Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

New City Jerusalem


79 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

Greetings,

When the New City Jerusalem comes down out of Space and lands over where Jerusalem is now, what do you think the inhabitants of the Earth will call this Massive City that comes out of Space and lands over Jerusalem? A UFO maybe?

^i^

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Greetings,

When the New City Jerusalem comes down out of Space and lands over where Jerusalem is now, what do you think the inhabitants of the Earth will call this Massive City that comes out of Space and lands over Jerusalem? A UFO maybe?

^i^

Care to quote the scripture for the above, and your thoughts behind it's intended meaning?

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Greetings,

When the New City Jerusalem comes down out of Space and lands over where Jerusalem is now, what do you think the inhabitants of the Earth will call this Massive City that comes out of Space and lands over Jerusalem? A UFO maybe?

^i^

lol

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. Revelation 21:3

UFO's? That's Tin Man Thinking

At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart. In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers. Jeremiah 3:17

And It Lands Where?

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. Revelation 21:1

Sorry Charley, This Earth This Wonderful Evil Wicked Old Earth

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:15-17

Be Gone

~

So If You Want To Book A Room

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. John 14:1-3

Bow To The KING Of The Hill, The Mighty KING Of Zion

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Greetings,

When the New City Jerusalem comes down out of Space and lands over where Jerusalem is now, what do you think the inhabitants of the Earth will call this Massive City that comes out of Space and lands over Jerusalem? A UFO maybe?

^i^

I think you need to understand that before New Jerusalem comes down, there will be a new heaven and a new earth. Who are these people you talk about?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Shalom, DiscipleDave777.

Greetings,

When the New City Jerusalem comes down out of Space and lands over where Jerusalem is now, what do you think the inhabitants of the Earth will call this Massive City that comes out of Space and lands over Jerusalem? A UFO maybe?

^i^

If it were to land on today's earth, sure, they would call it a UFO or an alien spacecraft, but as others have said, it will not land on today's earth but on the New Earth. Those inhabitants will be from varying countries, but this will be after the second resurrection - the resurrection of the unjust or the general resurrection, after the Great White Throne Judgment, after the Fire, and after the Re-Creation; those against the Messiah and His Kingdom will have been judged and sentenced. It is in the New Earth that "God wipes away all tears." All folks will welcome the arrival of Yerushalayim haChadashah.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Well, the New Jerusalem is not a small thing.... It appears by the description to be a cube or pyramid that has a 1,500 mile square base and is the same hight. So if it lands on the place of the old city of Jerusalem it will squish anything The size of it will cover Egypt, Sudan, the entire Saudi Arabian peninsula, Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Israel area.

I think the old earth and Jerusalem have passed away. And we have a new earth and this really huge city.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Yes, I believe the Scripture says we will have the millinium first, then the new Heavens and New Earth, and the Heaven will be joined with the New Earth and that is when New Jerusalem comes down from the sky, after 1,000 years. Does that sound right?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Shalom, other one.

Well, the New Jerusalem is not a small thing.... It appears by the description to be a cube or pyramid that has a 1,500 mile square base and is the same hight. So if it lands on the place of the old city of Jerusalem it will squish anything The size of it will cover Egypt, Sudan, the entire Saudi Arabian peninsula, Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Israel area.

I think the old earth and Jerusalem have passed away. And we have a new earth and this really huge city.

And, don't forget half of Turkey! (I think you should shift the landing zone north a little so that the center of the New Jerusalem would be at the coordinates for the Old Jerusalem, particularly the Old City.)

