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Do you believe in the Trinity? Why?

* * * * * 1 votes Trinity God the Father God the Son God the Holy Spirit

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#1
GoldenEagle

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This originally was from this discussion: http://www.worthychr.../page__st__20

Do you believe in the Trinity? If so, why? If not, why?

Biblical backing is always appreciated. Looking forward to a good discussion. :thumbsup:

God bless,
GE

#2
Sevenseas

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yes...but to quote someone else as it appeared in another thread and because I know what this one is about,

Posted Image

absolutely no disrespect intended, but if you find it inappropriate, I'll delete it

would also like to see a thread on Job one of these days...that would be interesting too

Will contribute as things develop

#3
sheya joie

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I tried out a church a while back where the preacher kept saying that the concept of the Trinity was 'a lie from the pit of Hell.' But he never explained why, and I stopped going there.

I know the term Trinity never appears in Scripture, but Jesus spoke of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. And right at the beginning in Genesis, when God speaks, He calls Himself 'us' -- 'Let us make man in Our image' and so forth.

'Hear, O Israel, the Lord your God, the Lord is one' uses repetition that speaks of God three times, and ends with a word for 'one' that means 'unity,' being the same word that is used to refer to a man and his wife being 'one.'

And then there's this from the Proverbs:

Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?


This speaks of one who can do things that only God can do, and then points out that He has a Son.

I see evidence of the Trinity scattered all through Scripture. Much too much there for me to ignore.

#4
Jayyycuuup

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I tried out a church a while back where the preacher kept saying that the concept of the Trinity was 'a lie from the pit of Hell.' But he never explained why, and I stopped going there.

I know the term Trinity never appears in Scripture, but Jesus spoke of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. And right at the beginning in Genesis, when God speaks, He calls Himself 'us' -- 'Let us make man in Our image' and so forth.

'Hear, O Israel, the Lord your God, the Lord is one' uses repetition that speaks of God three times, and ends with a word for 'one' that means 'unity,' being the same word that is used to refer to a man and his wife being 'one.'

And then there's this from the Proverbs:

Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?


This speaks of one who can do things that only God can do, and then points out that He has a Son.

I see evidence of the Trinity scattered all through Scripture. Much too much there for me to ignore.


I agree! :thumbsup:

Funny as I just got done using that verse from Deuteronomy (6:4) :)

#5
Jayyycuuup

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Also to add something to what has already been said. I believe that people put too much emphasis between the relationship of God. They are looking to uphold one above the other, no where in scripture will you find this, so I have no idea where, how, or why this came about.

Hebrews 1:8
But to the Son He says;
"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom."

I think it's important to note just how He is spoken to. Defined and called, God. To me, that is very important to remember. Jesus is God. He in the Father, and the Father in Him.

#6
FresnoJoe

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My LORD And My God~!

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: Deuteronomy 6:4-6

~

From: http://www.worthychr.../page__st__20


Jesus Christ and God the Father were One (John 10:30) – part of the Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) of God. Do you believe God is Three in One?

This would be a bad place to go into this. You should know I don't believe Jesus is 1/3 of a god. Nor do I buy into him being a egg yoke, the whole egg being called a god. He is fully 100% God, The King of Kings, and Lord, and head of the Church, The "I AM". He is not his father. He stands on his own, and all dominion has been given to him.

Do you believe in the Trinity? If so, why? If not, why?


It

And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces. In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: Genesis 15:17-18

Just

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Isaiah 44:6

Seems

For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. Isaiah 54:5

So Clear To Me

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

And Yet Many Folk I Love And Cherish Just Can't See God As I Do

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Matthew 16-17

So I Pray, LORD Let Them See Jesus Wherever They Turn

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:10-14

And I Leave The Revelations Of God To GOD

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Matthew 16-17

Father, SON And Holy Ghost

No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1 John 4:12-15

#7
joi

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A couple of write-ups on this subject

http://whatdoesthebi...out-the-trinity

http://whatdoesthebi...deity-of-christ

#8
Leonard

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Well, the attributes of personality are mind, will, emotion, and activity.

In the Scriptures we see the Father spoken of as possessing all 4 attributes. He is therefore a person.
Like with the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

And since they are all spoken of as doing things in the believer's life SIMULTANEOUSLY, it is a little hard to argue against a Trinitarian position in any serious, scholarly and biblical way.............

