Jump to content

christian forums

Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Forums

Welcome to Worthy Christian Forums
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Israel's "Alleged" Temple by Jack Kinsella

- - - - -

This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
34 replies to this topic

#21
gdemoss

gdemoss

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,957 posts

I am amazed as to how BB can stand up to the rest of the whole population here and tell us how we ignore so much and how wrong "ALL" of us are. amazing indeed.


While I agree that BB is off in left field and needs to come back to reality, the notion that one is opposed to all and still right is nothing new but actually something that is almost of regular occurance in scripture. I must seriously consider for truth anyone who has any claim even if nobody is agreeing with them as Noah and Lot come to mind and we are in days such as theirs. Perilous times indeed.

Gary

#22
other one

other one

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,525 posts


I am amazed as to how BB can stand up to the rest of the whole population here and tell us how we ignore so much and how wrong "ALL" of us are. amazing indeed.


While I agree that BB is off in left field and needs to come back to reality, the notion that one is opposed to all and still right is nothing new but actually something that is almost of regular occurance in scripture. I must seriously consider for truth anyone who has any claim even if nobody is agreeing with them as Noah and Lot come to mind and we are in days such as theirs. Perilous times indeed.

Gary


yeah, but keep in mind that I've been considering this same thing from the same person for nearly ten years

#23
gdemoss

gdemoss

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,957 posts



I am amazed as to how BB can stand up to the rest of the whole population here and tell us how we ignore so much and how wrong "ALL" of us are. amazing indeed.


While I agree that BB is off in left field and needs to come back to reality, the notion that one is opposed to all and still right is nothing new but actually something that is almost of regular occurance in scripture. I must seriously consider for truth anyone who has any claim even if nobody is agreeing with them as Noah and Lot come to mind and we are in days such as theirs. Perilous times indeed.

Gary


yeah, but keep in mind that I've been considering this same thing from the same person for nearly ten years


will do :) I pray the Lord help you to persevere.

Gary

#24
Bold Believer

Bold Believer

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,628 posts



Rev 19:2- - and the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his bejalf. With these signs he deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Rev 13 describes both the beast and the false prophet. Both are individuals, both were cast alive into the Lake of Fire.

In Christ
Montana Marv


We know however that the Beast was Rome, the last of Daniel's four beasts. Rome is personified by Nero (who died of a head wound...Chapter 13 of Rev). The False Prophet was the Sanhedrin, personified by the High Priest and his cronies. It is they who were cast in to Ge-enna.


That is the most laughable and sloppy approach to Scripture I have ever seen. You just arbitrarily make stuff up. Nero did not die of a head wound. The person depicted as dying from the head would was rased to life in three days. Nero didn't did come back from the dead, so you're wrong about that. From where do you derive the noation that hte false prophet was the Sanhedrin???? I would love to see you prove that from Scripture.


Oh he didn't, did he? Let's see what a Roman historian has to say:


Suetonius on Nero's Suicide
Finally, when his companions unanimously insisted on his trying to escape from the miserable fate threatening him, he ordered them to dig a grave at once, and then collect any pieces of marble that they could find and fetch wood and water for the disposal of the corps. As they bustled about obediently he muttered through his tears: "Dead! And so great an artist!"
A runner brought him a letter from Phaon. Nero tore it from the man's hands and read that, having been declared a public enemy by the Senate, he would be punished in 'ancient style' when arrested. He asked what 'ancient style' meant, and learned that the executioners stripped their victim naked, thrust his head into a wooden fork, and then flogged him to death with sticks. In terror he snatched up the two daggers which he brought along and tried their points; but threw them down again, protesting that the final hour had not yet come.
Then he begged Sporus to weep and mourn for him, but also begged one of the other three to set him an example by committing suicide first. He kept moaning about his cowardice, and muttering: 'How ugly and vulgar my life has become!' And then in Greek: 'This certainly is no credit to Nero, no credit at all,' and: 'Come pull yourself together, man!' By this time a troop of cavalry who had orders to take him alive were coming up the road. Nero gasped: 'Hark to the sound I hear! It is hooves of galloping horses.' Then, with the help of his scribe, Epaphroditos, he stabbed himself in the throat and was already half dead when a cavalry officer entered, pretending to have rushed to his rescue, and staunched the wound with his cloak. Nero muttered: 'Too late! But, ah, what fidelity!' He died, with his eyes glazed and bulging from their sockets, a sight which horrified everybody present. He had made his companions promise, whatever happened, not to let his head be cut off, but to have him buried all in one piece. Galba's freedman Icelus, who had been imprisoned when the first news came of the revolt and was now at liberty again, granted this indulgence.

