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Matthitjah

"Majority doesn't have the right to steal my money just becaus

72 posts in this topic

Perhaps it's time to take a break from this thread. Closed for review.

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Okay edited out attacks. This has been re-opened.

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God bless,

GE

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He really didn't point out anythiing of substance. You want us to discuss a topic that has nothing of value. What is his federal tax rate? This is the rate that should be of concern. His state tax rate is his own issue due to the state that he lives. He simply cannot combine two because there are states that have lower rates and states that have none. So the real question is what is his federal rate, and who is stealing his money?

Actually he did. He stated that the majority does not have the right to steal over half of his money just because they voted for it. He also stated that while living in Conneticut he would be taxed at a rate of over half of his income. He stated that Midevil serfs payed much less at a rate of like 26%.

The folks who voted for Obama very obviously agree that taxing the rich in a confiscatory way will solve all of our problems. They also obviously want their Obamaphones and believe that they deserve some of what they refuse to earn. Why is it Mr. Schiff's responsibility to pay for someone elses abortifacients? (As an example)

I'm unsure if you stopped reading my comment after I said he didn't say anything of substance. He combined both his state and federal tax situation and gave us a number. This is a devious tactic that politicians play, it is completely dishonest. My question is what is his state tax rate and what is his federal tax rate seperately? This they want thier Obamaphones rhetoric is pitiful. Are there moochiers on the system...yep. There are also subverters of the system too. Can you admit that. Do you believe that the subverters of the system do just as much damage as those who mooch? Also, my question still goes unanswered. Who is this "stolen" money going to? In what way is this money being redistributed?

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In case anyone missed this...

Actually, I was one of the folks who spoke out forcefully against the Stimulus package that Bush put together and Obama implemented. I believe I called it the most dangerous piece of legislation this Nation has ever seen.

Regardless, let's stay on topic. It's not about whether the R's or the D's do it. It's about whether or not the majority has the right to steal from Mr. Schiff just because they voted for it. Please keep the thread on topic.

Did you speak out agaisnt the Bush Stimulus packages in 02? Did you call taxes income redistribution or stealing during the 8 years of a Repub in the White House?

Mr Schiff is wrong because it is not stealing, it is called taxes.

Is my retirement and Justin's salary income redistribution?

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Perhaps distinguishing between military service (someone who is working/serving the country or has done so in the past) and someone who is simply munching off the economy (welfare without really contributing towards society) should come into the discussion. Now I’m not saying there aren’t some people with real disabilities out there. However, I do know quite a few that sometimes just seem to be gaming the situation and possibly could work.

Thoughts?

then the issue is not really about redistribution, it is about who we give it to.

Seems that in reality nobody cares about redistribution since that has been going on since day one of our country. It is about who is getting the money

No, it hasn't been an issue since the beginning of the Nation. That's not true at all.

In fact, the Mayflower compact quickly learned that this sort of thinking was failing and they turned towards a Capitalist viewpoint rather quickly.

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Once again, we are off topic.

The question remains.

Does the majority have the right to steal over half of Mr. Schiff's income and wealth simply because they voted for it?

My answer, "Of course they don't."

Please don't quote me the 16th Amendment because that was never the intent of it's implementation and those who state otherwise aren't being honest with themselves. It may be used by the Government to promote their argument for confiscatory taxation and unrighteous redistribution of wealth but it doesn't make it so.

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My comment here will be off topic. Is this how we are going to deal with threads now. Most of the questions have related to your topic. You surely don't think you can pose a question like that without what it is attempting to imply being addressed do you?

The question IMO holds no weight. How is being taxed stealing? Since he put it out there why not give us an actual break down? What portion of his salary goes out pretax? What portion is taxed? What portion of it goes to federal, what portion to state? To me the tactic Mr Schiff used is deceitful and part a game played by politicians.

I will also add, that if the government singled out Mr Schiff, took half of his money and gave it too some random poor person on the street his complaint would be valid. Until then I fail to see how his money is being stolen?

Would you care to answer some of the questions I posed earlier in the thread?

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Perhaps distinguishing between military service (someone who is working/serving the country or has done so in the past) and someone who is simply munching off the economy (welfare without really contributing towards society) should come into the discussion. Now I’m not saying there aren’t some people with real disabilities out there. However, I do know quite a few that sometimes just seem to be gaming the situation and possibly could work.

Thoughts?

then the issue is not really about redistribution, it is about who we give it to.

Seems that in reality nobody cares about redistribution since that has been going on since day one of our country. It is about who is getting the money

I think you have a good point. Most everyone I know doesn't mind helping people when they are down....... problem is who's just down and who's just quit trying..... and who is it that is telling us that the country's just gone welfare..... where do we go to find the truth?

