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Catholicism, the Pope, Islam, and Chrislam?

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#1
JTC

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As many of you know I live in 1 of the disaster areas created by the super storm Sandy. We were hit hard, and for about 8 weeks I couldn't get online often, and when I could I was limited to how long I could stay online. Things have gotten better now. But during that time, I seem to remember a post saying the Pope is in favor of a 1 world government. Moreover, I think it said the Pope is also calling for a 1 world religion. The name suggested was Chrislam, which sounds like Christianity and Islam. Am I remembering this correctly, or is my mind playing tricks on me? If I am remembering correctly, what became of this idea?

Before the storm I was working in a place where there was a white Egyptian who was Muslim. Me and him were having some very good conversations comparing Islam to Christianity. I was surprised when he told me Muslims accept that Jesus was born to a virgin. In other words they accept that Jesus didn't have a human Father. I didn't know that, and I thought it might not be so hard to get this man to accept Jesus as the Son of God. Although when I asked my co-worker about this, his reply was God is a spiritual being who doesn't have sons, daughters, sisters or brothers. And then the boss sent him on a job, and I haven't seen him since. Thanks to Sandy I lost that job so I may never see this man again.

Granted there is approximately 20% of the Islam religion who are fanatical killers of anyone who isn't Islam. But the large majority of them are peaceful. I was also discussing this here with The Other. So Sandy hit and eventually I got online, and I thought I read what I said. If the Muslim people really believe Jesus didn't have a human father, maybe it would be possible to get them to realize Jesus was part of God before He became human, and that now He's still part of God but He has a glorified immortal body. Maybe this is what the Pope is thinking. I know I want to see peace on Earth from all religions. I would think the pope does too.

So does anyone know anything more about this?

John


#2
GoldenEagle

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A one world religion would never contain the truth as found in the Bible. Jesus is The Way, The Truth, and The Life. Nobody comes to the Father except through Him.

John 14:6

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

The Bible is alive and is a two-edged sword. There is no other truth apart from Jesus Christ.

Heb. 4:11-13
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.


A Muslim will never admit that Jesus Christ is God the Son on their own. This truth takes the Holy Spirit to open their eyes to. The “holy” Muslim teachings only allow for Allah to be god and Mohammad is his greatest prophet. Both are false as we know. Allah is not Jehovah God and Mohammad was a false prophet.

Do not be decieved. The only way that there will be one religion in the world is when Jesus Christ returns as predicted in God’s Word.

God bless,
GE


#3
BlessedByTheBest

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Hi John,

this is true. there are photos of the pope even kissing the Koran.

this is nothing more than the propagation of the agenda of the ecumenical movement.

there can be no true peace on earth between all religions. it will be a false peace.

a true Christian will refuse to accept that other religions praise the same God, even in accepting that Jesus Christ is the son of God.
and dare i say, a true Muslim will state that you are an infidel if you refuse to acknowledge Allah or Mohammed as a prophet of God.

as Scripture states, we must be wary of conforming to this world. even if the terms of peace seem uncompromising to our convictions, the underlying motive is to indoctrinate the world religions into a false global unity. it is written.

as an aside, remember who we are dealing with here.
a cursory glance at Roman Catholicism fruits speaks volumes.
the blind leading the blind.
the deceived dealing in deception.
the harlot church is not to be emulated or trusted.

i wish you could have spoken more with your ex-coworker and perhaps gotten down to the nitty gritty of his beliefs, like exactly who Jesus Christ was to him as a Muslim.

love to you.

#4
Sevenseas

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I was surprised when he told me Muslims accept that Jesus was born to a virgin. In other words they accept that Jesus didn't have a human Father.





Hmmmm....not so fast....he is only telling you what you want to hear

In the Qur'an and other Islamic sources, there is no mention of Joseph the carpenter, nor any recollection of the inn and manger legend. On the contrary, the Qur'an describes that Mary retreated from her people (outside the city), and gave birth to Jesus underneath a remote date palm tree. The tree miraculously provided nourishment for her during labor and birth. (See Chapter 19 of the Qur'an for the entire story. The chapter has aptly been named "The Chapter of Mary.")
However, the Qur'an repeatedly reminds us that Adam, the first human being, was born with neither a human mother nor a human father. Therefore, Jesus' miraculous birth affords him no higher standing or presumed partnership with God. When God ordains a matter, He merely says, "Be" and it is so. "The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam. He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be!" And he was" (3:59). In Islam, Jesus is regarded as a human prophet and messenger of God, not part of God Himself.


