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Are there any moderate or liberal Christians out there?


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42 replies to this topic

#1
Editor1

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OK, there are a lot of things about Christianity that are great. But there are plenty of other facets I find troubling and really do not want to embrace.

One such area is the right-wing political policies that get vocally advocated for by many Christians. Now, I am all for freedom of speech and each person holding whatever positions they choose. I simply ask to be afforded the same rights and respect.

There are many political issues --- from economic and taxes to gun control and others --- that I often find myself on the opposite side from many of my Christian friends. I cannot see any real connection between one's stance on these issues and their personal faith or belief system. Yet it seems that, at least in the United States --- much more frequently than other countries --- there is a strong tie between the two.

So I wonder if there are other moderate or liberal Christians out there and how they deal with the not-so-subtle pressure to conform and the battle to be true to one's own opinions and beliefs and yet still be Christian.

#2
JustinM

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Well, if you are looking for fellowship with like-minded people, there are forums here that don't discuss politics. That would be a good place to start. We have a lot in common when it comes to the foundation of our faith and how we apply it to our lives.

Politics is humanistic in nature. If you can distinguish between the two without getting them confused, you'll find you have more in common with people here than you think. Just don't expect all Christians to take a secular stance on things. Our faith defines us and our lives, Christians shouldn't be expected to live anything but a Christian lifestyle.

#3
the_patriot2014

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justin brings out a good point. Most of us will literelly go at each others throats in politics, but in the lighter threads, be best of friends. The rule of thumb is to always debate the topic-and not the person. its difficult, weve all fallen short on that end, and if I have I apologize. The next rule is to forgive and forget, someone says something you disagree with and/or offends you, it helps to forgive and move on, dont hold on to past grudges. and hang out in the lighter parts of the boards, get to know all of us-not just our political views.

#4
FresnoJoe

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just what is the "Christian" stance on gun control?


One Shot, One Kill?

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Matthew 5:44-45

~

what is the "Christian" stance on taxes?


Pay And Play?

Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Romans 13:5-8

~

Excellent Questions Dear Brother

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING


The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.


And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

#5
Butero

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OK, there are a lot of things about Christianity that are great. But there are plenty of other facets I find troubling and really do not want to embrace.

One such area is the right-wing political policies that get vocally advocated for by many Christians. Now, I am all for freedom of speech and each person holding whatever positions they choose. I simply ask to be afforded the same rights and respect.

There are many political issues --- from economic and taxes to gun control and others --- that I often find myself on the opposite side from many of my Christian friends. I cannot see any real connection between one's stance on these issues and their personal faith or belief system. Yet it seems that, at least in the United States --- much more frequently than other countries --- there is a strong tie between the two.

So I wonder if there are other moderate or liberal Christians out there and how they deal with the not-so-subtle pressure to conform and the battle to be true to one's own opinions and beliefs and yet still be Christian.

I noticed your status has you listed as "seeker," and not Christian. That would indicate to me that you must have a non-traditional view of what it means to be a Christian? My first question to you is, are you a Christian, and if you are, why are you listed as a seeker? My second comment would be that most evangelicals, including myself, are conservative across the board. IMO it is possible to be a Christian and support a progressive tax system and gun control, even though I oppose both, but it is not possible to be a real Christian and support the Democratic Party because of their position on abortion and gay marriage. Both of those positions are 100 percent at odds with scripture. I have known of some liberals that are pro-life and pro-traditional marriage, and I fully believe them to be Christians, but they can't support candidates like Obama, with his anti-Christian positions without committing sin. That is how I see it.

#6
Butero

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Politics is humanistic in nature. If you can distinguish between the two without getting them confused, you'll find you have more in common with people here than you think.


this is the trick isnt it?


Just don't expect all Christians to take a secular stance on things. Our faith defines us and our lives, Christians shouldn't be expected to live anything but a Christian lifestyle.


just what is the "Christian" stance on gun control?
what is the "Christian" stance on taxes?

