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Why Are Republicans Waging War on Food Stamps Now?


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#101
shiloh357

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It does in fact stimulate the economy, but food stamps isn't some kind of genie that will singlehandedly save the economy.


No, It does not stimulate the economy by any stretch of the imagination. If it did, then why doesn't EVERYONE get on food stamps??? If it stimulates the economy, the president should send $1,000 in food stamps to every American in order to stimulate the economy. The fact is that we are seeing record numbers of people on food stamps and we are seeing no direct or indirect benefit to the economy as a result. We have 47 million people on food stamps. That's like 15% of our population and there is absolutely NO economic stimulus occurring. No jobs are being created and unemployment is the same. Stimulating the economy isn't just about spending. it is about how you get the money to spend in the first place.


America's GDP is $15.09 Trillion or so, food stamps is $80 Billion or so. Assuming that every dollar in that budget goes towards purchasing food and there is no waste whatsoever, that's makes about a half a percent difference in GDP. A good economy grow more than that per quarter. Considering that it helps 47 Million people, $80 Billion dollars goes a long way for feeding people.

But that doesn't stimulate the economy and you can throw around numbers all you want. The bottom line is that for Billion being spent on food stamps, we are not better off for it. In fact, the number of food stamp recipients is growing. That is not a good sign at all. The difference here is that you can't get away with your liberal numbers games any longer. We can see the results. We now have four years of failed liberal policies. We have four years of record unemployment. We have four years of record numbers of people on gov't assistance. Reality shows us that leftists are completely wrong.

Because Food Stamps (and Unemployment benefits) are spent immediately by people with virtually no money, that provides much greater economic stimulus than tax cuts, or giving tax breaks for equipment purchases by businesses, for example.


If that were true, the numbers on the ground would reflect such a claim. The problem is that the numbers don't reflect any kind of stimulus at all, In fact, things are getting worse, not better. Tax cuts, reductions in regulations, and other such measures that create an environment for businesses to grow, thrive and allow businesses to start more new business, increate far more revenue in the long haul because it puts more people back to work. More people working means more people paying taxes and less people living off of other's taxes. It means that business owners have to pay more taxes. When you create an environment that promotes job growth, you create more tax renvenue because the tax base is larger. A larger tax bases creates more revenue meaning that there is no need to raise taxes on anyone. The tax burdern is borne by more people thus creating more revenue than having a more narrow tax base that you end up having to tax to death.

The problem with liberals, though, is that after they raise the reveneu, then what??? Liberals don't want more revenue so that we can pay down our debt. Liberals want more money so they can spend it. "Tax and spend," is the liberal mantra and it is why liberals are bad for the economy and bad for America.

Third, your 50% waste figure is completely made up.
http://usgovinfo.abo...oodstampgao.htm

According to this report, food stamp waste is at it's lowest in years, at about 3.5%, or $770 Million.


Except that he didn't say anything about 50% waste.

The point is that food stamp revenue comes from money that has already been earned by someone else. It is tax money that someone earned and then paid to the government. So it is money that was already there and now is being spent by someone else. That is not economic stimulus. Economic stimulus occurs when NEW money is injected into the economy. When the government simply takes money that is already in the econonomy and essentially recycles it, that is not going to produce economic growth. When people get new jobs that pay more and they are able to earn and spend more, THAT is new money that is being injected into the economy and that produced job growth and consumer confidence. Sorry but you liberals are a backwards bunch.

#102
Burning_Ember

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It does in fact stimulate the economy, but food stamps isn't some kind of genie that will singlehandedly save the economy.


No, It does not stimulate the economy by any stretch of the imagination. If it did, then why doesn't EVERYONE get on food stamps??? If it stimulates the economy, the president should send $1,000 in food stamps to every American in order to stimulate the economy. The fact is that we are seeing record numbers of people on food stamps and we are seeing no direct or indirect benefit to the economy as a result. We have 47 million people on food stamps. That's like 15% of our population and there is absolutely NO economic stimulus occurring. No jobs are being created and unemployment is the same. Stimulating the economy isn't just about spending. it is about how you get the money to spend in the first place.


America's GDP is $15.09 Trillion or so, food stamps is $80 Billion or so. Assuming that every dollar in that budget goes towards purchasing food and there is no waste whatsoever, that's makes about a half a percent difference in GDP. A good economy grow more than that per quarter. Considering that it helps 47 Million people, $80 Billion dollars goes a long way for feeding people.

