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The gift of prophecy

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#1
gdemoss

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What is the gift of prophecy and how would one know if they have it?

In Jesus Name,

Gary

#2
FresnoJoe

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What is the gift of prophecy and how would one know if they have it?


When One Truly Speaks

But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
1 Samuel 8:6-7

The Word Of God

And it came to pass, that when Jeremiah had made an end of speaking unto all the people all the words of the LORD their God, for which the LORD their God had sent him to them, even all these words, Then spake Azariah the son of Hoshaiah, and Johanan the son of Kareah, and all the proud men, saying unto Jeremiah, Thou speakest falsely: the LORD our God hath not sent thee to say, Go not into Egypt to sojourn there: Jeremiah 43:1-2

#3
gdemoss

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What is the gift of prophecy and how would one know if they have it?


When One Truly Speaks

But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
1 Samuel 8:6-7

The Word Of God

And it came to pass, that when Jeremiah had made an end of speaking unto all the people all the words of the LORD their God, for which the LORD their God had sent him to them, even all these words, Then spake Azariah the son of Hoshaiah, and Johanan the son of Kareah, and all the proud men, saying unto Jeremiah, Thou speakest falsely: the LORD our God hath not sent thee to say, Go not into Egypt to sojourn there: Jeremiah 43:1-2


Thank you brother Joe, your addition is most welcome and enlightening. Do you have any more?

Gary

#4
Sevenseas

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Here we go: It's going to be a bumpy ride, so put your seat belts on ;)

Getting serious now, Gary, do you define a difference between an OT prophet and NT prophet or the way the gift
functions/functionned?

See, for my own part, I have noticed that a person (and for clairity's sake here let's define person as a Joe Blow, general
John Doe public person and not lasso anyone on these threads. I think if we keep our heads clear on that, we may
have a better definition with a better basis in the reality of scripture)

As I was saying, for my own part, I have noticed that those (again Joe general) who define prophecy in a manner that
seems to be of the: Thus saith the Lord variety, define their position from the Old Testament.

But, is this the definition in all truth? What does the NT have to say about prophecy and what part does the Holy Spirit
contribute in either testament and should we compare and if we do and find a difference, what then?

Oh yeah, I could spell out what I think, but where's the fun in that?

BTW, everyone (IMO) who seems to be a little short on the definition always manages to state that it is someone
who speaks for the Lord and whose prophecies come to pass. I see that as a non sequitor

I would really like a study on this so I hope we can have one (I don't mean just you and me, but I hope others will
be willing to actually study the Bible and not just give opinions)

Sorry if I sound full of myself...I am just being blunt...pressed for time..so sorry

#5
wingnut-

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1 Corinthians 13:8

New King James Version (NKJV)

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.

According to scripture there are gifts that will cease, which is why there has always been a debate over this topic, the question of course being is when they cease. Unfortunately due to personal circumstances, I do not have access to all of my notes anymore, but I do recall that in the original Greek there were two different words used in this passage regarding these three specific gifts. The word used for knowledge and prophecy ceasing meant they would cease when someone or something acts on them to cause them to cease.


Matthew 5:17-18

New King James Version (NKJV)

Christ Fulfills the Law

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Jesus is the fulfillment, and the revelation of John was the completion of the bible and the new testament. What need would we have for prophecy today when the Word of God has been completed already? Who has something more to add about what lays ahead than what the Lord revealed Himself, or what He revealed to John to share with us in revelation?

#6
Sevenseas

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Now there's a different answer, but not unexpected.....the plot thickens (being light hearted today but I can assure everyone that I am still
frumpy underneath )...laughing at myself

#7
wingnut-

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Now there's a different answer, but not unexpected.....the plot thickens (being light hearted today but I can assure everyone that I am still
frumpy underneath )...laughing at myself


Lol sorry, don't mean to stir the pot or anything, but just sharing what I believe pertains to prophecy, no offense intended of course. Oh, and just to clarify so no one misunderstands me, I do believe God still speaks to us through His word ;)

#8
Sevenseas

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Now there's a different answer, but not unexpected.....the plot thickens (being light hearted today but I can assure everyone that I am still
frumpy underneath )...laughing at myself


Lol sorry, don't mean to stir the pot or anything, but just sharing what I believe pertains to prophecy, no offense intended of course. Oh, and just to clarify so no one misunderstands me, I do believe God still speaks to us through His word ;)


It's not my thread but stir away! I keep bumping into you everywhere so I had better be polite, eh?

