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Israel's Promise and Being Grafted In...

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#1
GoldenEagle

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According to the Bible in the OT Israel was composed of 1) the descendents of Jacob (Ex. 1:1, Josh. 13:6) and 2) those who joined Israel by circumcision and upholding the law.

(Ex. 12:48) Caleb (Joshua 14:6-7) was the son of Jephunneh the Kenizzite is an example of one who joined Israel.

The two questions becomes: A. How do we know Israel is God’s chosen people? And B. Are Christians grafted into God’s promise to Israel?

But first a comment on Scripture comparison and isolation...

1. Scripture Comparison: To obtain the correct teaching of any passage we must compare all (or at least a majority) other Scriptures that pertain to the same subject or verse in question. When all Scriptures pertaining to the same subject agree, then we have the correct teaching of that subject or verse. If not, then we have a wrong interpretation or application of the verse or subject in question. This would then lead to a false teaching perpetuated upon the unsuspecting congregation or audience. Since all Scripture is given by "inspiration of God" (2nd Timothy 3:16), there can be no error or contradiction in God's Word. This is why Peter declared…

2 Peter 1:20
“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,”


I question what others teach and I'm comparing what people say to the Bible (Acts 17:11, 1 Thess. 5:21). We should all do this do you agree? Please feel free to do this for me as well. ;)

The Bareans did this. Perhaps I've become somewhat of a Barean in searching the Scriptures. (Acts 17:11)

Acts 17:11
These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.



2. Isolation Of One Passage and Context: This does not mean that one cannot understand the Scriptures for themselves. It does warn against anyone building a doctrine on one, isolated, verse without comparing all other verses on the same subject. This is why the Holy Spirit inspired Paul in 2 Tim. 2:15 to emphasize the value of studying the Word of God for one's self as a “worker” for the Lord so we might understand the truth found in the Bible.

2 Timothy 2:15
“Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”


Plus we're told to question everything and hold onto what is good. (1 Thess. 5:21)

1 Thess. 5:21
Test all things; hold fast to what is good.




Thoughts? Do you agree or disagree?

Anything to add?
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#2
GoldenEagle

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A. How do we know Israel is God’s chosen people?

Posted Image

3. Text Re – Israel as God’s Chosen People: Israel is God’s chosen people. Deut. 7:6 speaks of God’s chosen people. Deut. 7:8 tells us God loves Israel. Deut. 6:3-4 reveals this was spoken to Israel. Who was Israel? Those who came out of Egypt with Moses as seen in Deut. 7:8. There is a very similar verse in Deut. 14.2.

Deut. 7:6-8
6 “For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth. 7 The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; 8 but because the Lord loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

Deut. 6:3-4
3 Therefore hear, O Israel, and be careful to observe it, that it may be well with you, and that you may multiply greatly as the Lord God of your fathers has promised you—‘a land flowing with milk and honey.’
4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!

Deut. 14.2
For you are a holy people to the Lord your God, and the Lord has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.


In 1 Chron. 16:13 God refers to “His chosen ones” in reference to Israel and the descendants of Jacob.

1 Chron. 16:13
O seed of Israel His servant, You children of Jacob, His chosen ones!


David referred to Israel as God’s chosen nation and inheritance (Ps. 33:12) even though they sinned (Ps. 106:6), yet God delivered them. ( Ps. 100:43.)

Ps. 33:12
Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord, the people He has chosen as His own inheritance.

Ps. 106:6
We have sinned with our fathers,
We have committed iniquity,
We have done wickedly.


Ps. 106:43
Many times He delivered them;
But they rebelled in their counsel,
And were brought low for their iniquity.


Is. 44:1 God refers to Israel as “my servant, my chosen people.” Isaiah records in Is. 48:12 as “My called.”

Is. 44:1
“Yet hear now, O Jacob My servant,
And Israel whom I have chosen.

Is. 48:12
“Listen to Me, O Jacob,
And Israel, My called:
I am He, I am the First,
I am also the Last.


The covenant established with Israel was an everlasting covenant. (Gen. 17:7)

Genesis 17:7
And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you.




Thoughts? Do you agree or disagree?

Anything to add?
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#3
GoldenEagle

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B. Are Christians grafted into God’s promise to Israel?

Posted Image

4. Text Re – Christians are Grafted Into Israel: God promised to Abraham a land, a great nation, a great name, and a blessing that would include all the families of the earth. (Gen. 12:1-3)

Gen. 12:1-3
Now the Lord had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
2 I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.


The promise of the blessing was originally for the Jews (Israel) through the line of Jesse. (Isa. 11:1-2)

Isa. 11:1-2
1 There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse,
And a Branch shall grow out of his roots.
2 The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him,
The Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The Spirit of counsel and might,
The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.


Jesus Christ who was Messiah foretold (Gen. 12:3, Dan. 7:13, Is. 7:14, Is. 9:6) in the OT died for all people that all should no longer live for themselves but for God through Jesus Christ. (2 Cor. 5:14-15)

Dan. 7:13
I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.

Is. 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Is. 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

2 Cor 5:14-15
14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.


God revealed that those who Believed in Jesus Christ would be grafted into the promise made to Israel. (Rom. 1:16)

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Gentile {Greek}.


The Uncircumcised (Gentiles - (Eph 2: 11) are now a part of the Circumcision (God’s chosen people of promise - Israel) through Christ’s atonement sacrifice of blood (and his life) for our sins at the cross (Eph 2: 13).

Eph. 2:11-13
We Are Brought Near by His Blood
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.


In Christ we have peace (Eph. 2:14). As Christians both Jews and Gentiles are made one. (Eph. 2:14) When we accept Christ as our Savior and Lord he reconciles us through the cross putting to death the enmity between us (mankind) and God. (Eph. 2:16) Both Jews and Gentiles in Christ have access to the Holy Spirit of the Father. (Eph. 2:18)

Eph. 2:14-18
Christ Is Our Peace
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.





Thoughts? Do you agree or disagree?

Anything to add?
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#4
OldShep

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The two questions becomes: A. How do we know Israel is God’s chosen people? And B. Are Christians grafted into God’s promise to Israel?