But that doesn't stimulate the economy and you can throw around numbers all you want. The bottom line is that for Billion being spent on food stamps, we are not better off for it. In fact, the number of food stamp recipients is growing. That is not a good sign at all. The difference here is that you can't get away with your liberal numbers games any longer. We can see the results. We now have four years of failed liberal policies. We have four years of record unemployment. We have four years of record numbers of people on gov't assistance. Reality shows us that leftists are completely wrong.

Because Food Stamps (and Unemployment benefits) are spent immediately by people with virtually no money, that provides much greater economic stimulus than tax cuts, or giving tax breaks for equipment purchases by businesses, for example.


If that were true, the numbers on the ground would reflect such a claim. The problem is that the numbers don't reflect any kind of stimulus at all, In fact, things are getting worse, not better. Tax cuts, reductions in regulations, and other such measures that create an environment for businesses to grow, thrive and allow businesses to start more new business, increate far more revenue in the long haul because it puts more people back to work. More people working means more people paying taxes and less people living off of other's taxes. It means that business owners have to pay more taxes. When you create an environment that promotes job growth, you create more tax renvenue because the tax base is larger. A larger tax bases creates more revenue meaning that there is no need to raise taxes on anyone. The tax burdern is borne by more people thus creating more revenue than having a more narrow tax base that you end up having to tax to death.

The problem with liberals, though, is that after they raise the reveneu, then what??? Liberals don't want more revenue so that we can pay down our debt. Liberals want more money so they can spend it. "Tax and spend," is the liberal mantra and it is why liberals are bad for the economy and bad for America.

Third, your 50% waste figure is completely made up.
http://usgovinfo.abo...oodstampgao.htm

According to this report, food stamp waste is at it's lowest in years, at about 3.5%, or $770 Million.


Except that he didn't say anything about 50% waste.

The point is that food stamp revenue comes from money that has already been earned by someone else. It is tax money that someone earned and then paid to the government. So it is money that was already there and now is being spent by someone else. That is not economic stimulus. Economic stimulus occurs when NEW money is injected into the economy. When the government simply takes money that is already in the econonomy and essentially recycles it, that is not going to produce economic growth. When people get new jobs that pay more and they are able to earn and spend more, THAT is new money that is being injected into the economy and that produced job growth and consumer confidence. Sorry but you liberals are a backwards bunch.

According to Moody's Industry research firm, Food stamps offer the best economic stimulus as far as how fast money gets infused into the economy.

I sure can throw around all all the numbers I want around, so long as I'm using facts based on the reality of the situation... Because that is what matters.

http://money.cnn.com...lysis/index.htm

I'd also like to ask you from refraining from personal attacks, as calling liberals a backwards bunch isn't productive for discussion. :)

#103
shiloh357

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According to Moody's Industry research firm, Food stamps offer the best economic stimulus as far as how fast money gets infused into the economy.

I sure can throw around all all the numbers I want around, so long as I'm using facts based on the reality of the situation... Because that is what matters.

Yeah, reality is what matters and reality is staring us in the face. Food stamps are not helping the economy at all when you look at what is happening on the ground. More and more people are getting on food stamps and the economy is getting worse, not better. The food stamp stimulus is a myth, no matter who repeats it.

You stimulate the economy with new money, not by recycling old money through the pipe line. Food stamps are only spending money that is already in existence AND food stamp purchaes are not taxed, so the government isn't getting tax revenue from food stamps, either. So it is not helping the government in terms of revenue which it desparately needs.

The best way to stimulate the economy is not by raising taxes and putting peopple out of work and getting them to buy food stamps and live on gov't aid. That loopy liberal strategy doesn't work. The way you stimulate the economy is through more jobs, which creates more tax payers and thus more tax revenue.

I'd also like to ask you from refraining from personal attacks, as calling liberals a backwards bunch isn't productive for discussion. :)

it's not a personal attack. Liberals are backwards when it comes to sound economic policies. They want to reshape the US after the European socialist model. That amounts to the US having to go backwards and becoming like the very countries that people come to the US to get away from. Liberalism is bad for America and for the world. The world would be a better place without the liberal ideas that people like you espouse. Without liberal policies, people can be better educated, wealthier, healthier and able to enjoy the fruits of their labors without government intrusion. Liberalism only offers government tyranny, oppression, loss of freedom, no opportunities, third-world poverty, hopelessness, premature death of preventable diseases, dirty air, dirty water, and over all dispair..