If I knew that I'd take us there and we could end these kinds of long discussions.

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Is my retirement and Justin's salary income redistribution?

Preamble to the Constitution:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Tax money going to the salaries of those in the military is not redistribution.

The whole "redistribution" argument is the justification cry for increasing the tax of the wealthy to a very high percetage to assist in paying for Obamacare.

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Is my retirement and Justin's salary income redistribution?

Preamble to the Constitution:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Tax money going to the salaries of those in the military is not redistribution.

The whole "redistribution" argument is the justification cry for increasing the tax of the wealthy to a very high percetage to assist in paying for Obamacare.

what is the definition of redistribution? is it not taking from one group/person and giving it to another?

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redistribution_of_wealth#cite_note-1

Redistribution of wealth is the transfer of income, wealth or property from some individuals to others caused by a social mechanism such as taxation, monetary policies, welfare, charity, divorce or tort law.[1] The desirability and effects of redistribution are actively debated on ethical and economic grounds.

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Is my retirement and Justin's salary income redistribution?

Preamble to the Constitution:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Tax money going to the salaries of those in the military is not redistribution.

The whole "redistribution" argument is the justification cry for increasing the tax of the wealthy to a very high percetage to assist in paying for Obamacare.

I agree Neb. :thumbsup:

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My comment here will be off topic. Is this how we are going to deal with threads now. Most of the questions have related to your topic. You surely don't think you can pose a question like that without what it is attempting to imply being addressed do you?

The question IMO holds no weight. How is being taxed stealing? Since he put it out there why not give us an actual break down? What portion of his salary goes out pretax? What portion is taxed? What portion of it goes to federal, what portion to state? To me the tactic Mr Schiff used is deceitful and part a game played by politicians.

I will also add, that if the government singled out Mr Schiff, took half of his money and gave it too some random poor person on the street his complaint would be valid. Until then I fail to see how his money is being stolen?

Would you care to answer some of the questions I posed earlier in the thread?

Nope, I wouldn't care to answer them because they are rabbit trails designed to lead the topic off discussion because they might paint this adminsitration and this President in an unfavorable light, IMO.

Is it okay to take by force of Government the bulk of a mans income and wealth? Is this a righteous thing to do?

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Back to the OP.

the basic premise of Mr Schiff is wrong because it is not stealing, it is called taxes. To calling it stealing is just inflammatory language and does not help the issue at all.

As for if the majority has the right, we would need to look at other things we allow the majority the right to dictate just because they voted for it.

If you can find examples of where we did things because the majority voted for it, then it would be ok in this case as well.

If you support the implementation of ballot initiative where the majority gets to vote on things becoming law, then you cannot with any consistency say that is ok and that taxes are not.

When does it cease to be a tax? I mean, at what point does it become punitive and confiscatory?

How much of your income are you willing to give up to establish others wants?

I would add; that if the majority decides that because they do not have a house that you have to pay for it is that something you are willing to defend at this time? How about a car? How about a cellphone? I think we could make justifications for all of these things in our society as essential. Hoewever, that would not necessarily make them so.

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Oh my........ this whole thread is kind of disturbing..

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Nope, I wouldn't care to answer them because they are rabbit trails designed to lead the topic off discussion because they might paint this adminsitration and this President in an unfavorable light, IMO.

Is it okay to take by force of Government the bulk of a mans income and wealth? Is this a righteous thing to do?

I couldn't care less what light the admin is painted it. But can the light not be fabricated. You have yet to answer how his money is getting stolen. He didn't even make it clear. Just because he feels like it is getting stolen doesnt make it true. He is paying taxes how is this stealing. Shoot I'm not rich and feel my taxes are too high especially state taxes. But I know they must be paid, because we are required to pay them. So once we can establish how he is being stolen from then I walk with you. But to say he is being stolen from is deceitful. To say he is being taxed to heavy would be a better term. But then how do we know. He is only getting a voice because he in the top income bracket.

Before Obama won the first time I worked with an older middle class white woman. Her husband was retired, but he still worked. They made a pretty good income, their taxes were taken out every pay check. both of them claimed 0 exemptions and held out for the highest tax rate. From what she said she still had to pay money every tax season, and she wondered why. Note that this was before the Obama Admin. They were not top 1% earners, but still paid out of the ying yang. Where is their voice. Why do they pay so much. Where was the outcry for them?

