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When are the dead ressurected?

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#1
AlexanderJ

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When are the dead ressurected? I have encountered the idea often (esp. among Jehovah's Witnesses) that the dead remain in an unconcious state until a certain time in the future when Jesus returns. I have always thought that the souls of the dead go to Paradise (not Heaven) immediately and in a conscious state i.e. ...Jesus said unto him...To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Luke 23:43. Then, at the final ressurection, those souls in Paradise and those who die in the time around the Tribulation will recieve a glorified physical body, and will be caught up into heaven.

I have a hard time understanding how it is that the dead could be in an unconscious state of "limbo" before the Ressurection especially when Jesus says things like this:

Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

I suppose that it is possible that the those Christians who die depart immediately from the realms of time and find themselves in Heaven right away, because they would not experience the duration of time (as physical beings do) and would find themselves at the end of time immediately.

Any thoughts or ideas regarding this?

Edited by AlexanderJ, 21 November 2012 - 03:27 PM.


#2
allofgrace

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2 Cor 5:6-8 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
Rev 7:14-15 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.
Each of these show that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. The Rev 7 passage shows that the saints killed during the tribulation are before the throne of God serving Him in His temple. Not to mention when Steven was killed he saw the Lord standing and the Lord welcomed Steven into His presence as soon as he died. Others may say things but it is contrary to what scriptures say, always believe the scripture. Remembering also that Jesus says to the believer, I will never leave you nor forsake.

Edited by allofgrace, 21 November 2012 - 04:01 PM.


#3
Tinky

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It is my belief that believers that die go immediately into the presence of the Lord, and the souls of the wicked dead go into Hades to await the final judgement. Those believers that are living when the Rapture occurs will be transformed at that moment, with the bodies of dead believers being resurrected just before. After the 1000 year Millennial reign of Jesus, the bodies of the lost will be resurrected at the Great White throne Judgement, with their final destination being the Lake of Fire.

#4
Editor1

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So what about people who would have been dead so long that their bodies would have decayed?

#5
AlexanderJ

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So what about people who would have been dead so long that their bodies would have decayed?


Somehow, I don't think that this would be a major difficulty for a God that spoke the universe into existence.

#6
shiloh357

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It is my belief that believers that die go immediately into the presence of the Lord, and the souls of the wicked dead go into Hades to await the final judgement. Those believers that are living when the Rapture occurs will be transformed at that moment, with the bodies of dead believers being resurrected just before. After the 1000 year Millennial reign of Jesus, the bodies of the lost will be resurrected at the Great White throne Judgement, with their final destination being the Lake of Fire.

:thumbsup:

#7
His Ambassador

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So what about people who would have been dead so long that their bodies would have decayed?


I know I will catch some flack for this but that's OK. God has shown me this spiritual truth: The resurrection of the dead (usually called the "first resurrection") has already occurred in the spiritual realm. The first trumpet has sounded in the spiritual realm. Those Believers who die today go directly to Paradise (holding place for the righteous dead) to be with the Lord and those who were resurrected. See what Jesus told the thief on the cross. Paradise is not Heaven. Paradise is the "holding place" of the righteous dead awaiting. No Jesus is not just "sitting at the right hand of God". He is busy creating a place for us. After the judgments our eternal home will be the New Earth. See Rev. 20 & 21. We will have spiritual bodies.

#8
AlexanderJ

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The first trumpet has sounded in the spiritual realm.


Can you present Scripture to substantiate this claim? I'm not challenging in a negative way - just curious.

Are you refering to our being "seated with Christ in the heavenly places"? (Ephesians 2:6)

Edited by AlexanderJ, 21 November 2012 - 11:09 PM.


#9
gdemoss

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I suppose that it is possible that the those Christians who die depart immediately from the realms of time and find themselves in Heaven right away, because they would not experience the duration of time (as physical beings do) and would find themselves at the end of time immediately.

Any thoughts or ideas regarding this?


The Perceived Possibility of Time Travel?

Jhn 6:21 Then they willingly received him into the ship: and immediately the ship was at the land whither they went.

Don't know....

Gary

#10
allofgrace

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So what about people who would have been dead so long that their bodies would have decayed?


I know I will catch some flack for this but that's OK. God has shown me this spiritual truth: The resurrection of the dead (usually called the "first resurrection") has already occurred in the spiritual realm. The first trumpet has sounded in the spiritual realm. Those Believers who die today go directly to Paradise (holding place for the righteous dead) to be with the Lord and those who were resurrected. See what Jesus told the thief on the cross. Paradise is not Heaven. Paradise is the "holding place" of the righteous dead awaiting. No Jesus is not just "sitting at the right hand of God". He is busy creating a place for us. After the judgments our eternal home will be the New Earth. See Rev. 20 & 21. We will have spiritual bodies.


Jesus is seated the scriptures say in heaven, Eph 1:20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, and also in Heb 8:1 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, These two should suffice as evidence for that and to say that He is not seated at the right hand of God because He is creating a place for us, how long does it take to speak something into existence? Besides, when He said that He was going to prepare a place for us, He could have meant that His dying is what prepared a way for us to be able to go where He would be, it surely wasn't that He was going to get a construction crew of angels and start building. :emot-shakehead: And the saints that will die during the tribulation are specifically said to be in the present of God before His throne, Rev 7:13-15 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. So to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord and He is in heaven.

#11
OldShep

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So what about people who would have been dead so long that their bodies would have decayed?