I've done the math, btw, and a cube won't do. If it has a simple shape at all, it would have to be the pyramid. At 1,500 miles across the middle of the city from the center gate on one side of the city to the center gate on the opposite side of the city, that would be 1,500 miles / 24,902 miles * 360 degrees = 21.685 degrees of the earth's circumference (assuming the New Earth will have similar dimensions to this present earth). That means comparing the center gate on one side of the city to the center gate on the opposite side of the city, the direction for "down" would be different by that 21.685 degrees! If it were a true cube, then the cube would not look like a cube at all from a position just outside one of those two gates! Both walls of the city would slant in by 21.685 / 2 = 10.8425 degrees from perpendicular! The walls of the "cube" would not be plumb! The pyramid idea works better. You still have the walls slanting in by that 10.8425 degrees, but a pyramid with an isosceles triangle in its cross sectional view (although the base of the triangle would be curved to the surface of the earth). This would produce a pinnacle angle of 50.78 degrees and an ascent angle of 64.61 - 10.8425 = 53.77 degrees. Because of how the pinnacle would diminish into the distance (it's 1,738.7 miles away from that center gate), this pyramid would APPEAR to have dimensions of an equilateral triangle (with curving sloped sides), and yet from a distance one could tell that it DOES have an isosceles shape to the triangle such that it's curved base is equal to it's height.

Just some food for thought

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Greetings,

When the New City Jerusalem comes down out of Space and lands over where Jerusalem is now, what do you think the inhabitants of the Earth will call this Massive City that comes out of Space and lands over Jerusalem? A UFO maybe?

^i^

Care to quote the scripture for the above, and your thoughts behind it's intended meaning?

Rev21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

That is the Verse that teaches the New City Jerusalem will come down out of Heaven, the other part of what i said is a question concerning this event.

^i^

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Greetings,

When the New City Jerusalem comes down out of Space and lands over where Jerusalem is now, what do you think the inhabitants of the Earth will call this Massive City that comes out of Space and lands over Jerusalem? A UFO maybe?

^i^

I think you need to understand that before New Jerusalem comes down, there will be a new heaven and a new earth. Who are these people you talk about?

The New Heaven and the New Earth will be created in 7 years, for the inhabatants of the Earth this is called the Tribulation Period. In the middle of Tribulation period roughly 3 1/2 years Christ will return to gather His Church to live with Him in the New City Jerusalem that comes down out of Heaven with Him. At this time many will come against the New City to destroy it, all who go against the New City will be killed. Anyone who will not accept His Rule will fight against Him, they will attach the New City Jerusalem, all who come against it will die horribly, eyes melting in their heads, and blood up to the horses bridle. The Saints will safely be inside with Jesus in the New City, the place that Jesus went to prepare for us as a bride. The last part of the 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation Period is to destroy the wicked off the Earth, this is done by the pouring of the vials upon the Earth. It is the Tribulation Period that creates the New Heaven and the New Earth.

^i^

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Greetings,

When the New City Jerusalem comes down out of Space and lands over where Jerusalem is now, what do you think the inhabitants of the Earth will call this Massive City that comes out of Space and lands over Jerusalem? A UFO maybe?

^i^

Care to quote the scripture for the above, and your thoughts behind it's intended meaning?

Rev21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

That is the Verse that teaches the New City Jerusalem will come down out of Heaven, the other part of what i said is a question concerning this event.

^i^

There will be no people there when it arrives, for those who have survived with already be in the New Jerusalem. Everyone else would of been judged at the Great White Throne Judgment or at the Bema seat of Christ. The life we now know will never exist after the 1000 year reign of Christ as the old heaven and earth fled away and a new heaven and earth replaced the old.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Greetings,

When the New City Jerusalem comes down out of Space and lands over where Jerusalem is now, what do you think the inhabitants of the Earth will call this Massive City that comes out of Space and lands over Jerusalem? A UFO maybe?

^i^

I think you need to understand that before New Jerusalem comes down, there will be a new heaven and a new earth. Who are these people you talk about?

The New Heaven and the New Earth will be created in 7 years, for the inhabatants of the Earth this is called the Tribulation Period. In the middle of Tribulation period roughly 3 1/2 years Christ will return to gather His Church to live with Him in the New City Jerusalem that comes down out of Heaven with Him. At this time many will come against the New City to destroy it, all who go against the New City will be killed. Anyone who will not accept His Rule will fight against Him, they will attach the New City Jerusalem, all who come against it will die horribly, eyes melting in their heads, and blood up to the horses bridle. The Saints will safely be inside with Jesus in the New City, the place that Jesus went to prepare for us as a bride. The last part of the 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation Period is to destroy the wicked off the Earth, this is done by the pouring of the vials upon the Earth. It is the Tribulation Period that creates the New Heaven and the New Earth.