Muslims do not believe in Jesus the Christ as the Son of God as Christians do.

As for the pope and ecumenical movements, those are not of God. The peace this would inspire, would not engender
any type of freedom, but rather, that each individual had to believe one way...their way....and you can guess the rest

#5
other one

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Might I add to the discussion.

If you read "The Keys of this Blood" a book written by Father Malachi Martin, one can easily understand that John Paul II wanted a one world government and he wanted the Catholic church a big part of that. I don't remember of a forced one world religion, but control.

As for kissing the Koran, it is the custom of the Pope to kiss any gift he receives whether he even likes it or not. It's protocol just to be nice.


As for the peaceful Muslims, many are peaceful because not all are required to participate in any given Jihad. It is was also discovered in the HLN court case that the Muslim Brotherhood forbade any violence in the US until they get strong enough to make sure they could have victory. They know that they can't defeat the American People now, so they are carrying out a non violent jihad that is using our own system to bring down our government...... If they can manage to do that, then they will attempt a voilent Jihad to put the American people under Sharia Law (which is their driven agenda demanded by the Koran and Hadiths).

So, you are correct in seeing that right now there are a lot of Muslims that are seeming to be peaceful. They are also taught to lie to your face while they hate your guts when it comes to things mandated in the Koran.


I would suggest you read the Koran in the chronological order it was written (not the length of chapter) and understand that by its own teaching if there are discrepancies (and there are many) that the one written last abrogates the others. Read that and download and skim through "Reliance of the Traveller" which is the accepted English translation of Sharia Law.

This way you can read for yourself the dangers of a theocracy that is not compatible with the Constitution.

#6
OneLight

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What you are speaking of is called Chrislam and is a false faith, part of the Emergent Church with New Age beliefs that rid scripture of all that one side or the other does not agree with. We are warned that in the last days there will be this kind of teaching. It is one thing to have peace with others, and another to disregard scripture for peace's sake. Beware!

#7
FresnoJoe

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:thumbsup:

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

And Amen~!

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 2 John 2:22-23

#8
ayin jade

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Before the storm I was working in a place where there was a white Egyptian who was Muslim. Me and him were having some very good conversations comparing Islam to Christianity. I was surprised when he told me Muslims accept that Jesus was born to a virgin. In other words they accept that Jesus didn't have a human Father. I didn't know that, and I thought it might not be so hard to get this man to accept Jesus as the Son of God. Although when I asked my co-worker about this, his reply was God is a spiritual being who doesn't have sons, daughters, sisters or brothers. And then the boss sent him on a job, and I haven't seen him since. Thanks to Sandy I lost that job so I may never see this man again.


The quran states that Jesus was born an illegitmate son of Mary. Born of a human father whom muslims think was a roman soldier. His view is not the standard islamic view.

#9
JTC

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I honestly don't know how interested I am in reading the Qur'an. Before the storm I was trying to find an English version of the Qur'an online, and I couldn't. So if someone knows where one is, I'd like to look at it. I still don't know what is meant by Chrislam. If I google Chrislam would that help? I just want to know what this stuff is. I have no desire to become Islamic. I just want to be better educated on it because I don't think it's going to go away. As for me, I am Christian. I've always know Jesus is the Son of God.

Now here's another curiosity that some of you may know. In the past 2 months I watched the old movie, "The 10 Commandments". The one with Charston Heston playing Moses. In the movie once Moses finds out he's a Hebrew, he's banished from Egypt and sets out to cross a desert. He finally comes upon some people he stays with. In the movie the man who's tent Moses is staying in says he's a descendent of Ishmael. In the movie Moses marries one of the man's daughters. She tells Moses that God dwells on the nearby mountain. That's the mountain Moses climbs and he finds the burning bush which God speaks to him through. It's been a really long time since I read the account of Moses in the Bible. I do remember it was much different than the movie. So I'm wondering if the Bible says Moses was taken in by people who were descendants of Ishmael ? These are just curiosities for me. Does anyone know? If not it's no big deal to me.


#10
OneLight

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Look at my post above and click on the word Chrislam, which is underlined and a link to their website. The Qur'an can be found here ... http://www.wright-ho...slam/Quran.html

Hollywood is Hollywood. I did not find any such statement in scripture. Perhaps you can show me where he claims to be of the tribe of Ismael.

