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Missouri Pastor Preached On Homosexuality

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#21
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If 'marriage' is merely a constract between parties, as our secular government wishes to 'define' it, then that federal government which has assurped the right to define marriage can certainly decide who can be 'married' in its view.

If marriage is a spiritual covenant entered into before God, then the government has ABSOLUTELY NO SAY IN IT WHATSOEVER.


This is true. However, what do we do with the benefits that are government provided? How do we deal with that?

#22
GoldenEagle

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If 'marriage' is merely a constract between parties, as our secular government wishes to 'define' it, then that federal government which has assurped the right to define marriage can certainly decide who can be 'married' in its view.

If marriage is a spiritual covenant entered into before God, then the government has ABSOLUTELY NO SAY IN IT WHATSOEVER.


This is true. However, what do we do with the benefits that are government provided? How do we deal with that?


Care to list a few of those Ruck?

#23
GoldenEagle

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i don't understand.. he was talking anti gay so what was the end.. ?


In the end BigBear he states he was reading something against bi-racial marriages from the 1950's or 1960's. He asks the council to "do the right thing" by giving homosexuals the right to marry or something of that nature.

#24
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If 'marriage' is merely a constract between parties, as our secular government wishes to 'define' it, then that federal government which has assurped the right to define marriage can certainly decide who can be 'married' in its view.

If marriage is a spiritual covenant entered into before God, then the government has ABSOLUTELY NO SAY IN IT WHATSOEVER.


This is true. However, what do we do with the benefits that are government provided? How do we deal with that?


Care to list a few of those Ruck?


I got this list from someone else, and it is just a few. I believe that they mentioned there is something like 1000 rights federally, and over 400 state rights..before are some of those listed. Now I'm not saying I agree with the Marriage aspect. But how do we handle some of the government provided benefits that come go along with marriage.

joint parenting;

joint adoption;

joint foster care, custody, and visitation (including non-biological parents);

status as next-of-kin for hospital visits and medical decisions where one partner is too ill to be competent;

joint insurance policies for home, auto and health;

dissolution and divorce protections such as community property and child support;

immigration and residency for partners from other countries;

inheritance automatically in the absence of a will;

joint leases with automatic renewal rights in the event one partner dies or leaves the house or apartment;

inheritance of jointly-owned real and personal property through the right of survivorship (which avoids the time and expense and taxes in probate);

benefits such as annuities, pension plans, Social Security, and Medicare;

spousal exemptions to property tax increases upon the death of one partner who is a co-owner of the home;

veterans' discounts on medical care, education, and home loans; joint filing of tax returns;

joint filing of customs claims when traveling;

wrongful death benefits for a surviving partner and children;

bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child;

decision-making power with respect to whether a deceased partner will be cremated or not and where to bury him or her;

#25
GoldenEagle

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Well, what to do about this list then? Possible to call it something other than marriage with these same legal rights? Curious.

#26
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Well, what to do about this list then? Possible to call it something other than marriage with these same legal rights? Curious.


I have held that view for a bit now. I don't agree with calling a union between sames sexes marriage. But if we are saying the government should not be in marriage, then neither should the benefits that are provided. It's a slippery slope, and if a common ground can't be found then I am sure that all 50 states will soon allow homosexuals to call what they have marriage.

#27
Matthitjah

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Well, what to do about this list then? Possible to call it something other than marriage with these same legal rights? Curious.


I have held that view for a bit now. I don't agree with calling a union between sames sexes marriage. But if we are saying the government should not be in marriage, then neither should the benefits that are provided. It's a slippery slope, and if a common ground can't be found then I am sure that all 50 states will soon allow homosexuals to call what they have marriage.


Here's the problem with your perspective. The reason that those benefits were initially given to Marriage as God defined it is that we once understood the benefit of Godly Marriage to the society. This is why the society chose as a whole to promote it.

There are definate negative consequences to an unGoldy definition of Marrige and to promoting such.

You see, it is not an issue of moral equivalency as some would have it.

#28
Matthitjah

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I would ask a question.

Why did the Govrnment initially give a tax break for mortgage interest deduction?

#29
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I would ask a question.

Why did the Govrnment initially give a tax break for mortgage interest deduction?


I'm sorry but I must say I find it rather odd that you want questions answered that may be related, to the OP but when it comes to yours you refuse. But I do want to address your previous reply. The issue with what you are saying is it is still government issued benefits. So we either want government out of the marriage business, which would include benefits. The benefits can't be seperated from government, but marriage can be seperated from both. Because they are not a requirement to be married.

#30
Matthitjah

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I would ask a question.

Why did the Govrnment initially give a tax break for mortgage interest deduction?


I'm sorry but I must say I find it rather odd that you want questions answered that may be related, to the OP but when it comes to yours you refuse. But I do want to address your previous reply. The issue with what you are saying is it is still government issued benefits. So we either want government out of the marriage business, which would include benefits. The benefits can't be seperated from government, but marriage can be seperated from both. Because they are not a requirement to be married.

