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What is the standard by which we will be judged?

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#1
TrackerJack

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How will we be judged when we enter God's presence?

From a secularly legal perspective. We can't be judged by laws that aren't on the books. There must be some means of knowing what is legal behaviour, otherwise a judge can arbitrarily pass judgement on anyone for anything. How does that translate to the spiritual realm?

Although the law may be written on our hearts, I really believe that there must be a black and white definition of what's expected of us. I see that as the Torah. We may not be able to keep all 613 laws. They illustrate that we can never measure up to God's perfection, without a redeemer. I honestly believe that we will be judged based upon those laws on Judgement Day. If we are found guilty of one, we will be condemned to hell. Our only hope is the redeeming blood of Jesus Christ.

That leads to the next question.

If we are judged by these laws, why aren't we attempting to follow them as best we can?

#2
GoldenEagle

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Are you saying we're judged by the Torah and the 613 Jewish laws as Christians on when Christ returns? :hmmm:

#3
GoldenEagle

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The 613 rules/laws in the Mosaic Law are given to a very specific group of people at a very specific point in time.

For Christians today to try and follow them would be the same as our country trying to follow the laws of Ancient Persia, it just makes no sense.


Okay so then what do you propose as Christians we should follow?

How will we be judged on Judgement day do you think?

#4
silviawang

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---the righteousness will live by faith
---without faith ,it is impossible to please GOD
---"daughter,your faith make you well"

pls read Romans

#5
Tinky

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The unsaved will be judged at the Great White Throne by God's Law, the 10 Commandments, and by their works. Their damnation is settled due to their rejection of the Gospel. This judgement will determine their level of suffering in hell.


The saved will be judged at the Judgement Seat of Christ based upon our works following our conversion. This judgement has nothing to do with our salvation - that issue was settled when we repented and placed our faith in Jesus. This judgement will determine whether we gain or lose rewards (crowns).

Even so, we will cast those crowns at the feet of the Lord Jesus, because to Him belongs all the glory! :heart:

#6
Farmgal

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How will we be judged when we enter God's presence?

From a secularly legal perspective. We can't be judged by laws that aren't on the books. There must be some means of knowing what is legal behaviour, otherwise a judge can arbitrarily pass judgement on anyone for anything. How does that translate to the spiritual realm?

Although the law may be written on our hearts, I really believe that there must be a black and white definition of what's expected of us. I see that as the Torah. We may not be able to keep all 613 laws. They illustrate that we can never measure up to God's perfection, without a redeemer. I honestly believe that we will be judged based upon those laws on Judgement Day. If we are found guilty of one, we will be condemned to hell. Our only hope is the redeeming blood of Jesus Christ.

That leads to the next question.

If we are judged by these laws, why aren't we attempting to follow them as best we can?

We're not judged by the law because we're no longer under the law. We are led by the Spirit, not the letter:

2 Cor 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The standard is Christ, the Bible tells us to pick up our cross daily and die to ourselves, it is no longer I that lives, but Christ who lives in me. We are conforming to the image of Christ, running a race:

Ephesians 4:13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

#7
TrackerJack

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So, is the Pagan no longer under the law?

What about the Jew?

Edited by TrackerJack, 15 November 2012 - 11:09 AM.


#8
GoldenEagle

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Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

Matt 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world



ETA: to answer your first question, we as Christians should follow Christ


I agree. :thumbsup:

#9
GoldenEagle

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The unsaved will be judged at the Great White Throne by God's Law, the 10 Commandments, and by their works. Their damnation is settled due to their rejection of the Gospel. This judgement will determine their level of suffering in hell.


The saved will be judged at the Judgement Seat of Christ based upon our works following our conversion. This judgement has nothing to do with our salvation - that issue was settled when we repented and placed our faith in Jesus. This judgement will determine whether we gain or lose rewards (crowns).

Even so, we will cast those crowns at the feet of the Lord Jesus, because to Him belongs all the glory! :heart:


I agree. :thumbsup:

What is the Biblical backing for these thoughts in bold?

#10
TrackerJack

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You've all missed the point.

What is the STANDARD by which mankind is judged?


That's the question. The Answer to the question is PERFECTION, as outlined by God in the Torah.

