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Dogs and Pigs in the Bible?

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#1
GoldenEagle

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Originally from this thread: http://www.worthychr...20#entry1913766

Dogs and Swine (pigs) in the Bible... What do they mean? Let’s start with these three passages. Your thoughts?

Prov. 26:11
11 Like a dog that returns to his vomit
is a fool who repeats his folly.



Matt. 7:1-6

1 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye?

5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

6 “Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.


Matt. 15:21-28

21 Then Jesus went out from there and departed to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.”

23 But He answered her not a word.

And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.”

24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!”


26 But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”

27 And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”

28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.


Looking forward to a good discussion. :thumbsup:

God bless,
GE

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Dogs and Swine (pigs) in the Bible... What do they mean? Let’s start with these three passages. Your thoughts?



They symbolize something that is unclean.

#3
Tinky

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Prov. 26:11
11 Like a dog that returns to his vomit is a fool who repeats his folly.



I believe it means a person who was seeking salvation, but turned back to their sins instead.


“Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.



I think that means sharing the Gospel with a person who has already rejected it.


26 But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”

27 And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”


28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.



I'm fairly sure it has something to do with Jesus bringing the good news and the Gospel, with the accompanying miracles, to the Jews first, and not the Gentiles, as this woman was. But her faith moved Jesus to act.

#4
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Originally from this thread: http://www.worthychr...20#entry1913766

Dogs and Swine (pigs) in the Bible... What do they mean? Let’s start with these three passages. Your thoughts?

Prov. 26:11
11 Like a dog that returns to his vomit
is a fool who repeats his folly.


A sinner returns to his sins.



Matt. 7:1-6

1 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye?

5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

6 “Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.


Pigs are interesting, They are kosher in the outside but unclean on the inside, kind of like the religious leaders of that time. Jesus spoke in parables and hid the pearls of the gospel in a way that only those who are hungry for Him would know what they mean. Dogs are nonbelievers, wicked, or foolish people in this context. I view this as unequally yoked or in communion with non believers. In OT context, you wouldn't share the showbread of the temple with gentiles,

Matt. 15:21-28

21 Then Jesus went out from there and departed to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.”

23 But He answered her not a word.

And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.”

24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!”


26 But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”

27 And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”

28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.


Little dogs, I believe that this passage Jesus was making a point to the disciples. They just entered gentile teritory and Jesus didn't just heal this lady, he went and healed multitudes in this region and multiplied fish and bread for them also. I think Jesus was dealing with the disciples mindsets.

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One of the meanings of "dogs" is Samaritan's, so called because they were half Jews and have another race and because they were mixed that were lightly thought upon like dogs in the street, but again, that is only one definition. ...yes Lord, but the dogs eat the crumbs...

#6
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One of the meanings of "dogs" is Samaritan's, so called because they were half Jews and have another race and because they were mixed that were lightly thought upon like dogs in the street, but again, that is only one definition. ...yes Lord, but the dogs eat the crumbs...


What scriptures do you use to define a Samaritan as half Jews and half another race?

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One of the meanings of "dogs" is Samaritan's, so called because they were half Jews and have another race and because they were mixed that were lightly thought upon like dogs in the street, but again, that is only one definition. ...yes Lord, but the dogs eat the crumbs...


What scriptures do you use to define a Samaritan as half Jews and half another race?

Please excuse me at this time.

#8
gdemoss

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I'd like to comment on this thread but prudence restrains me. To point out and define the dogs and swine that the bible instructs us not to give the holy things or our pearls of wisdom unto is to invite those who fit the definition to rend you. We are to beware of dogs not tempt them with a stick. And yes, there are dogs and swine here on the forum. And yes, they will bite or rend if provoked.

Peace in Christ.

#9
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I'd like to comment on this thread but prudence restrains me. To point out and define the dogs and swine that the bible instructs us not to give the holy things or our pearls of wisdom unto is to invite those who fit the definition to rend you. We are to beware of dogs not tempt them with a stick. And yes, there are dogs and swine here on the forum. And yes, they will bite or rend if provoked.

Peace in Christ.

You did comment. Yikes! "there are dogs and swine here on the forum"?

#10
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{Matt. 7:6} “Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.


I think that means sharing the Gospel with a person who has already rejected it.


