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New revelations????

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#1
firestormx

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After reading some posts on another thread about this subject, I decided to look into this a little further. I've never thought much about this subject. I've always just assumed that when I had a question or wanted to learn something, I could just read and study the word of God and pray.

When I think of someone saying they have a new revelation from God, or new knowledge from God, images of jim jones and david koresh run through my mind. But as I stuided about this and did some online research, I was equally horrifed by the other side of the coin. Let me explain.

While reading about No new revelations or no new knowledge, it seems people take this to the extreme as well. This is what I read about what some people believe, about no new revelations. Since there is no new revelations or knowledge, then there is no more prophecy. Because that would be new revelations. There is no dreams or visions because that also would be new revelation and new knowledge. God himself does not speak to us in a inner witness or small still voice, because that would be new revelations or knowledge. The bible is sufficent for all things. There is no reason for God to talk to us because it's all in his word. No new revelations or knowledge.

It seems as I've stuided I've come across the ditches on both sides of the road. I am in the process of seeking the Lord on this to illuminate his truth. That I might understand and speak his truth for his glory.


1. What is your understanding of No New Revelations or No New Knowledge?
2. How does this affect things like dreams and visions and the gift of prophecy?
3. The apostles were the foundation, christ the cornerstone. But if there is No new revelations, how do the walls and roof get built?


Thank you all and may God Bless you
Firestormx
Joseph

#2
allofgrace

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No new prophesy or new revelations. What you describe about learning about new knowledge from God is new illumination from the Holy Spirit directing believers to how to apply the word of God in their lives. If it were new revelation there would be no way to check its accuracy and to verify that it is from God. We are encouraged to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The word is the lamp unto our feet and the light unto our path. No one has gained all the wisdom from scripture, why would we need more?

#3
firestormx

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Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

The emphasis of the early Church was on the Apostles' doctrine (teaching) and it wasn't on gifts as Acts 2:42 points out. People argue that the Canon wasn’t completed by then so there is no reason to believe the Bible but they had Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Paul and they listened to the Apostles’ doctrine which is the Word of God and they were eyewitnesses to what Jesus directly said and did.


First thanks for the post. I agree with everything you said. However, paul said Christ was the cornerstone. That the apostles and there doctrine was the foundation. That we are to be very careful what we build onto it. If there is no new revelations, what do we build with? The word is the doctrine spoken of, it is the foundation. Christ is the cornerstone. What is the walls and roof?

#4
Jayyycuuup

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1. My understanding is limited to your description; this is the first I have heard of this to be honest. And prayerfully, you will find peace in this because whomever or whoever lead you to this is very lost and not biblically sound as the bible indicates that we are talked to by God, given understanding by God and lead by Him. Take this verse as just one example John 16:13 "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come." If we don't come to know the still small voice, or can praise Him for the miracles He bestows upon us and those around us then how could we ever come to know Him? Faith is not a measure of wishful thinking or hope, but it is by grace, satisfaction, trust, experience and confidence and much more !! Our God is faithful and wants a relationship with each one of us ! If we did not come to know the Spirit of truth and to be guided by the Lord then how could we come to ultimately understand and truly interpret scripture? The doctrine that is lead by the spirit is not adding to or taking away from scripture because it is it ! It is like looking up a word and seeing all the definitions, how it is used and so forth. They all revert back to the same source, the Head i.e. God. Through the spirit we come to understanding and can learn from the bible both in prophecy and in today's terms, weather it be in correction or about Gods love. The bible goes as far as the heart is willing, the more heart, time and spirit you put forth the more understanding is given. That is why there is sooo very much to learn about the bible !!!

#5
firestormx

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No new prophesy or new revelations. What you describe about learning about new knowledge from God is new illumination from the Holy Spirit directing believers to how to apply the word of God in their lives. If it were new revelation there would be no way to check its accuracy and to verify that it is from God. We are encouraged to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The word is the lamp unto our feet and the light unto our path. No one has gained all the wisdom from scripture, why would we need more?


Thanks for the post. But the bible never says the gift of prophecy has ceased. If there are no new revelations, then there can be no dreams or visions either? Joel said in the last days God would pour out his spirit and young men would dream dreams and old men would have visions. How can this be, if there is no new revelations? Is this also an act of illumination and not revelation? Wouldn't the end of all new revelations mean the end of all Prophets and Apostles? If Apostles and Prophets are no more, then we have to get rid of pastors, teachers and evangilists as well. because they are a 5 fold minstry. they work together.

#6
nebula

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What Scripture is used to justify the claim that there are no new revelations and no new knowledge?

