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There Isn't "Plenty of Time for Evolution

Evolution With Foresight

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#1
FresnoJoe

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And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

And the evening and the morning were the third day. Genesis 1:9-13

~

The Mystical Oracle (The Giver Of Foresight)

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

Found Woven Throughout The Story Of The Evolution

Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding? Isaiah 29:16

That Genie Coiled In The Mystical Darkened Bottle Of Science So Called

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Romans 1:21

Peer-Reviewed Science: There Isn't "Plenty of Time for Evolution"

In other words, Wilf and Ewens endowed their mathematical model of evolution with foresight. It is directed toward a target -- an advantage that natural selection conspicuously lacks. And what, in our experience, is the only known cause that is goal-directed and has foresight? It's intelligence. This means that once again, the Evolutionary Informatics Lab has shown that simulations of That Mystical Oracle (Giver Of Foresight) seem to work only because they've been intelligently designed. http://www.evolution..._s_1067421.html


~

So Easy Even A Mathematician Can See It :)

What Say Ye?

#2
warriorforJesus

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I agree. This world is too diverse for it too have been made by evolution. I know God created it, because of all of the people and cultures, landscapes, and nature. I'm proud to believe in the Creation! How can there not be a God, especially when I watch Animal Planet. He made animals to be really amazing.

#3
AlexanderJ

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Amen! I couldn't resist quoting this chapter from Psalms:

Psalms 8:1 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.
3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;
8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!


#4
warriorforJesus

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That's cool that God created the whole world in just seven days. I couldn't do that.

#5
Citizenship

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That's cool that God created the whole world in just seven days. I couldn't do that.


According to my information, one day for the Lord are thousand years for us. So, probably it is more appropriate to call it
the seven thousand years creation ;)

Ciao

- viole


Perhapes Viole, perhaps... but even Christians, IMO, use the "thousand years for a day" verses out of context. It is possible that they have a prophetic significance but prophecies point forwards not backwards.

In the original verse in Psalm 90 it says "For a thousand years in your sight are like a day" and when Peter paraphrases the verse he says "With the Lord a day is like a thousand years", which he uses to demonstrate God's patience.

Both of these verses describe the passing of time as it appears from God's perspective, which has nothing to do with how time passes on earth.

But I'm glad to see you subscribing to a young earth model (I told you I was a believer) ;)

#6
thomas t

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So Easy Even A Mathematician Can See It :)

What Say Ye?

Hello Joe,
I was just reading the introduction. Dembski et al only intended to provide a rebuttal for mathematical models that evolutionists used to back up their theses.
He only debunked a model ot their's. This is how I understand his intention. It says..

The new paper responds to a 2010 paper in Proceedings of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences (PNAS) titled "There's plenty of time for evolution," by Herbert S. Wilf and Warren J. Ewens, a biologist and a mathematician at the University of Pennsylvania.

Warren and Evens are from the evolutionist side, as reads the article.

Enjoy the day
Thomas

#7
enoob57

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That's cool that God created the whole world in just seven days. I couldn't do that.


According to my information, one day for the Lord are thousand years for us. So, probably it is more appropriate to call it
the seven thousand years creation ;)

Ciao

- viole

God hasn't given you hermenutical permission to do that viole... naughty girl! Love, Steven

#8
Fez

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That's cool that God created the whole world in just seven days. I couldn't do that.

Well obviously. You are not God. But you can move mountains in His name. He has told you you can.

#9
FresnoJoe

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That's cool that God created the whole world in just seven days. I couldn't do that.


According to my information, one day for the Lord are thousand years for us. So, probably it is more appropriate to call it
the seven thousand years creation ;)


Has To Do With The Coming Wrath

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2 Pete 3:5-10

You See?

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Revelation 20:11

And Then It All Goes Puff

#10
FresnoJoe

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So Easy Even A Mathematician Can See It :)

What Say Ye?

Hello Joe,
I was just reading the introduction. Dembski et al only intended to provide a rebuttal for mathematical models that evolutionists used to back up their theses.
He only debunked a model ot their's. This is how I understand his intention. It says..

The new paper responds to a 2010 paper in Proceedings of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences (PNAS) titled "There's plenty of time for evolution," by Herbert S. Wilf and Warren J. Ewens, a biologist and a mathematician at the University of Pennsylvania.

Warren and Evens are from the evolutionist side, as reads the article.

Enjoy the day
Thomas

Well, I am happy that someone else understood the text. :)


Yes And Did You Get Their Point?
No Time For Bonzo
To Turn Into Jane
Or Turnup
To Dick

#11
gdemoss

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That's cool that God created the whole world in just seven days. I couldn't do that.


According to my information, one day for the Lord are thousand years for us. So, probably it is more appropriate to call it
the seven thousand years creation ;)

Ciao

- viole


Your getting so much closer to the truth. Though he created it in six literal days he is perfecting it in six thousand years. At the end of the perfecting is the 1000 year millennial reign of Christ on earth which is about to commence. The sons of God will be manifested and will bring in the Kingdom of God upon the earth. My hope for you is that God will mercifully keep you alive through that which is to come so that when Christ actually arrives you will understand and know him as the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God. There will be no atheists left as all will know him from the least to the greatest. May God shed his grace on thee!

#12
enoob57

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That's cool that God created the whole world in just seven days. I couldn't do that.


According to my information, one day for the Lord are thousand years for us. So, probably it is more appropriate to call it
the seven thousand years creation ;)

Ciao

- viole


Your getting so much closer to the truth. Though he created it in six literal days he is perfecting it in six thousand years. At the end of the perfecting is the 1000 year millennial reign of Christ on earth which is about to commence. The sons of God will be manifested and will bring in the Kingdom of God upon the earth. My hope for you is that God will mercifully keep you alive through that which is to come so that when Christ actually arrives you will understand and know him as the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God. There will be no atheists left as all will know him from the least to the greatest. May God shed his grace on thee!

