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Massorite

Do we really go to heaven just as soon as we die?

68 posts in this topic

Well you know its kinda funny or weird when you go to a funeral home some preacher, preach the person went to

heaven and we are gonna meet them someday.

Then.... you go to the grave yard then they preach about them gonna get resurrected.

are they dead or alive ?

Jesus came to do something different then what the OT offered.

He came to give us victory over death and the grave now, not later.

The OT saints, all they ever got was a promise of a resurrection from the dead.

Jesus made a better way.

Question = what is the dead in Christ ?

are you dead or are you alive ?

Read Romans 6 - how many ways are we dead

is there anything showing dead in the grave for us ?

Still no scripture to back your statements up? You should remember that a Christian in right standing with God ALWAYS researches scripture to make sure that he/she is correct. As for me? I do heavy research in every scripture I quote and everything I say about the word of God.

You said, " what is the dead in Christ ?" and the answer is 1 Th. 4:16

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first."

Read this verse carefully and you will see that it says nothing about going to heaven before Christ come to get us but it does say that the dead in Christ shall rise first.

Christ is in us and we are in Christ. Hence when we die we are dieing while Christ is in us which make us DEAD IN CHRIST.

You asked," is there anything showing dead in the grave for us?"

Doesn't this verse "that the dead in Christ shall rise first"? Are we not rising from the grave at this point in time. If we are already in heaven how is it that we will raise.

Bother when we die we go to the grave justr as Jesus did and when he come back we will rise from that grave to meet him in the clouds/glory of God on the day he returns.

Got to go right now but I will be giving some more scripture us in the grave.

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Well you know its kinda funny or weird when you go to a funeral home some preacher, preach the person went to

heaven and we are gonna meet them someday.

Then.... you go to the grave yard then they preach about them gonna get resurrected.

are they dead or alive ?

Jesus came to do something different then what the OT offered.

He came to give us victory over death and the grave now, not later.

The OT saints, all they ever got was a promise of a resurrection from the dead.

Jesus made a better way.

Question = what is the dead in Christ ?

are you dead or are you alive ?

Read Romans 6 - how many ways are we dead

is there anything showing dead in the grave for us ?

Still no scripture to back your statements up? You should remember that a Christian in right standing with God ALWAYS researches scripture to make sure that he/she is correct. As for me? I do heavy research in every scripture I quote and everything I say about the word of God.

You said, " what is the dead in Christ ?" and the answer is 1 Th. 4:16

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first."

Read this verse carefully and you will see that it says nothing about going to heaven before Christ come to get us but it does say that the dead in Christ shall rise first.

Christ is in us and we are in Christ. Hence when we die we are dieing while Christ is in us which make us DEAD IN CHRIST.

You asked," is there anything showing dead in the grave for us?"

Doesn't this verse "that the dead in Christ shall rise first"? Are we not rising from the grave at this point in time. If we are already in heaven how is it that we will raise.

Bother when we die we go to the grave justr as Jesus did and when he come back we will rise from that grave to meet him in the clouds/glory of God on the day he returns.

Got to go right now but I will be giving some more scripture us in the grave.

Well you know its kinda funny or weird when you go to a funeral home some preacher, preach the person went to

heaven and we are gonna meet them someday.

Then.... you go to the grave yard then they preach about them gonna get resurrected.

are they dead or alive ?

Jesus came to do something different then what the OT offered.

He came to give us victory over death and the grave now, not later.

The OT saints, all they ever got was a promise of a resurrection from the dead.

Jesus made a better way.

Question = what is the dead in Christ ?

are you dead or are you alive ?

Read Romans 6 - how many ways are we dead

is there anything showing dead in the grave for us ?

Still no scripture to back your statements up? You should remember that a Christian in right standing with God ALWAYS researches scripture to make sure that he/she is correct. As for me? I do heavy research in every scripture I quote and everything I say about the word of God.

You said, " what is the dead in Christ ?" and the answer is 1 Th. 4:16

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first."

Read this verse carefully and you will see that it says nothing about going to heaven before Christ come to get us but it does say that the dead in Christ shall rise first.

Christ is in us and we are in Christ. Hence when we die we are dieing while Christ is in us which make us DEAD IN CHRIST.

You asked," is there anything showing dead in the grave for us?"