^i^

This is false teaching. I challenge you to provide scriptural proof of your teachings. God, who created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them in six days, does not need 7 years to create a New Jerusalem. Neither does scripture tells us that when Christ returns for His thousand year reign that he will bring with Him the New Jerusalem.

Here is what scripture says:

Revelation 20:11 - 22:5

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.

Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. And he who talked with me had a gold reed to measure the city, its gates, and its wall. The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal. Then he measured its wall: one hundred and forty-four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel. The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass. The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.

But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it. Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it. But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Everyone else would of been judged at the Great White Throne Judgment or at the Bema seat of Christ.

What evidence is there to suggest that these are two separate things?

Gary

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Greetings,

When the New City Jerusalem comes down out of Space and lands over where Jerusalem is now, what do you think the inhabitants of the Earth will call this Massive City that comes out of Space and lands over Jerusalem? A UFO maybe?

^i^

I think you need to understand that before New Jerusalem comes down, there will be a new heaven and a new earth. Who are these people you talk about?

The New Heaven and the New Earth will be created in 7 years, for the inhabatants of the Earth this is called the Tribulation Period. In the middle of Tribulation period roughly 3 1/2 years Christ will return to gather His Church to live with Him in the New City Jerusalem that comes down out of Heaven with Him. At this time many will come against the New City to destroy it, all who go against the New City will be killed. Anyone who will not accept His Rule will fight against Him, they will attach the New City Jerusalem, all who come against it will die horribly, eyes melting in their heads, and blood up to the horses bridle. The Saints will safely be inside with Jesus in the New City, the place that Jesus went to prepare for us as a bride. The last part of the 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation Period is to destroy the wicked off the Earth, this is done by the pouring of the vials upon the Earth. It is the Tribulation Period that creates the New Heaven and the New Earth.

^i^

I'm sorry, but you are not getting this teaching from the Bible. The wicked born during the Millennium to those that survive the Tribulation Period, (who, during that time, will be giving Christ lip-service worship), will join with Satan after he is released from the bottomless pit, and will attack the old city of Jerusalem. God will immediately destroy them. It is after that event when God will create the new heavens and earth, with the new city of Jerusalem.

The lesson? Even with Jesus on earth in bodily form, one cannot change their sinful nature. It's not the environment, it's the human heart.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

If the earth is destroyed, what happens to the people living on it?

Where does a new earth come from? Or it is more like a "remodeled" version of the present earth?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The NEW JERUSALEM is the redeemed. The cube like description given in Scripture isn't literal, but rather a concept of perfection. Perfect in height, width and length. The New Earth will have no sea. Anything outside of the New Jerusalem is the Lake of Fire, just as Ge-enna was outside of the literal city.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

If the earth is destroyed, what happens to the people living on it?

Where does a new earth come from? Or it is more like a "remodeled" version of the present earth?

They are either a part of the New Jerusalem or in the Lake of Fire. And renewed is more correct than remodeled. The old earth will be burned away and all of its works as well, and the unsaved inhabitants will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

If the earth is destroyed, what happens to the people living on it?

Where does a new earth come from? Or it is more like a "remodeled" version of the present earth?

They are either a part of the New Jerusalem or in the Lake of Fire. And renewed is more correct than remodeled. The old earth will be burned away and all of its works as well, and the unsaved inhabitants will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2 Peter 3:10

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

Jesus spoke in parables, hyperbole, figurative language. He used simile's and hardly ever spoke in straightforward language. When the Disciples asked Him why - what did He say? Likewise a lot of OT prophesy was also concealed in figurative language. The bottom line is that Jesus does not want part of his audience to understand the Message. And they didn't - for example: the religious leaders of His day didn't have a clue about Him being the Messiah dispite the fact that the OT is loaded with types and shadows of Jesus. The Disciples also before Pentecost 30AD thought in a very soulish way (literal.) They did not understand a lot of what He was doing and saying. However after Pentecost this seems to have changed. Jesus always spoke directly to the spirit of the individual – after all he said his words were spirit and truth.