Well now, since you ask questions and then use the Bible to back up your belief what can I say, but that I agree with your take on what God has stated in His Word.
Posted Image

The passages that you listed would be the ones I would use to back up my thoughts on the questions. Salvation comes to the Jews first then to us Gentiles, I have been adopted twice have you, once into my worldly family and then into God chosen people.

I like to paraphase it this way;
{For it is by Grace that I have been saved, through Faith, and this was not of myself it was a Gift from God, so I can not boast. For I am God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for me to do. Once dead I now live through the blood of Christ.}

There is no mystery that us gentiles have been brought into the family, made one in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Eph 3:1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—
Eph 3:2 Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you,
Eph 3:3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly.
Eph 3:4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
Eph 3:5 which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets.
Eph 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

ICL~~~Dennis
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what is God's promise to Israel??? just what (in your own words) did he promise them?
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GoldenEagle

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what is God's promise to Israel??? just what (in your own words) did he promise them?


Not sure if this is directed to me... But here it is again - God promised to Abraham a land, a great nation, a great name, and a blessing that would include all the families of the earth. (Gen. 12:1-3)

I'm not sure what the purpose of the question is? Possible to rephrase?
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#7
shiloh357

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what is God's promise to Israel??? just what (in your own words) did he promise them?


Not sure if this is directed to me... But here it is again - God promised to Abraham a land, a great nation, a great name, and a blessing that would include all the families of the earth. (Gen. 12:1-3)

I'm not sure what the purpose of the question is? Possible to rephrase?


God's Promises To Israel:

I have posted this on another thread a long time ago. It is not original with me, but I dont have the link for it. I will try to find the link, but here is the essense of what I posted years ago. God has made a lot of promises to Israel.

ABRAHAM [FATHER OF FAITH] AND G-D'S EVERLASTING COVENANT OF PROMISE
Genesis 12:1-4; Genesis 12:7; Genesis 13:14-17; Genesis 15:1-21; Genesis 17:1-21; Genesis 18:10-14; Genesis 21:5; Genesis 22:15-18;
Genesis 24:7; Genesis 25:5; Genesis 26:3-5; Genesis 28:12-15; Genesis 35:10-12; Genesis 48:3-4; Genesis 50:24-25; Exodus 6:7-8;
Exodus 13:11; Exodus 32:13; Exodus 33:1; Leviticus 25:23, 38; Leviticus 26:42; Numbers 14:21-23; Numbers 32:10-11; Numbers 33:51-54; Deuteronomy 1:8; Deuteronomy 1:35; Deuteronomy 4:21; 31; Deuteronomy 6:10, 18, 23; Deuteronomy 7:8-13; Deuteronomy 8:1, 18;
Deuteronomy 9:5; Deuteronomy 10:11; Deuteronomy 11:9, 21; Deuteronomy 13:17; Deuteronomy 19:8; Deuteronomy 26:3;
Deuteronomy 28:9-11; Deuteronomy 29:13; Deuteronomy 30:20; Deuteronomy 31:7, 20-21; Deuteronomy34:4; Joshua 1:6; Joshua 5:6;
Joshua 14:9; Joshua 21:43; Judges 2:1; Nehemiah 9:6-15; Psalm 89:3, 35; Psalm 106:6-12; Psalm 119:106; Isaiah 14:24; Isaiah 45:22-25;
Isaiah 62:8; Jeremiah 11:5; Micah 7:20; Romans 4:3; Galatians 3:6-9; Galatians 3:16-18; Hebrews 6:13; Hebrews 11:8-21; James 2:21-23;

G-D CHOSE THE JEWISH PEOPLE. ONCE G-D MAKES A CHOICE, HE STANDS BY IT!

A PEOPLE [CHOSEN] OF G-D
Exodus 6:7; Exodus 29:45-46; Deuteronomy 4:37; Deuteronomy 7:6-8; Deuteronomy 14:2; I Samuel 12:22; I kings 3:8; I Chronicles 16:13;
II Chronicles 7:16; Psalm 33:12; Psalm 105:6; Isaiah 43:10; Isaiah 45:1,2-3; Isaiah 48:12; Isaiah 51:15-16; Romans 3:1-2

A PEOPLE EXALTED ABOVE ALL NATIONS:
Deuteronomy 26:19

A PEOPLE FIRMLY ESTABLISHED:
Deuteronomy 28:9; II Chronicles 9:8; II Chronicles 20:20; Isaiah 54:14

"ANI LEDODI V'DODI LEE" - "I AM MY BELOVED'S AND MY BELOVED IS MINE"
(Song of Solomon 6:3)


A PEOPLE WHOSE HOPE IS PLANTED IN THEIR G-D
Psalm 137:5-6; Isaiah 43:1-7; Isaiah 40-1-8;

A PEOPLE PROMISED GREATNESS:
Isaiah 2:2-4; Isaiah 9:6-7; Hosea 2:19-20; Zephaniah 3:14-20; Zechariah 8:23; Zechariah 14:16


A PEOPLE WHO CANNOT BE MOVED:
Exodus 1:7; Leviticus 26:44-45

A REMNANT WILL BE SAVED IN HER:
Isaiah 1:9; Isaiah 11:11, 16; Isaiah 37:4, 31-32; Jeremiah 6:9; Jeremiah 23:3; Jeremiah 31:7; Ezekiel 14:22; Micah 2:12; Micah 5:3;
Zephaniah 2:7-9; Romans 9:27; Romans 11:5

WHEN G-D MAKES A COVENANT, HE KEEPS IT!