Exodus 2:11-25

Now it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out to his brethren and looked at their burdens. And he saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his brethren. So he looked this way and that way, and when he saw no one, he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand. And when he went out the second day, behold, two Hebrew men were fighting, and he said to the one who did the wrong, “Why are you striking your companion?”
Then he said, “Who made you a prince and a judge over us? Do you intend to kill me as you killed the Egyptian?”
So Moses feared and said, “Surely this thing is known!” When Pharaoh heard of this matter, he sought to kill Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh and dwelt in the land of Midian; and he sat down by a well.
Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters. And they came and drew water, and they filled the troughs to water their father’s flock. Then the shepherds came and drove them away; but Moses stood up and helped them, and watered their flock.
When they came to Reuel their father, he said, “How is it that you have come so soon today?”
And they said, “An Egyptian delivered us from the hand of the shepherds, and he also drew enough water for us and watered the flock.”
So he said to his daughters, “And where is he? Why is it that you have left the man? Call him, that he may eat bread.”
Then Moses was content to live with the man, and he gave Zipporah his daughter to Moses. And she bore him a son. He called his name Gershom, for he said, “I have been a stranger in a foreign land.”
Now it happened in the process of time that the king of Egypt died. Then the children of Israel groaned because of the bondage, and they cried out; and their cry came up to God because of the bondage. So God heard their groaning, and God remembered His covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob. And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God acknowledged them.

#11
other one

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Concerning Jesus birth from About.com

Question: Do Muslims believe in the virgin birth of Jesus?
Answer: Muslims believe that Jesus (called 'Isa in Arabic) was the son of Mary, and was conceived without the intervention of a human father. The Qur'an describes that an angel appeared to Mary, to announce to her the "gift of a holy son" (19:19). She was astonished at the news, and asked: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?" (19:20). When the angel explained to her that she had been chosen for the service of God, and that God had ordained the matter, she devoutly submitted herself to His will.
In the Qur'an and other Islamic sources, there is no mention of Joseph the carpenter, nor any recollection of the inn and manger legend. On the contrary, the Qur'an describes that Mary retreated from her people (outside the city), and gave birth to Jesus underneath a remote date palm tree. The tree miraculously provided nourishment for her during labor and birth. (See Chapter 19 of the Qur'an for the entire story. The chapter has aptly been named "The Chapter of Mary.")
However, the Qur'an repeatedly reminds us that Adam, the first human being, was born with neither a human mother nor a human father. Therefore, Jesus' miraculous birth affords him no higher standing or presumed partnership with God. When God ordains a matter, He merely says, "Be" and it is so. "The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam. He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be!" And he was" (3:59). In Islam, Jesus is regarded as a human prophet and messenger of God, not part of God Himself.
Muslims observe two holidays per year, which are associated with major religious observances (fasting and pilgrimage). They do not revolve around the life or death of any human being, including prophets. While some Muslims observe the Prophet Muhammad's birthday, this practice is not universally accepted among Muslims. Therefore, most Muslims do not find it acceptable to celebrate or acknowledge the "birthday" of Jesus either.


http://islam.about.c...jesus_birth.htm


Basically the koran says that God spoke it and it was....

#12
JTC

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Hi Folks,

I have a temporary Internet Hookup. Verizon said it's free because they can't get their Fios cable in my building yet. I am limited to what I can do and how long I can stay online. I was able to get to the link Other One provided, but I can't get to the link OneLight provided.

I feel I must keep mentioning I'm in a disaster zone. Due to lack of money I haven't had TV in over 2 years. So I'm just trying to find out what's going on. I didn't vote for Obama but I see he's president again.

Last night I found a web site saying Obama isn't American born and he grew up part Islam and part Christian. But anyone can put anything on the Web they want to. Nevertheless, it seems this may be true.

So then I googled Chrislam and I found a man in Nigeria who already has a church he calls Chrislam. He said they use Christian and Muslim prayers in their worship. So the point of that is this thing called Chrislam already exists. My memory is poor these days. But it sounded like for those people in Nigeria, that their choice was merging the 2 religions, as Chrislam, or being at war with each other. I think anyone who prefers war over peace, is not really of God.

I also think there is only 1 true God. I think He exists, and the rest are fallen angels.

I think the fallen angels have been playing mankind for fools, those who will listen to them. In the USA I think this is the people of the New Age. They're following fallen angels, and some people are even in communication with them.

There are some things that bother me. Going way back to Hagar and Ishmael, why would our God send them away to be consumed by devils. That bothers me.

