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Question for atheists.

481 posts in this topic

Perhaps what you need to show us is a reason for believing in God that is not biblically based.

It is the fascination of life Celsius! God's Word 'IS' God and the written word is merely the corporeal aspect of witness to the Eternal Spirit which 'IS' God...

How then can I comply with your request of using outside of that Word when in fact it does not have an outside? But because you reject the eternal

witness that has come into the world does not mean that the eternal witness is not here... it just means you refuse to see it :)

Back when I still believed, but felt my faith slipping away, I tried very hard to recapture my conviction in God's existence. I desperately wanted to believe, but that belief still fell away. So it is not just a matter of refusing to open ones eyes. Things are a lot more complicated than that. I don't expect you to show me any evidence of God outside the Bible. I don't think there is any evidence of that kind. I've already expended a great deal of effort looking for God in the world. I just couldn't find him. I also looked for him in scripture. I couldn't find him there either, in fact I found what I thought were reasons for not believing. And I stumbled upon those passages while I was searching for God. And yes I prayed to God to reach out to me, to let me know he was there. So everything everyone tells me to do I have already done, yet everyone speaks to me as if I have never made the effort. The one big difference that seems present is that so many people speak of having a personal relationship with God. They speak as if God communicates with them. They sense his presence. I have never experienced that, not even back in the day when I still believed. Perhaps in the final analysis it is this absence of God from my senses that permitted the belief to slip away?

Loved One! You not having spiritual sight cannot believe the duress of this moment in my writing to you...

so much so that The Father and I have discussed you with tears and I said to Him Lord You said that You loved them all

and I know You love me because of You in me... but Celsius doesn't have Your presence inside.... he has not went to the

place of death inside himself where he saw as You see us! Father will You help me to show him the path back to You

in repentance that You might give him this sight? His answer to me Celsius I await now in you - for all of your eternity is

the stakes in this conversation...

"Back when I still believed, but felt my faith slipping away, I tried very hard to recapture my conviction in God's existence.

I desperately wanted to believe, but that belief still fell away. So it is not just a matter of refusing to open ones eyes."

this is what we call The First rebellion and it consist of that which is created blaming The Creator of His inabilities to do

as He has said... to us who have been given the New Life within watch as everything you move within, exist and breath,

think and dream, even perhaps love as man loves... all of this is God's created elements but are detached from Him in your

own mind and authority but never the less are still His elements to do with as it gives Him Pleasure! Did you enjoy your

sleep and rest? Did you have a delicious breakfast? Did you enjoy a warm place on a cold winter day? Did you breath in

and out in the enjoyment of existence? Did you thank God for all this or did you call Him a liar and a foolish thought? A simple

preponderance of mans own making which in fact elevates man to his mastery over all... it is a wonder of mine, that we, being

brought into this world at the same era of the times: I did not see my right to call God a liar; You on the other hand did! In

the very simplest of reason you have only the choice of God to accept His authority as Creator or reject and live in your own

authority to which God Reasons with you

Mt 5:33-37

33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely,

but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.' 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither

by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem,

for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot

make one hair white or black. 37 But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever

is more than these is from the evil one.


even the color of your hair is set by Me... the evidence is true that you were born and are outside

of your own doing and certainly no one in present science can deny that the genetic code is one

of such complexity in it- (A) living writ of what you shall be even before you became! It does not

take rocket science to see this and to know That The Word became flesh and testified That Self

same Word Was God! We know Him by His name Jesus!

Jn 1:1-5

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing

was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines

in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.


so now we see the Creator in the corporeal aspects of the genetics and Written Word (Bible) SO

at this point I ask you again what right or authority do you deny this truth? Are you not using the

self same beings around you to stilt up your own unbelief but they are as you in the genetic code

of life and therefore under the same authority as yourself and your hair color... or perhaps it is a

more blackened ominous force that persuades you that perhaps does not contain a genetic code

at all but never the less being called angelic also brought into being by God Who has never

experienced beginning except through The Son becoming flesh! Imagine now the the transference

of the duress I spoke of to you above now in the life of this writer of God's Word

1 Jn 1:1-3

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes,

which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life — 2 the life

was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was

with the Father and was manifested to us —


John actually was with Jesus throughout His earthly ministry! AND HEARD! AND SAW!





STATE OF ALL THAT HAS BEEN WRITTEN THROUGH ME BY GOD.... but you probably are calling

this man a liar as well... huh? What right do you have to do this? The uniqueness of faith... we all have

it because we are here, somewhere toward the end of existence as we know it... and placing it in

God through His Word we receive life but placing it in those around us and this world controlled by

the darkness we receive death! Clearly to this point you have chosen the darkness thinking it to be

elevated above the light... but I have been in the absence of light (cave) and clearly it was an

experience I would not want to live in all of eternity! Another of His Creative Witnesses of Truth! I

knew then in that cave unless the light was restored I would perish in that cave trying to find my way

out of the darkness into the light... The Living Word of God is that light in your darkness

Jn 8:12

12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall

not walk in darkness, but have the light of life."


It was such a revelation to me that the very thing I did not have in that cave at that moment I knew

was the only thing that would allow me the light of life and by not having it in myself I knew I was

dependent upon that outside of myself to restore to me that which I so desperately needed! I mean

I could grope around and try to find my way out but I also knew the way was hard and the likely hood

of myself finding the return to the light was nil! (spelunking)... if you would like to experience this truth

go into a cave through windings, ropes, small passages and you will know that without that light you

could never return to life and now you have the Creators living message of truth as He gives witness


Ro 1:20-23

20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by

the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became

futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became

fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man

— and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. NKJV

another way I find in The Lord of Creation is His Witness of Himself in the Heavens above- He has


Isa 40:22

22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers;

that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: KJV

Columbus placed his faith in this word and the greatest Christian nation known in history was born!

