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Did Jesus pay for ALL sin (past, present, and future sin)?

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#1
carlos123

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I was talking to a friend this morning who is not certain that Jesus paid the penalty for ALL sin and thought this might make a good topic to discuss here.

Thus...this post.

However if I might venture to set some parameters for this thread (I mean I can't stop anyone from doing otherwise but hopefully those who post will have some measure of godly self-control in sticking to the thread topic)...this thread is about the topic of whether Jesus paid the penalty for ALL sin.

It is NOT about once saved always saved or related issues (i.e. Amernian vs Calvinism of which there is already a very good thread about that here) though I grant you that one's stand on the question I raise does tie into the once saved always saved / one can lose their salvation controversy. But it is not directly about that. So PLEASE...stick to the topic at hand.

Once again the topic is did Jesus pay the penalty for ALL sin, once for all time (for ALL of our past, present, and future sin all rolled into the one sacrifice on the cross).

What does the Bible say about that? And is it definitively clear or not on this issue?

I personally believe the Bible is clear in saying that His death was for ALL sin once for ALL time. When I say ALL I mean exactly that. ALL. As in past, present, and future. ALL.

What say ye?

Carlos

#2
ENOCH2010

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I was talking to a friend this morning who is not certain that Jesus paid the penalty for ALL sin and thought this might make a good topic to discuss here.

Thus...this post.

However if I might venture to set some parameters for this thread (I mean I can't stop anyone from doing otherwise but hopefully those who post will have some measure of godly self-control in sticking to the thread topic)...this thread is about the topic of whether Jesus paid the penalty for ALL sin.

It is NOT about once saved always saved or related issues (i.e. Amernian vs Calvinism of which there is already a very good thread about that here) though I grant you that one's stand on the question I raise does tie into the once saved always saved / one can lose their salvation controversy. But it is not directly about that. So PLEASE...stick to the topic at hand.

Once again the topic is did Jesus pay the penalty for ALL sin, once for all time (for ALL of our past, present, and future sin all rolled into the one sacrifice on the cross).

What does the Bible say about that? And is it definitively clear or not on this issue?

I personally believe the Bible is clear in saying that His death was for ALL sin once for ALL time. When I say ALL I mean exactly that. ALL. As in past, present, and future. ALL.

What say ye?

Carlos

If He didn't I am in big trouble, because they're isn't anything I can offer to pay for mine.

#3
carlos123

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If He didn't I am in big trouble, because they're isn't anything I can offer to pay for mine.


So if I may pick your brain a bit Enoch (don't know what else to call you)...

If Jesus paid for ALL your sins at one time forever, and you have come to accept that through the Gospel...what motivates you to not sin?

Carlos

#4
joi

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To answer your last question: The love of Christ motivates me not to want to sin.

This verse may answer your op:

1Peter 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
http://bible.cc/1_peter/3-18.htm

Now back to sin, read 1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
http://bible.cc/1_john/1-9.htm


This verse tells us if we confess our known sins that God forgives them, and at the same time He forgives those thing we have done that we do not recognize as sin.

#5
carlos123

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So what would you say to someone who believes that Jesus paid for ALL their sin but who is not motivated enough by that to fight temptation in areas of weakness to the point that they no longer sin in that area?

Take looking at porn for example (that's just an example...others could include overeating, laziness, not getting out of bed in a timely fashion, etc.).

One may well repent from each of these things and not intend to do it again and even take steps to avoid them and at the next temptation or point of weakness (when they might be upset about something unrelated to the sin or otherwise weak) they fall at the turn of a dime.

If Jesus paid for ALL their sins and they are absolutely completely forgiven (based on trusting in Christ and turning their life over to Him in unconditional surrender at one point) and if that does not motivate them enough to stop falling into temptation then what will?

If the fear of falling into hell as a result of ALL sin being paid for is no longer a fear that a Christian needs to be concerned with then what will motivate a Christian to stop sinning altogether, resisting sin even to the point of shedding blood?

Carlos

#6
carlos123

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To answer your last question: The love of Christ motivates me not to want to sin.