You stated lets not make this a D vs R issue yet you want to paint the admin in a bad light. The government itself is the problem. The way they spend our money is a problem. The government ask for more because they are reckless with what they have. Helping people that are down on their luck and even those that messed up and got down is not the problem. People may attempt to paint that as the problem but its not. The problem is our government does exactly what they want with our money. They give grants for seeing if cats can land on thier feet after being spun in an anti gravity chamber (totally made this up) but I don't see protests about stuff like that. We have a very reckless government, and until we actually are man and woman enough to admit that we will continue majoring on the minor. Redistribution in form of taxes has been with us for quite some time. Our government concern isn't giving money to the poor, its to keep those rich people who pay them off richer. Funny how we get upset about giving money to folks at home, but don't say much about money given abroad.

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Nope, I wouldn't care to answer them because they are rabbit trails designed to lead the topic off discussion because they might paint this adminsitration and this President in an unfavorable light, IMO.

Is it okay to take by force of Government the bulk of a mans income and wealth? Is this a righteous thing to do?

I couldn't care less what light the admin is painted it. But can the light not be fabricated. You have yet to answer how his money is getting stolen. He didn't even make it clear. Just because he feels like it is getting stolen doesnt make it true. He is paying taxes how is this stealing. Shoot I'm not rich and feel my taxes are too high especially state taxes. But I know they must be paid, because we are required to pay them. So once we can establish how he is being stolen from then I walk with you. But to say he is being stolen from is deceitful. To say he is being taxed to heavy would be a better term. But then how do we know. He is only getting a voice because he in the top income bracket.

Before Obama won the first time I worked with an older middle class white woman. Her husband was retired, but he still worked. They made a pretty good income, their taxes were taken out every pay check. both of them claimed 0 exemptions and held out for the highest tax rate. From what she said she still had to pay money every tax season, and she wondered why. Note that this was before the Obama Admin. They were not top 1% earners, but still paid out of the ying yang. Where is their voice. Why do they pay so much. Where was the outcry for them?

You stated lets not make this a D vs R issue yet you want to paint the admin in a bad light. The government itself is the problem. The way they spend our money is a problem. The government ask for more because they are reckless with what they have. Helping people that are down on their luck and even those that messed up and got down is not the problem. People may attempt to paint that as the problem but its not. The problem is our government does exactly what they want with our money. They give grants for seeing if cats can land on thier feet after being spun in an anti gravity chamber (totally made this up) but I don't see protests about stuff like that. We have a very reckless government, and until we actually are man and woman enough to admit that we will continue majoring on the minor. Redistribution in form of taxes has been with us for quite some time. Our government concern isn't giving money to the poor, its to keep those rich people who pay them off richer. Funny how we get upset about giving money to folks at home, but don't say much about money given abroad.

I don't need to paint them in any light, they live there and to freqeuntly deny this is either a direct result of ignoring the obvious or just an obfuscation.

It is theft when a group can vote to take your income to use for goodies that they believe will enrich their lives.

To deny that this election and the subsequent policies coming out of it's outcome are not redsitribution is silly. Obama went around playing Santa Claus and spreading class envy and warfare. The whole of his re-election bid was about what Mr. Schiff is stating. Obama promised to take from those dastardly rich, like Romeny, and give it to those who are supposedly in need.

The rhetoric is everyweher. For example; "The rich need to pay their fair share." Someone help me. What on earth does that mean exactly when the top 2% already pay the lions share of taxes in this Nation?

I think that Mr. Schiff would like you to know that confiscating over half his wealth and income isn't fair and for the life of me I can't see how it is either. In fact, I call it theft. Mr. Schiff if he is so inlcined can redistribute his own wealth according to the inclination of his heart and if he doesn't see fit to that is between he and God.

When did the Government become the arbitor of Righteousness? I'm not sure how we are going to be Saved by any of this. It serves to further divide us and that is the point.

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Nope, I wouldn't care to answer them because they are rabbit trails designed to lead the topic off discussion because they might paint this adminsitration and this President in an unfavorable light, IMO.

Is it okay to take by force of Government the bulk of a mans income and wealth? Is this a righteous thing to do?

I couldn't care less what light the admin is painted it. But can the light not be fabricated. You have yet to answer how his money is getting stolen. He didn't even make it clear. Just because he feels like it is getting stolen doesnt make it true. He is paying taxes how is this stealing. Shoot I'm not rich and feel my taxes are too high especially state taxes. But I know they must be paid, because we are required to pay them. So once we can establish how he is being stolen from then I walk with you. But to say he is being stolen from is deceitful. To say he is being taxed to heavy would be a better term. But then how do we know. He is only getting a voice because he in the top income bracket.