#7
firestormx

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1. My understanding is limited to your description; this is the first I have heard of this to be honest. And prayerfully, you will find peace in this because whomever or whoever lead you to this is very lost and not biblically sound as the bible indicates that we are talked to by God, given understanding by God and lead by Him. Take this verse as just one example John 16:13 "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come." If we don't come to know the still small voice, or can praise Him for the miracles He bestows upon us and those around us then how could we ever come to know Him? Faith is not a measure of wishful thinking or hope, but it is by grace, satisfaction, trust, experience and confidence and much more !! Our God is faithful and wants a relationship with each one of us ! If we did not come to know the Spirit of truth and to be guided by the Lord then how could we come to ultimately understand and truly interpret scripture? The doctrine that is lead by the spirit is not adding to or taking away from scripture because it is it ! It is like looking up a word and seeing all the definitions, how it is used and so forth. They all revert back to the same source, the Head i.e. God. Through the spirit we come to understanding and can learn from the bible both in prophecy and in today's terms, weather it be in correction or about Gods love. The bible goes as far as the heart is willing, the more heart, time and spirit you put forth the more understanding is given. That is why there is sooo very much to learn about the bible !!!


First, thanks for your post. I found it very comforting as I have been almost in constant tears over this for 2 days. The thought that someone in there heart believes that God can't talk to them is heartbreaking. I had began to feel like I was all alone on an island by myself. Hence why I posted this thread, and reached out to my brothers and sisters in Christ.

I will try to post the links to some of the pages I went to below. It's quite a bit of reading but will help you understand why I'm so disheartened about this.

http://www.bible-tea...revelation.html



Read this one first
http://www.tms.edu/tmsj/tmsj14h.pdf

#8
firestormx

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What Scripture is used to justify the claim that there are no new revelations and no new knowledge?


Thanks for the post. The one in revelations about not adding to or taking away from the bible. Actually it says from this book in revelation but people apply it to the whole bible.

#9
nebula

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Thanks for the post. The one in revelations about not adding to or taking away from the bible. Actually it says from this book in revelation but people apply it to the whole bible.


It is a theme that runs through the whole Bible.


Please explain.

#10
firestormx

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Thanks for the post. The one in revelations about not adding to or taking away from the bible. Actually it says from this book in revelation but people apply it to the whole bible.


It is a theme that runs through the whole Bible.


Please explain.


Revelation 22:18-19
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Some people believe that this applies to the whole bible and not just the book of revelation. Since you can't add to or subtract from, then the entire canon is complete. There will be no more revelations because God's message to us is complete. That is my basic understanding.

#11
Jayyycuuup

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1. My understanding is limited to your description; this is the first I have heard of this to be honest. And prayerfully, you will find peace in this because whomever or whoever lead you to this is very lost and not biblically sound as the bible indicates that we are talked to by God, given understanding by God and lead by Him. Take this verse as just one example John 16:13 "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come." If we don't come to know the still small voice, or can praise Him for the miracles He bestows upon us and those around us then how could we ever come to know Him? Faith is not a measure of wishful thinking or hope, but it is by grace, satisfaction, trust, experience and confidence and much more !! Our God is faithful and wants a relationship with each one of us ! If we did not come to know the Spirit of truth and to be guided by the Lord then how could we come to ultimately understand and truly interpret scripture? The doctrine that is lead by the spirit is not adding to or taking away from scripture because it is it ! It is like looking up a word and seeing all the definitions, how it is used and so forth. They all revert back to the same source, the Head i.e. God. Through the spirit we come to understanding and can learn from the bible both in prophecy and in today's terms, weather it be in correction or about Gods love. The bible goes as far as the heart is willing, the more heart, time and spirit you put forth the more understanding is given. That is why there is sooo very much to learn about the bible !!!


First, thanks for your post. I found it very comforting as I have been almost in constant tears over this for 2 days. The thought that someone in there heart believes that God can't talk to them is heartbreaking. I had began to feel like I was all alone on an island by myself. Hence why I posted this thread, and reached out to my brothers and sisters in Christ.

I will try to post the links to some of the pages I went to below. It's quite a bit of reading but will help you understand why I'm so disheartened about this.