BELIEVERS IN THE COVENANT:
Isaiah 42:6; Hosea 1:10; Isaiah 59: 20-21; Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 11:17-20; Romans 11:26-32


"REAL LOVE COSTS EVERYTHING, COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY. I HAVE MADE A COVENANT TO LOVE ISRAEL
AND TO PAY WHATEVER PRICE THAT WILL BE REQUIRED OF ME. I'M NOT THE ONLY ARAB WHO MAY SAY THIS;
THERE ARE A FEW; AND I'M NOT THE ONLY CHRISTIAN, THERE ARE MILLIONS"

(Widad van der Hoeven - Biblical Dinner - September 1980)

BELOVED OF ALL G-D'S PEOPLE:
Nehemiah 1:2-4; Nehemiah 2:5-6; Psalm 122:6; Psalm 137:5-6; Isaiah 62:1; Isaiah 66:10

BIBLICAL BASIS FOR THE EXODUS OF THE SOVIET JEWS
Deuteronomy 30:3-6; Isaiah 11:11-12; Isaiah 43:5-6; Ezekiel 11:17; Jeremiah 3:11-25; Jeremiah 16:14-16; Jeremiah 23:3; Jeremiah 31:7-10;
Zechariah 10:8-10; Zechariah 2:8-9


BIRTH OF MESSIAH IN THE LAND OF PROMISE FORETOLD:
Micah 5:2; Daniel 7:13-14

[CALLED] OF G-D TO BLESS NATIONS:
Genesis 17:16; Genesis 18:18; Genesis 35:11; Genesis 22:18; Exodus 34:24; Leviticus 18:28; Numbers 14:15; Deuteronomy 4:6, 38;
Deuteronomy 9:4-5; Deuteronomy 11:23; Deuteronomy 15:6; Deuteronomy 32:43; Joshua 23:3-9; Judges 2:21; Judges 3:1; II Samuel 7:23;
I Chronicles 17:21; Psalm 47:3; Psalm 67:4; Psalm 72:11-17; Psalm 135:10; Isaiah 29:7-8; Isaiah 41:2; Isaiah 60:16; Isaiah 66:12;
Habakkuk 3:6; Malachi 3:12; Acts 10:45; Acts 11:1, 18; Acts 15:7- 17; Romans 4:17-18; Galatians 3:8; Colossians 1:27


JERUSALEM IS, AND WILL FOREVER REMAIN, THE ETERNAL CAPITAL OF THE JEWISH NATION AND
THE ETERNAL CAPITAL OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL


[CHOSEN] JERUSALEM AS CITY OF G-D:
Deuteronomy 16:11; I Kings 8:48; II Kings 21:7; II Chronicles 7:16; II Chronicles 16:13; II Chronicles 36:22-23; Nehemiah 1:9; Psalm 51:18;
Psalm 128:5; Psalm 147:12-14; Isaiah 22:21-25; Isaiah 40:2; Isaiah 41:27; Isaiah 44:26-28; Isaiah 51:17; Isaiah 52:1-4; Isaiah 62:6-7;
Isaiah 65:18-19; Isaiah 66:10; Jeremiah 2:2; Jeremiah 4:3-4, 14; Jeremiah 5:1; Jeremiah 6:8; Jeremiah 11:6; Jeremiah 15:5; Jeremiah 17:26;
Jeremiah 27:18; Jeremiah 34:8; Jeremiah 51:50; Ezekiel 8:3; Ezekiel 9:4; Zephaniah 1:12; Zechariah 3:2; Zechariah 7:7; Zechariah 12:6-11

[CHOSEN] OF G-D TO BLESS NATIONS:
Psalm 2:6; Psalm 9:11; Pslam 20:2; Psalm 50:2; Psalm 76:2; Psalm 128:5; Pslam 132: 13-14; Psalm 135:21; Psalm 146:10; Isaiah 2:3;
Isaiah 28:16; Isaiah 30:19; Isaiah 35:10; Isaiah 46:13; Isaiah 50:20; Isaiah 51:3; Isaiah 52:7-8; Joel 2:22-23; Joel 3:16-17; Micah 4:2;
Zechariah 2:6-9

IF I AM NOT FOR MYSELF, WHO WILL BE ? IF I AM ONLY FOR MYSELF, WHAT AM I?IF NOT NOW, WHEN?
[Rabbi Hillel]

CITY OF DAVID:
I Kings 8:1; I Chronicles 15:1, 29; II Chronicles 5:2

CONQUERED BY KING DAVID:
II Samuel 24:19-21

"YOU HAVE A GREAT JOB TO DO, TO CONVINCE THE WORLD THAT THIS CITY MUST NEVER BE DIVIDED AGAIN"
[Teddy Kollek - Mayor of Jerusalem - October 1981]

DAVID'S CAPITAL:
I King 15:4; II Kings 19:34; II Chronicles 6:6; II Chronicles 12:13; Zachariah 14:8-9, 16

DIVINE REBUILDING AND RESTORATION PROMISED:
Psalm 69:35-36; Psalm 102:13-16; Psalm 126:1-6; Isaiah 1:25-27; Isaiah 4:2-6; Isaiah 11:12; Isaiah 25:6-10; Isaiah 26:1-2, 12;
Isaiah 29:18-24; Isaiah 30:18-26; Isaiah 32:15-18; Isaiah 33:24; Isaiah 35:1-10; Isaiah 41:19; Isaiah 44:26-28; Isaiah 49:6-23; Isaiah 51:3-11;
Isaiah 52:1-9; Isaiah 58:12; Isaiah 60:1,10-15; Isaiah 61:4; Isaiah 62:2-3; Isaiah 66:11-14; Jeremiah 24:6-7; Jeremiah 27:22; Jeremiah 30:3-18;
Jeremiah 31:38-40; Jeremiah 32:37-44; Jeremiah 33:7-12; Ezekiel 16:60; Ezekiel 20:40-41; Ezekiel 36:8-38; Ezekiel 37:10-28;
Daniel 9:25; Joel 2:25-27; Joel 3:1-2;, 12-14 Joel; 3:20-21; Micah 5:3; Haggai 2:3-9; Zephaniah 2:7; Zephaniah 3:14-16; Zechariah 1:14-17; Zechariah 2:1-5, 7, 10; Zechariah 8:1-16; Zechariah 9:9; Zechariah 10:6-10; Zechariah 14:10; Malachi 3:4; Revelation 7:4-8



ETERNAL CITY OF G-D:
Jeremiah 17:25; Ezekiel 37:25-28

ERETZ YISRAEL L'AM YISRAEL -- THE LAND OF ISRAEL BELONGS TO THE JEWISH PEOPLE

EVERLASTING COVENANT:
Genesis 17:7-8; Genesis 26:3-4; Genesis 35:11-12; Psalms 105:7-11; Jeremiah 30:3; Jeremiah 33:23-26