It's related.

The reason that we give ebenfits to Godly Marriage is because we, at one time, wanted to promote it for the good of the society.

The reason that we give a mortgage interest deduction is because we want to promote home ownership because it is good for the society as a whole. It is also directly related to the first premise in that the nuclear Godly family needs a domicile in order for it to function safely and properly.

The problem is that none of this is about equal rights. It never has been. It's about destroying the very basis of a society and the foundations of this Nation. If it were about equal rights then Nations in which it has been practiced for over twenty years now would see an equivalency if not an outright plethora of this kind of Marriage. However, they don't and facts show that there is less Marriage of both kinds because the very core reason for being Married is diluted.

It's about the enemy's designs for your children in a spiritual sense. Overall, the rest of the society is just playing into his hands as more and more of our society becomes morally relevant. Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of people are being delivered into hell as it enlarges its mouth.

#31
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The reason that we give a mortgage interest deduction is because we want to promote home ownership because it is good for the society as a whole. It is also directly related to the first premise in that the nuclear Godly family needs a domicile in order for it to function safely and properly.


Didn't the housing crash have something to do with mortgage interest rates (but thats neither here nor there)? The problem is and will be that the government provides these benefits, and salaries that homosexuals (who are apart of society) make go into the taxes that help the governement provide the benefits.

#32
Matthitjah

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The reason that we give a mortgage interest deduction is because we want to promote home ownership because it is good for the society as a whole. It is also directly related to the first premise in that the nuclear Godly family needs a domicile in order for it to function safely and properly.


Didn't the housing crash have something to do with mortgage interest rates (but thats neither here nor there)? The problem is and will be that the government provides these benefits, and salaries that homosexuals (who are apart of society) make go into the taxes that help the governement provide the benefits.


I said Mortgage interest deductions. I'm not sure why you're mentioning the mortgage crash which was caused by Leftist Progressive policy's.

Regardless, You've just demonstarted my point. You have just given moral equivalency to Homosexual Marriage.

#33
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The reason that we give a mortgage interest deduction is because we want to promote home ownership because it is good for the society as a whole. It is also directly related to the first premise in that the nuclear Godly family needs a domicile in order for it to function safely and properly.


Didn't the housing crash have something to do with mortgage interest rates (but thats neither here nor there)? The problem is and will be that the government provides these benefits, and salaries that homosexuals (who are apart of society) make go into the taxes that help the governement provide the benefits.


I said Mortgage interest deductions. I'm not sure why you're mentioning the mortgage crash which was caused by Leftist Progressive policy's.

Regardless, You've just demonstarted my point. You have just given moral equivalency to Homosexual Marriage.


Not really I just was throwing a sideline comment out. It really didn't matter due to the subject. This has been the attitude of late. So can you answer these simple questions

Does the government provide the benefits that married people have?

Do homosexuals taxes help provide for these benefits?

My stance is clear on homosexual marriage. My stance is also clear on the benefit situation.

#34
Cobalt1959

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Not really I just was throwing a sideline comment out. It really didn't matter due to the subject. This has been the attitude of late. So can you answer these simple questions

Does the government provide the benefits that married people have?

Do homosexuals taxes help provide for these benefits?

My stance is clear on homosexual marriage. My stance is also clear on the benefit situation.


No, it is not, especially when you are not speaking out against it. As a Christian, no one should ever give even the appearance of supporting, or even being ambivalent about a moral issue such as this.

The fact that homosexuals pay taxes is irrelevant. Everyone pays taxes, irregardless of their sexual orientation, unless they are welfare recipients leeching off of the system. A married man and woman receive tax benefits for more reasons than simply buying a house. The nation was founded on the Judeo-Christian concept that marriage is between one man and one woman. It doesn't matter that 1 or 2% of the population has decided they want to change that. It is just one step in the moral decay process. Then there will be another group behind them. And another group behind them, until there are no boundaries left. Just because it will happen eventually no matter what we do is no reason to hasten the process.

#35
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Not really I just was throwing a sideline comment out. It really didn't matter due to the subject. This has been the attitude of late. So can you answer these simple questions

Does the government provide the benefits that married people have?

Do homosexuals taxes help provide for these benefits?

My stance is clear on homosexual marriage. My stance is also clear on the benefit situation.


No, it is not, especially when you are not speaking out against it. As a Christian, no one should ever give even the appearance of supporting, or even being ambivalent about a moral issue such as this.

The fact that homosexuals pay taxes is irrelevant.


I have been very clear, in this thread as well as other I have not supported homosexual marriage in the slightest. Now rather than avoiding the questions I have asked how about answering them.
l
I will also present two more.

Should the government being involved in biblical marriage?

Do we have any other history of any government being involved in biblical marriage? (meaning giving benefits for it)

#36
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Does the government provide the benefits that married people have?

Do homosexuals taxes help provide for these benefits?

Should the government being involved in biblical marriage?

Do we have any other history of any government being involved in biblical marriage? (meaning giving benefits for it)


Four questions I posed earlier.




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