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What Kind of God Would Condemn People to Eternal Torment?

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#41
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Perhaps Jesus used a real occurance as the basis for a parable.
I have no doubt that the event really occured precisely as discribed.


Hello Willamina,

I have heard this idea before also concerning the parables of the Prodigal Son and the Good Samaritan.

#42
Butero

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I am not sure I would go so far as to say those calling this a parable are making Jesus out a liar, but having examined the story more closely, I do see your point. Jesus does go into great detail about the people, and even the fact that the rich man had 5 brothers. Thanks for your input. I do think you are correct, that this was something that really took place.


Hello Butero,

I am not convinced yet. The parables in Luke seem to be many and flow in some style of complete messages. In my 5 bible commentaries 4 of them identify the Rich Man and Lazarus also as a parable and 1 does not.

My commentaries are - Summarized Bible, Alfred Barnes' Notes on the Bible, The Bible Knowledge Commentary, John Gill's Exposition on the Entire Bible, ( say parable ), and Believers Bible commentary ( say real )

I am wondering why believing this story not to be a parable is important ?

The only reason I can think of why it would be important is if it is a real story, it shows in absolute terms a picture of hell next to paradise, and it eliminates all the crazy hidden messages people like to create with parables. It becomes black and white. To me, it shows a picture of hell regardless, and I don't have any problem with those who think it is a parable. I just saw the point Brother Mike was making, and I tend to think he is right. If it turns out that it is a parable, it doesn't matter to me. Jesus can set us all straight in the next life.

#43
warriorforJesus

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In answer to the title question....the kind of God who is unendingly patient, eternally loving and forever optimistic toward His creation. He gives everyone every opportunity to come to Him and forgives us for everything we do if we will only repent. The unrepentant and followers of satan have no place in His Kingdom. Hell is for those who reject Him and He is justified in sending them there.

Agreed. Basically those who blasphemy The Holy Spirit and like doing it, or who don't want anything to do with God (if they don't repent, into the fire they go.)

#44
AlexanderJ

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All the inhabitants of Heaven and Hell will have one thing in common - their minds will be made up completely and irrevocably.

#45
Butero

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Parables.

Every single Parable Jesus told, was a physical example of how the Kingdom of God works. The Parable shows how God the Father will respond, such as the man that sold the other man for debt owed, when His own lord forgave him.

Every single parable was how Natural things parallel the spiritual things. The sower sows the Word, the Unjust judge, the young son and older son.
No parable uses names, gives places, or real people, but is a parable on how things work, and what to expect.

Jesus said that Abraham said......................... (Concerning Hell)

This is no parable, there is no Lesson here about how a natural thing can describe a spiritual principle. Jesus is telling us about an actual event, and tells us exactly who was there, and what was said. Jesus makes no natural comparison to the spiritual. He describes it as it happened, and leaves nobody guessing that Hell is very real, full of fire, and torment. Abraham himself gave an account. What Abraham said is eternally written, his conversation with the rich man forever on record.

Jesus Is Lord.

One thing I find interesting about this is the fact that someone said he has 5 commentaries, and 4 say this is a parable, and 1 says it is something that really occured. There are a lot of people who form all their opinions based on commentaries. (I am not suggesting the person who brought commentaries into the conversation does that, just that people do that.) People don't realize that just because someone writes a commentary, that doesn't mean their opinion is always right. They make mistakes, just like the rest of us do. Here you have an example where 4 of 5 agree on something, but not all 100 percent are on the same page. Someone has to be wrong, and the majority is not always right.

#46
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One thing I find interesting about this is the fact that someone said he has 5 commentaries, and 4 say this is a parable, and 1 says it is something that really occured. There are a lot of people who form all their opinions based on commentaries. (I am not suggesting the person who brought commentaries into the conversation does that, just that people do that.) People don't realize that just because someone writes a commentary, that doesn't mean their opinion is always right. They make mistakes, just like the rest of us do. Here you have an example where 4 of 5 agree on something, but not all 100 percent are on the same page. Someone has to be wrong, and the majority is not always right.


The differing opinions in commentaries shows that respected people ( and people outside of this site ) do not agree on whether the Rich man and Lazarus is a parable. I am sure there are also more commentaries that say it is a real story than the one I own.

The point is I think that there is some good reason not to be convinced.

#47
Butero

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One thing I find interesting about this is the fact that someone said he has 5 commentaries, and 4 say this is a parable, and 1 says it is something that really occured. There are a lot of people who form all their opinions based on commentaries. (I am not suggesting the person who brought commentaries into the conversation does that, just that people do that.) People don't realize that just because someone writes a commentary, that doesn't mean their opinion is always right. They make mistakes, just like the rest of us do. Here you have an example where 4 of 5 agree on something, but not all 100 percent are on the same page. Someone has to be wrong, and the majority is not always right.


The differing opinions in commentaries shows that respected people ( and people outside of this site ) do not agree on whether the Rich man and Lazarus is a parable. I am sure there are also more commentaries that say it is a real story than the one I own.

The point is I think that there is some good reason not to be convinced.

I don't have any problem with either point of view. The point Jesus is making is clear either way.

#48
Parker1

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In the old testament peoples' sins were forgiven by God only through the sheading of blood. ( an animal sacrifice)

Not to be argumentative, but sin was never forgiven in the OT. The sacrifices were to cover the sin. When people died, they all went to hell, which had two sides. One was for those whom God considered "Rightous" where they awaited the Messiah, the atoning death of Christ; and the other side for those who were lost who suffered pain and torment. When Christ rose again and went to "sheol" he took those awaiting their "Savior" with Him into Heaven and the lost stayed in hell to await the Lake of Fire.

(quote) Parker
Not to be argumentative, but sin was never forgiven in the OT. The sacrifices were to cover the sin. When people died, they all went to hell, which had two sides

--------------------------------------------------
People that died all went to hell and hell had 2 sides .
Where is that in scripture ?

Check this out. Believe it or don't. I didn't base my comments on this article, but it is a good explanation of the Scriptures that teach me what I believe as Truth.

#49
Tinky

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Hades is God's "holding cell" for the lost. They will be there until the Great White Throne Judgment, when they will be judged by their works, then cast into the Lake of Fire.

#50
MorningGlory

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In the old testament peoples' sins were forgiven by God only through the sheading of blood. ( an animal sacrifice)

Not to be argumentative, but sin was never forgiven in the OT. The sacrifices were to cover the sin. When people died, they all went to hell, which had two sides. One was for those whom God considered "Rightous" where they awaited the Messiah, the atoning death of Christ; and the other side for those who were lost who suffered pain and torment. When Christ rose again and went to "sheol" he took those awaiting their "Savior" with Him into Heaven and the lost stayed in hell to await the Lake of Fire.

(quote) Parker
Not to be argumentative, but sin was never forgiven in the OT. The sacrifices were to cover the sin. When people died, they all went to hell, which had two sides

--------------------------------------------------
People that died all went to hell and hell had 2 sides .
Where is that in scripture ?

Check this out. Believe it or don't. I didn't base my comments on this article, but it is a good explanation of the Scriptures that teach me what I believe as Truth.


The article makes a lot of sense, Parker1.

#51
allofgrace

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No where does the God of the scriptures condemn anyone to hell at all, its their unbelief in Him sending His Son to reconcile the world unto Himself that gets them there and that is eternal condemnation.




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