Fair enough but if I may ask you a rather personal question (feel free to not answer if you don't want to)...

Are there areas of sin in your life where you fall where you know that something is sin but where you keep falling again and again over time?

If the love of Christ motivates you to not want to sin why do you keep sinning in those areas?

Carlos

#7
ENOCH2010

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If He didn't I am in big trouble, because they're isn't anything I can offer to pay for mine.


So if I may pick your brain a bit Enoch (don't know what else to call you)...

If Jesus paid for ALL your sins at one time forever, and you have come to accept that through the Gospel...what motivates you to not sin?

Carlos

I would say the thought of what the Lord went through before, and at the crucifixion.I feel so sorry that because of me,He had to go through all that pain.When I think about the trial and crucifixion,I am amazed that anyone would go through that for me. The reason I try not to sin,is to hopefully lesson His pain and lesson my feelings of guilt.

#8
carlos123

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I would say the thought of what the Lord went through before, and at the crucifixion.I feel so sorry that because of me,He had to go through all that pain.When I think about the trial and crucifixion,I am amazed that anyone would go through that for me. The reason I try not to sin,is to hopefully lesson His pain and lesson my feelings of guilt.


So Enoch if I may be so bold as to pick your brain just a tad more (both for my own sake and the friend I was talking to this morning who I sent a link to this thread to)....

Do you still sin in something you know is sin?

I assume you are a believer who believes Jesus paid for ALL your sin and that you have chosen to believe and act on that by faith by surrendering your life to the Lord.

If that is so...then according to the Word you have POWER over all sin in your life. You are never tempted beyond what you are able. You CAN fight sin and not fall.

So do you still sin at times?

If so then the love of Christ is apparently not enough to motivate you to not sin by itself. What will motivate you to STOP sinning entirely in things that you know are sin, that God is displeased with, and that you have power over?

Feel free not to answer and I certainly do not mean to put you on the spot but I think it would be highly instructive and profitable to hear whatever you may be willing to say in answer to that.

Carlos

#9
ENOCH2010

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I would say the thought of what the Lord went through before, and at the crucifixion.I feel so sorry that because of me,He had to go through all that pain.When I think about the trial and crucifixion,I am amazed that anyone would go through that for me. The reason I try not to sin,is to hopefully lesson His pain and lesson my feelings of guilt.


So Enoch if I may be so bold as to pick your brain just a tad more (both for my own sake and the friend I was talking to this morning who I sent a link to this thread to)....

Do you still sin in something you know is sin?

I assume you are a believer who believes Jesus paid for ALL your sin and that you have chosen to believe and act on that by faith by surrendering your life to the Lord.

If that is so...then according to the Word you have POWER over all sin in your life. You are never tempted beyond what you are able. You CAN fight sin and not fall.

So do you still sin at times?

If so then the love of Christ is apparently not enough to motivate you to not sin by itself. What will motivate you to STOP sinning entirely in things that you know are sin, that God is displeased with, and that you have power over?

Feel free not to answer and I certainly do not mean to put you on the spot but I think it would be highly instructive and profitable to hear whatever you may be willing to say in answer to that.

Carlos

I think as long as we are in these corruptible bodies we are capable of sinning.I will no longer sin when I get my new body,the one like Christs.

#10
OneLight

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So what would you say to someone who believes that Jesus paid for ALL their sin but who is not motivated enough by that to fight temptation in areas of weakness to the point that they no longer sin in that area?

Take looking at porn for example (that's just an example...others could include overeating, laziness, not getting out of bed in a timely fashion, etc.).

One may well repent from each of these things and not intend to do it again and even take steps to avoid them and at the next temptation or point of weakness (when they might be upset about something unrelated to the sin or otherwise weak) they fall at the turn of a dime.

If Jesus paid for ALL their sins and they are absolutely completely forgiven (based on trusting in Christ and turning their life over to Him in unconditional surrender at one point) and if that does not motivate them enough to stop falling into temptation then what will?

If the fear of falling into hell as a result of ALL sin being paid for is no longer a fear that a Christian needs to be concerned with then what will motivate a Christian to stop sinning altogether, resisting sin even to the point of shedding blood?