FROM WHERE THE DELIVERER WILL COME:
Romans 11:26

GATHERING AND RESTORATION PROMISED:
Deuteronomy 30:1-5; Psalms 50:2-6; Pslam 106:16; Psalms 106:47; 107:2-3; ; Isaiah 11:1-12; Isaiah 27:8-12; Isaiah 43:4-9;
Isaiah 45:17-20; Isaiah 49:5-22; Isaiah 51:11-12; Isaiah 60:4-5; Isaiah 62:10-12; Isaiah 66:19-22; Jeremiah 23:6-8; Jeremiah 29:11-14;
Jeremiah 30:17-18; Jeremiah 32:39-42; Jeremiah 33:6-14; Jeremiah 46:27-28; Ezekiel 11:16-20; Ezekiel 20:33-42; Ezekiel 28:25-26;
Ezekiel 34:12-13; Ezekiel 36:24-28; Ezekiel 37:1-14, & 21-22; Joel 2:32; Joel 3:1-7; Micah 2:12; Micah 4:6-12; Jeremiah 31:3-4;
Zephaniah 3:16-20; Zechariah 8:3-8; Amos 9:14-15; Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27; Luke 2:34; Acts 1:6; Acts 3:19-21; Hebrews 11:8-10

GATHERING OF THE NATIONS TO ZION:
Psalm 22:27-28; Psalm 86:9; Isaiah 2:2-3; Isaiah 5:26; Isaiah 11:10; Isaiah 43:9; Isaiah 45:20; Isaiah 55:5; Isaiah 60:1-5; Isaiah 66:18;
Jeremiah 3:17; Jeremiah 16:19; Jereiah 30:7; Joel 3:12; Micah 4:2-3; Zephaniah 3:8; Haggai 2:7; Zechariah 8:22-23; Zechariah 12:3;
Zechariah 14:2-5



G-D'S ELECT:
Luke 18:7; Romans 8:33

G-D'S FIRSTBORN SON:
Exodus 4:22-23; Exodus 12:29-30

"WHEN PEOPLE CRITICIZE ZIONISTS THEY MEAN JEWS, YOU ARE TALKING ANTI-SEMITISM."
[Dr. Martin Luther King, 1968 Harvard University]

G-D'S HOLY PEOPLE:
Exodus 3:7; Exodus 10:3; Deuteronomy 7:6; Deuteronomy 14:2, 21



HOUSE OF G-D:
Isaiah 2:3


HOUSE OF ISRAEL:
Exodus 40:38; Joshua 21:45; II Samuel 6:5; Psalm 98:3; Psalm 135:19; Isaiah 63:7; Jeremiah 18:1-6; Jeremiah 31:31-37; Jeremiah 33:14;
Hosea 1:10; Amos 5:4; Hebrews 8:8-12

HOUSE OF PRAYER:
Isaiah 56:7; Matthew 21:13

HOUSE OF SACRIFICE:
II Chronicles 7:12


"I BELIEVE IN THE SUN EVEN WHEN IT IS NOT SHINING.
I BELIEVE IN LOVE EVEN WHEN NOT FEELING IT. I BELIEVE IN G-D EVEN WHEN HE IS SILENT --

[Inscription found etched on a wall in Polland during WWII]

INGATHERING FROM THE NATIONS:
Genesis 49:10; Exodus 19:4; Deuteronomy 29:16; Deuteronomy 30:3; Isaiah 11:10-14; Isaiah 27:13; Isaiah 43:5-6; Isaiah 45:6;
Isaiah 45:11-13; Isaiah 49:12; Isaiah 49:22-23; Isaiah 51:11; Isaiah 66:8; Jeremiah 3:14-18; Jeremiah 12:14-16; Jeremiah 16:14-16;
Jeremiah 23:3; Jeremiah 29:14; Jeremiah 30:1-3; Jeremiah 31:10-17; Jeremiah 33:19-26; Jeremiah 43:5; Ezekiel 20:33-36; Ezekiel 38:8;
Ezekiel 36:24; Amos 3:7; Amos 9 14-15; Zechariah 2:8

ISRAEL'S L-RD G-D, SAVIOUR, REDEEMER, AND KING
Genesis 1814; Exodus 3:11-15; Exodus 15:26; Isaiah 45:15; Isaiah 45:17; Psalm 2; Psalm 5:2; Psalm 10:16; Psalm 24:7-10; Psalm 38:18-22;
Psalm 40:7; Psalm 45:6; Psalm 47:7; Psalm 77:2-3; Psalm 102:6, 19; Psalm 107:20; Isaiah 6:1-5; Isaiah 7:14; Isaiah 9:6; Isaiah 40:3-9;
Isaiah 40:28; Isaiah 44:5-6; Isaiah 45:22-25; Isaiah 46:9-10; Isaiah 48:10-12; Isaiah 49:22; Isaiah 60:17; Jeremiah 23:3-8; Jeremiah 30:8-11;
Jeremiah 31:8-11; Jeremiah 31:31-34; Jeremiah 50:33-34; Ezekiel 36:24-28; Joel 2:28-29; Zechariah 6:12-13; Zechariah 14:16;
Malachi 3:6; ; Matthew 25:31-46; John 1:1; John 8:58; Acts 10:36-38; I Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 10:7; Jude 24-25; Revelation 1:8;
Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 19:16; Revelation 21:6-7; Revelation 22:12-16

O' L-RD, GIVE US A WINDOW TO THE WORLD, ON BEHALF OF ISRAEL AND HER PEOPLE"

JERUSALEM: PAST, PRESENT, FUTURE:
Psalm 48:2; Psalm 48:12-13; Psalm 102:14; Psalm 122:3; Psalm 125:2; Song of Songs 6:4; Isaiah 33:20-21; Isaiah 60:18; Ezekiel 5:5;
Micah 4:8; Zechariah 2:4

JESHURUN:
Isaiah 44:2

LAND OF IMMANUEL:
Isaiah 8:8

LAND OF ISRAEL:
Deuteronomy 32:8; I Samuel 13:19; Psalm 24:1; Ezekiel 36:24; Ezekiel 38:16; Amos 9:15; Joel 3:2



