1 Corinthians 15:50–54Mystery and Victory
4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).
I have checked the scriptures and you are correct, It does not say secret ? I did say at the bottom of the thread that I had copied it from Gotquestions.org....So thank you for pointing this out....
I think it was ment in a way that God has not revield this to us, so its his secret timing ?
50 I tell you this, brothers: qflesh and blood rcannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. sWe shall not all sleep, tbut we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For uthe trumpet will sound, and vthe dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
There is nothing above that is secret. Notice what Paul actually said:
- Behold! I tell you a mystery. s
- We shall not all sleep, tbut we shall all be changed, 52
- in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For uthe trumpet will sound, and vthe dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
A mystery, is something not formerly revealed (3466 mystḗrion (the root of the English term, "mystery") – mystery. In the Bible, a "mystery" (3466 /mystḗrion) is not something unknowable. Rather, it is what can only be known through revelation, i.e. because God reveals it.)
and here Paul is telling (revealing) it. What is the mystery he is revealing? That not everyone will die (sleep), but that some who are living, will be changed.
Compare that to the rapture passage you quoted:13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
What elements are described there?Cor
: We shall not all sleep, t
but we shall all be changedThess:
and the dead (the sleeping ones) in Christ will rise first. hen we who are alive (the ones who will be changed) and remain will be caught up together with themCor
:in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed
Notice that Paul also said that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
He has pointed out, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom, giving us a reason why we MUST be changed.
Taking the idea of a necessary change with us to the thessalonian passage, why would we suppose the Christians caught up in the Rapture, are not changed? Of course, we assume they are which makes these to events seem pretty similar, if fact, they are the same event.
Nothing in the thessalonian chapter says a thing about before the tribulation, so why do we? Seriously WHY DO WE? Not one verse in the bible, contradicts the idea that the rapture is after the great tribulation, and not one verse in the bible, says that it is before the tribulation.
You mentioned Matt 24. Let's look at this verse about the rapture from 1 Thess:for the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
and compare that with Matt 24:“But immediately after the tribulation of those days . . . . . they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
Notice the common elements in bold, and notice that the thessalonian passage says nothing about going to heaven at that time. I think that it is helpful to note, that Paul clarified some of this in 2nd thess where he said:with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him
That sets the topic, and then he says:Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
Don't you think this is describing what Jesus described in Matt 24?:15“Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17“Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. 18“Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20“But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21“For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
It sure looks to me like Paul is poining out, the Jesus will not return until after this abominiation in the temple is revealed, just as Jesus said. This abomination is the signal, from which they are to flee, becuase:
"For then there will be a great tribulation"
.No where, are there two second coming mentioned. The passages that are said to be the rapture, share the same characteristics as the return of Christ after the tribulation.
If all that were not clear enough, we have the fact the Paul said of the rapture, that the dead in Christ are raised first, then the living are raptured. If we knew at what point the dead are raised, we would know could discover a point after which the rapture occurs. Fortunelty, we are given that information, in Rev 20:Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Notice, that these people are in the tribulation, becuase they would not accept the mark of the beast, and notice that they are killed for their testamony of Jesus, so we know these are Christians. Then it says:This is the first resurrection.Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
So, the question becomes, if this is the first ressurection
, and then those who are raptured are changes after the dead in Christ rise, and the first ressurrection occurs after the tribulation, how is it possible that any are raptured before the tribulation:
I have stuggled for years to learn why it is, that people refuse to accept the simple statements of scripture, to beleive concocted theories that complicate things bye reinterpreting tidbits torn from their contexts. I understant that many, have only heard one side preached at them or represented in movies and novels, but what ever happened to the concept of being a Berean?:
Now the Bereans were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see
whether these things were so.
Be a Berean!
Love ya all