Doesn't this verse "that the dead in Christ shall rise first"? Are we not rising from the grave at this point in time. If we are already in heaven how is it that we will raise.

Bother when we die we go to the grave justr as Jesus did and when he come back we will rise from that grave to meet him in the clouds/glory of God on the day he returns.

Got to go right now but I will be giving some more scripture us in the grave.

The word "grave" is actually not in the NKJV but here is what Christ say about thoses who have died. "

(Mat 8:22)

He said to them,

"Make room, for the girl is not dead, but sleeping." And they ridiculed Him.

(Mat 22:31)

'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB' ? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." In this verse God doesn't say that I am the God of Abraham who is dead, He says I am the God of Abraham and also says that God is not the God of the dead. So is Abraham still alive in God? Yes.

(Mar 5:35)

When He came in, He said to them,

"Why make this commotion and weep? The child is not dead, but sleeping."

(Mar 9:26)

For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

(Mar 12:25)

But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the

burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB' ?

(Mar 12:26)

He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken."

(Luk 7:12)

So he who was dead sat up and began to speak. And He presented him to his mother.

(Luk 8:49)

Now all wept and mourned for her; but He said,

"Do not weep; she is not dead, but sleeping."

(Luk 8:52)

And they ridiculed Him, knowing that she was dead.

(Luk 16:31)

But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;

(Joh 5:21)

Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.

(Joh 5:25)

Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

(Joh 6:49)

This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever."

(Joh 6:58)Then Jesus said to them plainly,

"Lazarus is dead.

(Joh 11:14)

Jesus said,

"Take away the stone." Martha, the sister of him who was dead, said to Him, "Lord, by this time there is a stench, for he has been dead four days."

(Joh 11:39)

Then they took away the stone

from the place where the dead man was lying. And Jesus lifted up His eyes and said, "Father, I thank You that You have heard Me.

(Joh 11:41)

Then, six days before the Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus was who had been dead, whom He had raised from the dead.

(Joh 12:1)

Now a great many of the Jews knew that He was there; and they came, not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might also see Lazarus, whom He had raised from the dead.

(Joh 12:9)

Therefore the people, who were with Him when He called Lazarus out of his tomb and raised him from the dead, bore witness.

(Act 28:6)

and declared

to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.

Well this should do it. When we die we are only sleeping according to Christ and are not dead. If you don,t get after all of these scriptures then you never will get it.

You see brother I was not raised up in Christ by any denomination and there beliefs or disbeliefs. I get all of what I believe from scripture alone.

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I think Stephen went to heaven and has a new body.

Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

2Cor.5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

Show me some scripture that say "Steven went to heaven" We must remember that Jesus is our example and all that happened to him will happen to us which means that we will first decend into the lower reaches of the earth before we are raised from the grave. What did Jesus say to the thief on the cross? He said "this day you shall be with me in paradise" now we all know that Jesus first decended and since the thief went with Christ that very death which is the day of His death, the thief went with Christ into Paradise.

Desiring "to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: IS A LONG WAYS FROM BEING CLOTHED WITH OUR HEAVENLY CLOTHING.

Well read this again

What did Stephen see before being stoned ? - Jesus

Was this not Jesus coming for him ? - sure

Stephen was a educated man in the Gospel and asked Jesus to come and get him he knew his body was going to die.

So the flesh died and Stephen moved out a live spirit and went to heaven and not to be naked he got an heavenly body.

Why would you want to raise a dead body when you are already alive in heaven ?

God has to speak a body back into existence so that ____________________________ ? what purpose ?

If the body is going to be raised from the grave and then changed into a heavenly body anyway,

why come back down here and be dead again and be resurrected from out of the ground, just get it while you are already up there. :hmmm:

You said "Was this not Jesus coming for him ? - sure" and this statement is wrong. In the scriptures you are talking about Jesus isn't coming or going. The scripture says that Jesus "IS STANDING AT THE THRONE OF GOD". "Standing" is not a motion word.

Again you said "Stephen was a educated man in the Gospel and asked Jesus to come and get him he knew his body was going to die". Where in the bible does it say that Jesus was asking Jesus for anything?

