Jump to content

christian forums

Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Forums

Welcome to Worthy Christian Forums
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

A Woman of Influence: Prov. 31

* * * * * 1 votes Influence Woman Proverbs 31

This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
31 replies to this topic

#1
GoldenEagle

GoldenEagle

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,434 posts
Proverbs 31 gets a lot of attention on Mothers Day worldwide possibly more than any time of the year. However, we were teaching about virtue today and I decided to present this to others.

The majority of the proverb describes a virtuous woman who leads her home with integrity, discipline, and giftedness. This wife and mother in the last proverbs is a leader not because she tries to be one, but because of who she is.

A. Her Assets:

She is trustworthy (v. 11)
She is a positive influence (v. 12)
She is a hard worker (v. 13, 14, 19, 24-27)
She is a planner (v. 21, 22)
She is protective (v. 27)

B. Her Achievements
She meets the needs of her home (v. 15)
She invests for her household (v. 16)
She keeps herself in shape (v. 17)
She helps her husband become successful. (v. 23)

C. Her Attitudes
Delightful (v. 13)
Healthy (v. 18)
Compassionate (v. 20)
Unselfish (v. 20)
Public (v. 25)

D. Her Applause
From her family (v. 28)
From her husband (v. 28, 29)
From God's Word (v. 30)
From her works (v. 31)

Your thoughts? Anything I missed or you'd like to add/comment on?

God bless,
GE

Source: Leadership material from John C. Maxwell



#2
AlexanderJ

AlexanderJ

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 305 posts
Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
Proverbs 31:10


#3
OneLight

OneLight

    Royal Member

  • Servant
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 26,428 posts
It is interesting that Wisdom is referred to as She throughout Proverbs, and reflects upon the words of a mother. She (Wisdom) is the beginning of knowledge in Christ.

The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel:

To know wisdom and instruction,
To perceive the words of understanding,
To receive the instruction of wisdom,
Justice, judgment, and equity;
To give prudence to the simple,
To the young man knowledge and discretion—
A wise man will hear and increase learning,
And a man of understanding will attain wise counsel,
To understand a proverb and an enigma,
The words of the wise and their riddles.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

My son, hear the instruction of your father,
And do not forsake the law of your mother;
For they will be a graceful ornament on your head,
And chains about your neck.


#4
Fez

Fez

    Royal Member

  • Servant
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,511 posts

It is interesting that Wisdom is referred to as She throughout Proverbs, and reflects upon the words of a mother. She (Wisdom) is the beginning of knowledge in Christ.


You know, I have never looked at it like that, and it bears more contemplation. You have me thinking. (and that's a difficult thing to do late on a Sunday night)

#5
LadyC

LadyC

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,650 posts
earlier this year, when studying proverbs, this is what stood out to me... maybe because i needed to hear it at the time. some of the traits of a proverbs 31 woman include not just being a hard worker, but being a good business woman. she doesn't just work inside the home, she works outside the home. she runs her household AND a business. and she's the financial brain of the family.

in a day when being a stay at home mom is see by many christians as the biblical model, this is really important. being a working mom vs. a stay at home mom is such a hotly debated issue that we all lose sight of what God really expects.

the proverbs 31 woman did take care of her household. but she had maidservants. she didn't stay at home doing the cooking, cleaning, and diapering all by herself. she had other people 'working' for her. she delegated. she instructed others how she wanted her household run and her children cared for. and then she went out and made major decisions about how the household income was spent. she made major investments. she turned a profit and reinvested those profits.

she was also self employed. she was the buyer, the designer, the creator, and the salesman. she earned a living. not everybody these days has the skills to run their own business... and many women have to hold down jobs working for someone else. and that's ok!

i'm not trying to hijack the thread, i just want us to really, REALLY consider ALL that being a virtuous woman is, because i know i used to have a much narrower view.and i know that there are a lot of women who struggle with the desire to be a godly stay-at-home-mother, but can't reconcile that with their need to help earn additional income in the family. and if there are women reading this thread, please, DON'T feel like you're failing. you can be a virtuous woman by Biblical standards even if you have to work outside the home while someone else takes care of the kids.

(is that still on topic?)

#6
FresnoJoe

FresnoJoe

    Royal Member

  • Worthy Watchman
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 42,776 posts

i'm not trying to hijack the thread, i just want us to really, REALLY consider ALL that being a virtuous woman is, because i know i used to have a much narrower view.and i know that there are a lot of women who struggle with the desire to be a godly stay-at-home-mother, but can't reconcile that with their need to help earn additional income in the family. and if there are women reading this thread, please, DON'T feel like you're failing. you can be a virtuous woman by Biblical standards even if you have to work outside the home while someone else takes care of the kids.

