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nebula

An opinion on gun control

46 posts in this topic

good point fez, I just tire of australians saying look at us, we have no guns and were crime free. Fact is, theres violent crime in every country in the world, "gun free" or not. the problem, is not the guns, the problem is the heart of the people.

i agree with you and fez as i am a little bit diffrent thats why i do not side with some who say we in Australia have it good due to the gun buy back the problem as you had stated patriot the problem is the heart off the people.

we are not crime free patriot for some to say we are they live in what i call a bubble were they either are not willing to tell the truth or just like beating around the bush no country is perfect i never point the finger at what is going on in America as by doing this your not looking at what is really going on in your own country its so easy to side with the radicals out their that love to come down on America

its something america needs to deal with

being around guns since i was young having friends who have also been taught the way i was i side with the gun owners more than i side with the ones who want a gun free society

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People need to stop trying to deflect the shooting in the USA by quoting other countries and other gun crimes. There are gun crimes in just about every country where people own guns. That, taking people into account, is a given. There are also mentally ill in all the countries where people own guns (and believe me they get far less help than in some westernized countries). There are also TV hosts, and radio announcers who are for or against guns. There are Christians who are for and against. There are politicians that are for and against.

In every gun carrying society in the world there is a for and against argument, and there are gun crimes ....

(I am not talking about the various wars being fought all over the globe right now, I am talking about private citizens)

What there is not in every gun carrying society in the world is the now almost regular slaughter of schoolchildren on a large scale.

Now is not the time to deflect arguments, now is the time to act.

How? I don't know. But the problem runs deep and it is evil.

Hello Fez,

This is a concern.

Christians are vocal on issues concerning taxes, homosexual liberty, and abortion etc and protest to the government in these areas. What can the Christian expect from their government concerning this issue ?

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People need to stop trying to deflect the shooting in the USA by quoting other countries and other gun crimes. There are gun crimes in just about every country where people own guns. That, taking people into account, is a given. There are also mentally ill in all the countries where people own guns (and believe me they get far less help than in some westernized countries). There are also TV hosts, and radio announcers who are for or against guns. There are Christians who are for and against. There are politicians that are for and against.

In every gun carrying society in the world there is a for and against argument, and there are gun crimes ....

(I am not talking about the various wars being fought all over the globe right now, I am talking about private citizens)

What there is not in every gun carrying society in the world is the now almost regular slaughter of schoolchildren on a large scale.

Now is not the time to deflect arguments, now is the time to act.

How? I don't know. But the problem runs deep and it is evil.

Hello Fez,

This is a concern.

Christians are vocal on issues concerning taxes, homosexual liberty, and abortion etc and protest to the government in these areas. What can the Christian expect from their government concerning this issue ?

Hi ninhao :mgcheerful:

yes christians are vocal on a lot off issues ninhao hear is a question i am going to leave was Jesus vocal ?

i have lived in certain suburbs were their was no crime and i have lived in suburbs were their have been crime their are people who like to live in what i call a bubble to say we have it good ninhao its as if some are avoiding to tell the truth or just love beating around the bush

look at what is going on know Australia is seen as a racist country their are Australians who show nothing but hate towards people from other countries look at what is going on in Melbourne with the recent attacks not just on the trains but bus two Australian women attacked two women from India their was no call for it ninhao

i am not an aussie i was born over seas i have been told not just by Australians but kiwis to go home one kiwi attacked me not physical but verbal stated i was a coward and could not hack it in my own country he wished the serbs had killed me and my family

their are issues this country is avoiding to deal with and by wishing for a gun free society its not going to stop the gangs or criminals from comiting crime or killing some one they will just find other ways to do this

their are radicals in this country and in other countries that love to blame america for what is going on in their countries i often here this in my wifes country ninhao

Jesus said to “give to Caesar [government] what belongs to Caesar” (Matthew 22:21). We are to pray for government leaders (1 Timothy 2:1-2) and honor them (1 Peter 2:13-17).

does god align himself with a politcal party are we to align with a polictal party or are we to be the salt of this earth the light to this world

this is what gets me remember pauline hanson ? lot off non belivers and christians agreed with what she had to say i find what pauline hanson had to say was very racist yet how can born again christians side with pauline hanson to were they agreed with what she had to say

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Hello Damo,

I am sorry you have received racist treatment in Australia. I know there are still people here who have deep ingrained "white australia" thinking.