Holy Moly if there is anybody who adds to what scripture really says it is you. Stephen never asks Jesus to come and get him at anytime. Nor does the bible ever say that Jesus came to get Stephen at any time. In fact nothing is spoken at all about where Stephen went after he died. Where are you getting this stuff?

You asked a great question which gives doubt to this going to heaven the moment we die "Why would you want to raise a dead body when you are already alive in heaven?"

No one including God would need to raise a dead body if that person was already living in heaven. But if one is still in the grave and not in heaven then God would need to speak that person out of the grave. Which God will do on the day of resurrection of the dead in Christ. Because no one is already in heaven. :clap: :clap: :clap:

"Soul sleep," which Massorite seems to be advocating, is a tenet of the Jehovah's Witnesses, and definitely has no basis in scripture.

Massorite, are you advocating "Soul sleep"? What is your view on the Jehovah's Witnesses?

God bless,

GE

There are several denominations like Jahovahs Witnesses, Church of Christ, the Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists and more that did not exist before this country was settled. We came here in the first place to escape religeous persecution. But what happened in our effort/zeal to become free of persecution these new denominations picked small sections out of the word of God and made a whole denomination out it, complete with a whole set of false doctrinal beliefs. The result is that most of thier religeous beliefs are not according to the word of God but bits and pieces are. So with that in mind I am saying that I do believe in a "Soul Sleep" but not because of what the Jahovahs Witnesses believe, but because Jesus himself called death a state of sleep.

Just because these off the wall denominations believe a particular doctrine doesn't mean that it is all wrong according to scripture. Because some of thier beliefs are acoding to scripture.

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If I am repeating what someone else already posted, my apologies.

I do note that some here have already posted absent from the body present with the Lord (who is a resurrected man [albeit God incarnate] in heaven seated on the throne of his Father). No other human beings have been bodily raised yet. Many have been resuscitated to life (raised from the dead but not perfected in their eternal bodies yet).

Romans 8:23 (NIV)

23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

We will be bodily raised from the graves and perfected at the last trump. The dead in Christ who rise first (and have yet to do so) among them are the Old Testament saints whose spirits went to Abraham's Bosom before the cross and were the captivity he took captive the same day Jesus died on the cross.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (NIV)

8 This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men.”

9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?

10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

All were disembodied spirits (even the Lord Jesus at that point for he resurrected from the dead in bodily form three days later).

Jesus told the thief on the cross he would be with him this day in paradise (Luke 23:43) which is not another way of saying Abraham's Bosom. Paradise appears only three times in scripture and all three refer to the dwelling of God. So Jesus gave up the ghost @ 3PM 14 Nisan 30 CE and descended into hades / hell in the side of the promise (Abraham's Bosom) preached (proclaimed the victory) to all in the depths (1 Peter 3:18-20) and took the Old Testament saints spirits to heaven with him all within the same 3 hour period before the date ended on the Hebrew calendar. Not bodily. Spiritually. His body remained in the tomb three days and three nights as the scriptures teach (Matthew 12:39-40 note he said Son of man meaning his body).

The ascent Jesus referred to in John 20:17 was of his bodily resurrection which took place not 40 days later but on the day after the Shabbat (in keeping with the Law Leviticus 23:158) which is also why he told Mary not to touch him as he was to present himself as the ultimate sheaf offering before the Father and Mary perhaps had her monthly flow (other women had grasped his feet to worship and nothing was said about them not touching him).

Colossians 1:17-18 (NIV)

17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

To date, he is the only one resurrected.

1 John 3:2 (NIV)

2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 clearly teaches disembodied Christians in heaven the moment they (we) die.

Will we be bodily in heaven some day?

Depends on when the present heaven and present earth are replaced by the new heaven-earth.

.

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If I am repeating what someone else already posted, my apologies.

I do note that some here have already posted absent from the body present with the Lord (who is a resurrected man [albeit God incarnate] in heaven seated on the throne of his Father). No other human beings have been bodily raised yet. Many have been resuscitated to life (raised from the dead but not perfected in their eternal bodies yet).

Romans 8:23 (NIV)

23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

We will be bodily raised from the graves and perfected at the last trump. The dead in Christ who rise first (and have yet to do so) among them are the Old Testament saints whose spirits went to Abraham's Bosom before the cross and were the captivity he took captive the same day Jesus died on the cross.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (NIV)

8 This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men.”

9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?