(is that still on topic?)


Yeap~!

#7
BlessedByTheBest

BlessedByTheBest

    Veteran Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 819 posts
ok let's do this officially.. :biggrin2:

in chapter 8 of Proverbs, we can discover a contrast in God's attribute of perfect astuteness..or Wisdom..with that of the virtuous Woman.



Proverbs 8


8 Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
2 She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
3 She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.
4 Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man.
5 O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.
6 Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.
7 For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.
8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.
9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.
10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.
11 For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
12 I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.
13 The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
18 Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
19 My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.
22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord.
36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.



our God is awesome...

#8
enoob57

enoob57

    Royal Member

  • Soapbox - Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,167 posts
the excellence required of the Bride....

#9
GoldenEagle

GoldenEagle

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,434 posts

Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
Proverbs 31:10


So true! :thumbsup:

#10
GoldenEagle

GoldenEagle

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,434 posts

earlier this year, when studying proverbs, this is what stood out to me... maybe because i needed to hear it at the time. some of the traits of a proverbs 31 woman include not just being a hard worker, but being a good business woman. she doesn't just work inside the home, she works outside the home. she runs her household AND a business. and she's the financial brain of the family.

<snip>


This is an interesting post/comment LadyC. I agree that this woman in Proverbs 31 probably had many servants working for and with her. A woman working for someone else completely acceptable I agree as not everyone is an entrepreneur – this goes for both men and women. Personally I was trying to focus more on the characteristics of a godly woman.

She is trustworthy (v. 11), a positive influence (v. 12), a hard worker (v. 13, 14, 19, 24-27), a planner (v. 21, 22), and protective (v. 27)

She is Delightful (v. 13), Healthy (v. 18), Compassionate (v. 20), Unselfish (v. 20), handles herself well in Public (v. 25).

By the nature of the order listed of her achievements I think meeting the needs of her home (v. 15) comes before investing for her household. (v. 16) Her job is to help her husband be successful (v. 23).

Now, if you’ve seen some of my posts (sevenseas can attest to this I believe) in the past I believe there is the argument that I’m a very strong supporter of women. My concern though is when the career is more important to a woman than her family. Of course I would argue the same thing would be a concern for men who put their careers above their family.

God bless,
GE

#11
enoob57

enoob57

    Royal Member

  • Soapbox - Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,167 posts
Trick 'IS' to love exactly where God Has brought us into being With Him -male, female, rich, poor, pretty, pretty ugly...
as Holiness is not the evaluation of ourselves to others but His of us >.<
then if this 'IS' so= we will be beautiful in His Pleasure of us!!! Love, Steven

#12
LadyC

LadyC

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,650 posts
GE, you're right, the other qualities are at least as important.. i'm not sure any of them is "more" important than any other. i think they're pretty much equal in God's eyes.

the reason i zeroed in on one aspect is because even though the subject of a virtuous woman can be discussed separately from working, the subject (among christians) of women who work outside the home is nearly impossible to separate from provebs 31. just ask any woman on these boards.... it's probably something that as a man, you've never noticed. but as a woman we're nearly brutalized on a daily basis (not just here, but among our christian peers everywhere) for supposedly violating the qualities of godliness if we work while our children are young. and proverbs 31 is used almost exclusively to back up the position that a woman should be at home. (which is great, but it's not always economically feasible!)

it may have been something i should have created a new thread for instead of trying to draw attention to one aspect. sorry.

#13
GoldenEagle

GoldenEagle

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,434 posts

GE, you're right, the other qualities are at least as important.. I’m not sure any of them is "more" important than any other. I think they're pretty much equal in God's eyes.

the reason i zeroed in on one aspect is because even though the subject of a virtuous woman can be discussed separately from working, the subject (among Christians) of women who work outside the home is nearly impossible to separate from proverbs 31. just ask any woman on these boards.... it's probably something that as a man, you've never noticed. but as a woman we're nearly brutalized on a daily basis (not just here, but among our Christian peers everywhere) for supposedly violating the qualities of godliness if we work while our children are young. and proverbs 31 is used almost exclusively to back up the position that a woman should be at home. (which is great, but it's not always economically feasible!)

it may have been something i should have created a new thread for instead of trying to draw attention to one aspect. sorry.


Hey LadyC… I am a guy so you are right… So I’m looking at this passage from a guy’s perspective. ;)

Feel free to discuss this topic (women working) on this thread as I believe it is related and not off-topic. My previous post was simply an opinion. Perhaps I didn’t clarify sister.

