Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

Magic

   15 votes

  1. 1. Is Magic evil?

    • Yes
      14
    • No
      0
    • It can be either good or evil.
      1
    • None of the above.
      0

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

62 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

Nowadays the theme in many books and movies is centered around "magic". I have a question which I believe to be very relevant to Christians today: Is magic or the theme of magic evil in of itself, or can it be used to glorify God or both?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Alex, when you read this, you might think I'm nitpicking. I'm not. I think you mean "magick". The occultists spell their 'craft' with a 'k' at the end. Magic (most properly) is the slight of hand that we see stage magicians do to awe audiences, and there isn't anything wrong with that.

Magick is occultism and that is what these movies you speak of are promoting. By their intentionally leaving the 'k' off the end of magick, those who are into such evil slip it past the unsuspecting. Magick is most definitely evil, doesn't glorify God and should be avoided by Believers.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

Alex, when you read this, you might think I'm nitpicking. I'm not. I think you mean "magick". The occultists spell their 'craft' with a 'k' at the end. Magic (most properly) is the slight of hand that we see stage magicians do to awe audiences, and there isn't anything wrong with that.

Magick is occultism and that is what these movies you speak of are promoting. By their intentionally leaving the 'k' off the end of magick, those who are into such evil slip it past the unsuspecting. Magick is most definitely evil, doesn't glorify God and should be avoided by Believers.

The Encyclopaedia Britannica says this about "magic":

magic, a concept used to describe a mode of rationality or way of thinking that looks to invisible forces to influence events, effect change in material conditions, or present the illusion of change. Within the Western tradition, this way of thinking is distinct from religious or scientific modes; however, such distinctions and even the definition of magic are subject to wide debate....

The magic to which I refer is "a concept used to describe a mode of rationality or way of thinking that looks to invisible forces to influence events, effect change in material conditions". This "magic" is found in the Harry Potter books and films, several of C.S. Lewis' books including the Chronicles of Narnia (several have been made into movies) and many other books and films. Are these representations of "magic" evil?

Is "magic" evil? - is the "concept of a mode of rationality or way of thinking that looks to invisible forces to influence events, effect change in material conditions" intrinsically evil?

The Oxford Dictionary of English defines "magic" as:

magic

noun

  • the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

According to this definition, the Christian God often works using "magic", as do many characters in the Bible and other Christian writings.

Edited by AlexanderJ
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Absolutely, using invisible forces to influence events is evil.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

Absolutely, using invisible forces to influence events is evil.

God and most believers use invisible forces to influence events every day! God is invisible (usually, at least to us - see 1 Timothy 1:17), and he influences the visible universe with invisible forces constantly and Christians pray every day, appealing to the invisible God to influence the universe using invisible and visible forces.

Edited by AlexanderJ
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Nowadays the theme in many books and movies is centered around "magic". I have a question which I believe to be very relevant to Christians today: Is magic or the theme of magic evil in of itself, or can it be used to glorify God or both?

Are you trying to say that Magic can be used for good AlexanderJ?

I think there is a difference between magic (or magick) and creativity would you agree?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

Of course, magic can be evil and occult - I would never deny this. I would simply propose that it is not intrinsically good or evil, like most everything else in the universe. I think that C.S. Lewis illustrated this eloquently in many of his writings including but not limited to the "Chronicles of Narnia" and "The Space Trilogy".

Edited by AlexanderJ
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

Nowadays the theme in many books and movies is centered around "magic". I have a question which I believe to be very relevant to Christians today: Is magic or the theme of magic evil in of itself, or can it be used to glorify God or both?

Are you trying to say that Magic can be used for good AlexanderJ?

I think there is a difference between magic (or magick) and creativity would you agree?

Yes, I do think that Magic can be used for good as well as evil, especially in light of its definition.

What do you mean by "creativity"? Could you elaborate a little more?

Edited by AlexanderJ
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Of course, magic can be evil and occult - I would never deny this. I would simply propose that it is not intrinsically good or evil, like most everything else in the universe. I think that C.S. Lewis illustrated this eloquently in many of his writings including but not limited to the "Chronicles of Narnia" and "The Space Trilogy".

Interesting. I like C.S. Lewis and Tolkein personally. Yet to me these are just fantasies or a made up world. I would never promote actual use of magic for any purpose. God's Holy Spirit is our guide and it is through His power alone that miracles/wonders occur.

What do you mean by "creativity"? Could you elaborate a little?

My question is though what about Harry Potter, the Twilight Saga, etc.?

Creative writting is one thing. Writtings based on the occult is something completely different would you agree?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I don't believe I personally would consider the workings of God as magic/k. To not separate the two blurs a dividing line that should never be blurred.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

Writtings based on the occult is something completely different would you agree?

