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Tinky

Limited Atonement

56 posts in this topic

Golden Eagle:

omniscient, It's not in the Word, and I respect you brother. If you would like to discuss this privately then that is fine.

shiloh357

So God demonstrates many times in Scripture that He knows the future and He knows the eternal past.

You make God out to be some sort of medium who tells the future. The Scripture did not say he knows the future, your making that up. Lets stick with the Word.

The scripture list everything God knows. Golden Eagle posted a few of them.

It's not God knowing, the outcome of a man. It's not God knowing Adam would sin, or he would have to destroy man with the flood. You have no scripture for that.

It's God declaring that which was, which is and that which is to come. It's not fortune telling, it's God setting his eternal Word in Motion. You do know the difference between speaking something and knowing something, right?

I'll tell you what God knows. He knows the thoughts he thinks toward you. Thoughts of good, and not thoughts of evil. He can't speak your doom, because he does not have those thoughts.

Lam 3:32 But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.

Lam 3:33 For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.

Does he know and plan ahead the man that will go wrong? You believe he does, and therefore you believe he has thoughts against his own will. You think having to judge people that have not followed him is his will, that he plans and knows? That he delights ahead of time suffering caused by turning our backs on him? Did he not say he takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked? yet you believe he foreknew from the time he made the spirit of man that their death would give him no pleasure?

Amazing the God you know.

God has always responded to man by mans actions, he has repented to change his mind to have mercy, and has changed his mind to bring judgement.

In that does man change the World being destroyed? Nope, for it being destroyed is not something God used some fortune telling powers to discern, he declared it, and the Word can not fail.

Jesus Is Lord.

To hear you tell it, God has sure made a lot of good guesses. Your answers are actually too foolish to answer, you must be stirring the water. He told the ending from the beginning that is the God the believer knows.

Edited by allofgrace
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Jumping in here not haven't read all the replies.

I first heart of this from a member of my SS Class. We have the will of 'God written down for us, God is not willing that any should perish' and 'For God so loved the world that he gave his So...'. Loved world ..........that he gave his Son.

I think this is a erroneous Calvinistic doctrine.

There are three "elect", the elect Angels, elect Israel, and the elect saints who are us Christians.

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You make God out to be some sort of medium who tells the future. The Scripture did not say he knows the future, your making that up. Lets stick with the Word.

The Scripture is very clear that God knows the future. 1/3 of the Bible is prophecy and it is prophecy of the future. Peter wrote that the prophets spoke as they were given utterance by the Holy Spirit. So yes, God does know the future. To say that God doesn't know the future is false teaching.

The scripture list everything God knows.

The Scripture doesn't tell us EVERYTHING God knows. God is not limited to what the Bible tells us He knows. Maybe your god doesn't know everything, but I serve the God of the Bible who does know everything and this is born out in Scripture. You are a false teacher and your theology borders on heresy. Your views should be rejected by all authentic followers of Christ.

It's not God knowing, the outcome of a man. It's not God knowing Adam would sin, or he would have to destroy man with the flood. You have no scripture for that.

The grammatical structure of that sentence makes no sense. Are you saying that God did not know Adam would sin or that man would become corrupt?

It's God declaring that which was, which is and that which is to come. It's not fortune telling, it's God setting his eternal Word in Motion. You do know the difference between speaking something and knowing something, right?

God is omnscient. He knows all. To declare what is, what was, and what is to come is the textbook definition of omnscience. It's omniscience in action

I know the difference between speaking and knowing, but you have not proven that God doesn't know the future. Alll you have done is deny Scripture and promote false theology that does not reflect genuine Christdianity and denies the essential character of God. Again, true Christians will reject the stuff you are promoting here.

Does he know and plan ahead the man that will go wrong? You believe he does, and therefore you believe he has thoughts against his own will.

God knew that man would fall and that sin would separate man from Him. That is why Jesus was the Lamb considered slain from before the foundations of the earth were laid. The plan of redemption was already in place long before man even existed.

You think having to judge people that have not followed him is his will, that he plans and knows?