In your haste to make your desire of rapturism and pre-millennialism correct, you deny history.

To your second allegation: The Scripture of Rev 13 doesn't say that the one who dies by the head wound comes back to life after 3 days. Here is the Biblical text:

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Now, does anyone see in this text that the wounded head comes back to life? I read all the way to the end of the chapter, and there is nothing that states or implies that the wounded head comes back to life after 3 days. So again, we have yet another false assumption. The test only states that the deadly wound was healed. I have explained this in previous discussions. An emperor (in this case, Nero) embodied the Empire. Without a leader, the Roman Empire was dying. After the death of Nero came the Year of Four Emperors. The Roman Empire was racked with civil war and political infighting. The emperor who came out of the pile was none other than the father of General Titus. The Roman Empire was preserved by the advent of another emperor and thus the deadly wound was healed. The wound was to the EMPIRE, not Nero, although Nero was 666.

Now to the False Prophet (capitalized for clarity). The False Prophet exercises the authority of the first beast. So then, if the first beast is the Roman Empire, the Land-Beast has the authority behind it of the Roman Empire. What entity in Israel exercised the authority of the Roman Empire? The High Priest and his cronies. Luke (in Acts) tells us that Paul had letters from the High Priest and the elders to bring Believers from Damascus to Jerusalem to be punished. The Council (Sanhedrin) had the very authority of Rome to bring Believers to Jerusalem for punishment. Who had the authority to 'bring down fire from heaven'? The High Priest and those junior to him. And by causing Israel to accept the authority of the Beast to persecute Messianic believers, he caused them to receive the Mark of the Beast in their right hand or forehead (what they do/what they think).

Compare the Mark of the Beast concept with Deuteronomy 6:8 and you can see the similarities. The idea of binding (Qaphar) means to physically attach or mentally league with. Since apostate Israel refused to believe in their Messiah, God causes them to instead assent to the Beast.

#25
shiloh357

shiloh357

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 31,008 posts

Then, with the help of his scribe, Epaphroditos, he stabbed himself in the throat and was already half dead when a cavalry officer entered, pretending to have rushed to his rescue, and staunched the wound with his cloak. Nero muttered: 'Too late! But, ah, what fidelity!' He died, with his eyes glazed and bulging from their sockets, a sight which horrified everybody present. He had made his companions promise, whatever happened, not to let his head be cut off, but to have him buried all in one piece. Galba's freedman Icelus, who had been imprisoned when the first news came of the revolt and was now at liberty again, granted this indulgence.

In your haste to make your desire of rapturism and pre-millennialism correct, you deny history.


How is stabbing one'e self in teh throat the same as a "head wound???" Your throat/neck is not the same as the head. Your neck is recognzied as a separate body part from the head. This is just another attempt at stretching history to make it fit your eschatology. The fact is that Nero did not die of a head wound and I would have to pretty lame or desparate to think that the throat is part of the head. You are really stretching things here. I don't deny history. YOU are trying to revise it to suit your goofy eschatology.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Now, does anyone see in this text that the wounded head comes back to life? I read all the way to the end of the chapter, and there is nothing that states or implies that the wounded head comes back to life after 3 days. So again, we have yet another false assumption. The test only states that the deadly wound was healed.


The fact that it was wound unto death and it was healed shows a miracle took place. Healing the wound without reversing its deadly consequence would not cause wonder. Raising up someone who thought to be dead would cause wonder.

The False Prophet exercises the authority of the first beast. So then, if the first beast is the Roman Empire, the Land-Beast has the authority behind it of the Roman Empire. What entity in Israel exercised the authority of the Roman Empire?


The problem is that the false prophet didn't simply exercise authority in Israel. This is global, not limited to Israel. The Sandhedrin enforced Jewish law with the permisson of Rome, so long as they kept the peace and suppressed rebellion. The Sanhedrin did not exercise Roman authority.

