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Who is the Holy Spirit?

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#61
1peterlight

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Before I get off into the counting thing... seven spirits of God... let's establish that the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son.

John 14:26 (NIV)
26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

John 15:26 (NIV)
26 “When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

The Holy Spirit is sent by both Father and Son ergo he is neither Father or Son. One cannot send one's self. One comes or one goes.

The Holy Spirit is not an impersonal force or power but is a person who can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30).

Acts 13:2 (NIV)
2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

Personal!

And he is God.

Acts 5:3-4 (NIV)
3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land?
4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God.”

Furthermore, he is the Author of the Bible.

2 Peter 1:20-21 (NIV)
20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation.
21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

He is the witness of creation...

Genesis 1:2 (NIV)
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

He is the testifier of truth.

John 16:13 (NIV)
13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

John 14:26 (NIV)
26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

John 15:26 (NIV)
26 “When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

He is the deliverer of the holy zygote / embryo (Jesus)** into the womb of the virgin (Matthew 1:18-20 / Luke 1:35).

** which was created by the Father (John 1:14, Hebrews 1:5, Hebrews 10:5) Reminding ourselves of the distinction between Father and Holy Spirit (John 14:26).

And as far as the "seven spirits of God" goes... remember Hebrew is a language that uses letters as numbers. Conversely, numbers have meaning. In the case of seven it means completeness or fulness or maturity without necessarily meaning seven actual items.


very well laid out! if anyone had any doubts about the subject, address them here :)


I agree! An awesome post on it!

#62
FresnoJoe

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.... Who lives inside believers ....


God, The SON

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:19-20

God, The Father

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. John 14:23

God, The Holy Ghost

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 1 Corinthians 6:19

What More Could A Body Want

As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. Psalms 42:1

#63
xero

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Guys, what we have here, plain and simple is a mystery. The Trinity is a mystery.

The Bible says this is a great mystery, not a trinity:

Ephesians 5:31 "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church."

On the topic of the Father being within us just as the Holy Spirt and Christ because were all one in God:

Ephesians 4:4 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."

John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."

John 14:11 "Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake."

The arguements for a trinity are logical fallacies based on the inference that because God is called Father, Son, and Holy Spirit it must mean God is three separate persons while ignoring every other name God is called in the Bible.

If we were to personify every name it still wouldnt be a trinity but would rather resemble a pantheon.

I conclude that the Holy Spirit is God, which is my answer of the OP, because God is one.


#64
*Zion*

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Xero, there are many words that the Bible doesn't use that we use. We don't speak Greek and we don't speak Hebrew and we don't speak Aramaic. We use English words because that's our common language that we share and communicate on this forum. Not everyone is going to have an inter-lingual translatory Bible and know all the precise terms for everything. Please understand this. Thank you.

#65
enoob57

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Guys, what we have here, plain and simple is a mystery. The Trinity is a mystery.

The Bible says this is a great mystery, not a trinity:

Ephesians 5:31 "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church."

On the topic of the Father being within us just as the Holy Spirt and Christ because were all one in God:

Ephesians 4:4 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."

John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."

John 14:11 "Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake."

The arguements for a trinity are logical fallacies based on the inference that because God is called Father, Son, and Holy Spirit it must mean God is three separate persons while ignoring every other name God is called in the Bible.

If we were to personify every name it still wouldnt be a trinity but would rather resemble a pantheon.

I conclude that the Holy Spirit is God, which is my answer of the OP, because God is one.

It would seem you haven't learned the most simple rule of all in Bible understanding...
We do not have the capacity to define God and as this is true - so we must as God says...
so repeat!
Yes God says that He 'IS' One God... He also Has given Distinction in that One as Individual
Eternal Persons - The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit.... as this is what God Has defined or
better revealed about Himself "Let Us" so we accept even though our minds cannot reconcile
the reality! If you press one with the exclusion of the other you are out of God's Word into some-
thing else... seeing how God's Word 'IS' the only truth what would the other be then? Love, Steven

#66
xero

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Xero, there are many words that the Bible doesn't use that we use. We don't speak Greek and we don't speak Hebrew and we don't speak Aramaic. We use English words because that's our common language that we share and communicate on this forum. Not everyone is going to have an inter-lingual translatory Bible and know all the precise terms for everything. Please understand this. Thank you.