http://www.bible-tea...revelation.html



Read this one first
http://www.tms.edu/tmsj/tmsj14h.pdf


I'm gonna be honest here and tell you outright, just after the first 2 minutes or so of reading I stopped, closed down the links and shook my head in displeasure and in discomfort. He is using a verse in context for the first bit but then he himself was adding to what the meaning behind it is. Revelation 22:18 is inferring all of us about not to ADD to the prophecies of this book, there is a very big difference between adding to and to the understanding of the prophecies of this book! "The entrance of His words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple." (Psalm 119:130) Then take this to the account in Acts 8 around verse 27; Phillip and a eunuch. The eunuch was reading Isaiah the prophet, but did not understand. The spirit said to Phillip, Go near and overtake the chariot. So Phillip ran to him and hear Him reading the prophet Isaiah and said, do you understand what you are reading? And he said, How can I unless someone guides me." Now lets stop right there, to me this has so much meaning behind it. Just in this case, how can we understand the scripture God has breathed out unless we are guided. How can we learn if we have no teacher!? Then, we look at proverbs 3:5 where God commands us not to lean on our own understanding, but to trust in the Lord with all our hearts. Where can the inspiration and understand come from if it is not from us? Could it be the Maker? The creator of all things, the author of the bible, the inspiration and the Father and caregiver of our lives? Ding, ding, ding!!! It is He, He who saved us, He who gives understanding freely to all whom seek it !! ~Amen, Amen~ 1 Timothy 3:16-17 "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work." What the man is saying goes against scripture as you can already see, and we have only skimmed across just a few verses !

Take heed that there are many stumbling blocks, and many out to indoctrinate their "seeds" as presented in Luke, Mathew, and Mark, a sower went out to sew ! But be of good cheer, take up the correction and the guidance of our Father and He will dry out these seeds and take these upon the cement to where they will bear no fruit nor root ! One thing I would recommend is to be careful what your looking into; today it is too easy to fall into a bind and thus being disheartened as you had claimed. Though it may be presented good, and fastened, there is always that lacking, and that lacking is the truth, the guidance of the Lord and thus leaning on our own understanding.
Be blessed and remember to test ALL things, will be in my prayers that the Lord will bless you with understanding to what troubles you ! In Jesus Name

#12
firestormx

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Then, we look at proverbs 3:5 where God commands us not to lean on our own understanding, but to trust in the Lord with all our hearts. Where can the inspiration and understand come from if it is not from us? Could it be the Maker? The creator of all things, the author of the bible, the inspiration and the Father and caregiver of our lives? Ding, ding, ding!!! It is He, He who saved us, He who gives understanding freely to all whom seek it !! ~Amen, Amen~


Now that made me laugh. Thanks. I just have never even thought about this subject. I have never stuided it. If someone was to come to me and ask me about this, I want to be able to tell them what God says. That is my reasoning for looking up all sides of the issue. thanks for your kind words and your prayers.

#13
Jayyycuuup

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Then, we look at proverbs 3:5 where God commands us not to lean on our own understanding, but to trust in the Lord with all our hearts. Where can the inspiration and understand come from if it is not from us? Could it be the Maker? The creator of all things, the author of the bible, the inspiration and the Father and caregiver of our lives? Ding, ding, ding!!! It is He, He who saved us, He who gives understanding freely to all whom seek it !! ~Amen, Amen~


Now that made me laugh. Thanks. I just have never even thought about this subject. I have never stuided it. If someone was to come to me and ask me about this, I want to be able to tell them what God says. That is my reasoning for looking up all sides of the issue. thanks for your kind words and your prayers.


Heh, better cherish that moment, laughs are rare when coming from me :D haha (thats a joke) *crickets* ahem ! Anywho :)

Very understandable, and I really hope that you do find what your looking for, there is so much still to learn ! Just be in confidence, read up, pray, and I am confident that the everlasting, faithful God will abide in you and lead you to the truth within time and before such a question is presented, and when it does, I am sure that He will give you the understanding you need ! We serve an almighty and graceful merciful King and ruler, blessed be His name. ~Amen, Amen~ No one can measure the depths of His understanding!!!! Lord open the eyes of your servant Joseph and lead Him in your truth and guide him in all He does, prepare Him with the depth of Your understanding and abide in Him in all he does, In Jesus name Amen

#14
allofgrace

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No new prophesy or new revelations. What you describe about learning about new knowledge from God is new illumination from the Holy Spirit directing believers to how to apply the word of God in their lives. If it were new revelation there would be no way to check its accuracy and to verify that it is from God. We are encouraged to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The word is the lamp unto our feet and the light unto our path. No one has gained all the wisdom from scripture, why would we need more?


Thanks for the post. But the bible never says the gift of prophecy has ceased. If there are no new revelations, then there can be no dreams or visions either? Joel said in the last days God would pour out his spirit and young men would dream dreams and old men would have visions. How can this be, if there is no new revelations? Is this also an act of illumination and not revelation? Wouldn't the end of all new revelations mean the end of all Prophets and Apostles? If Apostles and Prophets are no more, then we have to get rid of pastors, teachers and evangilists as well. because they are a 5 fold minstry. they work together.