It was a scribe or copiest who wrote the first three verses of Revelation and he stated that John had "SIGNIFIED" the book - in other words it was put into symbolic or Apocalyptic language. So we can't take the book as literal. God in the OT writes much of Prophesy in this coded language meant for the remnant of Israel (His true followers) and not the proud and haughty. Here is the pattern that I find in scripture. God inserts outrageous comments into the text to show his remnant that he is not speaking literally. When Jesus was using an idiom to describe His second coming he states that the stars will fall from heaven. This is a technical impossibility - so from that we understand that He is using an idiom and it is not literal. Zechariah said that “all nations would come against Israel" – not possible inhistory or in our future so it is not a literal war that he is talking about. He further states that Egypt will have no rain – it doesn't rain in Egypt as it is totally watered by the Nile. And there are many more.

So when this city comes down out of heaven, which is 1,500 mils cubed - then you know that this is symbolic and not literal. Where did the governments of the world come from? Up from the earth and sea – the government of God came down from heaven. This city is cubed – just like the Holy of Holies, the Temple building, and the Temple and Temple Mount of Herod was. This is symbolic of the government and residence of God – the New Covenant people who are the stones that construct this temple. There is no way that a 1,500 mile cubed city will alight on Jerusalem in the future.

Edited by Sonseeahray
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Jesus spoke in parables, hyperbole, figurative language. He used simile's and hardly ever spoke in straightforward language. When the Disciples asked Him why - what did He say? Likewise a lot of OT prophesy was also concealed in figurative language. The bottom line is that Jesus does not want part of his audience to understand the Message. And they didn't - for example: the religious leaders of His day didn't have a clue about Him being the Messiah dispite the fact that the OT is loaded with types and shadows of Jesus. The Disciples also before Pentecost 30AD thought in a very soulish way (literal.) They did not understand a lot of what He was doing and saying. However after Pentecost this seems to have changed. Jesus always spoke directly to the spirit of the individual – after all he said his words were spirit and truth.

It was a scribe or copiest who wrote the first three verses of Revelation and he stated that John had "SIGNIFIED" the book - in other words it was put into symbolic or Apocalyptic language. So we can't take the book as literal. God in the OT writes much of Prophesy in this coded language meant for the remnant of Israel (His true followers) and not the proud and haughty. Here is the pattern that I find in scripture. God inserts outrageous comments into the text to show his remnant that he is not speaking literally. When Jesus was using an idiom to describe His second coming he states that the stars will fall from heaven. This is a technical impossibility - so from that we understand that He is using an idiom and it is not literal. Zechariah said that “all nations would come against Israel" – not possible inhistory or in our future so it is not a literal war that he is talking about. He further states that Egypt will have no rain – it doesn't rain in Egypt as it is totally watered by the Nile. And there are many more.

So when this city comes down out of heaven, which is 1,500 mils cubed - then you know that this is symbolic and not literal. Where did the governments of the world come from? Up from the earth and sea – the government of God came down from heaven. This city is cubed – just like the Holy of Holies, the Temple building, and the Temple and Temple Mount of Herod was. This is symbolic of the government and residence of God – the New Covenant people who are the stones that construct this temple. There is no way that a 1,500 mile cubed city will alight on Jerusalem in the future.

Why is it impossible for all the nations of the world to turn against Israel? Why is it impossible for God to actually recreate the heavens and earth that would house a 1500 cubic city? Seems to me that since you don't understand that He can and will, you just suggest it is symbolic.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Shalom, Bold Believer.

The NEW JERUSALEM is the redeemed. The cube like description given in Scripture isn't literal, but rather a concept of perfection. Perfect in height, width and length. The New Earth will have no sea. Anything outside of the New Jerusalem is the Lake of Fire, just as Ge-enna was outside of the literal city.