Personally, I would have to agree with you that there is no absolute Christian position on gun control or taxes. From my perspective the only thing I have had problems with regarding your positions is your being ok with gay marriage. I don't believe a Christian can support something so clearly at odds with scripture. I also have a problem with anyone who would defend the Democratic Party when their platform supports abortion and gay marriage. I personally have a problem with a progressive tax system, as to me that is theft, but I recognize that not everyone sees it that way, and it isn't something so clear I can say a person who doesn't agree is not Christian. I also have a problem with those who look to the government as the solution to everything, as I see them coming very close to looking at the government as their god, and putting their trust in government instead of God. Some truly see government as some kind of safety net, so again, this is not something I am going to look at as a salvation issue. I have said, and continue to say that IMO no real Christian could be a Democrat, and support that party's candidates, as long as their platform support abortion and gay marriage. Take those two things out of the equation, and have pro-life, pro-traditional marriage liberals, and then it just comes down to preference. I don't care that the GOP has been unsuccessful in dealing with those matters. That is not the same as openly supporting evil.

#7
Editor1

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I noticed your status has you listed as "seeker," and not Christian. That would indicate to me that you must have a non-traditional view of what it means to be a Christian? My first question to you is, are you a Christian, and if you are, why are you listed as a seeker?


I have no idea who or how that is determined. Wasn't my decision and I don't obsess too much over labels.

#8
JustinM

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Politics is humanistic in nature. If you can distinguish between the two without getting them confused, you'll find you have more in common with people here than you think.


this is the trick isnt it?


Just don't expect all Christians to take a secular stance on things. Our faith defines us and our lives, Christians shouldn't be expected to live anything but a Christian lifestyle.


just what is the "Christian" stance on gun control?
what is the "Christian" stance on taxes?


I was speaking generally about all subjects, not just gun control and taxes.

#9
JustinM

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They aren't going to get answered in this forum. They aren't the subject of this conversation. Please don't make it about me. I was pointing Editor1 in the right direction. If he wants to get to know people better, he should go to the fellowship forum. I think a lot of misunderstandings occur here, because people don't take the time to get to know each other on a more personal level.

#10
JustinM

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Well, if you are adamant about your irrelevant questions being answered, we can take it outside, to the relevant conversation. . .;)

#11
the_patriot2014

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They aren't going to get answered in this forum. They aren't the subject of this conversation. Please don't make it about me. I was pointing Editor1 in the right direction. If he wants to get to know people better, he should go to the fellowship forum. I think a lot of misunderstandings occur here, because people don't take the time to get to know each other on a more personal level.



Amen brother

#12
Tinky

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"Liberal Christian" is an oxymoron. :swordfightsmiles:

#13
shiloh357

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"Liberal Christian" is an oxymoron. :swordfightsmiles:

Yep. :thumbsup:

#14
Matthitjah

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Editor1,

The problem arises when someones personal preferences do not align with a Godly worldview.

You will find most Christians starting out with a worldly perspective and preferences, but progressively changing that worldview as they mature in their faith. That is if they so desire to mature and leave behind those things that are not Christ.

Peace,
Dave

#15
Leonard

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Sure. There are lots and lots of Christians who are Liberals or moderates. Just not ANY who understand the Christian world view very well.

ALL Leftist political thought is derived from the Marxist philosophical a prioris of Dialectical Materialism, which is utterly and completely antichrist, and antibiblical.

It is unfortunate but true that many millions of Christians 'speak half the tongue of Zion, and half the heathen language.....'

#16
Matthitjah

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Sure. There are lots and lots of Christians who are Liberals or moderates. Just not ANY who understand the Christian world view very well.

ALL Leftist political thought is derived from the Marxist philosophical a prioris of Dialectical Materialism, which is utterly and completely antichrist, and antibiblical.