#9
BlessedByTheBest

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i believe the Trinity can be most plainly identified in the heart of the Gospel itself.

without touching on John the Baptist's missionary work..
in the book of Acts, we are given an inside look at how the Gospel was expressed through the Apostles themselves, and there are passages that specifically address how we as believers become born-again.(chapters 8, 19)
the 3 aspects of conversion and regeneration refer to the God-head, and it thus makes the Trinitarian position obvious:


a repentance of our sins granted and accepted by God, by faith.
believing in our Lord Jesus Christ as the Son of God and His work on the cross/resurrection, along with the subsequent baptism(death/burial with Jesus, and resurrection with Christ)...by faith.
and the reception of the Holy Spirit now indwelling...by faith.

Triune goodness, at work.
All 3 are God: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, each with a specific purpose as willed by and through the Father.

the Christian life begins with a Trinity, a relationship with all 3 persons...or at least every new Christian life, should.


love to you, GE. :heart:

Edited by BlessedByTheBest, 28 January 2013 - 10:10 PM.


#10
OneLight

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The word God is a title. God is not the name of the Father, the Son nor the Holy Spirit. God is one is true, for the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one in every way.

#11
BlessedByTheBest

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Problems with Trinity Concept: (Without tons of scriptures and yak, yak, and teaching this or that)


i face-palmed and laughed out loud..thank you Mike, i needed that brother. :biggrin2:
im going to respond to your points, although i know your post was not directed at me.



1) None of the Disciples or writers of the NT Recognized the concept. They always separated God the Father and the son Lord Jesus. This is one of the problematic areas for Trinity believers.

i will concede insofar as that the concept cannot be plainly gleaned from Scripture before the book of Acts(after Christ's death, the Comforter having arrived). but most arguments fail to properly combat the doctrine of Trinity when the verses brought forth are properly put in context.


2) Trinity Doctrine sheds bad light on the KJV. The KJV turned around a few Greek Words and mistranslated two, added whole text to one scripture to support the Doctrine. Most other translations don't get these wrong, but fail in other areas as I believe the KJV is the best to study out of.

could you please share some Scripture and perhaps some "yak yak" so we can at least possibly come to some unity in thought concerning the "bad light" in this translation?


3) Trinity Doctrine Makes Jesus 1/3 of a god. Since there is only ONE GOD made of 3 different pieces, Jesus looses any Full God status.

this is a flawed perspective. is it yours, or what you believe Trinity doctrine to be?
this makes me wonder if you truly have an understanding of it. could you please share how you come to this conclusion?


4) Trinity Doctrine removes man from God's family. The Eternal Godhead as it's called only holds 3. The Son, Father, and Holy Spirit. The Scripture actually says we are part of the God Head Bodily, working with and for the Kingdom of God, as Children of God.

this is false. born-again believers are the body of Christ, so we are very much part of God's family, through Jesus Christ our Lord. would you agree?
i would assume yes by your last statement here...but can't be sure.
could you please share the Scripture so we can put it in proper context?



5) Trinity Doctrine Makes Jesus an Icon, and not someone anyone could possibly be like. The all knowing, all seeing God while on Earth. That removes are greatest example on the planet and any possibility to be Like Jesus. Jesus said it is enough to be like the Master, and John said as He is, so are we in this World. So Trinity Doctrine fails there.

this is a flawed perspective. is it yours, or what you believe Trinity doctrine to be?
Jesus is an icon as the exemplary Son of God. you said it yourself, we strive to be like Him. not actually Be Him, which can only be achieved together as a body which we have yet to see the fullness of.
God in the flesh, subjected Himself to a mortal state, with all the power of the Father within His command.



6) Trinity Doctrine confuse people about the word god. It also confuses people about Nature of things.

could you please give an example of this confusion concerning God, and enlighten us to the "Nature of things"?


7) Trinity Doctrine removes our advocate!! There is ONE GOD, and one Mediator. (who is also God) Trinity people think God has some sort of Bi-Polar, Multiple personality disorder and Argues with himself. The bible makes it clear in Gal: that it takes two to mediate, and God the Father is not mumbling to himself.

this is a flawed perspective. is it yours, or what you believe Trinity doctrine to be?
nothing removes our advocate. God provides the mediator through Himself. please share the Scripture in context from Galatians.
could you give some examples of people who believe God has MPD or talks to Himself, or was this just another veiled insult towards your fellow brethren in Christ?

this just seems to be vainglorious accusations against your fellow Christians devoid of any long-suffering or meekness which only serves to propagate said division you noted in #11.