No, that's NOT right! The New Jerusalem, Yerushalayim haChadashah in Hebrew, will be a huge, literal city that descends to the New Earth AFTER the Fire's renovation of the earth. It's not "cube-like"; it will most likely be pyramidal because of its size! Everything outside of the New Jerusalem, God's HOUSE, will be the beautiful New Earth, God's BACKYARD! Just because Yochanan noted that there was "no more sea" does not mean that there will be no more WATER! To the contrary, he may have simply been talking about the Mediterranean Sea that was separating him from his loved ones in Yeshua` who were on the mainland of Asia Minor, today known as Turkey. Indeed, if the New Jerusalem is centered upon the coordinates for the Old City, its weight will raise the surrounding land, creating new hills and mountains and drive the Mediterranean Sea back to the Atlantic! Furthermore, the Water of Life will flow out of the twelve gateways of the city, which will then always stand open as the twelve gates are permanently rolled away from their entrances. There WILL be water on the New Earth! Furthermore, the New Jerusalem will dwarf any mountain on the face of the earth, new or old!

With a city that is 1,500 miles by 1,500 miles sitting on a square surface; that is, it covers a square footprint - it "LIETH FOURSQUARE" - we're talking about a structure that has a 6,000-mile perimeter! Having only twelve gates, that means that the distance between gates from center of gate to center of gate will be 500 MILES, even around a corner! We are also told that this city will be aligned with north for the city has four sides, each one related to one of the four compass directions. (This confirms that the city will land, btw.) We are also told that there will be three gates on each side. This uses the model of the city described by Yechezk'el (Ezekiel) that Yeshua` will build during the Millennium found in Ezekiel 48:30-35:

Ezekiel 48:30-35

30 And these are the goings out of the city on the north side, four thousand and five hundred measures.

31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.

32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.

33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.

34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.

35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there. (Hebrew: YHWH shaamah).

KJV

Revelation 21:10-16

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven (Greek: ouranos = the "sky") from God,

11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.

16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs (Greek: stadioi = Latin: stadia; 1 stadios = 1 stadium = 660 feet). The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

KJV

12,000 stadioi x (660 feet / 1 stadios) x (1 mile / 5,280 feet) = 1,500 miles.

Thus, I believe that the New Jerusalem will have a similar construction. From the northwest corner going eastward, one will have 250 miles and then the gate of Re`uven. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Y'hudah. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Leviy, and then 250 more miles to the northeast corner. Going south from the northeast corner, one will have another 250 miles and then the gate of Yosef. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Bin-Yamiyn. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Dan, and then 250 miles to the southeast corner. From the southeast corner going westward, one will have 250 miles and then the gate of Shim`own. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Yissachar. After another 500 miles from there, will be the third gate of Z'vulun, and then 250 more miles will lead one to the southwest corner. Going north from that corner 250 miles one will come to the gate of Gad. After another 500 miles from that gate, there will be the middle gate of Asher. After another 500 miles northward, one will come to the gate of Naftaliy, and 250 miles more, one will come to where the journey began at the northwest corner of the city!

Furthermore, this city is said to be 1,500 miles HIGH! Since Mount Everest is only 5.5 miles high, we're talking about a city that is 272.7 times higher than the highest peak on the present earth! First, I believe that the New Earth will be a renovation of the present earth, much as the present earth was a renovation of the antediluvian earth, the earth before the Flood of Noah's time. As such, the dimensions will not change significantly. So, I believe that the New Earth will have about a 24,902-mile circumference as the present earth does.

This means that 1,500 miles will cover 1,500 miles / 24,902 miles x 360 degrees = 21.685 degrees of the earth's circumference! That means several things: First, that the direction for "down" on one side of the city will be 21.685 degrees different than the direction for "down" on the opposite side of the city! (This is why a cube won't work. It will either not be truly cubical or it won't look cubical.) Second, that means that the direction for "down" in the center of the city will be 21.685 / 2 = 10.8425 degrees different than "down" at the center of any of the four sides of the city. Third, that means that some of the gates won't even be in the same time zone as other gates! (Each time zone is roughly 15 degrees.) Fourth, consider this: since we are talking about the curvature of the earth as the earth "falls away" from the plain assumed as "level" at the center of the city, it will be even MORE pronounced at the corners of the city! Thus, a much greater number of degrees separates the center to a corner and from corner to opposite corner!

