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Evolution


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#101
FresnoJoe

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to the non genesis literalist. what does the word beresherith mean to you? it the hebrew name genesis and its has a deep meaning. really it can be said it begin with this. barah and reshith which means first and barah means creating from nothing. if the hebrews didnt think that something came from nothing or it was always there then why did they choose to say that barah means created from nothing?

that is what God inspired moses to use.


Grandpa Moshe Was One Very Special Man

And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle. Exodus 33:11

And I Believe God (Yeshua) Narrated To Moshe His Creation Logs
So Truth Seekers Can Clearly See The Power Of His Word

Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
John 11:39-44

#102
jasoncran

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of course, but genesis is used for an apologetic when moses wrote and the story told to him. there are two ways he got the story. orally via whomever taught him the accounts and also what God told him to pen.

#103
slowpoke55

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I like how you dodged the rest of my post.

Nothing dodged - the rest of your post was irrelevant.

Disingenuous posts are irrelevant in discussions? Now why would anyone want to continue participating in a discussion when honesty is not a given? Please note these are rhetorical questions.

#104
DelapsusResurgam

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It is actually a very strong statement of monotheism. We just are so far removed from the polytheistic world that we tend to overlook this and reinterpret it as history. When the Genesis 1 narrative was originally told, the Hebrews lived in a world surrounded by people that believed in many gods. Each geographical area had its own gods that it worshiped. Amongst this pluralism lived these people of God, the one true God. So, what God tells His people is that everything that is worshiped as a god by others in the neighborhood are not gods at all, that He created them, they are part of His creation. People worshiped the sun, the sun is no god, because God created it. The moon, the vegetation, the animals, all were worshiped by people of the Ancient Near East as gods, but are not gods at all.

There is nothing in this narrative that talks about God's mechanism of creating, it simply says He created.

Quoted for Truth. Carry on.

Thank you


Mechanism

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Genesis 1:3

Mechanism

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. Genesis 1:6

Mechanism

And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. Genesis 1:9

Mechanism

And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. Genesis 1:11

Mechanism

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. Genesis 1:14-15

Mechanism

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. Genesis 1:20-22

Mechanism

And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. Genesis 1:24

Mechanism

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 1:26-27

Mechanism

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7

Mechanism

And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Genesis 2:21-23

And Not Even That Great Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Stands Any Chance Trying To Match Jesus In The "Make It So" Department


By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. Psalms 33:6

God's Mechanism Almost Leaves Me Breathless :)


I'm sorry, but try as you may Genesis 1 doesn't speak to the mechanism of creation, only that the One True God created, IS Creator God. He actually tells the Earth to bring forth life, which it did.

Genesis 2 is a completely different narrative with a different purpose written by different people at a much later time.

#105
gdemoss

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Genesis 2 is a completely different narrative with a different purpose written by different people at a much later time.

Is that just your notion or do you actually offer a few facts to back it up?

It is often claimed that Genesis 1 and 2 contain two different creation-narratives. In point of fact, however the strictly complementary nature of the ‘two’ accounts is plain enough: Genesis 1 mentions the creation of man as the last of a series, and without any details, whereas in Genesis 2 man is the center of interest and more specific details are given about him and his setting. There is no incompatible duplication here at all. Failure to recognize the complementary nature of the subject-distinction between a skeleton outline of all creation on the one hand, and the concentration in detail on man and his immediate environment on the other, borders on obscurantism.~ Kenneth Kitchen, School of Archaeology and Oriental Studies (University of Liverpool)


Which gets even deeper and riles up a whole bunch of folks if you declare that Genesis 3 also fits into Genesis 1. But God forbid sin having entered the world before God looked at everything he created and said it was very good. One must simply deny the truth given about when the fruit of the trees and herb of the field were said to be given as food in Genesis 1, 2 and 3. I simply read it as it is presented as a child would understand it but most disagree.

Gary

#106
D-9

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Genesis 2 is a completely different narrative with a different purpose written by different people at a much later time.