Carlos

Just believing in Jesus is not enough.

James 2:19
You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

One has to accept Christ as their Lord and Savior, allowing His Spirit to change them. Without repentance, is one really saved?

#11
joi

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To answer your last question: The love of Christ motivates me not to want to sin.


Fair enough but if I may ask you a rather personal question (feel free to not answer if you don't want to)...

Are there areas of sin in your life where you fall where you know that something is sin but where you keep falling again and again over time?

If the love of Christ motivates you to not want to sin why do you keep sinning in those areas?

Carlos


I sin because I am a sinner and there is nothing I, personally, can do to remove myself from that fact.

At birth each of us come predisposed to be sinners because it was so decreed when Eve, then Adam fell from God's grace. This sin nature is passed to each baby, through the male, and is why Jesus could be born of a human mother, but not of a human father. No blood crosses from the mother to the baby during gestation.

Matthew 1 tells us that Mary was found with child of the Holy Ghost, so the Father of Jesus was not a man whose blood contained sin. This makes the blood of Christ sinless, and is why He gave Himself to be our sacrifice, thereby paying our sin debt. A debt our sinful blood could never have paid.

You ask me about my personal sin. What about yours? Why have you not stopped sinning? I will answer that for
both of us. It is because we are equally sinners of the worst sort who can not help self, so when we sin we turn to our Savior, confess our sin and get forgiveness. I believe that at salvation we are forgiven all our sins up to that point in time. From that point forward we must confess our known sins, as in 1 John 1:9.

I think each of us have an area of weakness, some of us have many of them, and when we are tempted we sin.
Each time this happens we must resolve to do better when the next time of temptation comes around. We must resolve not to sin in this area again, and we ask God to give us the courage of our convictions and to see us through the next time, instead of seeing us fail yet again.

Motivation for not sinning? Thinking of having to come face to face with my redeemer in a soiled state. He gave His all for me and I want to do that for Him.

1 Corinthians 9:27
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

#12
carlos123

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Just believing in Jesus is not enough.

James 2:19
You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

One has to accept Christ as their Lord and Savior, allowing His Spirit to change them. Without repentance, is one really saved?


I too do not believe (no pun intended) that "belief" of the kind spoken about in James is not enough. That kind of belief is more akin to intellectual assent to certain truths without a corresponding willingness to submit to those truths and their full implications. The fullest implication being that God is God and that you are not such that you allow God to be God in your life. That you come to God through Christ and reconcile yourself to Him to be in right relationship to Him. One cannot enter into right relationship with God without repentance from known sin.

The problem is that the Bible does seem to indicate that the sin's forgiven are those that one has committed up to the point of salvation only. I mean on a cursory reading of what it says.

For example...take this verse...(highlighting is mine)...

Romans 3:23 (NASB)

...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;


Mind you I don't believe that to be the case (I believe He paid for ALL sin for all time) but I can see where some people might think that only their past sin's are forgiven at conversion. I am having a hard time finding clear support for the belief that ALL sin (past, present, and future) are paid for at conversion.

Carlos

#13
carlos123

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Hi Joi (I just now increased my font and realized your name is not Jol :)...I need better glasses I think).

At birth each of us come predisposed to be sinners because it was so decreed when Eve, then Adam fell from God's grace. This sin nature is passed to each baby, through the male, and is why Jesus could be born of a human mother, but not of a human father. No blood crosses from the mother to the baby during gestation.


Very interesting. I never knew that about the mother's blood and the babies not mixing at gestation.

You ask me about my personal sin. What about yours? Why have you not stopped sinning? I will answer that for
both of us.


Thanks for answering for us both Joi. Though I have no problem adding to what you said. I mean that's a fair question for me too since I asked it.

It is because we are equally sinners of the worst sort who can not help self...


Not sure about that Joi. I mean Christians have died through the cross. They no longer live. They are as dead as a door nail. The "they" being their sinful nature. The one who now lives is Christ in them. Sinless, all loving, righteous Jesus. Christians now have the life of Christ coursing through their veins (so to speak) and do not have to sin any longer just as Jesus does not have to sin.