Finally, we are talking about a four-sided pyramid (I believe) that is 1,500 miles high at the pinnacle Take a nail and a globe and use the mileage scale on the globe to determine how long 1,500 miles would be. (My globe uses 660 miles = 1 inch; therefore, my nail needs to be at least 1,500 miles x (1 inch / 660 miles) = 2 3/11 inches long.) Center the nail at Jerusalem with that height to the head, attempting to keep it perpendicular to the earth's surface at that point and then tilt the globe around from various points of view to see when you lose being able to see the top of the nail. This is the distance in that direction that you could still see the pinnacle of the city from the surface of the earth! I can still see it from portions of Morocco, and eastern China, east and west, and from north and south, from Norway to Zimbabwe! ALL OF THIS TERRITORY can directly see the pinnacle of the city! Even beyond that, the light of the city will still be visible! If Yeshua`s light will "outshine the sun," even WITH a sun, the Sun of Righteousness will drive out the night from that side of the earth! That's why I SO enjoy this verse:

Isaiah 24:23

23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

KJV

Even though we are told that "the city will have no need for the sun or the moon," we are NOT told that there will be no more sun or moon, nor are we told that the rest of the earth won't have need for the sun or the moon. This verse uses personification, but if we take away the personification, it tells us that the moon shall be mixed up (in its phases) and the sun shall be outdone for brightness! How neat is it going to be to see TWO phases on the moon at once, based on its position relative to the sun and relative to the New Jerusalem?!

Don't be so quick to give up on the literal point of view!

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Shalom, Bold Believer.

The NEW JERUSALEM is the redeemed. The cube like description given in Scripture isn't literal, but rather a concept of perfection. Perfect in height, width and length. The New Earth will have no sea. Anything outside of the New Jerusalem is the Lake of Fire, just as Ge-enna was outside of the literal city.

No, that's NOT right! The New Jerusalem, Yerushalayim haChadashah in Hebrew, will be a huge, literal city that descends to the New Earth AFTER the Fire's renovation of the earth. It's not "cube-like"; it will most likely be pyramidal because of its size! Everything outside of the New Jerusalem, God's HOUSE, will be the beautiful New Earth, God's BACKYARD! Just because Yochanan noted that there was "no more sea" does not mean that there will be no more WATER! To the contrary, he may have simply been talking about the Mediterranean Sea that was separating him from his loved ones in Yeshua` who were on the mainland of Asia Minor, today known as Turkey. Indeed, if the New Jerusalem is centered upon the coordinates for the Old City, its weight will raise the surrounding land, creating new hills and mountains and drive the Mediterranean Sea back to the Atlantic! Furthermore, the Water of Life will flow out of the twelve gateways of the city, which will then always stand open as the twelve gates are permanently rolled away from their entrances. There WILL be water on the New Earth! Furthermore, the New Jerusalem will dwarf any mountain on the face of the earth, new or old!

With a city that is 1,500 miles by 1,500 miles sitting on a square surface; that is, it covers a square footprint - it "LIETH FOURSQUARE" - we're talking about a structure that has a 6,000-mile perimeter! Having only twelve gates, that means that the distance between gates from center of gate to center of gate will be 500 MILES, even around a corner! We are also told that this city will be aligned with north for the city has four sides, each one related to one of the four compass directions. (This confirms that the city will land, btw.) We are also told that there will be three gates on each side. This uses the model of the city described by Yechezk'el (Ezekiel) that Yeshua` will build during the Millennium found in Ezekiel 48:30-35:

Ezekiel 48:30-35

30 And these are the goings out of the city on the north side, four thousand and five hundred measures.

31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.

32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.

33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.

34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.

35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there. (Hebrew: YHWH shaamah).

KJV

Revelation 21:10-16

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven (Greek: ouranos = the "sky") from God,

11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.

16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs (Greek: stadioi = Latin: stadia; 1 stadios = 1 stadium = 660 feet). The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

KJV

12,000 stadioi x (660 feet / 1 stadios) x (1 mile / 5,280 feet) = 1,500 miles.