#26
Bold Believer

Bold Believer

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,628 posts
Danielzk wrote:

Simple concept ,,"and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast." the reference here is that the worlds people are amazed that the dead came back to life and with great power and authority ...
No Daniel, as I mentioned in my previous post, coming back to life is never mentioned in the passage. That has been inserted by people who are reading something else into the text that isn't there.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshiped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Remember also the world wonders after the Beast. The Beast is the Empire, not Nero. It was the Empire that went into disarray before a new Emperor. Almost the entire civilized world was ruled by Rome at the time and the Empire's subjects marveled that the Empire didn't crumble to pieces at the death of a major leader. "Nobody is greater than Rome!" is the sentiment here. "Nobody can make war against the Empire (which is just what the factions were doing)."

people are often called clinically dead and are revived and continue to live life...but all the worlds people do not worship them as they do the man of sin
The man of sin? Really? Where is the man of sin mentioned here? Here we go again, putting something into the text which is NOT THERE.
Christ Jesus throws the antichrist ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE that burns forever nonstop. Nero was not cast alive into the Lake of Fire ,, nero was not the antichrist ,,
Well, you got one right. Nero was not the antichrist. The reason Nero is not the antichrist is because John didn't use the term antichrist until somewhere between 85 and 96, nearly 25-30 years after Nero's death on June 9, 68.
,when all scriptures are included it reveals that the man of sin( which at that moment who is very well liked by all the people who helped this man get into office to hold his position ; and confirms, is involved with bringing to pass the 7 year peace treaty with Israel , the man is very popluar with the country's people , they really like him a lot , as he has not suffered the fatal woundyet ) then after he does he becomes a evil man with satan incarnate within him ..Now he begins his evil rule and demands all people of all nations ,and all laguages worship him,,,nero did not rule over every nation every language on earth, Nero did not do that ,,,
Every Roman emperor ruled over every nation and language in the civilized world.
Where did anyone bring real physical consuming fire down from heaven that was in Nero power.
It was not within Nero's authority to bring down fire from heaven, it was within the authority of the Land-Beast. "Bringing down fire from heaven" is a euphemism for worship. It comes from I Kings 1:10 and 12, where Elijah says: If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty."

Revelation 13
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Elijah the Prophet (1 Kings 18....a literal consuming fire !)had a contest to see who could do it , and only HE did with God providing this result ,, no one else was able to it .....in Revelation it is satan doing it to counterfiet the LORD in order to convince the people that he is God ,, it is part of the deception that God allows to punish the wicked non believers that reject Christ and show that Only Christ Jesus is LORD
Correct. Which was proof that God was behind it, allowing the deception that the Roman Emperors should be worshiped.
You still cannot see that the One World Government for the entire earth is forming ,,,all events preceeding the coming of Christ are in process now,,.. a digital monetary system is being established where ALL people on Earth will have to partake of a digital numbering system in order to buy or sell anything,,,it is happening now ,, to make this 'earth wide over' system takes time ,but is rapidily coming to pass,, in this generation,,,and all, the other events that must take place to fulfill scripture are getting close to being finished; as well as some things that have not begun yet ...things you refuse to acknowledge simply cause they totally defeat this crazy notion you have ,, you insist on ignoring many scriptures that defeat this crazy idea you have ,,,it would be simple logic that IF you really want the true truth you would acknowledge ALL scripture,, but you flat out refuse to

LOL. Governments are collapsing worldwide. Europe is coming apart at the seams, the Middle East is aflame with inter-nicene conflict, the United States is tottering on financial collapse and you say a one world government is coming? You can't get two countries on the planet anywhere to agree on jack-spit. The idea that a one world government is coming is an absolute joke. The only one-world anything out here is Gog leading Magog to battle against the Church.

#27
Bold Believer

Bold Believer

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,628 posts

Then, with the help of his scribe, Epaphroditos, he stabbed himself in the throat and was already half dead when a cavalry officer entered, pretending to have rushed to his rescue, and staunched the wound with his cloak. Nero muttered: 'Too late! But, ah, what fidelity!' He died, with his eyes glazed and bulging from their sockets, a sight which horrified everybody present. He had made his companions promise, whatever happened, not to let his head be cut off, but to have him buried all in one piece. Galba's freedman Icelus, who had been imprisoned when the first news came of the revolt and was now at liberty again, granted this indulgence.

In your haste to make your desire of rapturism and pre-millennialism correct, you deny history.