It is unfortunate but true that many millions of Christians 'speak half the tongue of Zion, and half the heathen language.....'


Exactly. :thumbsup:

There is also unfortunate Hellenistic thought out there as well.

#17
Matthitjah

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Let me try to explain it through example.

I have this friend at Church who came to Christ many years ago. He was a drug dealer at first and had many issues with anger over his childhood. he has overcome many trials and has had many situations where God has tried him.

By that, I mean this; He has had many awesome opportunity's afforded him. Some of the men in Church have given him jobs or taken him under their wing to train him in one apprenticeship or another. Each time he has self destructed and left a job that was going well for him for over a year or so. Each time over anger or anxiety. Meanwhile he has dated several women at Church, each time it does not work out for one reason or another. He is a young man and I have had many a talk with him. Several years ago, after another failure, he admitted to me that he smokes dope and that while he knows it is wrong and that God doesn't like it that he has no intention of quitting. I prayed for him and told him to leave it alone.

Recently, he had another huge failure on both fronts. He lost this awesome job due to his anger and his woman dumped him. He also got kicked out of some housing through the Church all in the same weekend and the kicker was that he was caught smoking Dope again and got kicked out of this program. All of this happened in series of several days over the weekend.

When I saw him on a Sunday he was very distraught and upset. I talked with him and asked what had happened. He was vague. I asked him about the job and if he had followed God there. Nope, was the answer. How about the situation at the house? Nope, was his answer again.

He got caught smoking Dope in this program. I asked him, if he knew that following God in these circumstances was the right thing to do and that because he wasn't doing it he was experiencing crisis situations, what the answer was for him? He stated God would just have to forgive him because he has no itnention of giving up what he wants and that includes the Dope, as he previously stated. Sadly, I believe he will continue on in crisis after crisis until he learns what is in his heart is wrong and gives it over to God.

It's like our Nation. We are in a crisis after crisis as God tests and try's our hearts. It is also a Spiritual Law that we are bound up in. If we choose not to follow God there are consequences. Even a non-believing non-professing Nation that follows after Righteousness will be blessed.

Christians can be Saved, but go on just ignoring God and complaining about how it isn't working out. They can even adopt an unGodly worldview, but if they are sincere they will see that doesn't work after some time. Then their worldview will begin to change.

As for my friend, I believe that he is firmly in Gods graps and that one way or another God will deal with him over his issues. The young man has come along way and I see humility in him. He may not be ready to give up his anger or Dope today, but if you saw where he was ten years ago and where he is now you would see the progression.

That's the thing though, there has to be a willing heart.

Here's a tidbit borrowed from Facebook today from a dear brother in Christ;

"Why does God test us? To find out what is in our hearts? Absolutely not. He already knows what is hidden in our hearts. He tests us so that WE might know what is in our hearts....." John Bevere



#18
the_patriot2014

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are there liberals that are christians? certainly. God doesnt say you must be conservative to be a christian, and even once we are christians, we are still human and still make mistakes. I tend to think christian liberals are christians-who mistakenly believe in the liberal system. Does that make them not christian? no not at all. I think it may make them wrong, but not christian. Of course, Im sure they think the same about me, but I wont question someones faith just because they are liberal-I will just question their ideas.

#19
Tinky

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"Liberal Christian" is an oxymoron. :swordfightsmiles:

but of course, anyone that does not think like you could not possibly be a Christian. :beehive:



It's simple. Liberals approve of abortion. Liberals also approve of the homosexual lifestyle. Anyone who approves of either, is a Christian in name only.

Economically, Liberals approve of "spreading the wealth," which is nothing but socialism, which is nothing but legalized theft. Taking from someone for the sole reason that they have more than someone else, is wrong.

#20
Sevenseas

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"Liberal Christian" is an oxymoron. :swordfightsmiles:

but of course, anyone that does not think like you could not possibly be a Christian. :beehive:


or vice versa............. :whistling:




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