So I don't think it's that we cannot help ourselves. We can help sinning. I think the Bible is quite clear about that if I am not mistaken.

However...we (I) are (am) weak in various areas of the flesh that still clings to us. We are dead (through association with the death of Christ) but we also live on in the sense that our dead sinful nature still clings to us (can you picture someone walking around with one leg that is alive and another completely dead). We continue living in a dead body that has no spiritual life in it at all while we are also alive, as alive as Jesus, in our spirits.

The reason we (I) still sin I think is that when we are tempted we have not as yet grown in maturity so as to believe through the temptation that we are in fact dead as a doornail to sin.

Maturity being the consistent application of God's truths as we walk out our life in Him.

..., so when we sin we turn to our Savior, confess our sin and get forgiveness. I believe that at salvation we are forgiven all our sins up to that point in time. From that point forward we must confess our known sins, as in 1 John 1:9.


So what happens if you do not confess? Are you still forgiven?

Do you absolutely need to confess to be forgiven? I mean for those of us that believe ALL our sin is forgiven once for all time through the cross...well...why confess? I mean from the standpoint of forgiveness. Confession is a great thing for the well being of our walk before God so I am not knocking it from that standpoint. Just saying that if ALL of our sins are forgiven why confess to be forgiven?

Makes no sense to me.

For you it makes sense Joi since you believe only the sins you have committed up to conversion are forgiven but not the one's you commit afterwards.

For me, as a believer who believes ALL sin has been forgiven at conversion, such confession makes no sense.

I think each of us have an area of weakness, some of us have many of them, and when we are tempted we sin.
Each time this happens we must resolve to do better when the next time of temptation comes around. We must resolve not to sin in this area again, and we ask God to give us the courage of our convictions and to see us through the next time, instead of seeing us fail yet again.


May I suggest that a more biblical approach is to believe at the point of temptation that...well...that we are dead? As in that our sinful nature is as dead as a doornail?

We don't need to try and do better as if we are not alive to God through Christ. Christ did it all and it is His life that lives out in us now through the Holy Spirit.

Trying doesn't work.

Believing does. Well a belief that acts out what we say we believe at least.

Carlos

#14
exrockstar

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So what happens if you do not confess? Are you still forgiven?

Do you absolutely need to confess to be forgiven? I mean for those of us that believe ALL our sin is forgiven once for all time through the cross...well...why confess? I mean from the standpoint of forgiveness. Confession is a great thing for the well being of our walk before God so I am not knocking it from that standpoint. Just saying that if ALL of our sins are forgiven why confess to be forgiven?

Makes no sense to me.

Carlos

You are confessing to be in fellowship. You are praying to God the father in Jesus name.
You still have to walk around everyday so prayer is needed. As you pray, ask for forgiveness of sin so that you may presently cleansed.

Your question is similar of "why did Jesus say 'why have you forsaken my Father' " as He died on the cross.

#15
carlos123

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Okay...

Here's a verse that shows strongly that Jesus died for ALL sin (past, present, and future) all rolled into one at the cross.

For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.


Requires a bit of explanation though. Here is my attempt at such.

What is the requirement of the Law? Perfect righteousness. Without flaw. Without one sin. All the time.

When Jesus went to the cross He became a likeness of our sinful nature, the root of all sin in us. He was considered as a likeness of us. Of our sinful nature. He became our substitute. Instead of the real thing, us, on that cross. Jesus lay there on that cross. In our place...in our likeness as a sinful nature for us. In our place.

And what He was for us was condemned! In our place. Completely condemned. Every sin. For every person. He paid for.

So that righteousness, His righteousness might be credited to us. To those who are Christians.

Now notice that it says to those "who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit".

Meaning that if we are orientating our life around the flesh and sin it doesn't apply.

But as a Christian we orient our lives around God and righteousness, not sin!