LAND OF PROMISE:
Genesis 12:7; Genesis 13:15; Genesis 15:7, 18; Genesis 17:8; Genesis 50:24; Genesis 13:10; Exodus 3:8; Exodus 6:8; Numbers 13:27;
Numbers 14:8; Deuteronomy 6:10; Deuteronomy 8:7-10; Deuteronomy 11:9-12; Joshua 5:6; Judges 2:1; Jeremiah 2:7; Hebrews 11:9
Genesis 40:15


"ANYONE WHO TRULY BELIEVES THE WORD OF G-D, BE HE JEW OR CHRISTIAN, SHOULD BE ABLE TO AFFIRM
HE IS A ZIONIST" --
[Michael Ford]


LAND OF THE JEWS:
Acts 10:39

THE NAME OF THE LAND IS "ISRAEL" NOT PALESTINE!
Ezekiel 37:11-12; 38:18

LAW OF G-D WRITTEN UPON THEIR HEARTS
Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:10

L-RD G-D OF THE HEBREWS:
Exodus 10:3


"I BELIEVE WITH PERFECT FAITH IN THE COMING OF MESSIAH, AND THOUGH HE TARRY,
NEVERTHELESS DO I BELIEVE

[Maimonides]

MESSIAH'S EVERLASTING KINGDOM:
Isaiah 2:1-5; Joel 3:1, 17-18; Amos 9:9-15; Obadiah 1:17; Zechariah 14:4-11



MOUNT MORIAH:
II Chronicles 3:1

"HAVENU SHALOM ALECHEM" --"WE BRING PEACE TO YOU"

MOUNT ZION OF G-D:
Exodus 15:17-18; II Kings 19:31; Psalm 15:1; Psalm 48:1-3; Psalm 74:2; Psalm 78:68; Psalm 87:1; Psalm 99:2; Psalm 102:16;
Psalm 125:1-2; Psalm 128:5; Psalm 133:3; Psalm 137:4; Psalm 147:12-14; Isaiah 2:2-3; Isaiah 4:5; Isaiah 8:18; Isaiah 10:12;
Isaiah 11:9; Isaiah 14:32; Isaiah 24:23; Isaiah 25:6-10; Isaiah 29:7-8; Isaiah 30:29; Isaiah 31:4-5, 9; Isaiah 37:32; Isaiah 40:9;
Isaiah 49:14-16; Isaiah 56:7; Isaiah 57:13; Isaiah 65:25; Isaiah 66:20; Jeremiah 31:23; Ezekiel 17:22-23; Ezekiel 20:40; Ezekiel 43:12;
Daniel 9:16-21; Joel 2:1; Joel 3:17-18; Joel 2:32; Amos 1:2; Obadiah 1:16-21; Micah 4:1-2, 7; Zephaniah 3:11; Haggai 1:8; Zechariah 8:3;
Hebrews 12:22; Revelation 14:1

NAME USED FOR JERUSALEM:
Psalm 87:2-5; Psalm 149:2; Song of Songs 3:11; Isaiah 33:14, 20; Jeremiah 30:17


"LE-SHANNAH HA-BA'AH B' YERUSHALAYIM!" --
"NEXT YEAR IN JERUSALEM!"


NATION UNDER MESSIAH'S RULE:
Numbers 24:17-19; Isaiah 9:6-7; Isaiah 11:1-3; Isaiah 11: 10-16; Isaiah 12:1-5; Isaiah 28:5; Isaiah 55:4-5; Isaiah 59:20-21;
Daniel 7:13-14, 27; Daniel 2:44-45: Hosea 3:4-5; Micah 5:2; Zechariah 9:9-10; Zechariah 14:9; Malachi 3:1-3; Luke 1:32-33;
Revelation 5:10; Revelation 11:15; Revelation 20:4-6; Revelation 21:1-5; Revelation 21:22-27; Revelation 22:1-5

PROPHECIES GIVEN:
Genesis 15:5, 13-14; Genesis 26:4; Genesis 27:28-29


" SHEMA YISROEL; ADONAI ELOHENU ADONAI ECHOD"
"HEAR O' ISRAEL; THE L-RD OUR G-D IS ONE L-RD"
Deuteronomy 6:4-5; Mark 12:29-31

SIGNIFICANT AND PRECIOUS TO ALL OF G-D'S PEOPLE:
Jeremiah 31:6; Zechariah 8:2-3

STRANGERS IN ISRAEL:
Exodus 22:21; Leviticus 19:33:34; Leviticus 25:35; Numbers 15:15-16, 26; Numbers 35:15; Deuteronomy 1:16; Deuteronomy 10:19;
Deuteronomy 19:18; Deuteronomy 23:7; Deuteronomy 24:14-19; Deuteronomy 26:12-13; Deuteronomy 27:19; Joshua 20:9; Ruth 2:10;
II Chronicles 2:17; II Chronicles 15:9; Job 31:32; Psalm 146:9; Isaiah 14:1; Jeremiah 7:6-7; Jeremiah 22:3; Ezekiel 22:29;
Ezekiel 47:22-23; Zechariah 7:10; Malachi 3:5; Hebrews 13:2

"YOUR PRESENCE HAS NOT ONLY CAUSED US TO REMEMBER, IT HAS CAUSED US TO BE COMFORTED"
(President Navon - September 1980)

STRANGERS AND RESTORATION:
Isaiah 60:10; Isaiah 61:5; Romans 15:6-12


"SEEING YOU MAKE THIS TREMENDOUS EFFORT TO COME, SHOWING YOUR SYMPATHY, SOLIDARITY, AND
BELIEF IN THE FUTURE OF ISRAEL, THIS TO US IS TREMENDOUS. WE BLESS YOU AND CONSIDER YOU A PART
OF THE ACCOMPLISHMENT OF THE PROPHETIC VISION SPOKEN OF BY ZECHARIAH IN CHAPTER 14"

(Chief Rabbi Shlomo Goren - September 1980)