Of course. If a writing supports evil and the occult (the Forces and Principalities of Evil) it is of course, evil.

However, Magic, by definition is "the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces". Both God and the Devil use invisible and supernatural power. The power is not evil in of itself, it is how it is used, wouldn't you agree?

Edited by AlexanderJ
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I don't believe I personally would consider the workings of God as magic/k. To not separate the two blurs a dividing line that should never be blurred.

I agree. I don't think I'd call God's workings magic(k). There is good and there's evil.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

For one to use 'invisible forces' whose motives are evil to influence events is evil.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Writtings based on the occult is something completely different would you agree?

Of course. If a writing supports evil and the occult (the Forces and Principalities of Evil) it is of course, evil.

However, Magic, by definition is "the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces". Both God and the Devil use invisible and supernatural power. The power is not evil in of itself, it is how it is used, wouldn't you agree?

God's unlimited power is 100% good. Satan and his minions limited power is 100% evil. There really is no comparison in my mind.

God's unlimited power = miracles/wonders = 100% good

Satan's limited power = evil/magic(k) = 100% evil

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

For one to use 'invisible forces' whose motives are evil to influence events is evil.

Of course! But the Power in of itself is not evil, is it?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

God's unlimited power is 100% good. Satan and his minions limited power is 100% evil. There really is no comparison in my mind.

I agree wholeheartedly. However, I was not trying to compare God and Satan (that would be blasphemy); I was simply pointing out that both use invisible and supernatural power, both of which fall within the definition of "magic".

God's unlimited power = miracles/wonders = 100% good

Satan's limited power = evil/magic(k) = 100% evil

Except for the conclusion that "magic" is synonomous with evil, I agree 100%.

If magic is intrinsically evil, then C.S. Lewis' books are not only mistaken but blasphemous, since Christ is symbolized by the Lion, who uses and speaks well of certain magic in "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe". Also, the "Emperor" who symbolizes God the Father, uses magic as well (I quote from the "Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" by C.S. Lewis):

"Oh, Aslan!" whispered Susan in the Lion's ear, "can't we - I mean, you won't, will you? Can't we do something about the Deep Magic? Isn't there something you can work against it?" "Work against the Emperor's Magic?" said Aslan, turning to her with something like a frown on his face. And nobody ever made that suggestion to him again.

Edited by AlexanderJ
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

1. Forms of Magic:

Divination: occurs when a person learns information by supernatural means.

Transmutation: occurs when a person or object is transformed either subtly or obviously.

Evocation: occurs when a person manipulates energy to create something out of nothing.

***The focus of magic is what a person can do and not what God can do.***

2. What is the source (authority) of power from magic?

Authority is important. Jesus was questioned regarding His authority.

Matt. 21:23

23 Now when He came into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people confronted Him as He was teaching, and said, “By what authority are You doing these things? And who gave You this authority?”

Yet we know that Jesus’ authority came from God and it was God who was doing the miracles/wonders.

John 14:10-11

10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

Casting out demons – A house divided cannot stand. He is who is not with Jesus is against Him.

Matt. 12:22-30

22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and[e] mute man both spoke and saw. 23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”

24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub,[f] the ruler of the demons.”

25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.

In the world there are two sources of supernatural power: Power that comes from God and power that comes from His enemies (Satan and his demons). In the Bible there is clear condemnation of mediums, spiritists, sorcerers, soothsayers, etc. because they didn’t receive their power from God but from His demonic enemies.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

3. What are the results of magic?

The Bible says you will know a tree by it’s fruit. A person will be known by what they do.

Matt. 7:16-20

16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

What does magic result in? Galatians 5 gives us a good starting list…

Galatians 5:19-21

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[c] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[d] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

What about the results of those who love God, accept Christ as their Savior, and follow Him? Galatians 5 also speaks to this.

Galatians 5: 22-25

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Your thoughts?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

1. Forms of Magic:

Divination: occurs when a person learns information by supernatural means.

Transmutation: occurs when a person or object is transformed either subtly or obviously.

Evocation: occurs when a person manipulates energy to create something out of nothing.

***The focus of magic is what a person can do and not what God can do.***

The source of all good as God. A person, through the power of God can do the supernatural and the impossible. I would say that the focus of evil magic is exactly as you described "what a person can do and not what God can do" but I would say the focus of good magic is "what God can do through person who believes in him".

A believer can learn information and manipulate the visible world by and from supernatural means. This happens all the time the Bible, and is supported by it as well (as an example, see Samuel 3, Matthew 21:21, Hebrews 11:33). This power, of course, comes directly through and from God.

An unbeliever can also obtain information from supernatural means and this is where mediums and astrologers come in. They receive their power and information from the devil and his minions.