#104
Burning_Ember

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According to Moody's Industry research firm, Food stamps offer the best economic stimulus as far as how fast money gets infused into the economy.

I sure can throw around all all the numbers I want around, so long as I'm using facts based on the reality of the situation... Because that is what matters.

Yeah, reality is what matters and reality is staring us in the face. Food stamps are not helping the economy at all when you look at what is happening on the ground. More and more people are getting on food stamps and the economy is getting worse, not better. The food stamp stimulus is a myth, no matter who repeats it.

You stimulate the economy with new money, not by recycling old money through the pipe line. Food stamps are only spending money that is already in existence AND food stamp purchaes are not taxed, so the government isn't getting tax revenue from food stamps, either. So it is not helping the government in terms of revenue which it desparately needs.

The best way to stimulate the economy is not by raising taxes and putting peopple out of work and getting them to buy food stamps and live on gov't aid. That loopy liberal strategy doesn't work. The way you stimulate the economy is through more jobs, which creates more tax payers and thus more tax revenue.

I'd also like to ask you from refraining from personal attacks, as calling liberals a backwards bunch isn't productive for discussion. :)

it's not a personal attack. Liberals are backwards when it comes to sound economic policies. They want to reshape the US after the European socialist model. That amounts to the US having to go backwards and becoming like the very countries that people come to the US to get away from. Liberalism is bad for America and for the world. The world would be a better place without the liberal ideas that people like you espouse. Without liberal policies, people can be better educated, wealthier, healthier and able to enjoy the fruits of their labors without government intrusion. Liberalism only offers government tyranny, oppression, loss of freedom, no opportunities, third-world poverty, hopelessness, premature death of preventable diseases, dirty air, dirty water, and over all dispair..

You argued that food stamps don't provide stimulus. They do. I've provided proof for that.

You're arguing that people buying things with food stamps doesn't help the economy. Of course it does. They're spending money. At stores. Where business make money and pay employees who then go spend that money, and so on. Which is immediately injected into the economy.

Just because a person getting $31.50 a week in Food Stamps to spend hasn't magically solved all of America's unemployment problems, doesn't mean that it has no impact whatsoever. That's absolutely wrong.

Like I said, if you have a store that had a hundred people spend $130 there in a month, who does it matter to the store, y'know, the job creator, whether that money came from food stamps or from someone earning a wage?

If you want to increase revenue, then you raise taxes. It's that simple. Cutting taxes reduces revenue.

If liberalism didn't work then Canada would not be in a superior economic position to America with a lower unemployment rate, a superior position regarding Government debt and deficits, and a superior growth of GDP.

You said, and I quote; "Sorry but you liberals are a backwards bunch." Of course that's a personal attack. You're discuss a subject with a liberal, at which point you accuse liberals of being backwards.

Whether you feel that is justified to say or not is irrelevant as to whether it is a personal attack.

#105
enoob57

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According to Moody's Industry research firm, Food stamps offer the best economic stimulus as far as how fast money gets infused into the economy.

I sure can throw around all all the numbers I want around, so long as I'm using facts based on the reality of the situation... Because that is what matters.

Yeah, reality is what matters and reality is staring us in the face. Food stamps are not helping the economy at all when you look at what is happening on the ground. More and more people are getting on food stamps and the economy is getting worse, not better. The food stamp stimulus is a myth, no matter who repeats it.

You stimulate the economy with new money, not by recycling old money through the pipe line. Food stamps are only spending money that is already in existence AND food stamp purchaes are not taxed, so the government isn't getting tax revenue from food stamps, either. So it is not helping the government in terms of revenue which it desparately needs.

The best way to stimulate the economy is not by raising taxes and putting peopple out of work and getting them to buy food stamps and live on gov't aid. That loopy liberal strategy doesn't work. The way you stimulate the economy is through more jobs, which creates more tax payers and thus more tax revenue.