Moving forward, it bothers me that the apostles acted and wrote as if Jesus would be back in their lifetimes, and that didn't happen. They should have known that. What did happen is the history of man we were all taught. Originally there was 1 Christian church, and I think it's what we call Catholicism today. But then it broke off to form a Protestant church. As time went on, and as Europeans came to America, we wound up with so many Christian denominations I can't count them. Each group thinking and believing that they have the one and only real truth that will get you to Heaven.

This is what was going on 25 years ago when I stopped trying to even associate with Christians. But God and the commandments of the Bible stayed in me. Written in my heart. My life changed radically 12 years ago when I lost my only blood family. I was then alone and in grief for 2 years. I then started to look for true Christians because based on the Bible, these people should be my family. But I didn't find them. Instead I find Christians doing what everyone else does, and constantly bickering with each other. So we who call ourselves Christians have failed to stay together as one group,and we have failed to live our lives different from the rest of the world. And I saw this coming from about 20 years ago. I used to tell my 1 blood relative about this. I also said, if we as Christians can't even agree with each other, but we all bicker over who is saved and who isn't, what will happen when another religion challenges us as Christians? Well here we have it today. I just never thought the challenge would come from Islamic people because I never knew how numerous they were.

We have problems folks, and very serious problems.

What I did was to say, anyone who accepts Jesus as Son of God and believes He died for us, is a Christian. I discounted water baptism, and all the other things that separate the denominations. So also if one group prays in tongues, fine. If another group doesn't, that's also fine. All are still Christians.

But the other thing I thought was obvious is we are supposed to be obeying God. And way too many people who call themselves Christians are not. For example, yesterday a sales clerk handed me back $1 too much change. I gave it back to her, and I need it. But that's being dishonest and I believe God sees what I do. I'm very poor. But if I see a penny, nickel, dime or quarter in the street, and I know it's a neighborhood with people poorer than me, I leave it there. If it's an affluent neighborhood I'll pick it up. I know Jesus said something to this effect.

If we call ourselves Christians we better start to live that way too. Otherwise before you know it there will be Chrislam churches in every town. Or something worse may happen. We have to stop bickering over details and love each other as Jesus loved us. My years on this planet may soon be over. So I wrote all this for you younger people.

John


#13
Cobalt1959

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Last night I found a web site saying Obama isn't American born and he grew up part Islam and part Christian. But anyone can put anything on the Web they want to. Nevertheless, it seems this may be true.


Obama was schooled in Indonesia as a Muslim. His claims to be a Christian did not appear until he ran for the presidency. Examining his fruit, as we are instructed to within the Bible shows us that he could not be a Christian. Examining his actions reveals that, at the very least, he has very strong Muslim sympathies.

So then I googled Chrislam and I found a man in Nigeria who already has a church he calls Chrislam. He said they use Christian and Muslim prayers in their worship. So the point of that is this thing called Chrislam already exists. My memory is poor these days. But it sounded like for those people in Nigeria, that their choice was merging the 2 religions, as Chrislam, or being at war with each other. I think anyone who prefers war over peace, is not really of God.



Chrislam, as OneLight said, is part of the Emergent Church. It is a really bad amalgam of an outward form of Christianity and Islam. The Emergent Church is an off-shoot of the New Age junk, but it basically tosses out anything the people in it don't like within the Bible and keeps the stuff they like, and every Emergent Church adherent says something different.

Moving forward, it bothers me that the apostles acted and wrote as if Jesus would be back in their lifetimes, and that didn't happen. They should have known that. What did happen is the history of man we were all taught. Originally there was 1 Christian church, and I think it's what we call Catholicism today. But then it broke off to form a Protestant church. As time went on, and as Europeans came to America, we wound up with so many Christian denominations I can't count them. Each group thinking and believing that they have the one and only real truth that will get you to Heaven.



The Apostles thought Jesus would come back in their lifetime because that is what they hoped would happen. Jesus never taught this, and even the Apostles never taught this concept either, they simply taught to expect Jesus to return at any time and be prepared for His return spiritually, because it could happen at anytime and one does not know when.

The original church was the original apostolic church. The Catholic church bears absolutely no relationship to the 1st century Apostolic church. If Peter, or Paul, or John, or any other of the original Apostles were able to stand in front of a Catholic Cathedral today, or see the Pope, they might ask what they were looking at, and if they were told that this was a "Church" they would not recognize it as such, and doctrinally, their heads would explode, because doctrinally, it isn't even close.