How is stabbing one'e self in teh throat the same as a "head wound???" Your throat/neck is not the same as the head. Your neck is recognzied as a separate body part from the head. This is just another attempt at stretching history to make it fit your eschatology. The fact is that Nero did not die of a head wound and I would have to pretty lame or desparate to think that the throat is part of the head. You are really stretching things here. I don't deny history. YOU are trying to revise it to suit your goofy eschatology.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Now, does anyone see in this text that the wounded head comes back to life? I read all the way to the end of the chapter, and there is nothing that states or implies that the wounded head comes back to life after 3 days. So again, we have yet another false assumption. The test only states that the deadly wound was healed.


The fact that it was wound unto death and it was healed shows a miracle took place. Healing the wound without reversing its deadly consequence would not cause wonder. Raising up someone who thought to be dead would cause wonder.

The False Prophet exercises the authority of the first beast. So then, if the first beast is the Roman Empire, the Land-Beast has the authority behind it of the Roman Empire. What entity in Israel exercised the authority of the Roman Empire?


The problem is that the false prophet didn't simply exercise authority in Israel. This is global, not limited to Israel. The Sandhedrin enforced Jewish law with the permisson of Rome, so long as they kept the peace and suppressed rebellion. The Sanhedrin did not exercise Roman authority.


1. At the time of the writing of Revelation, the head WAS considered to be to the neck. Whether it is today or not is irrelevant.
2. You just contradicted yourself. You say the Sanhedrin enforced Jewish law with the permission of Rome, then say the Sanhedrin didn't exercise Roman authority. IF ROME DIDN'T GIVE PERMISSION, THE SANHEDRIN WOULDN'T HAVE HAD ANY AUTHORITY. The fact that Rome was allowing them to 'enforce Jewish law' is positive proof that they were doing it BY Roman authority.

#28
joi

joi

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,149 posts

I am amazed as to how BB can stand up to the rest of the whole population here and tell us how we ignore so much and how wrong "ALL" of us are. amazing indeed.


While I have no idea that BB is correct, I am reminded that no one in the antediluvian world but Noah and seven others
believed God, at that time. Food for thought.

#29
joi

joi

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,149 posts

Abbas responded with the promise that there will be “no peace, no security and no stability unless the occupation, settlers and settlements are gone from Jerusalem.”


Isn't it a shame he does not recognize him self as the interloper in this situation? He is correct, so he and his cronies should leave. NOW!

#30
Bold Believer

Bold Believer

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,628 posts


Simple concept ,,"and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast." the reference here is that the worlds people are amazed that the dead came back to life and with great power and authority ...
No Daniel, as I mentioned in my previous post, coming back to life is never mentioned in the passage. That has been inserted by people who are reading something else into the text that isn't there.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshiped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Remember also the world wonders after the Beast. The Beast is the Empire, not Nero. It was the Empire that went into disarray before a new Emperor. Almost the entire civilized world was ruled by Rome at the time and the Empire's subjects marveled that the Empire didn't crumble to pieces at the death of a major leader. "Nobody is greater than Rome!" is the sentiment here. "Nobody can make war against the Empire (which is just what the factions were doing)."

people are often called clinically dead and are revived and continue to live life...but all the worlds people do not worship them as they do the man of sin
The man of sin? Really? Where is the man of sin mentioned here? Here we go again, putting something into the text which is NOT THERE.
Christ Jesus throws the antichrist ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE that burns forever nonstop. Nero was not cast alive into the Lake of Fire ,, nero was not the antichrist ,,
Well, you got one right. Nero was not the antichrist. The reason Nero is not the antichrist is because John didn't use the term antichrist until somewhere between 85 and 96, nearly 25-30 years after Nero's death on June 9, 68.
,when all scriptures are included it reveals that the man of sin( which at that moment who is very well liked by all the people who helped this man get into office to hold his position ; and confirms, is involved with bringing to pass the 7 year peace treaty with Israel , the man is very popluar with the country's people , they really like him a lot , as he has not suffered the fatal woundyet ) then after he does he becomes a evil man with satan incarnate within him ..Now he begins his evil rule and demands all people of all nations ,and all laguages worship him,,,nero did not rule over every nation every language on earth, Nero did not do that ,,,
Every Roman emperor ruled over every nation and language in the civilized world.
Where did anyone bring real physical consuming fire down from heaven that was in Nero power.
It was not within Nero's authority to bring down fire from heaven, it was within the authority of the Land-Beast. "Bringing down fire from heaven" is a euphemism for worship. It comes from I Kings 1:10 and 12, where Elijah says: If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty."