Gary I am of a dispensational view of God's dealing with man-
http://www.biblecent..._seven_disp.htm
Is this how you see the Bible written? Love, Steven

#13
gdemoss

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Gary I am of a dispensational view of God's dealing with man-
http://www.biblecent..._seven_disp.htm
Is this how you see the Bible written? Love, Steven


I do share somewhat in the dispensational view of scripture but with some alterations to the understanding. This thread is about there not being 'Plenty of time' for evolution' and we ought to try to stay on topic...which of course, I know, is hard for guys like me to do.

#14
enoob57

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Gary I am of a dispensational view of God's dealing with man-
http://www.biblecent..._seven_disp.htm
Is this how you see the Bible written? Love, Steven


I do share somewhat in the dispensational view of scripture but with some alterations to the understanding. This thread is about there not being 'Plenty of time' for evolution' and we ought to try to stay on topic...which of course, I know, is hard for guys like me to do.

well it's good to turn over a new leaf while there still is not enough time for evolution... :thumbsup:

#15
Vanguard

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This is where I specialize (and what my theology/divinity studies are geared for). Biblical interpretation, and the application of hermeneutics.

There is one, crucial thing that people are overlooking...

No where does it say that the heavens and the earth were created on the first day. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

The time lapse between "in the beginning" and the start of creation on earth as we interpret it, could be an infinite amount of time. The Bible does not say. It is called the Time Gap Theory. It also shoots holes in the Young Earth Theory.

Just something to think about.

#16
FresnoJoe

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This is where I specialize (and what my theology/divinity studies are geared for). Biblical interpretation, and the application of hermeneutics.

There is one, crucial thing that people are overlooking...

No where does it say that the heavens and the earth were created on the first day. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

The time lapse between "in the beginning" and the start of creation on earth as we interpret it, could be an infinite amount of time. The Bible does not say. It is called the Time Gap Theory. It also shoots holes in the Young Earth Theory.

Just something to think about.


Day One ~

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Genesis 1:1-5

And Thinking O LORD How Great Thou Art

And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 22:5

Day Four ~

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Genesis 1:14-19

And Thinking, O Lord How Great Thou Art

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.


All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:1-3

And Day Six, The First Six Revolutions Of This Earth ~

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Genesis 1:31

And Thinking, O Lord How Great Thou Art

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:


For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:8-11

~

The Trouble With Reading

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

Most Will Not Believe

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6

The Truth

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8

~

Believe


And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. Mark 16:6

And Be Blessed Beloved

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.


He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:9-14

Love, Joe

#17
Fez

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And away we go with the one week argument :cool2:

There are dozens of threads on Worthy on the subject, and it would behoove anyone venturing into these waters to perhaps peruse them to get an idea of the minefield upon which they are about to dance.

#18
Fez

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This is where I specialize (and what my theology/divinity studies are geared for). Biblical interpretation, and the application of hermeneutics.


Just to let you know, there are many people on Worthy that are pastors, doctors, elders, or like my wife, so soaked in the Spirit that the bible is their life, what they live, every second of every day. There are people here whose every breath is a prayer.

They don't need teaching, they teach by living. They leave the echo of the Holy Spirit behind when they leave a room. They are people you just want to be around because they are "good", and you can feel it when they arrive, and they leave a fragrance behind when they leave. Six days or a million, it means little to them.

Because they know Jesus, and have their eyes and hearts fixed on eternity.

That's not something you are taught, that is the faith that comes from Jesus. Then they mine the bible for more of Him, not for intellectual knowledge, but because they are wringing love out of every page.

It;s not something you teach, it's something you learn.

#19
FresnoJoe

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This is where I specialize (and what my theology/divinity studies are geared for). Biblical interpretation, and the application of hermeneutics.


Just to let you know, there are many people on Worthy that are pastors, doctors, elders, or like my wife, so soaked in the Spirit that the bible is their life, what they live, every second of every day. There are people here whose every breath is a prayer.

They don't need teaching, they teach by living. They leave the echo of the Holy Spirit behind when they leave a room. They are people you just want to be around because they are "good", and you can feel it when they arrive, and they leave a fragrance behind when they leave. Six days or a million, it means little to them.

Because they know Jesus, and have their eyes and hearts fixed on eternity.

That's not something you are taught, that is the faith that comes from Jesus. Then they mine the bible for more of Him, not for intellectual knowledge, but because they are wringing love out of every page.

It;s not something you teach, it's something you learn.


:thumbsup:

The Core Of The Bible

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39

Has A Name

and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus. John 12:21(c-d)

Yet Most Turn Away

And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst: Deuteronomy 29:19

And Follow Their Imaginations

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8

~

Believe

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? John 3:12

And Be Blessed Beloved

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.John 3:7

Love, Joe

#20
Vanguard

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Yes, that is all well and good, but it still does not change the fact that the Bible never says the heavens and earth were created on day 1, merely in the beginning. People "assume" it's all wrapped up in day 1. Personally, I believe in the Time Gap Theory. You can't refute the TGT biblically, as Genesis does not provide adequate information to the contrary.

The only thing created on day 1 was light, but not in the sense of a light emitting object. The Hebrew is actually referring to illumination/enlightenment, and God is the source of it. The sun/moon were not created until day 4.

I won't be arguing about this. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I used to be an old hard line, die hard, KJV only Southern Baptist...then God opened my eyes.




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