Before Obama won the first time I worked with an older middle class white woman. Her husband was retired, but he still worked. They made a pretty good income, their taxes were taken out every pay check. both of them claimed 0 exemptions and held out for the highest tax rate. From what she said she still had to pay money every tax season, and she wondered why. Note that this was before the Obama Admin. They were not top 1% earners, but still paid out of the ying yang. Where is their voice. Why do they pay so much. Where was the outcry for them?

You stated lets not make this a D vs R issue yet you want to paint the admin in a bad light. The government itself is the problem. The way they spend our money is a problem. The government ask for more because they are reckless with what they have. Helping people that are down on their luck and even those that messed up and got down is not the problem. People may attempt to paint that as the problem but its not. The problem is our government does exactly what they want with our money. They give grants for seeing if cats can land on thier feet after being spun in an anti gravity chamber (totally made this up) but I don't see protests about stuff like that. We have a very reckless government, and until we actually are man and woman enough to admit that we will continue majoring on the minor. Redistribution in form of taxes has been with us for quite some time. Our government concern isn't giving money to the poor, its to keep those rich people who pay them off richer. Funny how we get upset about giving money to folks at home, but don't say much about money given abroad.

I don't need to paint them in any light, they live there and to freqeuntly deny this is either a direct result of ignoring the obvious or just an obfuscation.

It is theft when a group can vote to take your income to use for goodies that they believe will enrich their lives.

To deny that this election and the subsequent policies coming out of it's outcome are not redsitribution is silly. Obama went around playing Santa Claus and spreading class envy and warfare. The whole of his re-election bid was about what Mr. Schiff is stating. Obama promised to take from those dastardly rich, like Romeny, and give it to those who are supposedly in need.

The rhetoric is everyweher. For example; "The rich need to pay their fair share." Someone help me. What on earth does that mean exactly when the top 2% already pay the lions share of taxes in this Nation?

I think that Mr. Schiff would like you to know that confiscating over half his wealth and income isn't fair and for the life of me I can't see how it is either. In fact, I call it theft. Mr. Schiff if he is so inlcined can redistribute his own wealth according to the inclination of his heart and if he doesn't see fit to that is between he and God.

When did the Government become the arbitor of Righteousness? I'm not sure how we are going to be Saved by any of this. It serves to further divide us and that is the point.

When does it cease to be a tax? I mean, at what point does it become punitive and confiscatory?

I guess that is up to the individual, but nothing says a tax cannot be punitive or confiscatory

How much of your income are you willing to give up establishing others wants?

I do not know where the taxation limit is for me, I know we are not there as I am paying less in taxes than any time in my adult life.

But my personal wants are not in play here, we live in a representative republic and as such we elect people to make those choices for us. We do not get to choose where our tax money goes. A great many people I know were upset about their tax dollars paying to invade Iraq.

I would add; that if the majority decides that because they do not have a house that you have to pay for it is that something you are willing to defend at this time? How about a car? How about a cellphone? I think we could make justifications for all of these things in our society as essential. Hoewever, that would not necessarily make them so.

I am not defending anything, I am telling you what is reality, it is the system we live in. I am willing to bet I could name a number of things you would be just fine with the majority voting for.

This is a problem because we do not have a party in our country that is a small party government, so both take our money and give it to other people when they are in power.

For 20 year plus conservatives have based their votes on social conservative issues and ignored the fiscal records of those they are voting for. What we have now is the result of that sort of voting.

I've heard you already and thanks for answering the question. I believe you don't have a problem with class warfare and redistribution of wealth (theft). Are you a proponent of socialism?

Edited by GoldenEagle
edited attacks and reworded...
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Oh my........ this whole thread is kind of disturbing..

In what way?

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You have yet to actually provide anything that would warrant a call of theft. Like I asked before, how much money is Mr Schiff being taxed federally and how much from state? He just played a politicians game, like how people will say that there is 78 percent unemployement because they are counting every person including the homeless that are not working. We can't base our numbers like that. This is not saying that anyone should pay half of their income to taxes. But we don't know what part of his income is and is not being taxed. While my last sentence is pure speculation, IMO he leaves much to be desired when he attempts to combine both his state and federal taxes together. How do you blame the Obama admin for state tax rates?

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I'm no longer editing posts. I'm simply hiding them if they are personal in nature. The entire post not just the attacks. Focus on the topic at hand please and not attacks on each other.

I'm reminded of the old saying... "If you can't say something nice about someone don't say anything at all."

Is it really not possible to have an adult discussion on this topic?

God bless,

GE

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Lets pretend for a moment that the OP was correct...what can or should we do about it?

In our system of Government, what is the solution to stopping the theft?

Thank you. This is more like it. :thumbsup:

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Closing my own thread.

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