This is nothing we can achieve by ourselves, because each one of us has sinned. I'm in complete agreement with everyone that Salvation can only come from our faith in the saving grace of Jesus Christ. If we have a relationship with Him we will be saved. All the works in the world won't save us.

But why isn't the Christian body even attempting to live up to that standard?

Who here does laundry or yard work on Saturday/Sunday (depending upon how you observe the sabbath)? The church body as a whole has a cavalier attitude towards sin. They act presumptuously before the Lord. Don't you think that acting this way grieves the Lord?

#11
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You've all missed the point.

What is the STANDARD by which mankind is judged?


That's the question. The Answer to the question is PERFECTION, as outlined by God in the Torah.

This is nothing we can achieve by ourselves, because each one of us has sinned. I'm in complete agreement with everyone that Salvation can only come from our faith in the saving grace of Jesus Christ. If we have a relationship with Him we will be saved. All the works in the world won't save us.

But why isn't the Christian body even attempting to live up to that standard?

Who here does laundry or yard work on Saturday/Sunday (depending upon how you observe the sabbath)? The church body as a whole has a cavalier attitude towards sin. They act presumptuously before the Lord.
Don't you think that acting this way grieves the Lord?



2 Thessalonians 2
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

#12
GoldenEagle

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You've all missed the point.

What is the STANDARD by which mankind is judged?


That's the question. The Answer to the question is PERFECTION, as outlined by God in the Torah.

This is nothing we can achieve by ourselves, because each one of us has sinned. I'm in complete agreement with everyone that Salvation can only come from our faith in the saving grace of Jesus Christ. If we have a relationship with Him we will be saved. All the works in the world won't save us.


Absolutel essential--by grace and the power of the Holy Spitit in the name of Christ--are "good works." As we see in Matthew25:31-42, without such works we share the same lot with Satan and his demons.


So Numenian if I have a friend who's name is Bob who has been an atheist all his life and I share the Gospel with him at his deathbed... He confesses Jesus Christ as His Lord and Savior, believing Jesus died for his sins and God raised Jesus again... Then a couple of minutes later Bob dies. Is Bob going to Heaven to be with God eternally or Hell - sharing the same fate as Satan and his demons? I mean he really didn't have a chance to do any good works...

Rom. 10:8-9
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

#13
TrackerJack

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We are fully righteous, justified in the eyes of the Father, by the blood of Christ that covers us.


So I have a license to sin?

#14
TrackerJack

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I admit, I do laundry and yard work, and actual paid work on both Sunday and Saturday.
I have never stoned my children being stubborn and rebellious
I have held my wife’s hand during her menstrual cycle
The shirt I am wearing is made of more than one type of fiber
and lastly, this past weekend I made seafood gumbo that had multiple types of shellfish as well as pork sausage in it.


But did you repent?

#15
gdemoss

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What is the standard by which we will be judged?


Everyone will be judged based upon that which they have been given by God to know, revealed as truth to them by him. Either they will have believed God and it will be accounted to them for righteousness and they shall be saved through the shed blood of Christ upon the cross of Calvary, or they will be found as unbelievers and cast into the lake of fire for not believing the testimony that God made of himself and calling him a liar.

Works cannot save a person. Works merely can condemn a person through revealing their unbelief. We all have works and those works simply define our faith. We must have a saving faith in order to be saved by believing what God has said and having it accounted to us for righteousness.

What is revealed unto any single person as true is in Gods control, not ours. We are responsible to live and walk in the light we have been given. I cannot judge or condemn anyone because I do not know whether or not God has revealed that which is true about what I see unto that individual. My words and behaviors that bear witness of God in me do condemn those that are around me though. They teach others by example that we can live a certain way as God expects us too. The light that is shed through me makes manifest the darkness of those who are around me.

I do not believe that the law is the standard by which we will be judged, nor do I believe that I am expected to keep the law of God as it is written and revealed in the Old Testament scriptures. I believe we can and should learn from the law and use it lawfully as we are told in scripture. We should not desire to be teachers of the law unto others as those who do such things are said to be those who don't know what they are talking about.