STRANGERS: WORSHIPPING WITH:
Deuteronomy 6:11,14; Deuteronomy 26:11; Deuteronomy 29:10-13; Deuteronomy 31:12; Joshua 8:33-35; I Kings 8:41-43;
I Chronicles 6:32-33; II Chronicles 30:25; Jeremiah 31:7-8

"YOUR SUPREME CONTRIBUTION IS FAITH IN THE WORD OF THE G-D OF ISRAEL"
(Menachem Savidor - Speaker of the Knesset - October 1981)


THE HOLY LAND:
Zechariah 2:12

THE NATION AND ITS PROMISES:
Psalm 14:7; Psalm 51:1-3; Psalm 53:6; Psalm 85:1-9; Isaiah 44:21-23: Isaiah 45:17; Isaiah 51:5-8; Isaiah 66:4; Jeremiah 17:13-14;
Jeremiah 50:19-20; Daniel 12:1; Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:26-27


THRUST TO ALL NATIONS:
Deuteronomy 28:37; I Chronicles 16:31; Isaiah 45:1-3; Isaiah 49:6; Isaiah 52:10-15; Isaiah 64:2; Isaiah 66:19; Jeremiah 1:10; Jeremiah 4:2;
Jeremiah 10:7; Jeremiah 25:14-31; Jeremiah 31:7; Jeremiah 33:9; Ezekiel 38:23; Zechariah 2:8-11; Matthew 24:14; Acts 13: 47-49;
Romans 15:6-12

WHERE G-D'S W-RD WILL GO FORTH:
Proverbs 21:30; Micah 4:2; Luke 24:47


"BARUCH ATAH ADONAI ELOHEINU MELEKH HA-OLAM SHE-HECHIYANU V'KIMANU V'HIGI 'ANU LA-ZMAN HA-ZEH"

"BLESSED ART THOU, O L-RD, OUR G-D, KING OF THE UNIVERSE, WHO HAS KEPT US ALIVE AND
MAINTAINED US AND ENABLED US TO REACH THIS SEASON"


WHERE ISRAEL'S FEASTS ARE OBSERVED:
Ezekiel 36:38; Deuteronomy 16:16; Psalm 122:3-5; Luke 2:41; John 10:22-23; John 12:20; Acts 18:21

WHERE THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS OUTPOURED:
Luke 24:49; Acts 1:4; Acts 2:1-4

ZION OF G-D:
II Samuel 5:6-9; II Chronicles 11:5-7; Psalm 78:68; Psalm 87:1-7; Psalm 102:13-18; Psalm 128:5; Psalm 132:13-14; Isaiah 2:1-4;
Isaiah 14:22; Isaiah 51:11-12; Isaiah 55:11-12; Jeremiah 16:15; Jeremiah 31:6--9; Jeremiah 50:4-5


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#8
other one

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what is God's promise to Israel??? just what (in your own words) did he promise them?


Not sure if this is directed to me... But here it is again - God promised to Abraham a land, a great nation, a great name, and a blessing that would include all the families of the earth. (Gen. 12:1-3)

I'm not sure what the purpose of the question is? Possible to rephrase?


The promises to Abraham and to Israel when they received the Law and that Covenant, it pertains to this world and in the physical realm.......... not the kingdom of heaven. The second covenant opens the possibility of entering the Kingdom of Heaven and that's the huge difference.
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#9
GoldenEagle

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what is God's promise to Israel??? just what (in your own words) did he promise them?


Not sure if this is directed to me... But here it is again - God promised to Abraham a land, a great nation, a great name, and a blessing that would include all the families of the earth. (Gen. 12:1-3)

I'm not sure what the purpose of the question is? Possible to rephrase?


The promises to Abraham and to Israel when they received the Law and that Covenant, it pertains to this world and in the physical realm.......... not the kingdom of heaven. The second covenant opens the possibility of entering the Kingdom of Heaven and that's the huge difference.


I agree salvation is through the promise to Abraham. Israel is still God's chosen people though. ;)
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#10
GoldenEagle

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What is so beautiful and so humbling about God, is that HE is the one who acts on OUR behalf (I say our because we are believers but in this sense I mean Israel as well) for the sake of His own name. He does this because He is God and cannot lie and therefore we can depend on Him to do what He said He will do. I'm not mixing up the covenants... only stating that regardless of who God is addressing, HE, GOD, does not change

I realize I have not specifically answered your questions GE, but I am aware of them and will probably get into that a bit later on if this thread hopefully does not get torpedoed, hijacked or otherwise derailed by personal non-biblical pet beliefs

then again, I could just post what I believe to be true without heated arguments .


I agree in bold that God is the key player in history and God is consistent in that His promised do not change.
I think you’re pretty solid Bbilically sevenseas. ;) Thanks for not trying to torpedo, hijack, etc. the thread. ;) Not that I’ve not done this myself to others or my own OP threads. Lol. ;)

Opinions can be shared for clarification. But between what our opinions are and what God says in the Bible we must always side with the Bible no?

God bless you sister!
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#11
larryt

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B. Are Christians grafted into God’s promise to Israel?

4. Text Re – Christians are Grafted Into Israel: God promised to Abraham a land, a great nation, a great name, and a blessing that would include all the families of the earth. (Gen. 12:1-3)

<snip>

Thoughts? Do you agree or disagree?

Anything to add?

There are many that I think I could ask right now but not to confuse the issue let us try to keep a discussion on just one aspect at a time. If we can keep this a discussion between us I would prefer that as too many people all with their own ideas on what you might think is not productive. Personally I am not going to respond to others as my time is valuable and I would like to keep this as civil as possible.

What in your thinking are we grafted into? The Nation of Israel? Christ? What?

Also if you would point to a definition of replacement theology I would appreciate it as I do not agree with the definition I referred to on the other thread.
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#12
GoldenEagle

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There are many that I think I could ask right now but not to confuse the issue let us try to keep a discussion on just one aspect at a time. If we can keep this a discussion between us I would prefer that as too many people all with their own ideas on what you might think is not productive. Personally I am not going to respond to others as my time is valuable and I would like to keep this as civil as possible.

What in your thinking are we grafted into? The Nation of Israel? Christ? What?