Overall though we see Australia very differently. :D

I love this country and the majority of the people here are very multicultural minded. I think watching ACA will always bring sensationalist news and maybe it would be best to switch to ABC or SBS for more accurate current affairs.

I think it is ok to support a political party Damo and to petition them when we want something changed. I noticed you said before you didn't vote but I suggest you can bring change at the election if you do.

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Hello Damo,

I am sorry you have received racist treatment in Australia. I know there are still people here who have deep ingrained "white australia" thinking.

Overall though we see Australia very differently. :D

I love this country and the majority of the people here are very multicultural minded. I think watching ACA will always bring sensationalist news and maybe it would be best to switch to ABC or SBS for more accurate current affairs.

I think it is ok to support a political party Damo and to petition them when we want something changed. I noticed you said before you didn't vote but I suggest you can bring change at the election if you do.

Hi ninhao :)

yes we see Australia differently that does not mean i love Australia as much as an aussie does only news i watch is SBS i tend to avoid the other news stations

when it comes to voting i do but last one i was sick but what i notice with this goverment it picks on certain people like with the smokers and the overweight thinking its doing this group off people a favor by butting in but it avoids tackling the real issues Alcohol

Australia is a lucky country it has not experianced what other countries have i tend not to live in a bubble ninhao i feel sorry for what America is going through right know as a country it has done good around the globe

do not feel sorry as their are a lot off good Australians as well especially the ones i know in my church and at work

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Hello Damo,

I am sorry you have received racist treatment in Australia. I know there are still people here who have deep ingrained "white australia" thinking.

Overall though we see Australia very differently. :D

I love this country and the majority of the people here are very multicultural minded. I think watching ACA will always bring sensationalist news and maybe it would be best to switch to ABC or SBS for more accurate current affairs.

I think it is ok to support a political party Damo and to petition them when we want something changed. I noticed you said before you didn't vote but I suggest you can bring change at the election if you do.

see, theres the thing. everyone sees their own country differently, then outsiders. We often dont see it ourselves, I find many of the people in my home town very friendly-but ive heard complaints from those outside of town that theyre not. Some if it is probably legit-others is different peoples perception of friendly also differs, so part of it is the people coming in.

And to fez, comparing our crime rate to that of another country that banned guns-regardless of what country-isnt side stepping anything, its simply evidence of whether a gun ban will work or not. Just my two cents.

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We are all falling into the trappings of this debate. Gun control has nothing to do with crime, or trying to prevent it. And everything to do with disarming citizens, so the government can become more tyrannical without fear of armed rebellion.

At this point in time, the government of the united States pays little or no attention whatsoever to the will of the people (or the highest law of the land - the constitution).

It's only one more small step to disarm the people.

Why shouldn't it happen? America has become a nation of conceited, self-absorbed, pusillanimous sheep and we're proud of the brave new fascist police state we've constructed.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

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Austrailians have an opportunity to get a jump on another problem - Hammers!

WASHINGTON (CBS DC) – Annual FBI crime statistics show that more people are killed with clubs and hammers each year than by rifles or shotguns.

In 2011, there were 323 murders committed with a rifle but 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs. There were 356 murders in which a shotgun was the deadly weapon of choice.

For those of us in the U.S., do we have a right to carry hammers? If so, concealed carry or open carry only?

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Austrailians have an opportunity to get a jump on another problem - Hammers!

WASHINGTON (CBS DC) – Annual FBI crime statistics show that more people are killed with clubs and hammers each year than by rifles or shotguns.

In 2011, there were 323 murders committed with a rifle but 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs. There were 356 murders in which a shotgun was the deadly weapon of choice.

For those of us in the U.S., do we have a right to carry hammers? If so, concealed carry or open carry only?

It's my understanding that more are killed with body parts than rifles. Hands, feet and the like.....

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Austrailians have an opportunity to get a jump on another problem - Hammers!

It seems Australia already has the jump on America in this area.

Total murders in USA 2011 = 12,664 ( FBI crime statistics )

Population in USA = 311,591,917

= 1 in every 24,604 are murdered

Total murders in AUS 2010 = 260 ( Australian Institute of Crime)

Population of Australia( 2010) = 22,342,000

= 1 in every 85,930 are murdered

( the Australian number or 260 includes manslaughter. I’m not sure if the American standard is same )

In USA the murder rate is %249 higher than Australia.

Statistics are interesting tools.