Revelation 13
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Elijah the Prophet (1 Kings 18....a literal consuming fire !)had a contest to see who could do it , and only HE did with God providing this result ,, no one else was able to it .....in Revelation it is satan doing it to counterfiet the LORD in order to convince the people that he is God ,, it is part of the deception that God allows to punish the wicked non believers that reject Christ and show that Only Christ Jesus is LORD
Correct. Which was proof that God was behind it, allowing the deception that the Roman Emperors should be worshiped.
You still cannot see that the One World Government for the entire earth is forming ,,,all events preceeding the coming of Christ are in process now,,.. a digital monetary system is being established where ALL people on Earth will have to partake of a digital numbering system in order to buy or sell anything,,,it is happening now ,, to make this 'earth wide over' system takes time ,but is rapidily coming to pass,, in this generation,,,and all, the other events that must take place to fulfill scripture are getting close to being finished; as well as some things that have not begun yet ...things you refuse to acknowledge simply cause they totally defeat this crazy notion you have ,, you insist on ignoring many scriptures that defeat this crazy idea you have ,,,it would be simple logic that IF you really want the true truth you would acknowledge ALL scripture,, but you flat out refuse to

LOL. Governments are collapsing worldwide. Europe is coming apart at the seams, the Middle East is aflame with inter-nicene conflict, the United States is tottering on financial collapse and you say a one world government is coming? You can't get two countries on the planet anywhere to agree on jack-spit. The idea that a one world government is coming is an absolute joke. The only one-world anything out here is Gog leading Magog to battle against the Church.

Many things that you do not grasp properly ,,,the antichrist is a powerful person ,that has total control over the governmental system , no one but God has more power...there is NO reason whatsoever that would compel a man of that level of power to commit suicide ...the reason nero committed suicide is soley to avoid public humiliation of being flogged to death by men , appointed by the senate ,, it was nero cowardly way out of being publicly humiliated by being put to death by being flogged to death at the hands of others... '
often the beast is a kingdom or government , but sometimes satan is reffered to as the beast,,
the horns of the beasts are kings .. literal human kings ,, government leaders ,,it is one of the heads
the dragon is satan , also called the beast ,, you are trying to limit the matter to scriptures that you choose and the others you choose to exclude ,,


Where did anyone bring real physical consuming fire down from heaven that was in nero power??


Revelation 13
13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Elijah the Prophet (1 Kings 18....a literal consuming fire !)had a contest to see who could do it , and only HE did with God providing this result ,, no one else was able to it .....in Revelation it is satan doing it to counterfiet the LORD in order to convince the people that he is God ,, it is part of the deception that God allows to punish the wicked non believers that reject Christ and show that Only Christ Jesus is LORD


1 Kings 18
22 Then Elijah said to them, “I am the only one of the Lord’s prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. 23 Get two bulls for us. Let Baal’s prophets choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. 24 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord. The god who answers by fire—he is God.”

Then all the people said, “What you say is good.”

25 Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose one of the bulls and prepare it first, since there are so many of you. Call on the name of your god, but do not light the fire.” 26 So they took the bull given them and prepared it.

Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon. “Baal, answer us!” they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made.

27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.” 28 So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. 29 Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.

30 Then Elijah said to all the people, “Come here to me.” They came to him, and he repaired the altar of the Lord, which had been torn down. 31 Elijah took twelve stones, one for each of the tribes descended from Jacob, to whom the word of the Lord had come, saying, “Your name shall be Israel.” 32 With the stones he built an altar in the name of the Lord, and he dug a trench around it large enough to hold two seahs[a] of seed. 33 He arranged the wood, cut the bull into pieces and laid it on the wood. Then he said to them, “Fill four large jars with water and pour it on the offering and on the wood.”

34 “Do it again,” he said, and they did it again.

“Do it a third time,” he ordered, and they did it the third time. 35 The water ran down around the altar and even filled the trench.

36 At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed: “Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command. 37 Answer me, Lord, answer me, so these people will know that you, Lord, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again.”

38 Then the fire of the Lord fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench
.


39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The Lord, he is the God; the Lord, he is the God.

simply NOT a eupenism ,,again you refuse to acknowledge what scripture teaches..

You need to truly understand the scripture is a literal fire coming down from heaven ,, not some euphemism for worship as you want to think for that is making a false assumption that is not true,, real fire came down from heaven for Elijah the prophet,, it is real and you fail to understand the meaning of
13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
very simple to understand ,, it is a literal fire that comes down from heaven "in the sight of men"

people can see with their eyes this fire coming down from heaven ,, another reason why the nations marvel/wonder after him and say :"who can wage war with him?" since there is no weaponry that can compete with a man that has such power as to bring fire down from heaven on demand


the antichrist is a man controlled by satan incarnate within him .. satan literally operating within a man, not just a demon spirit,, the man of sin...