#9
wingnut-

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It's not my thread but stir away! I keep bumping into you everywhere so I had better be polite, eh?


Lol, well I have never seen you not being polite, so wouldn't expect any different now :)

#10
gdemoss

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Thanks for the replies. I don't have time today to give to my own thoughts but will when the Lord permits. It is one minute past my bedtime as we speak, well I should have gone to be an hour ago but I try hard to make it before 10:30....now two minutes...but there are more threads!....I digress....goodnight.

Gary

#11
FresnoJoe

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Simple

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18

Truth

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 2 Timothy 3:16 (NIV)

~

But, is this the definition in all truth? What does the NT have to say about prophecy and what part does the Holy Spirit
contribute in either testament and should we compare and if we do and find a difference, what then?...


Prophecy~! When One Truly Speaks

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:16-17

The Word Of God

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Or Not

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 2 Corinthians 11:3-4

#12
Sevenseas

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I think it would be helpful to understand what the BIBLE calls prophecy. A topical study and not just random verses (although absolutely true)
would help to build a foundation. God's Word is our foundation and we must understand that the Bible does not contradict itself and
we are told to study which indicates a methodology for better understanding.


Your word have I hid in my heart, that I might not sin against you. Psalm 119:11

I know many people will state they believe in 'prophecy' (of course because it is in the Bible and they want to believe the Bible)
but if you try and pin down exactly what it is they are thinking prophecy is, you often draw a blank look or poorly constructed
phrases they have heard somewhere down the line, consisting of verses strung together and taken out of context

(I am not referring to anyone in particular...I have had this experience many times in my life and I am simply stating
what I have found to be a general principal that is applicable in many churches and in the lives of many sincere
Christians who have no idea how badly they are lacking in their Biblical knowledge and the detrimental effect that
has on their faith)

If a person cannot actually state what it is they say they believe, then my question is 'well, what do you believe?'

I first began my journey with hardcore Bible study years ago when working with a Jehovah's Witness who did her best
to steer every conversation to her cultic faith and why I should be interested. I informed her of my Christian faith and she
jumped on that and wanted to match verses and compare my knowledge to hers.

Sadly, even though I knew that what she was saying had a false tone to it, I could not offer basic reproof. I made amends
and started studying and really applying the Bible to my life and beliefs and that has made all the difference.

I believe God had that person work with me; in fact, I was the one who hired her and it set off a totally new direction in
my life.

One of my favorite verses is: He sent His word and healed them, And delivered them from their destructions. Psalm 107:20

Is there anything more beautiful than that? And I can confess that it is absolutely TRUE!

#13
Bold Believer

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Prophecy applies the Scripture to specific situations rather than just a general overall sense. A prophet in both the Older and New Testaments did this. A prophet also uplifts or rebukes within that specific situation to which God has led him or her to speak. In the authority-order, the prophet ranks #2.

Apostle (missionary: apostolos...one sent out)
Prophet (the forthteller, applying Scripture to situations as God leads)
Evangelist (the good news-bringer, the gatherer or harvester of souls)
Pastor (the shepherd: poimen, the guider through everyday life for a group of Believers)
Teacher (the guy/girl who breaks down Scripture and explains it to the Believers)

#14
Sevenseas

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Well let's get technical. It's so seldom actually done. Just a very BRIEF synopsis (very)
Words in italics are from the Web Bible


Hebrew: nabi, from a root meaning "to bubble forth, as from a fountain," hence “to utter”, compare Ps. 45:1)

Nabi is is the first and the most generally used for a prophet. In the time of Samuel another word, ro'eh, "seer", began to be used (1 Sam. 9:9). It occurs seven times in reference to Samuel. Afterwards another word, hozeh, “seer” (2 Sam. 24:11), was employed. In 1 Ch. 29:29 all these three words are used: "Samuel the seer (ro'eh), Nathan the prophet (nabi'), Gad the seer" (hozeh). In Josh. 13:22 Balaam is called (Hebrew) a kosem“diviner,” a word used only of a false prophet.