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hate to burst your bubble, from your own government, apparently, assaults are up, robberies have remained roughly the same, and sexual assaults have actually gone up from 1996 through 2007. Kidnappings and homicide, both to low to really show well on the chart, but im not seeing a huge rate, of increase or decrease, all of .7 people.

http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime.html

now, thats just the government source, which basically says, banning guns made little to no difference, but we all know that all governments lie, so heres another non-government source

http://www.reasonorforce.com/2010/08/australian-gun-ban-facts-statistics.html

Now, lets look at this site, which shows accidental gun deaths have actually gone up, and while suicides involving guns have dropped, suicides not involving guns have gone up and down. Assaults have been fairly consistently going up. Now, as the article points out, it was going up at the exact same rate as it did before the gun buy back-so banning guns, again, made no difference. In fact the rates didnt start dropping until the last 2 years.

It also points out that homicides, both gun related, and non gun related, have been consistently dropping since 1986. The gun buyback, made no difference at all, in the homicide rate.

Overall conclusion? australias lower crime rate has nothing to do with whether the citizens have guns or not, which is further evidence, that guns are not the problem. Perhaps, Australias economy and culture isnt as violent in nature, I don't know, but the guns, or lack thereof, has made no difference in homicide rates. The one thing, that you can't argue, is that sexual assaults are on the up-those would be stopped by more women carrying weapons.

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/auresult.html

Fact is, whether Australias crime went off the map after the ban, or remained the same, either way, it proves that guns arnt the problem. Never were. And, theres more important reasons to own a gun then the crime rate-like the USes founding fathers intended, a armed citizen is the best safegaurd against a government turning to tyranny. And all governments will, at some time-all power save Gods power, will corrupt. Period. it has never failed. Difference is, a armed citizenry, can fight back. a unarmed citizenry, cannot.

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and you really think that guns are the only thing that would have an effect on that? Are our mental laws the same..... can parents in Australia get help when they see that their kids are mentally in trouble that the parents can't help or control? Are the movies and video games the same there as they are here? How about the gang and drug problems..... are they the same in Australia as they are here...... what other kinds of liberties have they given up besides guns.

Just looking at a set of numbers and not looking at the entire problem is not any kind of way to rationally try and solve the problem.

We have more people killed in the USA by our bare hands and feet than we do with rifles...... and hammers, clubs and bats are higher than that....... should we register all the ball bats and hammers in the USA.

What a person uses to kill someone with is really not what we should be looking at....... it's the who and the why and what can we do about them having the desire to do so that we need to be looking into........

Take the massacre that happened at the theatre in Colorado........ it was one of six or seven that the person who did it could have chosen....... he picked the "only" one that had no weapons signs posted..... and interestingly, all of our schools in America and most of the malls have the same rules. There are much worse weapons that these people can use besides an AR15's if they are of a mind to do mass murder.

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My bubble :D

It also points out that homicides, both gun related, and non gun related, have been consistently dropping since 1986. The gun buyback, made no difference at all, in the homicide rate.

Overall conclusion? australias lower crime rate has nothing to do with whether the citizens have guns or not....

This indicates that the Americans claiming crime has increased since Australia increased gun control are wrong.

Do you now agree ? :D

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not necessarily. Right now, the only statistics showing the rates are going down or staying level, are the governments. and I dont trust any government, farther then I can throw them, to give out any kind of accurate statistic on anything. I was just pointing out, that if they were accurate, that they still prove that guns arnt the problem. The actual crime rate, I suspect is going up, there are enough sources suggesting so. But the point is, guns arnt the problem. theyre not the problem in australia, theyre not the problem in the US. The problem, is the shooter. period. And, with the crime the way it is, I want my gun to protect myself.

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Might I suggest some good reading material for you

http://www.amazon.com/Statistics-Fourth-International-Student-Edition/dp/0393930432/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1357604692&sr=8-2&keywords=statistics+textbook

My bubble :D

It also points out that homicides, both gun related, and non gun related, have been consistently dropping since 1986. The gun buyback, made no difference at all, in the homicide rate.

Overall conclusion? australias lower crime rate has nothing to do with whether the citizens have guns or not....

This indicates that the Americans claiming crime has increased since Australia increased gun control are wrong.

