From other thread....
We both agree on II-IV. I really like the concept of Sola Scriptura. Excellent. It is helpful to understand what one agrees upon in order to find common ground.
This really reminds me of Psalm 133:1…
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
for brethren to dwell together in unity!
Continuing with bite sizes…
I. Interesting question. Both Christ and his bride are subject unto the Father. A man and his wife are both subject unto his father. All are subject unto God the Father. There is not conflict here. There is a simple chain of authority that must be followed that always ends with God.
Interesting perspective. Where is the Biblical evidence for the sentence in bold brother?
You forgot to 'bold' the sentence you wanted biblical evidence for or I missed the bolding
In relation to this question how do you interpret Gen 2:24 then? Men are clearly instructed to leave father and mother, be joined to their wives, and become one flesh. How does the idea of being one flesh go back to including parental authority?
Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
One would equally ask the opposite question as to how does leaving ones mother and father to be joined unto a wife negate the natural authority God gave parents over their children? Where is this supported biblically? To be concise, I am declaring that if what your interpreting the text to mean is the true way of understanding it then we ought to see examples of it from day one moving forward but we do not. We see Noah acting as ruling authority over his sons and their wives after the flood up to and including judgment upon the children of Ham for that which he had done unto his father. The authority he had to judge his children and their children including those who had never been born is seen in the curse/judgment given coming to pass by the power of God. Consider carefully what Paul says:
1Cr 4:19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.
This coming from a man who spoke to another declaring that he would become blind and did. He knows what true biblical authority is and how it works. If you have authority and are in the right then God is the power behind your words. Biblical authority is an amazing thing. Consider that there is one who I personally believe to be alive and in power now who will soon begin to call down fire from heaven in the sight of men.
This is why I pointed you to the text in Hosea to show you that there is a point where God will not enforce a persons authority over those he gave it to when their own obedience is not being fulfilled. These are hard sayings. Difficult to understand. I do speak from experience. I have used my authority over my children to prophesy what would happen to them if they did not obey my voice and God has made my prophecy come to pass causing my children to fear my voice. It is not a power to be abused and one that will help a person under authority to respect the authority given them by God. In the near future this will be important to understand because we will need to know when God will stand behind the authority in question or not. Daniel understood this and was kept alive even though the authority over him had him thrown in the lions den.
On a side note but having to do with this first point I have 2 questions that I’m very curious about…
A. Do you plan on giving a dowry to the men your daughters marry?
Men don't give dowry to the ones marrying their daughters but receive them from them.
Christ will have returned before my daughters are ready to marry. If he had not, I only expect one of my daughters to grow up and be obedient unto me as the other who is only my step daughter has no respect for me. She would never ask my blessing upon her marriage choice anyway. Whether or not I would consider asking a dowry for her hand in marriage is a good question. I think I may consider such a thing for a man who doesn't believe my daughter to be worth anything but a free ride isn't worthy of my daughter.
B. Do you plan on controlling where your sons (and therefore their families) live, work, what they buy, who they marry, etc.? This is especially of interest to me as I begin to teach my little guy.
I plan on giving instruction to my children until I die or Christ returns. I will either apply my blessing unto their requests or with hold my blessing from them depending upon what I believe is best for them and their families according to all that I understand about God and his ways. My children are able to walk away and not listen to me and choose to go their own way but not with my blessing. They will have to do so without obeying my voice and therefore live with the consequences of their decisions. Consider the following:
Jhn 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Jhn 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
What I am stating here is that a father or mother who is a friend of Jesus is instructing their children in a godly manner, even when it is a declaration concerning where they should live, work, etc. Every child must understand where to draw the line though. When to declare unto the authority placed above them that they ought to obey God rather than men. Here is where the gray area comes in. In our understanding of who God is. We will know how well we did when we stand before him in judgment and give an account as to why we chose to obey or disobey those who had God given authority over us.
V. I believe Romans 1:30 (in context talking about unsaved people) should be viewed in the light of Ephesians 6:1-4, Ephesians 5:22-33, Romans 8:17, and 1 Cor. 2:16. Therefore Romans 1:30 refers to unsaved children who do not obey the Biblical principles and commands/advice set forth by their parents but more importantly by God himself. And even then Christians do not have a reprobate mind as we have the mind of Christ. (1 Cor. 2:16) Do you agree or disagree?
Disagree. Though it is in context speaking directly about the unsaved, the principles still apply. Those who do such things are worthy of death. Ask Ananias and Saphira. Ask the fornicator in Corinth. Ask those who were sickly or those who had fallen asleep in Corinth if the principles applied to them.
VI. I believe Matt 18:25 should be viewed in light of Romans 8:17. I don’t dispute a man should be the spiritual head of his home. However, Christian men are not superior to Christian women. Christian Father’s are not superior to Christian sons OR Christian daughters. In fact Christian Husbands are NOT superior to Christian Wives in God’s eyes. Different roles yes. Same value. We are all free from sin and in Christ. (Gal. 5:1 & Romans 8:2) Do you agree or disagree?
Disagree. Superiority is defined by authority. Those who are superior ought to use that power to serve those with whom they rule over. It ought not be mistaken as 'better than' which is the tone many seem to take. Just because God gives me authority over you (not saying he has) doesn't mean that I am any better than you but simply chosen by God to bear rule over you. God values everyone the same but gives out authority for the purpose of governing. He is not a respecter of persons though, it doesn't matter to him whether or not he made you king, he will still deal with you the same as any other come judgment day. We all need Christ but in this life there must be order kept. That order is not restricted to property lines.