8) Trinity Doctrine asks that we ignore many scriptures. Like who sits on the right hand of who? who called down and said this is my son? Who did Jesus Pray to? Why is God the father Greater than Jesus, His own words? It's these question that normally make Trinity people Pull out some diagram or picture to better explain their position.

could you please share the many scriptures that i am ignoring? i would like to be clear of any "baggage doctrine", if you are willing to assist brother.
obviously Christ didn't pray to Himself, but to deny Christ's authority given by the Father from the foundations of Creation on through eternity, is to deny Genesis through Revelation.(all things in Christ)

the created is never greater than the Creator, but in God's display of perfected creation in a man exemplified through Christ Jesus, this can be considered an equivalence.


9) God the Father called his Son Jesus, God!!! Gave him all things. Trinity folks missed that one. It's in Hebrews though. Trinity believes God patted himself on the back for a great Job and Gave his own things to himself. Since there is only "ONE" God nobody else to give them to.

that's not my understanding of it. flawed perspective of the Trinity. is it yours, or what you believe Trinity doctrine to be?


10) The Antichrist loves the Trinity Doctrine. He denies the Son, Denies Jesus was anointed of God, Would love to just throw the Son in some God goo, making him some Part of something and not the King of Kings, Lord of Lords, who was faithful until death and beat the snot out of Satan.

i fail to see how the Trinity denies Jesus Christ. this just seems completely unfounded. is it yours, or what you believe Trinity doctrine to be?


11) Trinity doctrine Splits believers, Splits churches, gets saved folk very mad at other saved folk. I can think of two major denomination now that split because of this silly Doctrine. A doctrine that causes anger and division must be a great doctrine!!

i disagree. while doctrinal disputes do cause issues, i believe that a lack of love in all things is what ultimately divides God's Church.
and with that...love to you. :heart:



#12
damo1

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i tend to agree with what one light had left in this topic god is not the name of the father the son and the holy spirit god is one


If the Trinity were a true doctrine, and especially if a person has to believe it to be saved, we would have expected Jesus to say something in the Sermon on the Mount such as this:


“You have heard that it was said” that God is One, “but I tell you” that God is a Trinity, one God made of three distinct Persons. [6] “You have heard that it was said” that the Messiah will be one from among you, “but I tell you” he will be more than that, he will be God incarnated in human flesh. “You have heard that it was said” that the holy spirit is the invisible spirit power of God, “but I tell you” that Holy Spirit is much more than that, he is the third Person in a Triune Godhead.”



#13
Jayyycuuup

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http://www.worthynet...tement-of-faith

<snip>
We believe in God, the almighty creator of heaven and earth.
We believe in the triunity of God. We believe that God is eternally One, and also eternally the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit — the three being distinct, but not separate. Each Person of the Godhead coexists from everlasting to everlasting.
We believe in the Messiah, Jesus, God’s only begotten son, God come in the flesh. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate. He was crucified, died and buried. On the third day, He rose again. Soon afterward He ascended into heaven. Now He is seated at the right hand of the Father and He will return to judge both the living and the dead and reign for evermore.
<snip>

#14
franciskelsey

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Leonard

And since they are all spoken of as doing things in the believer's life SIMULTANEOUSLY, it is a little hard to argue against a Trinitarian position in any serious, scholarly and biblical way.............


Anything in the Kingdom of God is for our own good. Prayer, the Word, tongues, The Holy Spirit, Jesus the author of our faith. Even among those that believe in "Trinity" They admit there are several scriptures and flaws in their doctrine. Some suggested getting away from the "ONE" God concept to accommodate many scriptures but keep the 3 in 1 concept. Passing that one off would be a Miracle.

Problems with Trinity Concept: (Without tons of scriptures and yak, yak, and teaching this or that)

1) None of the Disciples or writers of the NT Recognized the concept. They always separated God the Father and the son Lord Jesus. This is one of the problematic areas for Trinity believers.

2) Trinity Doctrine sheds bad light on the KJV. The KJV turned around a few Greek Words and mistranslated two, added whole text to one scripture to support the Doctrine. Most other translations don't get these wrong, but fail in other areas as I believe the KJV is the best to study out of.

3) Trinity Doctrine Makes Jesus 1/3 of a god. Since there is only ONE GOD made of 3 different pieces, Jesus looses any Full God status.