I know I will catch some flack for this but that's OK. God has shown me this spiritual truth: The resurrection of the dead (usually called the "first resurrection") has already occurred in the spiritual realm. The first trumpet has sounded in the spiritual realm. Those Believers who die today go directly to Paradise (holding place for the righteous dead) to be with the Lord and those who were resurrected. See what Jesus told the thief on the cross. Paradise is not Heaven. Paradise is the "holding place" of the righteous dead awaiting. No Jesus is not just "sitting at the right hand of God". He is busy creating a place for us. After the judgments our eternal home will be the New Earth. See Rev. 20 & 21. We will have spiritual bodies.


Hmmm!!
2Co_5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

#12
hippias

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According to the word of God as given by Paul in his letter to the Thessalonians the resurrection of the dead and the return of God has taken place during Paul's life-time:
For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord: that we who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first; then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Thess 15-18)

#13
allofgrace

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Shall is future and Paul did not declare that it had happened yet. So shall we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them(the bodies of the dead in Christ) and we shall forever be with the Lord. Have all Christians been taken up? You need to read on because chapter and verses were not in the original manuscripts and Paul tells them that this will happen at the Lord's coming, 1 Thess 5:1-11 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing. The comfort to them and to believers ever since this time is that whether one dies or is alive when He comes back, the believer will be with the Lord.

#14
His Ambassador

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The first trumpet has sounded in the spiritual realm.


Can you present Scripture to substantiate this claim? I'm not challenging in a negative way - just curious.

Are you refering to our being "seated with Christ in the heavenly places"? (Ephesians 2:6)


There is none that specifically says the trumpet will sound in the spiritual realm. As I said God revealed that to me through a prophetess back in the 80s.

#15
AlexanderJ

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There is none that specifically says the trumpet will sound in the spiritual realm. As I said God revealed that to me through a prophetess back in the 80s.


If there is no Scriptural support for what you claim (I'm not saying that there isn't, I simply wish to see it myself), how can we know that it is the truth and not an invention of man? New revelation must be held up against Scripture to validate it.

Acts 17:11 ...they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things (the teachings of Paul and Silas) were so.

#16
His Ambassador

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So what about people who would have been dead so long that their bodies would have decayed?


I know I will catch some flack for this but that's OK. God has shown me this spiritual truth: The resurrection of the dead (usually called the "first resurrection") has already occurred in the spiritual realm. The first trumpet has sounded in the spiritual realm. Those Believers who die today go directly to Paradise (holding place for the righteous dead) to be with the Lord and those who were resurrected. See what Jesus told the thief on the cross. Paradise is not Heaven. Paradise is the "holding place" of the righteous dead awaiting. No Jesus is not just "sitting at the right hand of God". He is busy creating a place for us. After the judgments our eternal home will be the New Earth. See Rev. 20 & 21. We will have spiritual bodies.


Jesus is seated the scriptures say in heaven, Eph 1:20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, and also in Heb 8:1 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, There is no evidence that Jesus remains seated there for all time. These two should suffice as evidence for that and to say that He is not seated at the right hand of God because He is creating a place for us, how long does it take to speak something into existence? Besides, when He said that He was going to prepare a place for us, He could have meant that His dying is what prepared a way for us (That's a bit of a stretch) to be able to go where He would be, it surely wasn't that He was going to get a construction crew of angels and start building. :emot-shakehead: And the saints that will die during the tribulation are specifically said to be in the present of God before His throne, Rev 7:13-15 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from. 14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. So to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord and He is in heaven. That is based on the assumption that Jesus never moves from that spot.



#17
His Ambassador

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So what about people who would have been dead so long that their bodies would have decayed?


I know I will catch some flack for this but that's OK. God has shown me this spiritual truth: The resurrection of the dead (usually called the "first resurrection") has already occurred in the spiritual realm. The first trumpet has sounded in the spiritual realm. Those Believers who die today go directly to Paradise (holding place for the righteous dead) to be with the Lord and those who were resurrected. See what Jesus told the thief on the cross. Paradise is not Heaven. Paradise is the "holding place" of the righteous dead awaiting. No Jesus is not just "sitting at the right hand of God". He is busy creating a place for us. After the judgments our eternal home will be the New Earth. See Rev. 20 & 21. We will have spiritual bodies.


Hmmm!!
2Co_5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.


Read my post again. That's what I said.

#18
His Ambassador

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There is none that specifically says the trumpet will sound in the spiritual realm. As I said God revealed that to me through a prophetess back in the 80s.


If there is no Scriptural support for what you claim (I'm not saying that there isn't, I simply wish to see it myself), how can we know that it is the truth and not an invention of man? New revelation must be held up against Scripture to validate it.

Acts 17:11 ...they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things (the teachings of Paul and Silas) were so.


The Bible says "The trumpet shall sound and the dead in Christ shall rise........" The Bible does not say whether that's in our physical realm or the spiritual realm. But what I have been told does not contradict Scripture. It's just not commonly taught.

#19
AlexanderJ

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"The trumpet shall sound and the dead in Christ shall rise........"

Unless I am mistaken, we are still in the same Dispensation of time as the Apostle Paul. The verse above uses the future tense - evidently refering to a future event that has not come to pass yet. If I read the complete picture presented by Paul, I cannot understand how it could be supporting what you have proposed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

We have not, as I understand it, experienced any of the occurrences in this verse.

#20
His Ambassador

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"The trumpet shall sound and the dead in Christ shall rise........"

Unless I am mistaken, we are still in the same Dispensation of time as the Apostle Paul. The verse above uses the future tense - evidently refering to a future event that has not come to pass yet. If I read the complete picture presented by Paul, I cannot understand how it could be supporting what you have proposed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

We have not, as I understand it, experienced any of the occurrences in this verse.


Dispensations is not a Biblical term or teaching. I did not post what I have been told to debate it but to inform.




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