Thus, I believe that the New Jerusalem will have a similar construction. From the northwest corner going eastward, one will have 250 miles and then the gate of Re`uven. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Y'hudah. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Leviy, and then 250 more miles to the northeast corner. Going south from the northeast corner, one will have another 250 miles and then the gate of Yosef. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Bin-Yamiyn. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Dan, and then 250 miles to the southeast corner. From the southeast corner going westward, one will have 250 miles and then the gate of Shim`own. There will be another 500 miles and then the gate of Yissachar. After another 500 miles from there, will be the third gate of Z'vulun, and then 250 more miles will lead one to the southwest corner. Going north from that corner 250 miles one will come to the gate of Gad. After another 500 miles from that gate, there will be the middle gate of Asher. After another 500 miles northward, one will come to the gate of Naftaliy, and 250 miles more, one will come to where the journey began at the northwest corner of the city!

Furthermore, this city is said to be 1,500 miles HIGH! Since Mount Everest is only 5.5 miles high, we're talking about a city that is 272.7 times higher than the highest peak on the present earth! First, I believe that the New Earth will be a renovation of the present earth, much as the present earth was a renovation of the antediluvian earth, the earth before the Flood of Noah's time. As such, the dimensions will not change significantly. So, I believe that the New Earth will have about a 24,902-mile circumference as the present earth does.

This means that 1,500 miles will cover 1,500 miles / 24,902 miles x 360 degrees = 21.685 degrees of the earth's circumference! That means several things: First, that the direction for "down" on one side of the city will be 21.685 degrees different than the direction for "down" on the opposite side of the city! (This is why a cube won't work. It will either not be truly cubical or it won't look cubical.) Second, that means that the direction for "down" in the center of the city will be 21.685 / 2 = 10.8425 degrees different than "down" at the center of any of the four sides of the city. Third, that means that some of the gates won't even be in the same time zone as other gates! (Each time zone is roughly 15 degrees.) Fourth, consider this: since we are talking about the curvature of the earth as the earth "falls away" from the plain assumed as "level" at the center of the city, it will be even MORE pronounced at the corners of the city! Thus, a much greater number of degrees separates the center to a corner and from corner to opposite corner!

Finally, we are talking about a four-sided pyramid (I believe) that is 1,500 miles high at the pinnacle Take a nail and a globe and use the mileage scale on the globe to determine how long 1,500 miles would be. (My globe uses 660 miles = 1 inch; therefore, my nail needs to be at least 1,500 miles x (1 inch / 660 miles) = 2 3/11 inches long.) Center the nail at Jerusalem with that height to the head, attempting to keep it perpendicular to the earth's surface at that point and then tilt the globe around from various points of view to see when you lose being able to see the top of the nail. This is the distance in that direction that you could still see the pinnacle of the city from the surface of the earth! I can still see it from portions of Morocco, and eastern China, east and west, and from north and south, from Norway to Zimbabwe! ALL OF THIS TERRITORY can directly see the pinnacle of the city! Even beyond that, the light of the city will still be visible! If Yeshua`s light will "outshine the sun," even WITH a sun, the Sun of Righteousness will drive out the night from that side of the earth! That's why I SO enjoy this verse:

Isaiah 24:23

23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

KJV

Even though we are told that "the city will have no need for the sun or the moon," we are NOT told that there will be no more sun or moon, nor are we told that the rest of the earth won't have need for the sun or the moon. This verse uses personification, but if we take away the personification, it tells us that the moon shall be mixed up (in its phases) and the sun shall be outdone for brightness! How neat is it going to be to see TWO phases on the moon at once, based on its position relative to the sun and relative to the New Jerusalem?!

Don't be so quick to give up on the literal point of view!

In all of what you write, the most interesting thing is that the city spans EVERY KNOWN PEOPLE GROUP, light skinned Norwegian/Scandinavians, dark skinned Africans, brown skinned Middle Easterners and Indians, red skinned Native Americans and yellow skinned Asians, when you draw out the geometric figure. God's CHURCH is composed of every people group. Hebrews 12:22 tells us that we've come to the heavenly Jerusalem. I still don't follow the pyramid analogy, since Yochannan describes it as a cube, but he's not describing a literal city. It's real, composed of real people, and when it comes down, it will occupy space on the New Earth, but I still believe the cube of equal measurements refers to the perfection of those just men made perfect.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Shalom, Bold Believer.