4) Trinity Doctrine removes man from God's family. The Eternal Godhead as it's called only holds 3. The Son, Father, and Holy Spirit. The Scripture actually says we are part of the God Head Bodily, working with and for the Kingdom of God, as Children of God.

5) Trinity Doctrine Makes Jesus an Icon, and not someone anyone could possibly be like. The all knowing, all seeing God while on Earth. That removes are greatest example on the planet and any possibility to be Like Jesus. Jesus said it is enough to be like the Master, and John said as He is, so are we in this World. So Trinity Doctrine fails there.

6) Trinity Doctrine confuse people about the word god. It also confuses people about Nature of things.

7) Trinity Doctrine removes our advocate!! There is ONE GOD, and one Mediator. (who is also God) Trinity people think God has some sort of Bi-Polar, Multiple personality disorder and Argues with himself. The bible makes it clear in Gal: that it takes two to mediate, and God the Father is not mumbling to himself.

8) Trinity Doctrine asks that we ignore many scriptures. Like who sits on the right hand of who? who called down and said this is my son? Who did Jesus Pray to? Why is God the father Greater than Jesus, His own words? It's these question that normally make Trinity people Pull out some diagram or picture to better explain their position.

9) God the Father called his Son Jesus, God!!! Gave him all things. Trinity folks missed that one. It's in Hebrews though. Trinity believes God patted himself on the back for a great Job and Gave his own things to himself. Since there is only "ONE" God nobody else to give them to.

10) The Antichrist loves the Trinity Doctrine. He denies the Son, Denies Jesus was anointed of God, Would love to just throw the Son in some God goo, making him some Part of something and not the King of Kings, Lord of Lords, who was faithful until death and beat the snot out of Satan.

11) Trinity doctrine Splits believers, Splits churches, gets saved folk very mad at other saved folk. I can think of two major denomination now that split because of this silly Doctrine. A doctrine that causes anger and division must be a great doctrine!!

12) I don't have a 12, but when other chime in, I am sure It will come up.

Blessings and.

Jesus Is Lord.


(1) Ephesians 4:6 American King James Version
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Paul confirming the Father is God and inside of all Christians

John 20:28 American King James Version
And Thomas answered and said to him, My LORD and my God.

Hebrews 1:8 American King James Version
But to the Son he said, Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your kingdom.

Jesus, Thomas, John, and an unidentified author calls Jesus God.

Acts 5:3-4 3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Luke and Peter calls the Holy Spirit God.

Now we have a problem. Between the Trinity is true or we have three Gods! Though NT authors separate they also imply equal or the same deity among all three as well as the actions of all three showing they can all only be part of the Godhead Trinity.

(2) I an assuming you are referring to 1 John 5: 7-8? This can be discussed a bit later.

(3) Not at all. A Husband and wife are said to be one. The oneness is their completeness. One without the other is the lack of completeness in the way God ordained marriage. The completeness lies in the two.

Matthew 28:19 American King James Version
Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Could you imagine this passage without the completeness of the three in the Trinity? Why are we commanded to baptize in the name of the three?

(4) Maybe you could tell us what scripture you are referring to here my brother.

(5) Jesus though fully God, also became fully man, but without sin. Thus the reason He is our example to live by. No, we can never be as the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit in relation to Who God is, but a son trying to be like his father can never be his father either. The point or goal here is to act, to behave in a likeness of holiness demonstrated for us and to us. Jesus was the only living man that was perfect. This we are to strive for the goal of perfection, a life of holy living, a life pleasing to God our Father.

(6) The Trinity doctrine is the only way to understand scripture without being confused. There is no other way it can make sense.

(7) I am a bit lost of the statement here. I always kind of see it as a marriage, though this is far from accurate. In this light though, as seen in scripture, each can be seen taking different roles and accomplishing different missions much like a married couple does.

(8) There is temporary placement in which Jesus relied fully on the Father while here on earth. This does not constitute an unequal situation but a temporary positioning. Truth be told, however, though the Trinity is very biblical, it is not fully understood. God questioned Job in this very manner.

(9) You can see the One God but you cannot see the Trinity. Ironically, you can see how not believing 3 in 1 and 1 in 3 seems to have much bigger flaws.

(10) I hope you got some scripture for this statement

(11) Men, saved or not, are still men. We see things different and Christian doctrine is no exception to this. By using the Trinity doctrine like it is a hammer splitting up Christians (though the far majority believe in the Trinity) one could say Jesus is no good, though sinless and perfect, as He breaks up families. The truth cannot be used in a manner of believing only if it keeps all together for then perhaps, everyone would be right, like Proverbs states, and chaos would prevail much sooner than we would like.