Sometimes threads are not a straight line but more of an ebb and flow. Seeking God's truth together is the main thing...

How do you feel when a woman is told she is to stay at home to be a godly woman?

Some other questions that come to mind I’d like to open up for anyone to answer…

A. What of single women or widows? How are they to make a living and care for their family if they don’t work outside the home?

B. Say that a husband’s job (not too far off in this economy) doesn’t cover all the bills. Is a woman to stay at home even though she could find (part-time or full-time) work to help with the finances?

God bless,
GE

#14
nebula

nebula

    Royal Member

  • Worthy Watchman
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 56,992 posts
I don't mind these parts

A. Her Assets:

She is trustworthy (v. 11)
She is a positive influence (v. 12)
She is a hard worker (v. 13, 14, 19, 24-27)

She is protective (v. 27)

B. Her Achievements
She meets the needs of her home (v. 15)

She helps her husband become successful. (v. 23)

C. Her Attitudes
Delightful (v. 13)

Compassionate (v. 20)
Unselfish (v. 20)

D. Her Applause
From her family (v. 28)
From her husband (v. 28, 29)
From God's Word (v. 30)
From her works (v. 31)



But I have a problem with these parts:

A. Her Assets:

She is a planner (v. 21, 22)

B. Her Achievements

She invests for her household (v. 16)
She keeps herself in shape (v. 17)

C. Her Attitudes

Healthy (v. 18)

Public (v. 25)


I'm not skilled at planning.
I'm not a financial wizard
I'm not athletically inclined
I have health issues that can't be healed naturally
I'm introverted

:online2long:


Can any woman possibly be this super-woman described here?


P.S. When does she have time to relax, pamper herself, play with the children, play with her husband?

#15
LadyC

LadyC

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,650 posts
GE, how do i feel when a woman is told she has to stay home to be godly? NOW i feel like an angry bear! but until recently, i was very ambivalent. i thought it was probably true according to scripture, i felt frustrated that it's so difficult for many women to achieve that level of "godliness", and i felt God was uncaring and unfair. i also felt guilty for not measuring up, worthless because it was just one more area where i'd failed God and my family, and indignant that anyone would dare criticize me for something i had no control over. i spent nearly a decade as a single mom. during that time i worked full time, and for a year and a half i home-schooled the children by day and worked by night.

these days i'm married, my children are grown, and i find myself wishing i had kids in the house to give me an excuse not to work outside the home! and i wish i were more business minded and diligent with making my jewelry so that maybe i could make/sell that full time and not have to work a real job to help pay the bills.

#16
LadyC

LadyC

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,650 posts

I don't mind these parts


A. Her Assets:

She is trustworthy (v. 11)
She is a positive influence (v. 12)
She is a hard worker (v. 13, 14, 19, 24-27)

She is protective (v. 27)

B. Her Achievements
She meets the needs of her home (v. 15)

She helps her husband become successful. (v. 23)

C. Her Attitudes
Delightful (v. 13)

Compassionate (v. 20)
Unselfish (v. 20)

D. Her Applause
From her family (v. 28)
From her husband (v. 28, 29)
From God's Word (v. 30)
From her works (v. 31)



But I have a problem with these parts:

A. Her Assets:

She is a planner (v. 21, 22)


i'm sure God knows we all 'plan' differently. i plan more by the seat of my pants than in any organized manner. the actual text of the scripture reads that she has no fear of winter because her household is clothed in scarlet (NKJV) or with warm clothes (NLT). i think the nkjv is more accurate, and has nothing to do with clothes. i think it is referring to her dedication to covering the family with the blood (of sacrifice and burnt offerings back then, but with the blood of Jesus now.)

B. Her Achievements

She invests for her household (v. 16)


the scripture reads she considers a field and buys it. not every wife is going to want or need to buy a field. the issue is really about good stewardship with the household finances. whether you're investing in the ingredients for a meal or an acre of land, God expects us to do so wisely.

She keeps herself in shape (v. 17)


LOL, Golden Eagle's male perspective is shining through, isn't it? ;) i really am not intending to nullify anything he said... when he reads the scripture, how he worded the qualities is what he envisioned when he read them. the same thing can mean different things. in verse 17, it doesn't say she goes to the gym to work out, it says she gird herself with strength, and a hard worker. you strengthening of arms can be metaphorical too, as in nurturing and comforting. while it's easy to think of those as physical qualities, it can also mean mental or emotional abilities as well. i know that your brain is never idle. you're a smart woman, and you use your abilities.