Also if you would point to a definition of replacement theology I would appreciate it as I do not agree with the definition I referred to on the other thread.


If other people would like to comment Larry there is really no reason to stop them. This is a discussion thread open to anyone after all. But I see your point. There is no rule that states that one must reply to others comments. So… Here we go.

1. Let’s start at the beginning. How do we define a Covenant? What are the Covenants that God has established?

2. How do we define what is a promise? We know God fulfills but does God break His promises?

3. Replacement Theology: The concept that the Church (Body of Christ) has replaced Israel. There is a specific thread about this here where shiloh357 explains it a lot better I believe than I could: http://www.worthychr...ement-theology/
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#13
larryt

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There are many that I think I could ask right now but not to confuse the issue let us try to keep a discussion on just one aspect at a time. If we can keep this a discussion between us I would prefer that as too many people all with their own ideas on what you might think is not productive. Personally I am not going to respond to others as my time is valuable and I would like to keep this as civil as possible.

What in your thinking are we grafted into? The Nation of Israel? Christ? What?

Also if you would point to a definition of replacement theology I would appreciate it as I do not agree with the definition I referred to on the other thread.


If other people would like to comment Larry there is really no reason to stop them. This is a discussion thread open to anyone after all. But I see your point. There is no rule that states that one must reply to others comments. So… Here we go.

1. Let’s start at the beginning. How do we define a Covenant? What are the Covenants that God has established?

2. How do we define what is a promise? We know God fulfills but does God break His promises?

3. Replacement Theology: The concept that the Church (Body of Christ) has replaced Israel. There is a specific thread about this here where shiloh357 explains it a lot better I believe than I could: http://www.worthychr...ement-theology/

Hi GE,
I did ask a couple of questions. It appears to me that you are avoiding my questions. I need to know how you define things as it is you who has made some statements. How I define things is irrelevent to knowing your understanding. I cannot respond to your statement until I know what it is that you are trying to say. So if you would define what you mean by covenant and promise that would help as it is you who started this thread. and if you would answer my questions that would help me in my understanding of what it is you are trying to say. You opened it up by asking if there were any questions.

I have no problem with others responding but I am just not going to respond at least for the time being.
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#14
GoldenEagle

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If other people would like to comment Larry there is really no reason to stop them. This is a discussion thread open to anyone after all. But I see your point. There is no rule that states that one must reply to others comments. So… Here we go.

1. Let’s start at the beginning. How do we define a Covenant? What are the Covenants that God has established?

2. How do we define what is a promise? We know God fulfills but does God break His promises?

3. Replacement Theology: The concept that the Church (Body of Christ) has replaced Israel. There is a specific thread about this here where shiloh357 explains it a lot better I believe than I could: http://www.worthychr...ement-theology/

Hi GE,
I did ask a couple of questions. It appears to me that you are avoiding my questions. I need to know how you define things as it is you who has made some statements. How I define things is irrelevent to knowing your understanding. I cannot respond to your statement until I know what it is that you are trying to say. So if you would define what you mean by covenant and promise that would help as it is you who started this thread. and if you would answer my questions that would help me in my understanding of what it is you are trying to say. You opened it up by asking if there were any questions.

I have no problem with others responding but I am just not going to respond at least for the time being.


Yes I agree Larry you did ask a couple of questions. However, in order for us to understand each other we must first establish common definitions and common ground. For example we both believe that Christ is Messiah the perfect atoning sacrifice for the sin's of man? I assume you agree but let's just take it from that point of view first.

What in your thinking are we grafted into? The Nation of Israel? Christ? What?


I've given plenty of evidence in the first 3 posts of this thread what I believe. I'm not avoiding your questions as I intend on answering them. But in order to answer them I would like to establish what we agree upon first. I think if you would help me understand your perspective as to these two definitions we could have a very interesting, productive, and cordial discussion. Is that fair?

So... I ask again.

1. Let’s start at the beginning. How do we define a Covenant? What are the Covenants that God has established?

2. How do we define what is a promise? We know God fulfills but does God break His promises?

God bless,
GE
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#15
shiloh357

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B. Are Christians grafted into God’s promise to Israel?

4. Text Re – Christians are Grafted Into Israel: God promised to Abraham a land, a great nation, a great name, and a blessing that would include all the families of the earth. (Gen. 12:1-3)

<snip>

Thoughts? Do you agree or disagree?

Anything to add?

There are many that I think I could ask right now but not to confuse the issue let us try to keep a discussion on just one aspect at a time. If we can keep this a discussion between us I would prefer that as too many people all with their own ideas on what you might think is not productive. Personally I am not going to respond to others as my time is valuable and I would like to keep this as civil as possible.

What in your thinking are we grafted into? The Nation of Israel? Christ? What?


Paul uses the agricultural method of grafting to illustrate how Gentiles are included in the blessings God has promised to Israel. "Israel" for purposes of this illustration is the believing Jewish community (not the church). The believing Jewish remnant is the "Israel within Israel" that Paul discusses in Rom. 9 Paul also refers to this remnant as the "Israel of God" in Gal. 6:16.

The grafting process includes grafting the foreign branch into the root system of the host tree. As Paul says, "the root supports you; you do not support the root. But what is important is that this is spoken of in corporate not individual terms. Paul is not talking about individual believers being grafted in, but rather the believing Gentile community is grafted into the root in order to receive the blessings (nourishment) that comes from the same root that feeds the natural trunk and branches. Another important point about grafting is that the wild or foreign branch when grafted into the cultivated olive tree bears the fruit of the cultivated tree. It does not bear the same olives that it did when it was on the old tree.

The root system represent the Patriarchs. So Gentile believers are grafted into the root and as such are expected to bear the same fruit as the other branches on the tree.

Also if you would point to a definition of replacement theology I would appreciate it as I do not agree with the definition I referred to on the other thread.

larryt, Replacement theology is not arbitrarily defined. You don't get to pick how you want it defined. Replacement Theology is also known in theological circles as "supercessionism" and it has a definite definition. It is the theological principle espoused by some that the Church as a body of Jews and Gentiles has superceded or "replaced" biblical Israel as the people of God, hence the Jews are no longer God's chosen people. Therefore, the OT promises of blessing made to Israel are transferred to the "new" people of God, the church. Replacement Theology, therefore, recognizes NO prophetic significance for modern Israel.