Ask yourself what the words to 'bubble forth' bring to mind and of course the answer is 'water' This, is an indication
of the Holy Spirit speaking through the individual. Water is often and consistently used in scripture to denote the
Person of the Holy Spirit. The one who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, will have rivers of living water flowing from his heart. John 7:38


Water symbolizes cleansing, new life, eternal life and also our identity with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection. Water is also one one of the symbols of the Holy Spirit.

A complete study of the application of this element to the symbolism in scripture would be surprising in all it
encompasses but very exhaustive; check a concordance for a brief understanding and you will see that.

Regarding the above, we can determine that it is the HOLY SPIRIT who must be working in or bubbling up
in a person if they are actually a prophet (using the word in its broadest sense because there are other terms
also used regarding this ability as per the notes in italics above)


Prophets were the immediate organs of God for the communication of his mind and will to men (Deut. 18:18, 19). The whole Word of God may in this general sense be spoken of as prophetic, inasmuch as it was written by men who received the revelation they communicated from God, no matter what its nature might be. The foretelling of future events was not a necessary but only an incidental part of the prophetic office. The great task assigned to the prophets whom God raised up among the people was “to correct moral and religious abuses, to proclaim the great moral and religious truths which are connected with the character of God, and which lie at the foundation of his government.”

Pay very careful attention to the above in green because THAT is the THE most important part of the gift of prophecy.

It is NOT the foretelling of future events and the belief that the future is the main concern of God.

Far too many people believe that foretelling is the gift when actually it is FORTHTELLING.

Neither cancels the other out...one is more important than the other and yet both are the same. They are both the same
in the sense that if a future event is foretold it would also be forthtold if truly from the Holy Spirit.


When Paul stated he wished all could prophesy, he did not mean foretell tomorrow's events.

He meant what is written in green above.


#15
Joshua-777

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The gift of Prophecy simply means inspired speach. Prophecy could be telling the person about the secrets of their heart to confirm the Gospel or it could be simply saying Jesus loves you and Holy Spirit infusing those words with the grace to bring them into the revelation of His love. Sometimes it's visions about things and eventss or hearing Gods heart for a situation or region but mostly it's encouraging who ever is infront of you. It's a way to impart God's love.

Alot of times on the street, I'll approach people and just know about them, and what the Lord reveals is the gold in their heart, it si always to encourage and build up. For example, Saturday we went out to the skatepark to love some kids and one kid I looked at him and knew he was a leader and influenced everyone around him, I also saw he was a proptector to those around him. Then the guy next to him I knew he played music and was good enough to start a career with it. I also felt his knee was injured and it turnes out his knee had a steal plate in it. So after a quick prayer he said all the pain left his knee.

One thing I love doing is pulling the gold out of people and sharing the gospel by telling them that Jesus didn't just die to cover their sins but to take them into the fulness of who He created them to be. Identity is amazing. When you can bring identity through prophecy it will inspire purpose and destiny in the Lord.

#16
Sevenseas

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Respectfully:

The gift of Prophecy simply means inspired speach.


It really does not mean that. for me, this is not something about this person is wrong and that person is right. It is ONLY about what
the Bible defines as the prophetic word


Alot of times on the street, I'll approach people and just know about them, and what the Lord reveals is the gold in their heart, it si always to encourage and build up. For example, Saturday we went out to the skatepark to love some kids and one kid I looked at him and knew he was a leader and influenced everyone around him, I also saw he was a proptector to those around him. Then the guy next to him I knew he played music and was good enough to start a career with it. I also felt his knee was injured and it turnes out his knee had a steal plate in it. So after a quick prayer he said all the pain left his knee.