Is that just your notion or do you actually offer a few facts to back it up?


It is often claimed that Genesis 1 and 2 contain two different creation-narratives. In point of fact, however the strictly complementary nature of the ‘two’ accounts is plain enough: Genesis 1 mentions the creation of man as the last of a series, and without any details, whereas in Genesis 2 man is the center of interest and more specific details are given about him and his setting. There is no incompatible duplication here at all. Failure to recognize the complementary nature of the subject-distinction between a skeleton outline of all creation on the one hand, and the concentration in detail on man and his immediate environment on the other, borders on obscurantism.~ Kenneth Kitchen, School of Archaeology and Oriental Studies (University of Liverpool)

The consensus among biblical scholars is that Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 were written by two different people who were not in contact with each other, and later the Hebrews compiled the two stories into one as part of the Torah (so of course there is some complements going on between the two). The scholars who deny this are of the conservative brand where they have a very deep predisposition that forces them to reject the notion a priori, and the same can be said of many conservative laymen, and in my experience confirmation bias runs rampant at that point - not too surprising given the great emotional attachment conservatives often have surrounding this issue, further deepening the a priori stance making morton's demon that much more powerful.

#107
D-9

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Mechanism

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Genesis 1:3

<snip>

And Not Even That Great Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Stands Any Chance Trying To Match Jesus In The "Make It So" Department


By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. Psalms 33:6

God's Mechanism Almost Leaves Me Breathless :)


"God said" and by his "word" everything under the Sun was formed ex nihilo by the insurmountable power of God's incantations. I'm inclined to believe that God using incantations is more of a placeholder for however God did it, and not so much a literal description of what happened. For example, in order for there to be sound you need a physical medium to produce and propagate it, but there was no medium for sound to propagate before the physical world existed. Plus sound is a component of the physical, and God is of the spirit not flesh - incorporeal. So even if we ignore the physical impossibility of utilizing sound without a physical medium, I think the tenet of God being a spiritual being puts doubt on the literalness of God using 'magic' that is based off the existence of a material world to produce the material world.

#108
jasoncran

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i think i will read more of bereshith tonight and post what the orthodox jews say , they take it literally. otherwise if its not then tell me why did the jews ever take shabat as the seventh day and did start all feasts and Holy days at sun down in jerusalem?

#109
D-9

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With your hands waiving in the air as your only source we can just as easily and convincingly say - the consensus among biblical scholars is that Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 were written by Moses. The scholars who deny this are of the liberal bent who harbor strong anti-supernatural biases that force them to reject the truth that has been taught for over 2000 years by Jewish and Christian scholars. The same can be said of most liberal laymen, and in my experience confirmation bias runs rampant at that point - not too surprising given the great emotional attachment and error liberals often have surrounding the truth taught in the Bible.

The truth remains true – the Book of Genesis, as with all other canonical books in Holy Scripture, was written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit..."for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit..."

Though the Pentateuch is known as the Books of Moses, nowhere in the Book of Genesis is the author named. Until the last three hundred years, both Jews and Christians were almost unanimous in their belief that Moses was the author (or at least the compiler) of Genesis as well as the author of Exodus through Deuteronomy. Reasons for the rejection of Moses' authorship were not based upon any objective evidence but stemmed from an anti-supernatural bias on behalf of the critics. ~ Don Stewart


I know how you argue, and I'm simply not inclined to track down source after source for your satisfaction just so you can hand-waive it away without ever acknowledging the main points raised. The general subject has been of interest to me for several years, and I offer my opinion for what it's worth. If you disagree you can always research this yourself and see what contemporary scholars have to say and where they fall on the liberal-conservative continuum.

I know that I said I wouldn't track down sources, but I didn't have to track this one down and I think it is a pretty good read for anyone interested: http://www.myjewishl..._Allegory.shtml

#110
GoldenEagle

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This topic seems to just be going round and round in circles. Points have been made and discussed. I don't believe anything edifying or productive can further come of it. Closed for review.




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