As a Christian, I simply need Jesus. My Savior came and shed his blood upon the tree on Calvary because he loved me. He was buried and subsequently resurrected unto life again by the Holy Spirit of the Living God. He came again and taught his disciples before he was raised bodily into Heaven and received of a cloud where he stands at the right hand of God our Father. He sent Jim Shaffer unto me to preach and teach the Gospel to me after I was made ready to hear it. The Father revealed unto my heart that Jesus was in fact his Son who has been made Lord over all and is the express image of his person. And now I have the Spirit of God in me and he teaches me the truth about the word of God and empowers me to do all his will. I have received a love of the truth and desire to walk in all his ways through the power of his Spirit and not according to my own strength. The love of God is being perfected in me and shed abroad in my heart by the Holy Spirit and I have no fear of standing before him when judgment comes. I simply need Jesus as both Lord and Savior. I need to love God and hate evil. End of story.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

#16
joi

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If you read the Torah (Teachings) you will find that there were no jails in which to incarcerate criminals.
There was one who sat as judge who heard a case as presented, and he was unarmed. The teachings of God were so very ingrained in the people that their conscious caused them to respond in accordance with the judgment handed them, by this judge. Usually they were fined for damages.
Adultery was punished in both the man and the woman. This was done probably only in Israel because in other countries women were treated as a belonging, like a piece of furniture, where she alone was punished, because her actions were considered an affront to her husband.
Perhaps God, in His perfection, will be generous with us in His judgments, though we do not deserve it.

#17
GoldenEagle

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So Numenian if I have a friend who's name is Bob who has been an atheist all his life and I share the Gospel with him at his deathbed... He confesses Jesus Christ as His Lord and Savior, believing Jesus died for his sins and God raised Jesus again... Then a couple of minutes later Bob dies. Is Bob going to Heaven to be with God eternally or Hell - sharing the same fate as Satan and his demons? I mean he really didn't have a chance to do any good works...

Rom. 10:8-9
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.


Apples and oranges, goldeneagle. Do you really believe that Jesus expected the thief crucified next to Him to, after hanging around for awhile, go do good works? Of course if, like the thief, he was sincere he goes to heaven. You and I saved for many years need to be tending to the least of these is the very simple point I was bringing out. Do you agree or disagree? Did you know this essential point? It seems you are saying that faith without works is okey-dokey as long as "you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Did you read Matthew25:31-46?



I'm not saying faith without works is okey-dokey. Lol. Faith without works is of little value if any at all. (James 2:14-26) However, good works do not save. Bob would’ve still gone to Heaven in our scenario. Not much to throw at the Lamb’s feet but still Jesus loved our example in Bob for salvation just as much as you and I have who’ve been Christians over 20 years. (See Matt. 20:1-6) We agree on this?



Good works are a consequence of faith. Not the other way around. First you must confess and believe in Jesus Christ then you can do good works that will please God. No matter how much good a lost person does they do it in vain for they are judged by the law as has been pointed out. We agree on this?

James 2:14-26
http://www.biblegate... 2&version=NKJV

Matt. 20:1-16
http://www.biblegate...16&version=NKJV

However, salvation is through faith alone in Jesus Christ. (Eph. 2:8-9) We agree on this?

Eph. 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.


This is great agreeing on things. :)

God bless brother,
GE

#18
TrackerJack

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obeying the commandments denies both grace and the HS.


Really?

#19
GoldenEagle

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I thoroughly agree, good works are a consequence, really incidental to, faith. We do not do them. If it is good, I did not do it. Good works are beyond our control and motivation. Grace gives us the will and the HS the strength. No boast and no merit. Ergo, duty is subterfuge of Satan; obeying the commandments denies both grace and the HS. One or the other is true: our will or that of grace. if grace, we act in the full righteous of God. If by wiil we obey, it is just but falls short of the full righteous of God. Genuine love determines the difference between law and grace.


I agree in bold. :thumbsup:

Curious like Tracker Jack on this section underlined. Possible to clarify and provide Biblical backing please?

God bless,
GE

#20
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How will we be judged when we enter God's presence?


Your question actually has more layers than you think. First who is the we? Do you mean the saints.

But if we take the question for simply for what it is, the answer is simple. Christ is the standard, by which all men will be judged.




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