10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

All were disembodied spirits (even the Lord Jesus at that point for he resurrected from the dead in bodily form three days later).

Jesus told the thief on the cross he would be with him this day in paradise (Luke 23:43) which is not another way of saying Abraham's Bosom. Paradise appears only three times in scripture and all three refer to the dwelling of God. So Jesus gave up the ghost @ 3PM 14 Nisan 30 CE and descended into hades / hell in the side of the promise (Abraham's Bosom) preached (proclaimed the victory) to all in the depths (1 Peter 3:18-20) and took the Old Testament saints spirits to heaven with him all within the same 3 hour period before the date ended on the Hebrew calendar. Not bodily. Spiritually. His body remained in the tomb three days and three nights as the scriptures teach (Matthew 12:39-40 note he said Son of man meaning his body).

The ascent Jesus referred to in John 20:17 was of his bodily resurrection which took place not 40 days later but on the day after the Shabbat (in keeping with the Law Leviticus 23:158) which is also why he told Mary not to touch him as he was to present himself as the ultimate sheaf offering before the Father and Mary perhaps had her monthly flow (other women had grasped his feet to worship and nothing was said about them not touching him).

Colossians 1:17-18 (NIV)

17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

To date, he is the only one resurrected.

1 John 3:2 (NIV)

2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 clearly teaches disembodied Christians in heaven the moment they (we) die.

Will we be bodily in heaven some day?

Depends on when the present heaven and present earth are replaced by the new heaven-earth.

.

8 "This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men.” Sorry but this is a really bad translation. In fact it is so bad that the true meaning of this verse has been completely changed from its original context. Niether the word "captives or the word train" are found, do not exist and can not be found in any of my researsch books when researching this verse. You need to throw the bible you got that verse out of away or better yet you should burn it. Because it is tainted and a long ways from being a rightly divided word from the word of God.

No insult intended. Just good advice. Actually all NIV's should be burnt because they have revised the word to the point distruction. Think about it. You have to buy a special Strongs Concordance that is specifically set up for the NIV because the translation can not be used with thge original Strongs because so many words and verses have been changed.

Therefore He says: "WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE, AND GAVE GIFTS TO MEN." This is the correct translation.

As for 2 Cor. 5:6-8 I can not see at all how you get what you are getting out of this verse. If you preach "to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." it is a completely false and misleading teaching because you have quoted only half of the verse. But if you quote the whole verse it simply says that "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." This verse says nothing at all about going to heaven at the moment of death

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Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not:

I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets,

and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

It looks like here that someone from the church has made it up to heaven and has a body already according to these scriptures.

I do not believe this is a natural created Angel, they are not called our brethren to us.

So yes when you died accepted of the Lord you go to heaven and get a heavenly body from heaven as mentioned in 2Cor.5:2.

I know some like to use 1Cor.15 and 1Thess.4 showing rising from the dead, but it does not say from the graveyard in the earth does it ?

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Romans 6 :3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Col.2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God,

who loved me, and gave himself for me.

The born again is a resurrection and we are not suppose to die, so when we become an overcomer and die in the flesh house, your soul cannot die so it

needs a body to move into. So in your last moment on eath the trump is blown for you to be recieved by the Lord Jesus.

I do see at the coming of the Lord to recieve the live and remain saints group, that their body will have to be changed also into a heavenly body.

I cannot see Jesus coming to earth also to recieve some dead body from the grave.

He is coming for the living.

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Time forbids me to expound on this, but I do not understand that at death one goes immediately to heaven or hell. I am not referring to purgatory either.

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Paul says he led captivity captive. Are we not also led captive of the Lord though we still be here?

Eph 4:1 ¶ I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

Paul is and yet is alive at the time of this writing. He continues on speaking about what it looks like to 'walk worthy' as well as 'how' to do so.

Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

Notice what word comes next:

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Wherefore? It is an explanation of what is about to be said that began with "I Paul, the prisoner of the Lord".

What then does he mean 'captivity captive'?

Rom 6:16-18 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

We were in bondage to sin just as all who ever were before Christ that perished, whom he descended to visit.

Jhn 8:31-36 ¶ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. Those who believe Jesus took those below above with him when he ascended do not have the witness of scripture in various places showing that that is what the text is presenting. Instead we find that the scriptures show different.