The thing that we know as the Catholic Church did not have any kind of form until the 4th century when Constantine made "christianity" the state religion. It is at this point that this form of the "church" eradicated any kind of Jewish roots and became something totally different and far, far removed from the original apostolic church. And that has only grown worse over time. You have the Reformation in the 16th century as an attempt to take true Christianity back to its original apostolic roots, but it fell far short of it's mark, especially in terms of eschatology. Protestantism is an attempt to return to apostolic roots, not divide into more and more smaller Christian sects.

If you are talking about the actual church, very, very few of them teach that they are the only church and you have to be a member of it to be saved. That type of teaching is one of the classic earmarks of a cult, and is taught by Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists and Mormons.

#14
JTC

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Thanks Cobalt,

I knew some of that, but not all of it. I'm just a poor middle aged man trying to live what's left of my life in as much obedience to Jesus/God/The Bible as I can.

You said 1 thing I'd like you to enlarge on. What is the Emergent Church? I looked up the word emergence and I thought I knew. But now I think I was wrong because what you're saying makes it sound like the Emergent Church is a real church where real people go, and I mean here in the USA? Is this so?

When I last was trying to join a church was approximately 1990. Back then each denomination was claiming their's was the only real truth. Although the church I was in was starting to see the light. The pastor became nervous 1 day and said God has been telling Him something for so long now he has to tell us. He said, this truth is that all men are brothers, and that there will be people in Heaven that up to then, we would have not thought so. And this knowledge was also coming to me. But then purely personal problems caused me to stop going to any churches.

So I believe this, anyone who believes and accepts Jesus as Lord and savior of their life is a Christian. Although now I have to add that the person also has to be trying to live as Jesus said. To me this means many things too many church going people do regularly. So a few examples are no cussing, and certainly no using God's name in vain. But it also means no tattoos, and no sex outside of marriage. I mean slip ups are one thing, but too many young people live as if he who has sex with the most number of girls wins. If a man or woman lives that way I don't think they're a Christian, regardless of what they believe. The only exceptions is if they don't know what they are doing is wrong. I know the Bible says something like: to him who knows a sin is a sin, it shall be counted as one, but to him who doesn't know a certain sin is a sin it will not be held against him. Something like that. We have so much poor teaching nowadays that many young people may not know they are sinning. Anyway...

Can you explain this Emergent church better? What I mean is if I walked past one, would I know, and how?

#15
Cobalt1959

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Thanks Cobalt,

I knew some of that, but not all of it. I'm just a poor middle aged man trying to live what's left of my life in as much obedience to Jesus/God/The Bible as I can.

You said 1 thing I'd like you to enlarge on. What is the Emergent Church? I looked up the word emergence and I thought I knew. But now I think I was wrong because what you're saying makes it sound like the Emergent Church is a real church where real people go, and I mean here in the USA? Is this so?

When I last was trying to join a church was approximately 1990. Back then each denomination was claiming their's was the only real truth. Although the church I was in was starting to see the light. The pastor became nervous 1 day and said God has been telling Him something for so long now he has to tell us. He said, this truth is that all men are brothers, and that there will be people in Heaven that up to then, we would have not thought so. And this knowledge was also coming to me. But then purely personal problems caused me to stop going to any churches.

So I believe this, anyone who believes and accepts Jesus as Lord and savior of their life is a Christian. Although now I have to add that the person also has to be trying to live as Jesus said. To me this means many things too many church going people do regularly. So a few examples are no cussing, and certainly no using God's name in vain. But it also means no tattoos, and no sex outside of marriage. I mean slip ups are one thing, but too many young people live as if he who has sex with the most number of girls wins. If a man or woman lives that way I don't think they're a Christian, regardless of what they believe. The only exceptions is if they don't know what they are doing is wrong. I know the Bible says something like: to him who knows a sin is a sin, it shall be counted as one, but to him who doesn't know a certain sin is a sin it will not be held against him. Something like that. We have so much poor teaching nowadays that many young people may not know they are sinning. Anyway...

Can you explain this Emergent church better? What I mean is if I walked past one, would I know, and how?