Which ties into what I said earlier that our supposed faith in Christ MUST be of a kind that is more than intellectual assent. It MUST be of a kind that is willing to act on what we say we believe (that Christ died for our sins) and be reconciled to God, repenting from known sin, and starting to walk before Him as righteous persons.

Now some people focus on the not walking by the flesh part and assume that means that we can never sin. But a little later Paul says...

However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.


Walking according to the Spirit is BOTH a result of our position (where the Spirit is in us by faith in God through the Gospel) AND of our practical willingness to put faith in God into action by orientating our lives around God and righteousness.

That's not faith AND works. That's faith of a kind that saves which is more than mere intellectual assent.

Jesus paid for ALL sin. The very seat of sin in our lives was crucified in association with Him on the cross and rendered powerless. It was condemned and put to death through His likeness of us. That we might be SET free!! To live for God.

ALL the sin of a Christian is completely paid for! Past, present, and future.

Carlos

#16
carlos123

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Your question is similar of "why did Jesus say 'why have you forsaken my Father' " as He died on the cross.


Well I would think the answer to that is that...well...He was indeed forsaken. By His Father.

When He became us on that cross in our likeness and took our place to be condemned for us.

Carlos

#17
exrockstar

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Your question is similar of "why did Jesus say 'why have you forsaken my Father' " as He died on the cross.


Well I would think the answer to that is that...well...He was indeed forsaken. By His Father.

When He became us on that cross in our likeness and took our place to be condemned for us.

Carlos

When you carry sin you are separated. You're sins have been paid but you still have to move forward in time. Either carry sin and be separated or not.

#18
gdemoss

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I personally believe the Bible is clear in saying that His death was for ALL sin once for ALL time. When I say ALL I mean exactly that. ALL. As in past, present, and future. ALL.

What say ye?

Carlos


While the blood of Christ was shed to pay for sin; it is able to pay the price for ALL sin ever committed, but does not do so as there are those who have sinned who will be held accountable for their sin. And this includes people who are Christians.

Let me get this out of the way first: Jesus blood is enough to pay for the sins of the whole world at any point in time, both past, present and future.

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

But that does not mean that the blood will be applied to sin arbitrarily through mental assent to who Christ is and what he has done. The application of the blood to pay for sin is conditional. For example;

1 Jon 1;7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

These conditions for salvation have never changed from the time when they were presented in the Garden of Eden to Adam and Eve. Salvation has always been obediently abiding in the light you have received and the promise of a Savior. Depending upon when and where you were born the details of what has been revealed of the entire message increases.

What is normally presented to an unbeliever as part of the gospel message is actually a warning to believers to serve Christ and not sin.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

This warning was given in response to the question put forth "shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace?" or paraphrased into modern English idiom "Can we really get away with continuing to serve sin instead of God because of his grace?". The answer is No. To serve sin is to die. To serve God through receiving Christ as Lord the righteous standard by which we walk is life.

Please don't confuse this with sinless perfectionism as Christians deal with sin in their bodies and start out as babes in Christ but grow into a complete maturity in Christ later. For this cause we know:

1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Some mistakenly believe that we can intentionally sin regularly after we have had knowledge of Christ and continue returning as long as we confess our sin. That we can go out and fornicate with prostitutes in Las Vegas on Friday and return to church on Sunday with a repentant heart confessing our sin and be accepted. The proof text for this is usually:

1 Jon 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

What the individual who sins and returns using this theory doesn't usually understand is that John is presenting the initial gospel message here and not instructing his children on how to deal with sins that happen after receiving the message.

  • 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
    • introducing The Gospel Message
  • 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
    • claiming to be a Christian but continuing in sin does not equal salvation.
  • 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
    • Repenting from sin and walking with God and his children equals salvation through the blood of Christ.
  • 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    • Everyone has original sin and sin dwells within men. To reject this does not equal salvation.
  • 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    • If we agree with God about what he says is sin he does two things: 1 forgives us 2 cleanses us. The cleansing is the equivalent of deliverance from bondage to the sin but does not stop one from returning to it intentionally or out of weakness.
  • 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
    • No one can claim to have never allowed sin to manifest itself in the world through them.