God bless

#15
damo1

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hear is what gets to me about this topic when i was a young christian i was not taught the Trinity doctrine nor did any of the elders or leaders or even my pastor and the other 5 acting pastors teach the Trinity doctrine that is circulating among certain Christians who go out of their way to the point were they show no respect or do they listen to what you have to say i have been rebuked told to my face that i am not a true follower of Christ because i do not hold on to the very doctrine these Christians hold on too


Jesus never Taught the doctrine of the Trinity or told any one that they had to believe it to be saved further more he never corrected anyone"s belief that he was the human Messiah

know when we disciple a new brother and sister we have to have them at least be aware of this topic that is being discussed this is what gets me i never got saved just by hearing the trinity doctrine being preached what got me to get up out of my chair and walk down the front was a pastors personal testimony how god worked in his life never did he mention about the trinity doctrine or say to me and the other 25 people that also got out of their chairs we had to believe in the trinity doctrine to be true followers of Christ


this just brings in confusion and causes nothing but division we don"t even teach the trinity doctrine to the filipinos that i know who are hungry i refuse to teach the trinity doctrine to a new believer but i will warn a new brother and sister and get them to do their own home work


what i am going to leave is what was given to me to go over when i was only 19 yrs old


The book of Acts records the teachings of the Apostles and disciples as they spread thegood news of Jesus. It is reasonable that if the doctrine of the Trinity were a truth not revealed in the Old Testament but necessary for Christian salvation, it should be clearly taught in Acts. After all, many Trinitarians believe that for an unbelieving Jew or pagan Gentile to be saved, he must believe in the Trinity. The book of Acts, then, is a proving ground for what unbelievers need to know in order to be saved. So what do we see in Acts? In all the sermons in the book of Acts there is not one presentation of the Trinity.


What Acts does record very clearly is that Jesus was a man, the servant of God, who was God’s anointed (“Messiah” in Hebrew, “Christ” in Greek), who died, whom God raised from the dead and exalted, and who will be the future King and Judge of all mankind . Furthermore, those who hear and believe that message get saved without hearing anything about the Trinity. Time after time Paul and others went into Jewish Synagogues and taught from the Old Testament about the Messiah, explaining that Jesus was the Messiah the Old Testament spoke of, and that teaching was enough to get people saved. There is not one record of Paul or others saying that what the Old Testament taught about the Messiah was not enough for salvation.

i have heard that the apostle Paul taught the trinity doctrine and when you ask to show me were in the book of acts or any other of the gospels were he taught the trinity doctrine you get what they have been taught i have gone over the new testament and can not see were Jesus taught the trinity doctrine to his disciples

but what i am hearing is if you do not believe in the trinity you are not a true follower of Christ and can not be saved just like being told if you don"t speak in tongues you are not a true follower of Christ

sinners prayer i said when i was 19 and i get others to do the same


“Heavenly Father: I come to you in prayer asking for the forgiveness of my sins. I confess with my mouth and believe with my heart that Jesus is your Son, and that he died on the Cross at Calvary that I might be forgiven and have Eternal Life in the Kingdom of Heaven. Father, I believe that Jesus rose from the dead and I ask you right now to come in to my life and be my personal Lord and Savior. I repent of my sins and will Worship you all the day’s of my Life. Because your word is truth, I confess with my mouth that I am Born Again and Cleansed by the Blood of Jesus! In Jesus’ Name, Amen.”

#16
GoldenEagle

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Well, the attributes of personality are mind, will, emotion, and activity.

In the Scriptures we see the Father spoken of as possessing all 4 attributes. He is therefore a person.
Like with the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

And since they are all spoken of as doing things in the believer's life SIMULTANEOUSLY, it is a little hard to argue against a Trinitarian position in any serious, scholarly and biblical way.............


Good points.

I'd also add that we as humans are made in God's image:

Gen 1:26
26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

I believe we are made in God's image: Mind (Father), Body (Son - Jesus), and Soul (Holy Spirit).