Implying Im wrong doesnt prove youre right. If you think the quotes Ive made mean something different in their original language then prove it with examples.

Attempting to discredit my arguement with a reason that lacks any example of proof isnt a debate of facts.


#67
*Zion*

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This makes me laugh a little. You're the one implying that the use of the term trinity is wrong when it's not, and so feel threatened when I explain why we have used it here. Relax, Xero. Not everything has to be so complicated. It's not about being right, it's about understanding and growth. :thumbsup:

Blessings

#68
xero

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This makes me laugh a little. You're the one implying that the use of the term trinity is wrong when it's not, and so feel threatened when I explain why we have used it here. Relax, Xero. Not everything has to be so complicated. It's not about being right, it's about understanding and growth. :thumbsup:

Blessings


I didnt imply the term trinity is wrong Ive been blatant in that regard. Im not threatened by the lie of a trinity and God being one isnt complicated at all if you listen to the Bible.

If your information isnt right then you arent really understanding youre misunderstanding; you arent growing youre stunting growth.

I invite you again to provide proof of your claims.

Illustrate how any of the quotes I used in my testimony that God is one have a different meaning in the original language other than what is plainly stated in english.

Otherwise youre not debating Biblical facts youre speculating.



#69
RedMomma

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I have read all of this thread,and this is what i have to say on this topic ok....
I was raised in an oneness church,and wasnt very happy for the teachings felt wrong just on the Holy Spirit alone.It got to where I walked away over not getting answers from the "rev" .
When I renew my relationship I came here and asked quite a few nice folks about the very topic Im posting on today, I agree with ayin jades posts ,The Holy Spirit is so not a what He is a person,you cant grieve a force period and once you recieve Him thats all you need to know just my opinion. I hope the original folks that disagreed gets their answers for theyre robbing themselves of a wonderful friend!!!

#70
FresnoJoe

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I have read all of this thread,and this is what i have to say on this topic ok....
I was raised in an oneness church,and wasnt very happy for the teachings felt wrong just on the Holy Spirit alone.It got to where I walked away over not getting answers from the "rev" .


When I renew my relationship I came here and asked quite a few nice folks about the very topic Im posting on today, I agree with ayin jades posts ,The Holy Spirit is so not a what He is a person,you cant grieve a force period and once you recieve Him thats all you need to know just my opinion. I hope the original folks that disagreed gets their answers for they're robbing themselves of a wonderful friend!!!


:emot-heartbeat:

#71
*Zion*

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This makes me laugh a little. You're the one implying that the use of the term trinity is wrong when it's not, and so feel threatened when I explain why we have used it here. Relax, Xero. Not everything has to be so complicated. It's not about being right, it's about understanding and growth. :thumbsup:

Blessings


I didnt imply the term trinity is wrong Ive been blatant in that regard. Im not threatened by the lie of a trinity and God being one isnt complicated at all if you listen to the Bible.

If your information isnt right then you arent really understanding youre misunderstanding; you arent growing youre stunting growth.

I invite you again to provide proof of your claims.

Illustrate how any of the quotes I used in my testimony that God is one have a different meaning in the original language other than what is plainly stated in english.

Otherwise youre not debating Biblical facts youre speculating.


It seems there's a real misunderstanding here. Alright, Xero: please explain why you think the trinity is a lie. I'm talking about the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Which one is the one God you're talking about? Notice that I haven't asked you to prove anything. This isn't about I'm right/you're wrong, ok? Just help me understand you. This doesn't mean that I HAVE to agree with you.

Blessings.

I have read all of this thread,and this is what i have to say on this topic ok....
I was raised in an oneness church,and wasnt very happy for the teachings felt wrong just on the Holy Spirit alone.It got to where I walked away over not getting answers from the "rev" .
When I renew my relationship I came here and asked quite a few nice folks about the very topic Im posting on today, I agree with ayin jades posts ,The Holy Spirit is so not a what He is a person,you cant grieve a force period and once you recieve Him thats all you need to know just my opinion. I hope the original folks that disagreed gets their answers for theyre robbing themselves of a wonderful friend!!!


Amen and Amen!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Edited by *Zion*, 15 March 2013 - 01:31 AM.