And through it walked on the moon and discovered truly the planets are moving away from one

another as if they are being stretched out like a curtain... but you will refute these truths as well! huh?

... read above I tried to

explain what you asking here but never can God's Word be left out of anything -> except in a lie <- Love, Steven

Not a lie, I don't think Steven, but a different way of viewing scripture is certainly possible. All beliefs about God are derived from the Bible. If there was no Bible there would be no knowledge of God. The American Indians, for instance, had no awareness of the Christian god. They had gods, but not that one. Karen Armstrong wrote a book titled A History of God. Awareness of God had a beginning and that awareness changed over time. Armstrong tracks that development: the evolution, if you will, of the idea of God. The literature is immense, but she didn't invent it. She researched what others had written and assembled it to make it more accessible. The ideas are now old. I first read them in my late teens or early twenties -- decades ago. This secular approach to the Bible has become ingrained in my thinking, but I only fully discovered it after losing my belief in God. It didn't cause the loss, but with God gone I was free to see scripture in a new light; and that light, as I perceive it now, makes a great deal more sense than the traditional biblical explanations. That is why I asked you to show me evidence of God from outside the Bible, because scripture no longer carries any weight for me. I still believe that select passages are quite probably the actual teaching of Jesus, but I believe that he was just a man with a belief in God. His words cannot be evidence of God, not for me. Yes I know you are in this place in Scripture

Ro 1:24-25

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among

themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than

the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.


The great evil is that which imitates God as closely as he is able for the purpose of leading astray those who

are trying to come to Him . We know this being by the name satan and whether you are fully indoctrinated into

his lying light of darkness that we came form either rocks or the more refined by pressures of science itself

alien DNA! Time into death of flesh will tell... and it will be your choice as to trust yourself and what you choose outside of

yourself influenced by self OR GOD and His witnesses ... I mean really go into the cave that we spoke of and

destroy all available light it will be the same as you are doing right now!

Jn 12:35-36

35 Then Jesus said to them, "A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. 36 While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light." These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them.


I tell you all this because I don't want you to think that I am deliberately ignoring your good advice. I made great effort in the past, when the doubts first surfaced, to maintain my faith, but it didn't work. I still lost my belief in God. Now, I think it is far too late for Bible passages -- that have lost their meaning for me -- to bring that belief back. The only thing that would work would be for God himself to make his presence known, but why he would choose to do that now, and not years ago when I was beseeching him, I don't understand.

This is known to us who are NewBorn to God-> the old man (flesh) that which makes his god the god of this corporeal environment...

For in order for him (old man) to exist he must have a god for all of what has reason knows everything points to a number one as the

platform for a number two... now this is divided out and painted many different ways but it is always only one of two choices- either

the created thing or God The Uncreated Creator... don't you think it is painfully apparent causality :) Love, Steven

Celsius, what happened in your life to cause you to lose your belief in God?


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your friend Jacob,



re: "Tell me this, why would it then be that we spend so very much time discussing these things with you (Hell and among other things) if we in the end wanted you to end up in Hell? Now where is the logic in that? Our goal is to get as many SAVED in Christ, not to end up in Hell."



Celsius touched on this in post #973, We indeed are not suggesting that you want anyone to end up in the lake of fire. But, if for some reason, at the end of a person's life, they haven't met the requirements for salvation, then we ARE suggesting that you think that it is fair, just and proper for the person to be tortured for eternity. And you must want to believe this because there simply is no scripture that absolutely has to be interpreted that way.

The bible is plain as day and very clear on Heaven and Hell.

John 14:6 "Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

If your not going to Heaven, there is only one other place to go my friend.


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...then why are you here?

I've answered that several times and the last effort on my part was in post #932 of this thread. It was addressed to you.

So you're here, in THIS thread, trying to protect the TOE and science? Pardon me but I have rarely ever read anything from you about that subject. So....why are you here?


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People stop believing for any number of reasons. For Richard Dawkins it was the discovery of evolution, for me it was reading Genesis, but as for the reason we can't believe, I think for most, it is simply because we can't see any reason to believe in God. As Dawkins is fond of saying, we are all atheists when it comes to belief in the gods of antiquity, but some of us take it one god further. In other words we see no more evidence for Yahweh than we do for Zeus or Thor. That's his point. You may think there is more evidence for the former, but we just don't agree, and that's why athesists have the debates we do with you Christians.

Dear One A Little Straight

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. John 10:26-29


Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8

For The gods Of Antiquity

They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. Deuteronomy 32:17

Are Indeed Alive And Well

But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. 1 Corinthians 10:20

In "Modern" Science

And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart. Jeremiah 18:12

Do You See

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:26-29



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This thread is closed for review. This site is NOT a platform to teach against God, but where the lost can learn about Him.

You may not post any material that is disrespectful of God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, or the Bible.

The outer Court is an area where we allow anyone who wishes to learn more about our belief to ask questions and learn.

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After review this thread will remain closed. I'd like to re-iterate what OneLight posted. This is a Ministry (Worthy) that just happens to have a discussion forum (WCF). This is not a platform to teach against God but a place where those who are lost can find out more about God's salvation, Jesus Christ's sacrifice and the truth found in the Bible.

God bless,



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