient to God before but have received mercy now because of Isra’el’s disobedience; 31 so also Isra’el has been disobedient now, so that by your showing them the same mercy that God has shown you, they too may now receive God’s mercy. 32 For God has shut up all mankind together in disobedience, in order that he might show mercy to all.
CJB


#53
Intojoy

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The problem is that Yeshua did not use the fig tree symbolically to represent the nation period.
What Jesus does is use a tree to illustrate " timing." The point is that just like when a "tree" puts forth the buds, the second coming will come rapidly - exactly 3 & 1/2 years from the "event" that is represented by the "tree." It is not the "rebirth of Israel" that triggers the second coming but the Antichrist who triggers the end. This is the "direct" answer by Yeshua to his disciples question concerning the sign of Yeshua's coming. The answer to their question concerning the sign that begins the last days was a Jewish idiom for a world, global, conflict - "nation against nation" - the sign of the end of the age was WW1.

#54
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I should have pointed to this verse which Yeshua points to as being similar in "time telling,"
When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains: (Matthew 24:15, 16 ASV)

#55
Intojoy

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As you can see, the abomination of desolation takes place mid trib by the antichrist and what does it trigger? Fleeing.




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