#72
*Zion*

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Just so I make myself clear, this is the God that I believe in. I totally worship Him and revere His Name:

Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Blessings.

#73
xero

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It seems there's a real misunderstanding here. Alright, Xero: please explain why you think the trinity is a lie. I'm talking about the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Which one is the one God you're talking about? Notice that I haven't asked you to prove anything. This isn't about I'm right/you're wrong, ok? Just help me understand you. This doesnt mean I HAVE to agree with you.


Ive already told you why the trinity is a lie.

On the topic of the Father being within us just as the Holy Spirt and Christ because were all one in God:

Ephesians 4:4 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."

John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."

John 14:11 "Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake."

The arguements for a trinity are logical fallacies based on the inference that because God is called Father, Son, and Holy Spirit it must mean God is three separate persons while ignoring every other name God is called in the Bible.

If we were to personify every name it still wouldnt be a trinity but would rather resemble a pantheon.

I conclude that the Holy Spirit is God, which is my answer of the OP, because God is one.



*** edited out the personal attacks ***

You should try addressing the issue in a different manner.

Colossians 4:6
Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.

Edited by OneLight, 15 March 2013 - 03:36 PM.
... against the ToS


#74
*Zion*

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Ok Xero, I've tried my best to understand you but I just don't. If you look through all this thread you can clearly see I never pointed you out as false or untrue or whatever, just simply trying to understand. I've never even asked you to prove anything. I don't want proof. You're the one on the attack, so please don't make this my problem. Yes I don't agree. You may even be right. But you're not infallible, you do actually know that, right? Allow someone to disagree with you without pointing fingers please. It doesn't mean that anybody is stupid or wrong, but if that's what you'd like me to imagine, then I can see the suggestion very strongly in every one of your replies. Does that mean I'm accusing? No. It means that there is a way to discuss things. Let me ask you this question now: have you actually ever considered that you may actually be quite possibly wrong? I'm not telling you to doubt your faith or belief in God or the scriptures or even about the claims you've made in this specific thread. Look at the way you've handled this whole discussion. I'm looking at me too. Let see if we can't continue without the conflict shall we?

Edited by *Zion*, 15 March 2013 - 10:56 AM.


#75
Rustyangel

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The Holy Spirit is a person of God. Forces cannot be grieved. The Holy Spirit can. Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you are sealed until the day of redemption. Forces cannot give gifts. The Holy Spirit can. 1 Corinthians 12:11 But the one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing separately to each one as He desires.


Excellent thought, Well said. For me the Holy Spirit is the one who convicts, comforts. But I think jade said it all.

#76
Mcgyver

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xero wrote:

Ive already told you why the trinity is a lie.


Well, the Trinity simply expresses the biblical truth that there is one God, who has revealed Himself as three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit...

So if the Trinity is a lie, how do we explain the following:

1. At the baptism of Jesus, we see the Father speaking from Heaven, the Son being baptized, and the Holy Spirit descending.

2. At the Cross we see Jesus on the cross speaking to the Father.

3. We see each with His own will:
“Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.” Luke 22:42
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. John 6:38
But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. 1 Corinthians 12:11

So how do you reconcile what you've posted with the scriptures and incidents above?

#77
xero

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Macgyver,

Phillipians 2:5 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Christ being in the form of God took on the form of a servant and humbled himself being obedient even to His death.

Christ took on the form of man to be obedient. He submits Himself to the will of the Father not the will of the flesh. He being in the form of man denies the temptations of the flesh to the death as an obedient servant to the will of the Father.

But who is the Father?

Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this."

Isaiah 9:6 is about Christ and He is called the everlasting Father.

I posted this previously about why Christ said "God, my God why have you forsaken me.":

Psalm 22:1 "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?"

Matthew 27:46 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Why would He quote Psalm 22?

Psalm 22:18 "They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture."
 
He was telling those watching that the Psalm was being fulfilled and vicariously us as well.


This passage doesnt support a trinity it says were one body and one Spirit:

1 Corinthians 12:11"But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

God has revealed Himself as the Living Water, the Consuming Fire, the Breath of Life, the Eternal Rock, the Light, the Word, the Truth, I AM that I AM, the Bridegroom, and so much more.

This is what Jesus said when questioned about who He is:

John 8:28 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. 29And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him. 30As he spake these words, many believed on him."





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