...

In all of what you write, the most interesting thing is that the city spans EVERY KNOWN PEOPLE GROUP, light skinned Norwegian/Scandinavians, dark skinned Africans, brown skinned Middle Easterners and Indians, red skinned Native Americans and yellow skinned Asians, when you draw out the geometric figure. God's CHURCH is composed of every people group. Hebrews 12:22 tells us that we've come to the heavenly Jerusalem. I still don't follow the pyramid analogy, since Yochannan describes it as a cube, but he's not describing a literal city. It's real, composed of real people, and when it comes down, it will occupy space on the New Earth, but I still believe the cube of equal measurements refers to the perfection of those just men made perfect.

LOL! Out of all that I wrote, THAT'S what you came away with?! Yochanan did NOT "describe it as a cube!" He merely said that it "LIETH FOURSQUARE," meaning that it has four square (right) angles and covers a square footprint, and that its length and width and height are all the same length, 12,000 furlongs or 1,500 miles. That's IT! He NEVER said it was a cube! That's only what some people ASSUME because they don't understand the "lieth foursquare" part! And, don't just assume the same thing because of some fictional, made-up allegorical interpretation you prefer to the literal interpretation of chapters 21 and 22! Stop being so superficially superstitious to call it a "spiritual" interpretation and use the UNRELATED PHRASE, "perfection of those just men made perfect!" GET YOUR FEET BACK ON THE GROUND!

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I have always wondered how the length, breadth and heigth can be equal that the top of a pyramid?

Revelation 21:16

The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Jesus spoke in parables, hyperbole, figurative language. He used simile's and hardly ever spoke in straightforward language. When the Disciples asked Him why - what did He say? Likewise a lot of OT prophesy was also concealed in figurative language. The bottom line is that Jesus does not want part of his audience to understand the Message. And they didn't - for example: the religious leaders of His day didn't have a clue about Him being the Messiah despite the fact that the OT is loaded with types and shadows of Jesus. The Disciples also before Pentecost 30AD thought in a very soulish way (literal.) They did not understand a lot of what He was doing and saying. However after Pentecost this seems to have changed. Jesus always spoke directly to the spirit of the individual – after all he said his words were spirit and truth.

It was a scribe or copiest who wrote the first three verses of Revelation and he stated that John had "SIGNIFIED" the book - in other words it was put into symbolic or Apocalyptic language. So we can't take the book as literal. God in the OT writes much of Prophesy in this coded language meant for the remnant of Israel (His true followers) and not the proud and haughty. Here is the pattern that I find in scripture. God inserts outrageous comments into the text to show his remnant that he is not speaking literally. When Jesus was using an idiom to describe His second coming he states that the stars will fall from heaven. This is a technical impossibility - so from that we understand that He is using an idiom and it is not literal. Zechariah said that “all nations would come against Israel" – not possible in history or in our future so it is not a literal war that he is talking about. He further states that Egypt will have no rain – it doesn't rain in Egypt as it is totally watered by the Nile. And there are many more.

So when this city comes down out of heaven, which is 1,500 mils cubed - then you know that this is symbolic and not literal. Where did the governments of the world come from? Up from the earth and sea – the government of God came down from heaven. This city is cubed – just like the Holy of Holies, the Temple building, and the Temple and Temple Mount of Herod was. This is symbolic of the government and residence of God – the New Covenant people who are the stones that construct this temple. There is no way that a 1,500 mile cubed city will alight on Jerusalem in the future.

Why is it impossible for all the nations of the world to turn against Israel? Why is it impossible for God to actually recreate the heavens and earth that would house a 1500 cubic city? Seems to me that since you don't understand that He can and will, you just suggest it is symbolic.

Oh

Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. Daniel 7:23

No!

The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. Zechariah 12:1-3

Teeny Tiny Minds

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:8-9

With Teeny Tiny Gods

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John. Revelation 1:1

Make Teeny Tiny Futures

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Revelation 20:7-11

Out Of Teeny Tiny Symbols

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. Revelation 21:1-5

~

Get Jesus

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And Know The Power Of God

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 22:3-5

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0