God bless,
GE

#17
franciskelsey

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Believing in the name, listening to His voice, and submitting ourselves to Jesus is how we obtain and grow in our Christian walk. Damo, believing in the Trinity was not how I was saved either, though as a kid I was taught this truth. I believe as we grow in Christ Jesus and His word, understanding that all three, the father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are called and named God and that all three have actions that can only be of God that we realize there is no other way it can be. Believe in Jesus and thou shalt be saved, but as we grow God does reveal more and more truth to the sons and daughters of obedience. God bless

#18
allofgrace

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Matt 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

When Jesus here says to make disciples of all nations and baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and of the Holy Spirit teaching the new disciples to observe all things that I have commanded you is one obedient when they don't obey His command of teaching all things that He commanded?

#19
Mcgyver

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After reading through some of the responses in this thread, all I can say is: Wow.... :biggrinflip:

I think that one of the biggest problems we have is with our modern, western mindset...to wit:

When we think of God, we almost automatically think of the Father...and it is true that God is the Father...but in thinking of Him in this way we start running around in circles trying to explain how the Father is also the Son who is also the Holy Spirit.

One of the best visuals to demonstrate the relationships is the "scutum fidei" The English version is here: http://en.wikipedia....dei-English.svg

God, for His own purpose and His own good pleasure has chosen to reveal Himself in three persons: As the Father, as the Son, and as The Holy Spirit...each with His own ministry working harmoniously together to accomplish God's redemptive plan for mankind, yet of one essence and indivisibly one God.

This is not a new concept, nor was it something that Constantine or some Ecumenical Council came up with...the concept is found throughout the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation.

Here are a couple of questions that I think will illustrate the point:

Was not God still on His throne in Heaven when the Lord appeared to Abraham by the Terebinth Tree in Mamre? Gen 18

Was not God still in Heaven when The Angel of The Lord spoke to Moses from the burning bush? Exodus 3 (KJV)

Was not God still in Heaven when He appeared to Joshua as the commander of the Lord's Army? Joshua 5:13-15

If God left His throne and made these appearances, why then is it written:

No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18

No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 1 John 4:12

So the I think that the concept of God appearing in the OT as a person while still on the throne as Almighty God is well established.

Even the Immanuel prophecy testifies: “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.” Matt 1:23

So the question arises as to the Holy Spirit. As was posted earlier, certainly the Apostles understood the Holy Spirit to be God (cf Acts 5:4).

Even in the OT we see the "Ruach Elohim" (Spirit of God) equated with God Himself:

Job 33:4 says: The Spirit of God has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

So IMHO the concept of a Trinity is established in the OT, and simply fully explained in the NT.

Edited by Mcgyver, 29 January 2013 - 01:46 PM.


#20
Jayyycuuup

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After reading through some of the responses in this thread, all I can say is: Wow.... :biggrinflip:

I think that one of the biggest problems we have is with our modern, western mindset...to wit:

When we think of God, we almost automatically think of the Father...and it is true that God is the Father...but in thinking of Him in this way we start running around in circles trying to explain how the Father is also the Son who is also the Holy Spirit.

One of the best visuals to demonstrate the relationships is the "scutum fidei" The English version is here: http://en.wikipedia....dei-English.svg

God, for His own purpose and His own good pleasure has chosen to reveal Himself in three persons: As the Father, as the Son, and as The Holy Spirit...each with His own ministry working harmoniously together to accomplish God's redemptive plan for mankind, yet of one essence and indivisibly one God.

This is not a new concept, nor was it something that Constantine or some Ecumenical Council came up with...the concept is found throughout the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation.

Here are a couple of questions that I think will illustrate the point:

Was not God still on His throne in Heaven when the Lord appeared to Abraham by the Terebinth Tree in Mamre? Gen 18

Was not God still in Heaven when The Angel of The Lord spoke to Moses from the burning bush? Exodus 3 (KJV)

Was not God still in Heaven when He appeared to Joshua as the commander of the Lord's Army? Joshua 5:13-15

If God left His throne and made these appearances, why then is it written:

No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18

No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 1 John 4:12

So the concept of God appearing in the OT as a person while still on the throne as Almighty God is well established.

Even the Immanuel prophecy testifies: “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.” Matt 1:23

So the question arises as to the Holy Spirit. As was posted earlier, certainly the Apostles understood the Holy Spirit to be God (cf Acts 5:4).

Even in the OT we see the "Ruach Elohim" (Spirit of God) equated with God Himself:

Job 33:4 says: The Spirit of God has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

So IMHO the concept of a Trinity is established in the OT, and simply fully explained in the NT.


Amen! :thumbsup:




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