Do you now agree ? :D

Might I suggest some good reading material for you...... http://www.amazon.com/Statistics-Fourth-International-Student-Edition/dp/0393930432/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1357604692&sr=8-2&keywords=statistics+textbook
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The problem appears to be Americans, at least several on this site, attempt to use Australian statistics to support their case. The Australian statistics don't do that.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but when using statistics to support this opinion they need to be carefully reviewed by a very discerning, and data understanding, mind. If the claimant doesn't do this they open themselves to lack of credibility and reduce the validity of their opinion.

Americans surely can stand on their own feet to argue their claim without misrepresenting another country.

Maybe they can't ?

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Might I suggest some good reading material for you...... http://www.amazon.co...istics textbook

Thank you Mr Other One. :D

You must be aware of the statistical trap people often run into when attempting to confirm their bias.

very much so..... and it bothers me when Senators, Representatives and News People fire up their agenda's when something like this happens in less than 5 minutes from the initial reporting of the incident. Then use sets of numbers that have a myriad of other cause and effects to further the agendas that they have been pushing for years.

They are using the death of 20 kids to push an agenda on the country that in any other time the country would not even consider it (and we haven't in the past years). And that is the second tragedy in this whole thing...... using the death of kids in such a way..... and they will be pushing for something quick before the shock of the thing wears off of the general public.... it's disgraceful.

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Might I suggest some good reading material for you...... http://www.amazon.co...istics textbook

Thank you Mr Other One. :D

You must be aware of the statistical trap people often run into when attempting to confirm their bias.

very much so..... and it bothers me when Senators, Representatives and News People fire up their agenda's when something like this happens in less than 5 minutes from the initial reporting of the incident. Then use sets of numbers that have a myriad of other cause and effects to further the agendas that they have been pushing for years.

They are using the death of 20 kids to push an agenda on the country that in any other time the country would not even consider it (and we haven't in the past years). And that is the second tragedy in this whole thing...... using the death of kids in such a way..... and they will be pushing for something quick before the shock of the thing wears off of the general public.... it's disgraceful.

Mr Other One,

I understand your complaint. You may also understand mine.

Not hours after the Sandy Hook event American gun activists started posting propaganda concerning Australia's failure in this area.

Similar ?

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Might I suggest some good reading material for you...... http://www.amazon.co...istics textbook

Thank you Mr Other One. :D

You must be aware of the statistical trap people often run into when attempting to confirm their bias.

very much so..... and it bothers me when Senators, Representatives and News People fire up their agenda's when something like this happens in less than 5 minutes from the initial reporting of the incident. Then use sets of numbers that have a myriad of other cause and effects to further the agendas that they have been pushing for years.

They are using the death of 20 kids to push an agenda on the country that in any other time the country would not even consider it (and we haven't in the past years). And that is the second tragedy in this whole thing...... using the death of kids in such a way..... and they will be pushing for something quick before the shock of the thing wears off of the general public.... it's disgraceful.

Mr Other One,

I understand your complaint. You may also understand mine.

Not hours after the Sandy Hook event American gun activists started posting propaganda concerning Australia's failure in this area.

Similar ?

Well considering my stand on the statistics of the whole thing, I'd have to say that I'd have to look a lot deeper into the Australia history. However I would have to agree that it was pretty quick that some did post pretty quickly about the Australia's failures...

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Well said, and worth the read. I wish more people would, its sound thinking by someone whos very well educated on the subject-I agree with the author, most people who are anti-gun, dont know anything about guns, either because theyve never been around them or are willingly ignorant, and make their minds up based on emotion, and not facts.

The following is a link to FBI statistical results of crime in the USA for the period of 2010. Figures for 2011 are lower and preliminary results for 2012 indicate lower still. However, figures for 2012 are incomplete at this time.

http://www.fbi.gov/a...les/10tbl15.xls

For those who don't have the time to fiddle with the link, here is a basic text version.

Totals 2010 - all agencies reporting

robbery

firearm 128,793

knife/cutting weapon 24,388

other weapon 27,170

strong arm 130,839

aggravated assault

firearm 138,403

knife/cutting weapon 127,857

other weapon 222,892

hands, fists, feet, etc. 185,029

comparison totals

robbery: firearm 128,793 total all other weapon types 182,397

assault: firearm 138,403 total all other weapon types 535,778

As I understand it, from a statistical point of view, there are two basic types of crime - property & personal.

According to the FBI site, definitions of aggravated assault vary from state to state, but for the most part it refers to an attack upon a person as opposed to robbery or theft of an object.

Submitted for your information.

it's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited by rjp34652
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