In concept, as I explained to me DIL the other night, churches that are "off" are not going to be difficult to recognize, in most cases, because they will always embrace and espouse something that might mention Christ, but will point you away from him. And point you to someone or something else. The Emergent Church points you to this all-encompassing "love" that supposedly exists everywhere and within everyone and that you can tap into. And you don't need Jesus to do it. Sure, He was a great guy, but he wasn't really born of a Virgin, and all that sin stuff is way exaggerated and you don't really need to make any changes in your life. It is things like that which the Emergent church teaches, and yes, there are real churches in America that are Emergent and people attend. People like Rick Warren and Joel Osteen are on the outer fringes of the Emergent Church movement. Emergent Church is New Age theology wrapped in a psuedo Christian "shell." In other words, they incorporate some christian-speak in their doctrine and discourses, but it is way light on sin, repentance, and righteous living, and long on secular junk. And it always down-plays the importance of a personal relationship with Christ and relying on Him, solely for any life-changing work. Lately, the Emergent Church is re-labeling itself as something called "progressive" Christianity.

The problem with Christianity is it's simplicity. As you said, anyone who accepts Jesus as their Savior, repents of their sins, asks God for forgiveness and turns their life over to Jesus for spiritual regeneration is saved, as long as they are sincere. There is no magic formula to follow to achieve that. You do not have to go to a certain church. You do not have to follow a set of codified rules and regulations beyond what is found in the Bible. You do not have to be baptized or speak in tongues or go to church on a certain day, or confess your sins to a priest. But simplicity scares people, because people want a measuring stick. They want to know they are achieving something by what they do. So they will add stuff to the simple concept to enable themselves to measure their salvation by what they are doing. Or not doing. I am not sleeping around, and I am knocking on doors handing out tracts every day, so I must be OK. I went to mass. I'm not drinking caffeine. This gives them something they can measure, and that is attractive to a lot of people. But being saved is never about what we do, it is always about what Jesus has already done, and many people just can't wrap their head around that, so they buy into the false trap that you can earn your salvation in a pay-as-you-go plan.

#16
ayin jade

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Emergent church is those who follow someone like Brian McLaren who is "reinventing Christ" by his own words.


Some of his quotes. You can find much more out there about mclaren and others of the emergent church. It is another gospel.


"I don't think we've got the gospel right yet. What does it mean to be 'saved'?.... I don't think the liberals have it right. But I don't think we have it right either. None of us has arrived at orthodoxy."
––Brian McLaren, The Emergent Mystique, Christianity Today, 2004


“The Christian faith, I am proposing, should become (in the name of Jesus Christ) a welcome friend to other religions of the world, not a threat”
--Brian McLaren, A Generous Orthodoxy McLaren, p.254


"Tony [Campolo] and I might disagree on the details, but I think we are both trying to find an alternative to both traditional Universalism and the narrow, exclusivist understanding of hell [that unless you explicitly accept and follow Jesus, you are excluded from eternal life with God and destined for hell]."
--Brian McLaren’s Inferno 2, Out of Ur, May 2006


"...many Hindus are willing to consider Jesus as a legitimate manifestation of the divine... many Buddhists see Jesus as one of humanity’s most enlightened people.... A shared reappraisal of Jesus’ message could provide a unique space or common ground for urgently needed religious dialogue—and it doesn’t seem an exaggeration to say that the future of our planet may depend on such dialogue. This reappraisal of Jesus’ message may be the only project capable of saving a number of religions."
––Brian McLaren, The Secret Message of Jesus, p. 7


"What if Jesus' secret message reveals a secret plan?".... What if he didn't come to start a new religion--but rather came to start a political, social, religious, artistic, economic, intellectual, and spiritual revolution that would give birth to a new world?"
––Brian McLaren, The Secret Message of Jesus, p. 4

"Ask me if Christianity (my version of it, yours, the Pope's, whoever's) is orthodox, meaning true, and here's my honest answer: a little, but not yet. Assuming by Christianity you mean the Christian understanding of the world and God, Christian opinions on soul, text, and culture I'd have to say that we probably have a couple of things right, but a lot of things wrong, and even more spreads before us unseen and unimagined. But at least our eyes are open! To be a Christian in a generously orthodox way is not to claim to have the truth captured, stuffed, and mounted on the wall."
––Brian McLaren, A Generous Orthodoxy, p. 293