The fruits of all supernatural power that is derived from God are good and the fruits of all supernatural power that comes from the devil and his minions are evil. My point is that magic ( defined as: the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.) Is not evil in of itself.

What are your thoughts on what I wrote earlier?:

If magic is intrinsically evil, then C.S. Lewis' books are not only mistaken but blasphemous, since Christ is symbolized by the Lion, who uses and speaks well of certain magic in "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe". Also, the "Emperor" who symbolizes God the Father, uses magic as well (I quote from the "Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" by C.S. Lewis):

"Oh, Aslan!" whispered Susan in the Lion's ear, "can't we - I mean, you won't, will you? Can't we do something about the Deep Magic? Isn't there something you can work against it?" "Work against the Emperor's Magic?" said Aslan, turning to her with something like a frown on his face. And nobody ever made that suggestion to him again.

Edited by AlexanderJ
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

However, Magic, by definition is "the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces". Both God and the Devil use invisible and supernatural power. The power is not evil in of itself, it is how it is used, wouldn't you agree?

Something to consider, though -

What would you call "the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using [God]".?

Can God be "used"?

What would you call "the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using [faith]".?

Is our faith "our" power to "use" at will for purposes or our deaming?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

However, Magic, by definition is "the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces". Both God and the Devil use invisible and supernatural power. The power is not evil in of itself, it is how it is used, wouldn't you agree?

Something to consider, though -

What would you call "the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using [God]".?

Can God be "used"?

What would you call "the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using [faith]".?

Is our faith "our" power to "use" at will for purposes or our deaming?

I think this is relevant to your questions Neb... The story of Simon in Acts 8...

Acts 8:9-25

The Sorcerer’s Profession of Faith

9 But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously practiced sorcery in the city and astonished the people of Samaria, claiming that he was someone great, 10 to whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, “This man is the great power of God.” 11 And they heeded him because he had astonished them with his sorceries for a long time. 12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. 13 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.

The Sorcerer’s Sin

14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, 19 saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.

20 But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! 21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.”

24 Then Simon answered and said, “Pray to the Lord for me, that none of the things which you have spoken may come upon me.”

25 So when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, they returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

word to the wise, this is what happens when you leave your fate to a magician:

summoneagles.jpg

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

word to the wise, this is what happens when you leave your fate to a magician:

summoneagles.jpg

Lol see:

‘The Hobbit’ as Advent journey

From: http://abpnews.com/o...UMk3eaU1ZSX

However, before there were the wonderful Peter Jackson cinematic interpretations, there were the books that have delighted readers for almost 75 years. At the heart of all the Tolkien Middle Earth books are journeys to recover lost treasure or restore broken kingdoms.

Hobbits like the comfort of home and are not known for their adventuresome spirits. Bilbo Baggins, the hobbit who takes the unexpected journey, was well respected because he never did anything unexpected. He lived in a comfortable home, enjoyed his food and community and was quite content living his everyday life.

This was until Gandalf, the white wizard, showed up at his door. Before he knew it, there were 13 dwarves in his hobbit hole eating his food, singing songs and talking of great adventures to slay a dragon and reclaim their lost gold. Within a day he was on an unexpected journey that would change him forever.

As I read this wonderful story for the child in adults everywhere, it struck me that great literature often takes its readers along on journeys and quests, and The Hobbit gathers up all the wonder of Advent in its unexpected journey.

Advent calls us to leave the comforts of ordinary life for a great adventure. The fact that we seldom think of Advent in this way speaks to how we have lost the mystery of taking a journey to discover the coming Christ. Advent provides the opportunity for us to reorient our lives and take a great adventure by living with different priorities and dreams.

Advent reminds us of the need to reclaim lost treasures in our lives. Central to the story line of The Hobbit is the dwarves’ desire to reclaim gold stolen from their ancestors by the dragon Smaug. Every year the commercialism of Christmas takes center stage and challenges our priorities. Advent reminds us to reclaim what has been taken from us by this culture and rediscover the treasure of our hearts.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

However, Magic, by definition is "the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces". Both God and the Devil use invisible and supernatural power. The power is not evil in of itself, it is how it is used, wouldn't you agree?

Something to consider, though -

What would you call "the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using [God]".?

Can God be "used"?

What would you call "the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using [faith]".?

Is our faith "our" power to "use" at will for purposes or our deaming?

Christians cannot "use" God (in the sense of using something like a tool), but they can use God's power in certain cases. The miracles that the Apostles and many other Christians performed were such cases.

Our faith is one of the many gifts God has given to men and it should be used for His glory..

Edited by AlexanderJ
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

What kinda magic we talking about here? Card tricks or wiggle your nose and dinner is made?

Mike.

We are talking about "the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces. ".

Edited by AlexanderJ
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0