Description of the antichrist

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.




Revelation 13
4 And they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
revelation 19
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


the antichrist..the son of perdition aka son of destruction,, the man of sin , man of lawlessness are all the same person , just various references of the same man

scripture in no way shape or form limits the matter to the "civilized world " that is your misinterpretation ,,, rather it states specificalLY Every Tribe , Every Tongue/language, Every Nation, ALL of them ,, the entire planet of nations .. your crazy idea that this whole matter of sin vs. pureness of salvation,, good vs. evil ,, the whole topic is limited to just a few nations in the eastern world is simply ludicrous ,, it pertains to 100% of ALL nations on earth,, just as Christ instructed to go out to all nations on earth to preach this gospel and make disciples of all nations..."..and then the end of the age will come" and Not beforehand....which shows that this matter has not yet been fulfilled and is still to come ,,

it has been declared by the most powerful organizations that all the worlds people be bew implanted witha RFID transponder by no later than 2017 ,, obama wants America done by 2013 ...so it is revealing that this will happen in the near future ,, alowing for tracking of people.
The one world religion is forming as well ,, but those like you refuse to see what is coming,, learn about Chrislam ,, the joining of some so called Christian churches with Islam and they allow for other religions to unite with them as well, ,, True Christianity cannot be united with any other god ,,
Just because you choose not to learn about how almost all nations on earth are NOW planning or already partners with the New World Order ,, a One world Government system ,,,and for just the reasons you stated ,.,it will all come together soon ,, those are reasons why so many nations are deciding that it be better to have a unified nation of government all united together ,, the global finanicial meltdown among other reasons are bringing nations together on this matter ,, but still you can't see with your closed eyes ,, all this is so very easy to find proof for .. but I don't have the time to show it all to you , but it is there to learn about If you actually wanted to learn of it ,


Yes, I know, I understand absolutely nothing compared to you and those like you who parrot the pre-millennial line. The Day will declare it. IN the meantime, some English grammar lessons on your part will help as your posts are often incomprehensible with their misspellings, failure to capitalize and abyssmal punctuation.

Here is the BIBLICAL description of antichrist from the ONE MAN who ever used the term:

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

#31
shiloh357

shiloh357

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 31,008 posts

1. At the time of the writing of Revelation, the head WAS considered to be to the neck. Whether it is today or not is irrelevant.
2. You just contradicted yourself. You say the Sanhedrin enforced Jewish law with the permission of Rome, then say the Sanhedrin didn't exercise Roman authority. IF ROME DIDN'T GIVE PERMISSION, THE SANHEDRIN WOULDN'T HAVE HAD ANY AUTHORITY. The fact that Rome was allowing them to 'enforce Jewish law' is positive proof that they were doing it BY Roman authority.


1. I would like to see where you get that information?? Demonstrate that the ancients considered the head to be the neck. Otherwise, you are simply revising history and making up bold-faced lies.

2. I didn't contradict myself. You are simply incompetent when it comes to history and you repeatedly demonstrate. The Sanhedrin did not exercise Roman authority. They enforced Jewish law and exercised their own authority over Israel with Roman permission. They did not exert Roman authority. They were authorized by Rome to enforce Jewish law, not Roman law.

Your attempt to make the Sanherin = The false prophet is really foolish and demonstrates how far you will go to distort facts in order to support your goofy eschatology. Try having some integrity for once instead of making junk up that has no basis in truth or reality.

#32
Bold Believer

Bold Believer

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,628 posts


1. At the time of the writing of Revelation, the head WAS considered to be to the neck. Whether it is today or not is irrelevant.
2. You just contradicted yourself. You say the Sanhedrin enforced Jewish law with the permission of Rome, then say the Sanhedrin didn't exercise Roman authority. IF ROME DIDN'T GIVE PERMISSION, THE SANHEDRIN WOULDN'T HAVE HAD ANY AUTHORITY. The fact that Rome was allowing them to 'enforce Jewish law' is positive proof that they were doing it BY Roman authority.


1. I would like to see where you get that information?? Demonstrate that the ancients considered the head to be the neck. Otherwise, you are simply revising history and making up bold-faced lies.