Act 2:29-35 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

At the time Peter said "For David is not ascended into the heavens", Jesus had long since been resurrected and bodily ascended into heaven itself.

So not only do we have the testimony of being freed from being a captive of Sin to become a captive of Christ by several witnesses, we also have the witness that David is not in heaven. But be of good cheer, we who have believed and followed after will through patience inherit the promise of partaking in the resurrection of the dead unto eternal life with Christ irregardless of where we are and what state of mind we have when we 'sleep in Jesus' as it is written will happen.

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Time forbids me to expound on this, but I do not understand that at death one goes immediately to heaven or hell. I am not referring to purgatory either.

Are you speaking of Sheol (Paradise/Place of suffering)?

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Hi AlexanderJ

I refer to hades the receptacle of departed spirits. While some passages appear to teach otherwise, when studied in the more complete sense I understand that that place remains inhibited and will continue until Jesus returns.

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"Hades" is the Greek word for the Hebrew term "Sheol".

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"Hades" is the Greek word for the Hebrew term "Sheol".

which means "the grave" and is "The place of Departed Souls" and there is no disguishment between Good souls or Bad souls. It is simply the place of departed souls.

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I once heard something from a preacher on T.V that made sense to me. He said that from the time we die until the time we are with Jesus in heaven, time ceases to exist and passes by in the blink of an eye. So even if it took a tousand years until Jesus returns, it would feel like we died and went straight to heaven instead of feeling like we're waiting for judgement day. All the others who aren't saved go through some kind of waiting period, I don't know if that place is Hades or something else.So it seems as though some kind of time leap occurs.

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it seems that nobody can give a stright answer on this....if i closed my eyes in death now what would i see on the other side

would i see Jesus or would i be in a state of status

what is on the other side and are we aware

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it seems that nobody can give a stright answer on this....if i closed my eyes in death now what would i see on the other side

would i see Jesus or would i be in a state of status

what is on the other side and are we aware

Redroses, in my view, when Christians pass from the body, they go to be with Jesus. There is no such thing as "soul sleep."

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Redroses, you asked if we are aware on the "other side."

Consider:

Philippians 1:21

For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain

Paul said for him to die is GAIN. Losing the awareness of the presence of Christ is not a GAIN, actually it's a loss. Some may say, that it's a temporary loss, doesn't matter, holding to the view that we sleep upon the death of the body translates into a loss.

Paul rejected this and said that to leave the body was a GAIN, not a loss.

When we depart the body, we go to be with Christ, that's what Paul said. It is far better and it is a gain.

Some people believe that when we die we are dead like a cow, that’s silly, that’s no gain. Other’s think that we just float around or are absorbed into the universe, that’s no gain either.

According to Paul to depart from the body is:

1.) FAR BETTER

2.) GAIN

3.)TO BE WITH CHRIST

The unscriptural doctrine of "Soul sleep" violates all of this. God has given us His Word to understand these things, let's go by what the Word says. To die in Christ is gain.

II Corinthians 5:8

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Scripture tells us to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Now, that’s better than better.

Philippians 1:22

But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

I shall choose…

This is kind of an amazing passage. Paul says, he hadn’t decided yet. Paul is the one making the choice. He didn't say, I’m leaving it in the hand of God. He said, “I don’t know what I shall choose”.

Paul didn’t say, “I’m just praying for God’s will to be done” or “I don’t know what God is going to choose for me”. He said, “I don’t know what I will choose”.

God gave the power of choice to Paul. He let Paul call the shot on this one.

Philippians 1:23

For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

Far better…

Paul is talking about dying, Notice, Paul did not say that when he dies that it would be better for him. He says it would be FAR better, way better, much more better, better than better.

What is meant by FAR BETTER? Well FAR BETTER means better than better.

If upon passing to the other side, Paul slept, then he would be unconscious of God's presence, due to his sleep. Yet, here while in the flesh, Paul said to live is Christ, and that He now is conscious of Christ's indwelling presence.

So, if Paul went to sleep, then he would have to go from an awareness of God's presence in this life to a lack of awareness due to sleep in the next.

That is not "better" much less "far better", or “better than better”. Losing the awareness of God's presence due to "soul sleep" is not "far better", actually, it's less better.

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