Many who hold to this view are either preterists who believe that all biblical prophecy was fulfilled by AD 70 or they view the prophecies about God's blessing of Israel to refer to the church age. In any case, they both espouse Replacement Theology as I have defined it.

You don't get to choose what kind of definition should exist for Replacement Theology. You simply need to understand how it is defined and work from there.
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#16
GoldenEagle

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I think you have explained grafting and replacement theology quite well Shiloh. :thumbsup:
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#17
GoldenEagle

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Hi GE,
I did ask a couple of questions. It appears to me that you are avoiding my questions. I need to know how you define things as it is you who has made some statements...


PS - Techinically speaking I did ask first... As these two questions realate to the OP. ;) To understand the OP questions one must define both what is a promise and what Covenants are there still active today would you agree?

The two questions becomes: A. How do we know Israel is God’s chosen people? And B. Are Christians grafted into God’s promise to Israel?


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#18
Matthitjah

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Good thread on the Promise!

Something interesting is this;

"I will make you a Great Nation" is fulfilled in a threefold way;

Natural Posterity (Hebrew people)
Spriritual Posterity (Christ)
Physical Posterity amongst the Nations (Ishmael)

"I will Bless Thee" fulfilled in two ways;

Temporal
Spiritual

"Make thy Name Great" is self explanatory;

Abraham's name is a Universally recognized Name

"I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee" is self evident in the possessions and disperisons of the land.

"In thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed" is fulfilled in Christ;

Ga 3:16
Now to Abraham and his descendant were the promises made. He says not, And to descendants, as of many; but as of one, And to your descendant, who is Christ.
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#19
larryt

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B. Are Christians grafted into God’s promise to Israel?

4. Text Re – Christians are Grafted Into Israel: God promised to Abraham a land, a great nation, a great name, and a blessing that would include all the families of the earth. (Gen. 12:1-3)

<snip>

Thoughts? Do you agree or disagree?

Anything to add?

There are many that I think I could ask right now but not to confuse the issue let us try to keep a discussion on just one aspect at a time. If we can keep this a discussion between us I would prefer that as too many people all with their own ideas on what you might think is not productive. Personally I am not going to respond to others as my time is valuable and I would like to keep this as civil as possible.

What in your thinking are we grafted into? The Nation of Israel? Christ? What?


Paul uses the agricultural method of grafting to illustrate how Gentiles are included in the blessings God has promised to Israel. "Israel" for purposes of this illustration is the believing Jewish community (not the church). The believing Jewish remnant is the "Israel within Israel" that Paul discusses in Rom. 9 Paul also refers to this remnant as the "Israel of God" in Gal. 6:16.

The grafting process includes grafting the foreign branch into the root system of the host tree. As Paul says, "the root supports you; you do not support the root. But what is important is that this is spoken of in corporate not individual terms. Paul is not talking about individual believers being grafted in, but rather the believing Gentile community is grafted into the root in order to receive the blessings (nourishment) that comes from the same root that feeds the natural trunk and branches. Another important point about grafting is that the wild or foreign branch when grafted into the cultivated olive tree bears the fruit of the cultivated tree. It does not bear the same olives that it did when it was on the old tree.

The root system represent the Patriarchs. So Gentile believers are grafted into the root and as such are expected to bear the same fruit as the other branches on the tree.

Please clarify something. The believeing Jewish community is not part of the Church (not the church)? Are you making a separation between Jews & Gentiles? If so how do you come to conclusion that there is a difference between Jewish believers and non-Jewish believers?

I agree with the corporate grafting in as opposed to individual grafting in.

So how do you define the believing nation of Israel today?



Also if you would point to a definition of replacement theology I would appreciate it as I do not agree with the definition I referred to on the other thread.

larryt, Replacement theology is not arbitrarily defined. You don't get to pick how you want it defined. Replacement Theology is also known in theological circles as "supercessionism" and it has a definite definition. It is the theological principle espoused by some that the Church as a body of Jews and Gentiles has superceded or "replaced" biblical Israel as the people of God, hence the Jews are no longer God's chosen people. Therefore, the OT promises of blessing made to Israel are transferred to the "new" people of God, the church. Replacement Theology, therefore, recognizes NO prophetic significance for modern Israel.

Many who hold to this view are either preterists who believe that all biblical prophecy was fulfilled by AD 70 or they view the prophecies about God's blessing of Israel to refer to the church age. In any case, they both espouse Replacement Theology as I have defined it.

You don't get to choose what kind of definition should exist for Replacement Theology. You simply need to understand how it is defined and work from there.

I was stating that I did not agree with replacement theology as it was stated in the site I mentioned. If it was an accurate depiction of RT them I do not agree with their possition. RT is not upheld by scripture.

Jumping to a conclusion as to what I meant about RT is a very big problem on forums such as these. I was not looking to pick or choose. I was looking to establish a precedent. People in general want to generalize for their own peace of mind.(is that an oxymoron?)

Grace & Peace
LT
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#20
larryt

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  • Location:Edmonds, WA
  • Interests:Talking to others about the Lord Jesus Christ<br>Earnestly contending for the faith once delivered to the saints.


Hi GE,
I did ask a couple of questions. It appears to me that you are avoiding my questions. I need to know how you define things as it is you who has made some statements...


PS - Techinically speaking I did ask first... As these two questions realate to the OP. ;) To understand the OP questions one must define both what is a promise and what Covenants are there still active today would you agree?

The two questions becomes: A. How do we know Israel is God’s chosen people? And B. Are Christians grafted into God’s promise to Israel?

I fully believe the covenants and the promises are active today.

The 2 questions is another matter.

A. I do not know that all the people inhabiting the present nation known as Israel are God's chosen people. How and in what sense do you mean God's chosen? By Israel do you mean all the inhabitants, just the ofspring of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. or something else.

B. By Christians do you mean gentiles or all Christians, Jew and Gentile alike?

Grace & Peace
LT
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