C. Her Attitudes

Healthy (v. 18)

verse 18 says she perceives her merchandise as good and her lamp burns bright even at night. to me that doesn't scream "healthy", at least not in the sense that immediately comes to mind. but taking pride in one's work and making sure it's of high quality IS a healthy attitude, no matter what kind of work you do.

Public (v. 25)

i'm not sure why public is the quality attributed to this verse. it actually says "Strength and honor areher clothing;
She shall rejoice in time to come."

I'm not skilled at planning.
I'm not a financial wizard
I'm not athletically inclined
I have health issues that can't be healed naturally
I'm introverted

:online2long:


Can any woman possibly be this super-woman described here?


P.S. When does she have time to relax, pamper herself, play with the children, play with her husband?


ahhhh.... that happens after the kids are grown and gone, i'm afraid!

#17
enoob57

enoob57

    Royal Member

  • Soapbox - Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,167 posts

I don't mind these parts


A. Her Assets:

She is trustworthy (v. 11)
She is a positive influence (v. 12)
She is a hard worker (v. 13, 14, 19, 24-27)

She is protective (v. 27)

B. Her Achievements
She meets the needs of her home (v. 15)

She helps her husband become successful. (v. 23)

C. Her Attitudes
Delightful (v. 13)

Compassionate (v. 20)
Unselfish (v. 20)

D. Her Applause
From her family (v. 28)
From her husband (v. 28, 29)
From God's Word (v. 30)
From her works (v. 31)



But I have a problem with these parts:

A. Her Assets:

She is a planner (v. 21, 22)

B. Her Achievements

She invests for her household (v. 16)
She keeps herself in shape (v. 17)

C. Her Attitudes

Healthy (v. 18)

Public (v. 25)


I'm not skilled at planning.
I'm not a financial wizard
I'm not athletically inclined
I have health issues that can't be healed naturally
I'm introverted

:online2long:


Can any woman possibly be this super-woman described here?


P.S. When does she have time to relax, pamper herself, play with the children, play with her husband?

Yeah but strangely enough we love ya :)

#18
OneLight

OneLight

    Royal Member

  • Servant
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 26,428 posts
May I highly suggest that we review Proverbs according to the culture of the time. Much has changed since then. To me, a virtuous woman is one whose heart is after Gods heart and is fully open to His will in her life. The same could be said about a man,

Now, how did this go from a woman of influence, as the title stated, to a virtuous one?

#19
GoldenEagle

GoldenEagle

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,434 posts

But I have a problem with these parts:

A. Her Assets:

She is a planner (v. 21, 22)

B. Her Achievements

She invests for her household (v. 16)
She keeps herself in shape (v. 17)

C. Her Attitudes

Healthy (v. 18)

Public (v. 25)


I'm not skilled at planning.
I'm not a financial wizard
I'm not athletically inclined
I have health issues that can't be healed naturally
I'm introverted

:online2long:


Can any woman possibly be this super-woman described here?


P.S. When does she have time to relax, pamper herself, play with the children, play with her husband?


I shared my OP with my wife. She said something similar Nebula. The Proverbs 31 woman perhaps is a role model instead what every woman truly is? More of an aspiration... Funny thing is she said the woman was a super-woman as well... I didn't mean to offend anyone. ;)

God bless,
GE

#20
OldShep

OldShep

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,643 posts

May I highly suggest that we review Proverbs according to the culture of the time. Much has changed since then. To me, a virtuous woman is one whose heart is after Gods heart and is fully open to His will in her life. The same could be said about a man,

Now, how did this go from a woman of influence, as the title stated, to a virtuous one?


Think that you have hit the nail on the head with your idea of looking at the culture of the time.

As one who has lived in a family of hard working men and women, I have seen a decline in the over all health, strength, and willingness to for go self for the family, over the years. Not many women or men raise before dawn to work taking care of farm animals, milking cow, feeding live stock, ect.ect.. before taking care of themselves. There is a lot to the old saying " Early to bed early to raise makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise." The daily bible reading and the thanking of God for what we have, has, been replace by the microwave oven and instance pudding..Running a family is a team effort by all in the family..some good with planning and money and some good with planning, designing and building..supporting each others not ripping them down.

Today many people want what they want now and do not really want to work for it...

As for myself, I have slowed down over the past couple of years and I do believe rigamortis is starting to set in, for this stone has indeed collected some moss. Lately, I have been questioning the amount of time spent in front of this machine, it is useful, yet also seem to be a source of something other then what is healthy for the soul at times...

Dennis




Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Message Boards - 1999-2014 part of the Worthy Network