John explains his purpose for writing this introduction in Chapter 2 Verse 1.

1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

John's letter is written to a group of believers that consist of what he calls 'little children', 'young men' and 'fathers'. The opening of his letter was directed upon those who were babes in Christ who recently received the gospel message. He wrote to them with the purpose in mind that they might not sin knowing the truth. He presents the case of the advocate with the Father for those who fall into sin in a hypothetical statement of chance not a deliberate statement and actually should be rendered 'if any man might sin'. Every verse in this letter must be understood within the context of the whole letter as well as the whole of scripture. The same letter that has said the above also says, " Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." Where the verbs for sin indicate continual action and present action respectively.

The book of 1 John is an excellent study on sin in the believers life, when taken in context. Unfortunately many 'divide the word of truth' using the cut/paste feature to craft doctrine that explains their current condition is acceptable unto God to their own destruction because it removes the motivation to quit sinning.

All of the above considered we need to have a direct understanding of how sin relates to salvation in our day and age. Salvation is absolutely by the grace of God as every person who has ever lived or will ever live outside of Jesus takes part in original sin as well as has committed at least one sin of their own. So no amount of works/deeds can change that. The blood of Christ applied is the only way. The blood of Christ is said to be applied to those who walk in light and not darkness. Therefore, everyone must walk according to the light they have been given by God. In other words, when God has spoken, they must believe God and have works/deeds that justify the faith in what he has said to be true.

Hebrews 10:26-31 is a picture of someone who refuses to walk in the light they have been given.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Notice the reference to those under the law of Moses who refused to walk in the light they had been given. Then the statement that we, who have receive a much more abundance of light in Christ, deserve worse punishment than they. All compare to those who are straight up Gods enemies showing there will be no difference in the dealings for each.

My take is that one who has believed that they can sin and get away with it (lasciviousness) is one who has never believed the true gospel and experienced the conversion. Love is obedience unto God.

Once one has been exposed to the divine nature of selflessness, they cannot help but make a choice. Either it is the right way to live and every command of God in scripture to be followed or it is not. Light or Darkness. Life or Death. We choose.

The blood can pay for all sin but justice won't allow it.

In Jesus Name,

#19
carlos123

carlos123

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Here's another good verse I just found!

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.


He became like us in our sinful nature on the cross, took our place, that we might become as righteous as Jesus in position.

That position also being tied to a new orientation around God and righteousness.

We do not get the position through the cross without entrusting ourselves to that form of teaching found in the Gospel. No position without taking on a new orientation around God and righteousness!

If we do not orient ourselves in line with the truth of the Gospel (forgiveness and an open door to reconciliation with God) then we do not have saving faith.

Sin was not paid by Jesus piecemeal. He became for us the very sinful nature that we are (at least in likeness). The root of sin, our sinful nature, will ALL the sin inherent in it was crucified with Christ.

ALL sin as found in our sinful nature.

Was condemned.

Carlos

#20
gdemoss

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Here's another good verse I just found!


2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.


He became like us in our sinful nature on the cross, took our place, that we might become as righteous as Jesus in position.

That position also being tied to a new orientation around God and righteousness.

We do not get the position through the cross without entrusting ourselves to that form of teaching found in the Gospel. No position without taking on a new orientation around God and righteousness!

If we do not orient ourselves in line with the truth of the Gospel (forgiveness and an open door to reconciliation with God) then we do not have saving faith.

Sin was not paid by Jesus piecemeal. He became for us the very sinful nature that we are (at least in likeness). The root of sin, our sinful nature, will ALL the sin inherent in it was crucified with Christ.

ALL sin as found in our sinful nature.

Was condemned.

Carlos


Excellent verse Carlos. I would like to point out something to consider.

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

"we might be made"

first notice that it is only a possibility "might" this is due to the 'subjunctive' mood of the verb. But more importantly is the 'voice' of the verb. It is in the 'middle' voice which means the subject is preforming the action of the verb in their own interest or upon themselves.

We -> subject - might make ourselves -> righteous - by putting on him (as Paul always instructs us to do).

In Jesus Name,

Gary




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