We had to move our whole apartment this weekend so I haven’t been able to get to the threads I started. In any case…

Interesting this concept Tinky. I've heard others use this passage this way. Perhaps though I'd like to give a different perspective. This story is for everyone reading or commenting on the thread.

Let me share a personal story here if I may.

I grew up with parents who were very involved in ministry and church planting. So on occasion someone from our church would watch me and my sister. The ones of interest for the purpose of this story we'll call them Uncle Peter and Aunt Sandy. They had one son who's name was interestingly enough Christian. As a kid I didn't know who were my blood relatives and adopted relatives so to clarify they weren't my blood relatives. I didn't know any better and it didn't really matter to me. In any case it was interesting because A. Sandy was a very strong Believer and influential in the church. She and Christian were at pretty much every church event or Bible study.

But U. Peter was not. He had trouble holding down a job as he was a "boarder-line" alcoholic, heavy smoker, and had a bad temper. This got him in trouble often at his place of employment and sometimes even with the law. When A. Sandy would watch us kids I would always try to engage U. Peter. I always liked him. I was about seven at the time and a new Believer myself. But I wanted to tell everyone about Jesus. So anytime I would see U. Peter getting drunk or smoking I would say very loudly “You need to stop smoking and drinking! You need Jesus!” I was very shy about my God even then. Kidding. ;)

This went on for a while. U. Peter would get all embarrassed and mad at times. It got to the point when we’d come over that he would hide the liquor and try to smoke outside their apartment in order not to get caught. I kept telling him the same thing for years, “You need to stop smoking and drinking! You need Jesus!”

I’m not sure how the Holy Spirit moves all the time but I know some people gave up on U. Peter. Years went by and always I would say the same thing to U. Peter. At about thirteen we moved to another city to help plant another church. We called U. Peter, A. Sandy, and Christian several times to catch up in the first year after our move.

Something amazing and unnexpected happened. About that time U. Peter gave his life to the Lord! It was amazing! His wife (and her family) prayed and cried out to God for U. Peter for 20 years to come to know Jesus...

One day U. Peter couldn’t sleep and kept hearing my voice in his head over and over again. This was the Holy Spirit in this man’s life convicting him. U. Peter and A. Sandy’s marriage had been rocky for years. They were always fighting over his addictions, money or lack thereof, etc.

When U. Peter could stand it no more he went to talk to the new pastor and gave His life to Jesus that day. It was amazing as I said to see the transformation. He cleaned up his act, got a steady job, his whole attitude changed, there was peace at home, he gave up drinking and eventually gave up smoking, and even dedicated his life to helping youth at the church. He served as the volunteer youth minister at the church for many years and died about 10 years ago. When he died literally thousands of people (his former youth) came to his funeral and contacted his wife. God used U. Peter to influence a generation for Jesus!

God used this sinner even as a little boy to influence the life of this man. When others said God couldn’t change U. Peter’s heart A. Sandy and I still believed. We still prayed. I still challenged U. Peter at every opportunity.

More importantly God never gave up on U. Peter and God had a plan for that man’s life! The Holy Spirit kept moving and working in U. Peter’s life until one day U. Peter realized what was missing – Jesus!

Perhaps this passage above is at times used an excuse not to share with people rather than to persist even when things seem like they won’t turn out? Thoughts?

God bless,
GE


#11
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One of the meanings of "dogs" is Samaritan's, so called because they were half Jews and have another race and because they were mixed that were lightly thought upon like dogs in the street, but again, that is only one definition. ...yes Lord, but the dogs eat the crumbs...


What scriptures do you use to define a Samaritan as half Jews and half another race?


We had to move our whole apartment this weekend so I haven’t been able to get to the threads I started. In any case…

It is generally understood through history that Samaritans weren’t allowed to rebuild the Temple when the Israelites returned to rebuild the Temple after exile in Babylon/Assyria.

For a starting place see: http://en.wikipedia....maritan_sources


Regarding Biblical passages…

From New Testament times we know there was still a strained relationship between Jews and Samaritans in Jesus’s day. (See John 4:9)

John 4:9
Then the woman of Samaria said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?” For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.