I'd also like to ask you from refraining from personal attacks, as calling liberals a backwards bunch isn't productive for discussion. :)

it's not a personal attack. Liberals are backwards when it comes to sound economic policies. They want to reshape the US after the European socialist model. That amounts to the US having to go backwards and becoming like the very countries that people come to the US to get away from. Liberalism is bad for America and for the world. The world would be a better place without the liberal ideas that people like you espouse. Without liberal policies, people can be better educated, wealthier, healthier and able to enjoy the fruits of their labors without government intrusion. Liberalism only offers government tyranny, oppression, loss of freedom, no opportunities, third-world poverty, hopelessness, premature death of preventable diseases, dirty air, dirty water, and over all dispair..

Not to mention all the used diapers
that will be generated...
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#106
shiloh357

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You argued that food stamps don't provide stimulus. They do. I've provided proof for that.


No, you didn't provide proof of it. What you did was parrot someone else. The "proof" is in what is happening in real life. We have add 14 million new people on food stamps. The economy isn't getting better, it's getting worse becaue more people are on government assistance than ever before. No is getting their jobs back because of any alleged revenue that stores get because of food stamps.

You're arguing that people buying things with food stamps doesn't help the economy.

No, B.E., that is not what I am arguing. I am arguing that stimulating the economy is more complicated that simply having people go out and buy stuff, and food stamp revenue is not shown to be stimulating anything. The economy is not in any way improved by spending food stamps and the proof is in the our 15% - 16% unemployment for the last 4 years. Had liberal ideals and values an ounce of merit, the unemployment would be down to around 5% or so. But its not. What few jobs are that can be found, are minimum wage jobs, temp jobs and part-time jobs that don't provide any kind of living wage. People with advanced degrees are forced to work as part-time produce clerks at Walmart Super Centers, or find temporary, day to day work or work at joints like Wendy's or Taco Bell. They are not getting back the high paying jobs they lost. This is because the economy is a shambles and liberals have done nothing but exacerbate and worsen the problem.
Of course it does. They're spending money. At stores. Where business make money and pay employees who then go spend that money, and so on. Which is immediately injected into the economy.

Just because a person getting $31.50 a week in Food Stamps to spend hasn't magically solved all of America's unemployment problems, doesn't mean that it has no impact whatsoever. That's absolutely wrong.


Which only shows why it is safe to say that you don't know squat about how economics work. First of all, food stamps and other forms of government assistance don't have any impact on the economy because they are funded by money that is already in the system. It is money that has already been taxed. When you use food stamps, your purchase is not charged sales tax. So you are not getting tax revenue for the government by using EBT or SNAP funds.

What you are seeming uable to understand is that stimulating the economy is just as much about how money is generated as it is about how money is spent. You stimulate the economy by creating NEW money that was not there before, and the way you do that is through creating new jobs. You can create more tax revenue and more consumer and investor confidence through job growth than you would ever get by raising taxes. When people starting getting back to working in jobs that pay upwards of $50,000 and $60,000, $70,000 a year, they buy things like cars, houses, take expensive vacations, etc.

They start spending incredible amounts of money on high dollar items and they pay taxes on all of those high dollar items in addition to the income tax. But you liberals seem to think that the best way to stimulate the economy is put people on food stampls at about $30 a week and call THAT "econonic stimulus." That is why I said you peopple are backwards. You can't seem to understand that raising taxes is simply not an efficienct means of raising revenue, particularly when raising taxes puts people out of work and reduces the tax base, thus reducing the pool of available tax payers. It sucks the well dry and so the liberal solution to that is tax the last few reaminging employed people to death.

Like I said, if you have a store that had a hundred people spend $130 there in a month, who does it matter to the store, y'know, the job creator, whether that money came from food stamps or from someone earning a wage?

It matters because people who earn wages are able to spend more money than people who live on food stampls. People who have jobs are not subject to having to ration their money each week. When you can only spend $30 a week, you don't buy steak, you don't by frozen shrimp. You learn what $30 dollars a week will buy and you make a way to stretch your limited funds. But when you have a great job due to lower taxes and increased job growth, you have more money and I am sure the store is much happier when you are able to buy Fillet Mignon, T-bone steaks, Talapia, imported cheese, frozen shrimp and other high dollar items. They are much happier about that than they are with only having people who can only afford peanut butter, bread and Rice-a-Roni.


If you want to increase revenue, then you raise taxes. It's that simple. Cutting taxes reduces revenue.