2. I didn't contradict myself. You are simply incompetent when it comes to history and you repeatedly demonstrate. The Sanhedrin did not exercise Roman authority. They enforced Jewish law and exercised their own authority over Israel with Roman permission. They did not exert Roman authority. They were authorized by Rome to enforce Jewish law, not Roman law.

Your attempt to make the Sanherin = The false prophet is really foolish and demonstrates how far you will go to distort facts in order to support your goofy eschatology. Try having some integrity for once instead of making junk up that has no basis in truth or reality.


You just crossed my line Shiloh. I will thank you not to answer anymore of my posts. To assume I have no integrity simply because I disagree with your eschatology is wrong, to publicly state so is worse.

After a little research, it appears that modern anatomy considers the head and neck together. Since modern medicine is derived from the ancients, the chances are reasonable that the ancient world considered the matter likewise...HOWEVER...

An examination of the Greek text does not require the location of the wound. It merely states that one of the heads suffered a mortal wound. Since Nero DID suffer a mortal wound, my understanding is not flawed.

As for whether the Sanhedrin exercised the authority of Rome, it stands to reason that if I am legally in charge, and I tell someone to do something, they are exercising my authority and not doing something of their own volition. Same situation with the Sanhedrin: They had no legal authority of any kind as a conquered people, unless the Romans gave them permission to do something.

#33
Montana Marv

Montana Marv

    Veteran Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 795 posts
BB

Your statement from above post: Quote: After a little research, it appears that modern anatomy considers the head and neck together. Since modern medicine is derived from the ancients, the chances are reasonable that the ancient world considered the matter likewise...HOWEVER...

Modern anatomy does not consider the head and neck together. Where did you come up with that flawed view. The head is comprised of the cranium/skull and the jaw, and those only. The upper neck is top of the spine. The upper neck is where the head rests. The spine is considered as one and is comprise of 33 units C1 through and including the tip of the coxcus.A head wound is an injury to the skull or cranium.

Unless you have read Gray's Anatomy from cover to cover, I would totallly disregard your false information.

Also Modern medicine is not an off shoot of the ancients.

In Christ
Montana Marv

#34
shiloh357

shiloh357

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 31,008 posts

You just crossed my line Shiloh. I will thank you not to answer anymore of my posts. To assume I have no integrity simply because I disagree with your eschatology is wrong, to publicly state so is worse.



It is not becaue you disagree with my eschatology, but because you make up stuff and present a sorely revised version of history in order to make it fit your eschatology.

And I will respond to any of your posts if I get the notion to. You are free to ignore me, but I will publicly correct your egregious errors anytime I want.

After a little research, it appears that modern anatomy considers the head and neck together. Since modern medicine is derived from the ancients, the chances are reasonable that the ancient world considered the matter likewise...HOWEVER...

An examination of the Greek text does not require the location of the wound. It merely states that one of the heads suffered a mortal wound. Since Nero DID suffer a mortal wound, my understanding is not flawed.


Complete and utter garbage. Modern anatomy know no such thing as saying the head and neck are the same body part. I don't what you think "research" is, but you are completely wrong. Nero committed sucide by stabbing his neck. But a bigger question is when was the wound healed and when did anyone wonder at its healing???


As for whether the Sanhedrin exercised the authority of Rome, it stands to reason that if I am legally in charge, and I tell someone to do something, they are exercising my authority and not doing something of their own volition. Same situation with the Sanhedrin: They had no legal authority of any kind as a conquered people, unless the Romans gave them permission to do something.


Sorry, but for those who prefer truth, , your insufferable revision of history is very frustrating. To try and paint the entire body of the sanhedrin to represent a single personage and prophet doesn't make any sense. When did the Sanhedrin cause Jews to worship the image of the beast??? When did the Sanhedrin perform miracles in the presence of the beast?? That is the problem with your bogus approach to history is that you can't force the Sanhedrin to fit the entire profile of the false prophet. Your approach fails on that basis.

#35
Hippie333

Hippie333

    Advanced Member

  • Worthy Watchman
  • PipPipPip
  • 375 posts
I have sat reading this thread in amazement.....the counter to the OP was proven many times over and any information and scripture was ignored completely. One cannot hang onto a theory if large parts of it are totally discredited. I only pray that we don't let these things seperate us....but focus on being Christlike and witnessing to the lost before it is too late.




Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Message Boards - 1999-2014 part of the Worthy Network