“Samaritan” was a term used to insult as the Jewish authorities did so or attempted to do so to Jesus in the book of John. (See John 8:48)

John 8:48
Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”



Ironically, they recognized and accepted Jesus Christ as the Savior. (See John 4:39-42)

John 4:39-42 The Savior of the World
39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all that I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans had come to Him, they urged Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. 41 And many more believed because of His own word.

42 Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ,
[a] the Savior of the world.”


Yet Jesus openly associated with Samaritans and even accepted them. (See John 4:1-26)


Samaritans were among some of the earliest Christians (See Acts 8:25, 9:31, 15:3).


The Good Samaritan - full story see Luke 10:25-37

I’d actually like to point out the passage prior to the story of the Good Samaritan:

Luke 10:25-29
25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”

28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

29 But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”


Your thoughts?

God bless,
GE

#12
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Little dogs, I believe that this passage Jesus was making a point to the disciples. They just entered gentile teritory and Jesus didn't just heal this lady, he went and healed multitudes in this region and multiplied fish and bread for them also. I think Jesus was dealing with the disciples mindsets.


I agree. :thumbsup:

How is this passage today applicable to our mindsets?

God bless,
GE

#13
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It is generally understood through history that Samaritans weren’t allowed to rebuild the Temple when the Israelites returned to rebuild the temple after exile in Babylon/Assyria.

I didn't know they offered, now saying they didn't, just I didn't know.

Samaria had it's own temple on Mount Gerizim, I don't know the lineline with the rebuilding of the Judean Temple though.
http://www.lds.org/s...erizim?lang=eng
Watch it, it is a LDS (Mormon) site, but thought is was a good citation.


#14
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It is generally understood through history that Samaritans weren’t allowed to rebuild the Temple when the Israelites returned to rebuild the temple after exile in Babylon/Assyria.

I didn't know they offered, now saying they didn't, just I didn't know.

Samaria had it's own temple on Mount Gerizim, I don't know the lineline with the rebuilding of the Judean Temple though.


Samaritans also believed in worshipping God in the hills while Jews worshipped in the Temple. See John 4:20.

God bless,
GE

John 4:19-20
19 The {Samaritan} woman said to Him {Jesus}, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.

21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”

26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.

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Matt. 15:21-28

21 Then Jesus went out from there and departed to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.”

23 But He answered her not a word.

And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.”

24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!”


26 But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”

27 And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”

28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.


Little dogs, I believe that this passage Jesus was making a point to the disciples. They just entered gentile teritory and Jesus didn't just heal this lady, he went and healed multitudes in this region and multiplied fish and bread for them also. I think Jesus was dealing with the disciples mindsets.



Could you explain that please? What was Jesus trying to get across to His disciples?

#16
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Matt. 15:21-28

21 Then Jesus went out from there and departed to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.”

23 But He answered her not a word.

And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.”

24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!”


26 But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”

27 And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”

28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.


Little dogs, I believe that this passage Jesus was making a point to the disciples. They just entered gentile teritory and Jesus didn't just heal this lady, he went and healed multitudes in this region and multiplied fish and bread for them also. I think Jesus was dealing with the disciples mindsets.



Could you explain that please? What was Jesus trying to get across to His disciples?


I'll take a stabb at it. Perhaps the Disciples thought some people were better than others? Remember the Holy Spirit had not yet been sent by Jesus.

For example that women were lower than men. Also, that Jews were superior to Gentiles?

I submit the only difference between a saved person and a lost person is that while both are sinners the saved person is sanctified through Christ. Perhaps sometimes people forget as Christians we're still sinners saved by grace? Our worth isn't in anything we've done but in what God has done for us? Perhaps understanding this in Matt. 15 in light of Matt. 7 we can better understand the whole idea of pigs, dogs, and people's value in God's eyes?

Perhaps people focus so much on attacking others and their doctrine instead of living a life that would point others to Christ or even tell others about what Christ has done for us?

God bless,
GE

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I'll take a stabb at it. Perhaps the Disciples thought some people were better than others? Remember the Holy Spirit had not yet been sent by Jesus.

For example that women were lower than men. Also, that Jews were superior to Gentiles?

I submit the only difference between a saved person and a lost person is that while both are sinners the saved person is sanctified through Christ. Perhaps sometimes people forget as Christians we're still sinners saved by grace? Our worth isn't in anything we've done but in what God has done for us? Perhaps understanding this in Matt. 15 in light of Matt. 7 we can better understand the whole idea of pigs, dogs, and people's value in God's eyes?