Only in your imagination. When you lower taxes on the job creators and provide extra incentives for them to rehire and to grow additional businesses, you create more tax payers and you generate more tax and spending revenue than with raising taxes. The larger your tax base, the more revenue you have on hand. Right now, if we raise taxes, we will only have enough revenue to fund our government for just over a week or so. Our government is large and top heavy, more tax revenue won't make a dent in what it needs to keep going. That is something you can' seem to understand.

If liberalism didn't work then Canada would not be in a superior economic position to America with a lower unemployment rate, a superior position regarding Government debt and deficits, and a superior growth of GDP.

It is libealism that has taken us down to this point. We were not always this way. it is a liberal government that hates American exceptionalism, that seeks to force into a third-world socialized healthcare system we didn't want, that has continued to run our economy into the dirt that has brought us down even below that of Canada. Liberalism is the problem. If we had commonsense in our government and adminstration, we could probably pull out of this tail spin. But as long as we have immature, irresponsible, incompetent, obstinate, tax and spend liberals in charge, we will continue to be a nation in decline.

You said, and I quote; "Sorry but you liberals are a backwards bunch." Of course that's a personal attack. You're discuss a subject with a liberal, at which point you accuse liberals of being backwards.

Whether you feel that is justified to say or not is irrelevant as to whether it is a personal attack.


And I clarified what that meant and I stand behind it as an accurate assessment of the current blight of social and poltical liberalism on America.

#107
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First of all, food stamps and other forms of government assistance don't have any impact on the economy because they are funded by money that is already in the system. It is money that has already been taxed. When you use food stamps, your purchase is not charged sales tax. So you are not getting tax revenue for the government by using EBT or SNAP funds.



Actually Shiloh in most states Food is not taxed.

http://www.cbpp.org/...fa=view&id=1230

#108
shiloh357

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First of all, food stamps and other forms of government assistance don't have any impact on the economy because they are funded by money that is already in the system. It is money that has already been taxed. When you use food stamps, your purchase is not charged sales tax. So you are not getting tax revenue for the government by using EBT or SNAP funds.



Actually Shiloh in most states Food is not taxed.

http://www.cbpp.org/...fa=view&id=1230


Yeah, but that article is talking about state sales tax. I am talking about federal sales tax, which states can't eliminate. Food stamps have no sales tax, federal or othewise, which is why it can't be said that they stimulate the economy. If stimulating the economy comes from increasing revenue for the federal government by raising taxes, as liberals claim, then food stamps, which provide NO revenue to the federal government cannot be offered up as something that stimulates the economy. Liberals can't have it both ways. If food stamps stimulate the economy without bringing tax dollars to the federal government, then liberals must concede that raising taxes is not the only way to stimulate the economy.

#109
shiloh357

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First of all, food stamps and other forms of government assistance don't have any impact on the economy because they are funded by money that is already in the system. It is money that has already been taxed. When you use food stamps, your purchase is not charged sales tax. So you are not getting tax revenue for the government by using EBT or SNAP funds.



Actually Shiloh in most states Food is not taxed.

http://www.cbpp.org/...fa=view&id=1230


Yeah, but that article is talking about state sales tax. I am talking about federal sales tax, which states can't eliminate. Food stamps have no sales tax, federal or othewise, which is why it can't be said that they stimulate the economy. If stimulating the economy comes from increasing revenue for the federal government by raising taxes, as liberals claim, then food stamps, which provide NO revenue to the federal government cannot be offered up as something that stimulates the economy. Liberals can't have it both ways. If food stamps stimulate the economy without bringing tax dollars to the federal government, then liberals must concede that raising taxes is not the only way to stimulate the economy.


there is no federal sales tax on food.

My bad. You are correct. But my point still stands: Food stamps do not serve as economic stimulus

#110
ayin jade

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My state does not have a sales tax on food but each city and county in my state taxes food. They used to have a lower tax rate but that changed with this economy.

#111
enoob57

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My state does not have a sales tax on food but each city and county in my state taxes food. They used to have a lower tax rate but that changed with this economy.


if you dont mind me asking, which state is that?

Little Mexico senior
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#112
ayin jade

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My state does not have a sales tax on food but each city and county in my state taxes food. They used to have a lower tax rate but that changed with this economy.


if you dont mind me asking, which state is that?


Utah south, norte mexico, arizona. The last is its official name.

#113
FresnoJoe

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Utah south, norte mexico, arizona. The last is its official name.....


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