"Perhaps our ‘inward-turned, individual-salvation-oriented, un-adapted Christianity’ is a colossal and tragic misunderstanding, and perhaps we need to listen again for the true song of salvation, which is ‘good news to all creation.’ So perhaps it’s best to suspend what, if anything, you ‘know’ about what it means to call Jesus ‘Savior’ and to give the matter of salvation some fresh attention. Let’s start simply. In the Bible, save means ‘rescue’ or ‘heal’. It emphatically does not mean ‘save from hell’ or ‘give eternal life after death,’ as many preachers seem to imply in sermon after sermon. Rather its meaning varies from passage to passage, but in general, in any context, save means ‘get out of trouble.’ The trouble could be sickness, war, political intrigue, oppression, poverty, imprisonment, or any kind of danger or evil."
––Brian McLaren, A Generous Orthodoxy, p. 93

"I must add, though, that I don't believe making disciples must equal making adherents to the Christian religion. It may be advisable in many circumstances to help people become followers of Jesus and remain within their Buddhist, Hindu, or Jewish contexts."
---Brian McLaren, A Generous Orthodoxy, p. 260

"I am a Christian because I believe that, in all these ways, Jesus is saving the world. By “world” I mean planet Earth and all life on it, because left to ourselves, un-judged, un-forgiven, and un-taught, we will certainly destroy this planet and its residents. And by “the world” I specifically mean human history, because again, it was and is in danger, grave danger, ultimate danger, self-imposed danger, and I don’t believe anyone else can rescue it.”
---Brian McLaren, A Generous Orthodoxy, p. 97

"This is as good a place as any to apologize for my use of masculine pronouns for God in the previous sentence. You'll notice that wherever I can, I avoid the use of masculine pronouns for God because they can give the false impression to many people today that the Christian God is a male deity." McLaren, Brian, A Generous Orthodoxy, Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 2004 p.74

"[T]his is one of the huge problems with the traditional understanding of hell, because if the Cross is in line with Jesus' teaching, then I won't say the only and I certainly won't say ... or even the primary or a primary meaning of the Cross ... is that the Kingdom of God doesn't come like the kingdoms of this world by inflicting violence and coercing people. But that the kingdom of God comes thru suffering and willing voluntary sacrifice right? But in an ironic way the doctrine of hell basically says no, that's not really true. At the end God get's his way thru coercion and violence and intimidation and uh domination just like every other kingdom does. The Cross isn't the center then, the Cross is almost a distraction and false advertising for God."


#17
His_disciple3

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I honestly don't know how interested I am in reading the Qur'an. Before the storm I was trying to find an English version of the Qur'an online, and I couldn't. So if someone knows where one is, I'd like to look at it. I still don't know what is meant by Chrislam. If I google Chrislam would that help? I just want to know what this stuff is. I have no desire to become Islamic. I just want to be better educated on it because I don't think it's going to go away. As for me, I am Christian. I've always know Jesus is the Son of God.

Now here's another curiosity that some of you may know. In the past 2 months I watched the old movie, "The 10 Commandments". The one with Charston Heston playing Moses. In the movie once Moses finds out he's a Hebrew, he's banished from Egypt and sets out to cross a desert. He finally comes upon some people he stays with. In the movie the man who's tent Moses is staying in says he's a descendent of Ishmael. In the movie Moses marries one of the man's daughters. She tells Moses that God dwells on the nearby mountain. That's the mountain Moses climbs and he finds the burning bush which God speaks to him through. It's been a really long time since I read the account of Moses in the Bible. I do remember it was much different than the movie. So I'm wondering if the Bible says Moses was taken in by people who were descendants of Ishmael ? These are just curiosities for me. Does anyone know? If not it's no big deal to me.



as the internet, so goes our old informational source the TV, Psssst don't believe everything you see or hear on TV,

Exo_3:1
Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb. Exo_18:9 And Jethro rejoiced for all the goodness which the LORD had done to Israel, whom he had delivered out of the hand of the Egyptians.

Exo_18:10
And Jethro said, Blessed be the LORD, who hath delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of Pharaoh, who hath delivered the people from under the hand of the Egyptians.
Exo_18:12
And Jethro, Moses' father in law, took a burnt offering and sacrifices for God: and Aaron came, and all the elders of Israel, to eat bread with Moses' father in law before God.

#18
Massorite

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As many of you know I live in 1 of the disaster areas created by the super storm Sandy. We were hit hard, and for about 8 weeks I couldn't get online often, and when I could I was limited to how long I could stay online. Things have gotten better now. But during that time, I seem to remember a post saying the Pope is in favor of a 1 world government. Moreover, I think it said the Pope is also calling for a 1 world religion. The name suggested was Chrislam, which sounds like Christianity and Islam. Am I remembering this correctly, or is my mind playing tricks on me? If I am remembering correctly, what became of this idea?