Perhaps people focus so much on attacking others and their doctrine instead of living a life that would point others to Christ or even tell others about what Christ has done for us?

God bless,
GE


I see that passage as an example of someone humbling themself before the Lord. When He made the comment about "little dogs", she understood that He was making reference to her as a gentile. Her response about the dogs eating the crumbs from the table is acknowledging her awareness of who He was and that eventhough He was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, she, as a gentile/little dog, was listening and believing in what He was preaching. She was telling Him, "I may be a little dog, but I'm still feeding off of your Word."


Just my take. :)

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I see that passage as an example of someone humbling themself before the Lord. When He made the comment about "little dogs", she understood that He was making reference to her as a gentile. Her response about the dogs eating the crumbs from the table is acknowledging her awareness of who He was and that eventhough He was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, she, as a gentile/little dog, was listening and believing in what He was preaching. She was telling Him, "I may be a little dog, but I'm still feeding off of your Word."


Just my take. :)


this.

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One of the meanings of "dogs" is Samaritan's, so called because they were half Jews and have another race and because they were mixed that were lightly thought upon like dogs in the street, but again, that is only one definition. ...yes Lord, but the dogs eat the crumbs...


What scriptures do you use to define a Samaritan as half Jews and half another race?


We had to move our whole apartment this weekend so I haven’t been able to get to the threads I started. In any case…

It is generally understood through history that Samaritans weren’t allowed to rebuild the Temple when the Israelites returned to rebuild the Temple after exile in Babylon/Assyria.

For a starting place see: http://en.wikipedia....maritan_sources


Regarding Biblical passages…

From New Testament times we know there was still a strained relationship between Jews and Samaritans in Jesus’s day. (See John 4:9)

John 4:9
Then the woman of Samaria said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?” For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.



“Samaritan” was a term used to insult as the Jewish authorities did so or attempted to do so to Jesus in the book of John. (See John 8:48)

John 8:48
Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”



Ironically, they recognized and accepted Jesus Christ as the Savior. (See John 4:39-42)

John 4:39-42 The Savior of the World
39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all that I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans had come to Him, they urged Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. 41 And many more believed because of His own word.

42 Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ,
[a] the Savior of the world.”


Yet Jesus openly associated with Samaritans and even accepted them. (See John 4:1-26)


Samaritans were among some of the earliest Christians (See Acts 8:25, 9:31, 15:3).


The Good Samaritan - full story see Luke 10:25-37

I’d actually like to point out the passage prior to the story of the Good Samaritan:

Luke 10:25-29
25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”

28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

29 But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”


Your thoughts?

God bless,
GE


Good stuff Jon (except I did not go to the wikipedia site to read as I am trying to see if anyone can answer this soloscriptura.) There is a much larger picture here that I have worked to develop in past threads. I don't have time tonight as I must go to sleep. This is the dogs and pigs thread too. Don't want to side track it too far. I do have a thread somewhere where I have an open discussion on the Samaritan woman. I don't believe that it can be proven from scripture that she is an actual descendant of Jacobs. One can assume that since she remarks that she is then she must be but that assumption comes at a price. It is possible that she can say something like that but yet not be speaking in a literal sense. Which in many peoples eyes will break open a big old can o worms due to spirituality the text but what must be seen is the big picture to truly understand what God is presenting through her. It has major implications upon things such as eschatology.

Then again, it may not be such a good idea to discuss these meaty topics on a public forum. We have been commanded not to give that which is holy unto the dogs nor cast our perils before swine as the very things we teach them may be used to harm us. Wise as serpents and gentle as doves. Even Jesus was betrayed while breaking bread and if one who was with him would sell him down the river after such intimate relations then why not our own kind? Brother will deliver brother up unto death before it is all over.

Pigs and dogs. Hmm. We speak wisdom, not of this world, with those who are mature. I am still learning how not to get bit while petting the puppies. They are so cute! But vicious.

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Pigs and dogs. Hmm. We speak wisdom, not of this world, with those who are mature. I am still learning how not to get bit while petting the puppies. They are so cute! But vicious.

Gary, is it I?




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