That he delights ahead of time suffering caused by turning our backs on him? Did he not say he takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked? yet you believe he foreknew from the time he made the spirit of man that their death would give him no pleasure?

I said no such thing. I never said that God takes pleasure in having to judge anyone or that he delights in people rejecting Him. I said that God knows who will reject Him, though. He takes no pleasure in their death or having to judge them, but whether you make room for it or not, God already knows who will or will not receive Him.

God has always responded to man by mans actions, he has repented to change his mind to have mercy, and has changed his mind to bring judgement.

In that does man change the World being destroyed? Nope, for it being destroyed is not something God used some fortune telling powers to discern, he declared it, and the Word can not fail.

Evidently, you don't seem to understand the difference omnicience and fortune tellling. God knows the future and declares it. The two are inseparable.

Jesus Is Lord.

Evidently, you don't know what being "Lord" means.

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Golden Eagle:

omniscient, It's not in the Word, and I respect you brother. If you would like to discuss this privately then that is fine.

shiloh357

So God demonstrates many times in Scripture that He knows the future and He knows the eternal past.

You make God out to be some sort of medium who tells the future. The Scripture did not say he knows the future, your making that up. Lets stick with the Word.

The scripture list everything God knows. Golden Eagle posted a few of them.

It's not God knowing, the outcome of a man. It's not God knowing Adam would sin, or he would have to destroy man with the flood. You have no scripture for that.

It's God declaring that which was, which is and that which is to come. It's not fortune telling, it's God setting his eternal Word in Motion. You do know the difference between speaking something and knowing something, right?

I'll tell you what God knows. He knows the thoughts he thinks toward you. Thoughts of good, and not thoughts of evil. He can't speak your doom, because he does not have those thoughts.

Lam 3:32 But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.

Lam 3:33 For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.

Does he know and plan ahead the man that will go wrong? You believe he does, and therefore you believe he has thoughts against his own will. You think having to judge people that have not followed him is his will, that he plans and knows? That he delights ahead of time suffering caused by turning our backs on him? Did he not say he takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked? yet you believe he foreknew from the time he made the spirit of man that their death would give him no pleasure?

Amazing the God you know.

God has always responded to man by mans actions, he has repented to change his mind to have mercy, and has changed his mind to bring judgement.

In that does man change the World being destroyed? Nope, for it being destroyed is not something God used some fortune telling powers to discern, he declared it, and the Word can not fail.

Jesus Is Lord.

The biggest flaw I see Brother is that your setting a limit upon the knowledge of God. God gives many promises to man: for instance Joseph (see here: ) was given a vision of the future, that He would be a leader. Can you really believe that this was by coincidence? Or could it be that the promises God gives us may take time, and a process at that but they remain! Just as Shiloh pointed out, the bible is full of prophecy, some of which has come to pass and others which are unfolding or are yet to be presented. No matter how you slice it, God knows all things. By thinking otherwise limits the knowledge of God and merely dictates that He is not as knowledgeable as one would think.

For one of the many examples, what when David in Psalms proclaims that the Lord knew his words before they were even presented upon His tongue! (Psalm 139:4 "For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, you know it altogether.")

And another, “Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 1 Corinthians 3:18,19. The understanding of this world is foolish to God. WOW! That just goes to show just how the depths of God's understanding are limitless, going beyond what our minds can even begin to understand.

And another, Hebrews 4:13 "Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do." ALL things are known unto God, we are laid out before Him like a book. He knows our thoughts, what we say before we think it, and what we do and are to do.

Something else to look at is when Christ said to Peter, you will deny me 3 times before the rooster crows. If God was not all knowing how could it be Jesus could foretell this? (Mark 26:34)

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Was Christ's atoning death only for the elect, or for all people?

Obviously, the blood of Jesus is sufficient for all people, but everyone knows that it doesn't benefit all people, lest nobody would die in their sins and go to hell. The only people it benefits are those who accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. As such, given the two choices you gave, the answer is the elect.

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"Many are called, but few are chosen."

The atonement is for all people, but only those who receive are covered by it.

"Many are called, but few are chosen."

The atonement is for all people, but only those who receive are covered by it.

I love brief answers.Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

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