That is not the gift of prophecy. That, is a word of knowledge

Please note that prophecy deals with WORDS FROM GOD and does not mean information about an individual. That, is another gift
as noted, word of knowledge CONCERNING that person

I have had a good number of words of knowledge myself and it is not prophecy...again, I'm not wanting to be right or think
you are wrong

I really want to see what scripture is stating regarding the op

#17
Joshua-777

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I’ve noticed as prophecy increases in me, words of knowledge and words of wisdom increases also. There is a difference between words of knowledge and prophesying over someone’s heart. Words of knowledge is more like a thought pops in my head like right knee, or something that relates to the person, but prophesying over someone is much deeper, it has to do with their desires, their heart, and their identity. Who God made them to be, and this imparts a grace to step into their true identity. Prophecy reveals the secrets of the heart.

Paul shows in 1 Corinthians 14:25 that prophecy reveals the secrets of the heart and is very much so involved with the individual as well as the whole Church.

1 Corinthians 14:24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all. 25 And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.

Paul makes clear that prophecy speaks edification, exhortation, and comfort to all men. Prophecy is directly related to building up the Church.

1 Corinthians 14:3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

The word Prophecy used is
prophēteuō which means to foretell events, divine, speak under inspiration, exercise the prophetic office: - prophesy.

Prophecy has to do with foretelling events which is clear throughout the book of acts, but the aspect of prophecy that I’m referring to is “Speak under Inspiration.”

Similar to prophet - prophētēs which is a foreteller (“prophet”); by analogy an inspired speaker; by extension a poet: - prophet.

Now, with prophecy, I believe the” Inspiration” imparts grace to the hearer.

The word grace is charis in Greek which means graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy). Strong’s dictionary

Grace is the divine influence upon the heart, it’s God enabling change. So I believe prophecy causes a divine influence upon the heart through imparting grace to the hearer As well as fortelling, and speaking God’s heart to the person.

Now in 1 Timothy 4:14 it says, “Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership.”
This shows that Prophecy imparts gifts, or anointing to people. Imparting gifts through prophecy is enabling someone to operate in an anointing they couldn’t before, - divine influence or enablement.
whuch can be concidered a specific grace.

I hope this helps to clarify. God bless you.

#18
gdemoss

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I have had a few minutes to review the topic of discussion tonight. I did a canvas across scripture to get a general feel for what is said about a prophet. It appears that a prophet is one who is gifted to interpret the will of God in a situation as well as foretell upcoming events. Prophets are not perfect and make many mistakes. The spirit of the Lord is required to prophesy. As a gift it is God opening up the understanding of the individual involved for the purpose of revealing that which God wishes to be revealed.

A prophet has the task of perfecting the saints. He is given insight and understanding for the purpose of edifying others. His specific skill is steeped in understanding and that understanding is of the ways of God that he might speak on behalf of God. A prophet also deals in the understanding of that which is revealed to come in the future whether by fresh revelation or understanding of written prophecy of old.

I have yet to determine how it is that a person knows they have this gift except it be by the ability to prophesy as the spirit moves them. But according to Paul any prophet can acknowledge or deny as truth that which another prophet has revealed to be truth.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

#19
wingnut-

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We are given means to determine whether a prophet is true or false in the book of Deuteronomy, and according to scripture if their claim does not come to pass, they are not a prophet of God, and not to be feared. So a true prophet does not make mistakes.


Deuteronomy 18:21-22

New King James Version (NKJV)

21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.


There are also examples of a prophet being accurate in their predictions, but not being a prophet of God found here.


Deuteronomy 13:1-5

New King James Version (NKJV)

Punishment of Apostates

13 “If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’—which you have not known—‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him. 5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of bondage, to entice you from the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall put away the evil from your midst.

#20
Sevenseas

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I have yet to determine how it is that a person knows they have this gift except it be by the ability to prophesy as the spirit moves them. But according to Paul any prophet can acknowledge or deny as truth that which another prophet has revealed to be truth.


Well, we seem to have one here?

Perhaps he can help you

For me, the discussion is over. Once someone starts telling everyone they are a prophet and
can't wait to get the words out, I'm done.

Thanks




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