Not really, pastors and teachers and evangelist are speaking forth the word of God, not giving new revelations. There are no Apostles of the Lord now. When they replaced Judas, what did they use as their guidelines for replacing him. The person had to have traveled with them during the time of the Lord(Acts 1:21-22 “Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”) and besides that it was prophesied in the OT that it would happen Ps 109:8 which is stated in Acts 1:20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms: ‘Let his dwelling place be desolate. And let no one live in it". And the 5 fold ministry you speak of in Eph 4:11-16 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. From v12-16 it shows what their duties were to be and why, to build up the body of Christ that they not be tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine from dishonest sources. If there are new revelations not already in scripture, tell me how one verifies it to be true. I know of no place in scripture that says we are to study to show ourselves approved except by studying the word of God, I would like to see it if I missed it.

And someone ask where it says there are no new revelation after the Apostles, I simply ask where does it say there will be? We do have many places where it says that it is the word of God that transforms the mind. Peter echos the same about the word of God in 1Pet1:25 But the word of the Lord endures forever.” Let each be persuaded in their own mind.

Edited by allofgrace, 11 December 2012 - 01:18 AM.


#15
FresnoJoe

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Thanks for the post. The one in revelations about not adding to or taking away from the bible. Actually it says from this book in revelation but people apply it to the whole bible.

It is a theme that runs through the whole Bible.


Amen~!

~

The Whole


And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. Joel 2:28-29

Bible

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: Acts 2:16-18

Hum...

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Deuteronomy 4:2

What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it. Deuteronomy 12:32

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6

#16
firestormx

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the 5 fold ministry you speak of in Eph 4:11-16 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. From v12-16 it shows what their duties were to be and why, to build up the body of Christ that they not be tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine from dishonest sources. If there are new revelations not already in scripture, tell me how one verifies it to be true. I know of no place in scripture that says we are to study to show ourselves approved except by studying the word of God, I would like to see it if I missed it.


I ask simply where does it say in the bible apostles have ceased? Also I bolded apart of your comment above. It was part of the bible. It states very clearly that the 5 fold ministry was for. one of them was " Till we come unto the untity of the faith". Is every believer in complete unity? If not then the 5 fold ministry still exisits. Including apostles and prophets.

If the bible doesn't say they're won't be new revelation and also doesn't say they're will be new revelation, then isn't it wrong to tell someone it can't happen and if it does it's the devil, because God doesn't do that anymore? Wouldn't that be wrong to say, because God didn't say either way.

#17
firestormx

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"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.”-Deuteronomy 4:2

“What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.”-Deuteronomy 12:32


Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”-Proverbs 30:6

“Thus saith the Lord; Stand in the court of the Lord’s house, and speak unto all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the Lord’s house, all the words that I command thee to speak unto them; diminish not a word:”-Jeremiah 26:2

“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:”-Revelation 22:18

I keep seeing these verses posted. I got some questions about them. Aren't these verses being taken out of context by those who say there is no new revelation? Let me explain. The first couple verses are in Deuteronomy. If all these verses mean that nothing can be added, and they were spoken and written by God in Deuteronomy, then how was all the books that come after it added? The book of 1 and 2 kings for example was added after God said in Deuteronomy not to add anything. If nothing was to be added, then where did the other books come from? Were they not added after God said not too? If you say "God can add when he see fit" then I ask the question, then why can't he do that now?

Also, 2nd question. I bolded a certain phrase in all the above verses. My question is, In every one of the verses provided so far, they all say that WE are not to add to the word. I haven't read a single verse yet where God said he wouldn't add new revelation. If they apply to both God and man, and we know God can't sin or break his word, How was the other books added after Deuteronomy.

#18
shiloh357

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People today confuse revelation with illumination. There is no new "revelation," meaning that there is no new information about God being revealed that has not been previously revealed in the Word of God.

God is revealing more about Himself in deeper ways through His word and the power of the Holy Spirit, but that is not "revelation." That is illumination.

If there is new revelation about God that has not been previously revealed through His word, how would we be able to test such "revelation" to make sure it lines up with Scripture??? If God reveals something about Himself and we can find it corroborated with the Bible it is not "revelation."

#19
firestormx

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There is no new "revelation," meaning that there is no new information about God being revealed that has not been previously revealed in the Word of God.



Can you please show this in scripture

#20
shiloh357

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There is no new "revelation," meaning that there is no new information about God being revealed that has not been previously revealed in the Word of God.



Can you please show this in scripture


How could I show that in Scripture??? New revelation is revelation not contained in Scripture. How can I show revelation not contained in Scripture from Scripture?

The Bible has a back a cover. God's "revelation" of Himself is Jesus Christ. Hebrews 1 tells us that everything God has to say to man is found the Person and Ministry of Jesus Christ. Jesus is God's final Word to mankind.




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