Before the storm I was working in a place where there was a white Egyptian who was Muslim. Me and him were having some very good conversations comparing Islam to Christianity. I was surprised when he told me Muslims accept that Jesus was born to a virgin. In other words they accept that Jesus didn't have a human Father. I didn't know that, and I thought it might not be so hard to get this man to accept Jesus as the Son of God. Although when I asked my co-worker about this, his reply was God is a spiritual being who doesn't have sons, daughters, sisters or brothers. And then the boss sent him on a job, and I haven't seen him since. Thanks to Sandy I lost that job so I may never see this man again.

Granted there is approximately 20% of the Islam religion who are fanatical killers of anyone who isn't Islam. But the large majority of them are peaceful. I was also discussing this here with The Other. So Sandy hit and eventually I got online, and I thought I read what I said. If the Muslim people really believe Jesus didn't have a human father, maybe it would be possible to get them to realize Jesus was part of God before He became human, and that now He's still part of God but He has a glorified immortal body. Maybe this is what the Pope is thinking. I know I want to see peace on Earth from all religions. I would think the pope does too.

So does anyone know anything more about this?

John

Apparently you have never read the Quran. One can not pick and choose what they want to believe out of the bible and have thier integrety intact as a Christian and the same goes for a Muslim. If a Muslim claims to be a peaceful Muslim he/she is a bad Muslim and does not live exactly as the Quran say they should be living. According to the Quran Islam is to be spread by any means and that everybody who does not believe is worthy of being killed. Muslims do believe that Jesus was a prophet who was born of a virgin but they do not believe that he was divine and if you were to tell a Muslim that Jesus was God or an extention of God, that Muslim should be ready to kill you on the spot because it is considered to be blasphame to say things like that and the punishment for blasphame in the Quran is death.
Muslims also believe that Jesus is going to return a Muslim and break the cross/Christianity and kill all of the swine/jews. Jesus is mentioned 100+ times in the Quran and it even says that Jesus once picked up some dirt, spit in it, fashioned a bird out of the mud, blew his breath on the bird and the bird came to life and flew away. The Quran also say that Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead but he was no more than a prophet of God, The Quran teaches that there is only one god who has no helpers like the Son or the Holy Spirit. But at the same time when speaking of Allah the Quran in many verses speaks of Allah as "We" in the plural. If you were to ask a Muslim why the Quran speaks of Allah as if there are more than one they would not be able to give you a logical answer because they do not have one.
I could go on for a long time but I will tell you this. Never go to a Muslim talking "Jesus Son of God who gave his life for you" because you will get nowhere. They consider that kind of talk to be Blasphames and it makes them angry.

#19
Sevenseas

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I could go on for a long time but I will tell you this. Never go to a Muslim talking "Jesus Son of God who gave his life for you" because you will get nowhere. They consider that kind of talk to be Blasphames and it makes them angry.



Whatever happened to "For God so loved the world" and "whosoever will"? I watched a vid not long ago put out by an organization
that reaches Muslims and the founder is a Muslim who converted to Christ. I would gladly give the name and where it could be seen
but I watched it in someone else's home and do not know the source.

​ Fortunately, God is the one who saves through Christ. At any rate, is there something wrong with JTC witnessing? He came here to find out
more. I think he prob has a lot more info now to make decisions.

To state he or anyone else should never approach a Muslim (pagan, witch, devil worshipper) reveals, IMO, the exact same type of attitude
that you accuse Muslims of having. God can and does save anyone. Just not everyone.


#20
GoldenEagle

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I could go on for a long time but I will tell you this. Never go to a Muslim talking "Jesus Son of God who gave his life for you" because you will get nowhere. They consider that kind of talk to be Blasphames and it makes them angry.


Whatever happened to "For God so loved the world" and "whosoever will"? I watched a vid not long ago put out by an organization
that reaches Muslims and the founder is a Muslim who converted to Christ. I would gladly give the name and where it could be seen
but I watched it in someone else's home and do not know the source.

​ Fortunately, God is the one who saves through Christ. At any rate, is there something wrong with JTC witnessing? He came here to find out
more. I think he prob has a lot more info now to make decisions.

To state he or anyone else should never approach a Muslim (pagan, witch, devil worshipper) reveals, IMO, the exact same type of attitude
that you accuse Muslims of having. God can and does save anyone. Just not everyone.


I agree Seven. :thumbsup: The following passage comes to mind.

Matt. 9:13
"But go and learn what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

God bless,
GE




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