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Is your religion a theory or a love affair?

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7 replies to this topic

#1
shiloh357

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I didn't put a strawman. I responded to you in the context of the conversation which was about romantic love. I assumed you understood the context. "Cuddling" between human beings is intuitively understood as a romantic demonstration of affection. My point was that John leaning back on Jesus' breast was NOT an act of "cuddling" no matter how you want to characterize it. You were the one who tried to present it as a cuddling act, and you are simply wrong in that regard.


You may have been talking about romantic love, but I was not, as I've already stated. I was simply replying to the cuddling remark.

But you didn't qualify that in your initial remark. I answered your comment in the context that existed and took for granted that you understood the context. If you were not referring to romantic love in your initial remarks, it is your fault for not qualifying that. I am not a mind reader.

Cuddling may be only romantic for you, but it certainly isn't for everyone. I cuddle my children, and even my pets, as I know many other people do.

That is true, but again, you didn't clarify that in your initial remarks. I was speaking of romantic love and made that clear in my initial remarks and you were responding to that subject. The onus is on you to clearly communicate your intentions. It is not my job to read your mind and try to discern what you meant. The context of "cuddling" I was referring to was CLEARLY romantic in nature. If you didn't understand that when you made your initial remarks, then the problem is not with me.

Like I said before, if you're uncomfortable using a certain word because you attatch certain connotations to it (like "cuddling" = "romantic"), you don't have to use it. Just please don't assume everyone else attatches those same connotations to the word.

Sorry but the misunderstanding is due to your lack of clarity, not because of any connotations I do or do not attach to the word.
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#2
shiloh357

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God created sexual desire. Romance is pagan in origin. There is no such thing as "romantic love" from a biblical standpoint. People confuse romantic affection for love. You can be romantic without necessarily loving the other person. Guys can be really romantic until they get what they want from the woman and then kick her to the curb when they are done.


I've been kind of bothered by this point you made.

If romance is pagan, are we acting as pagans when we are romantically involved with our significant other?

That misses the point. I didn't say that being romantic with your significant other is a sin. My point is that we cannot and should not apply that concept to our relationship with God. It is Father/child relationship, not a male/female romantic/sexual relationship. Speaking of intimacy with God in terms of a Father/child relationship is appropriate and scriptural. Speaking of it in terms of male/female romance is not appropriate and is unscriptural.

Romance is a pagan tradiction and based on fertility rites in ancient Rome (Hence: Roman-tic) You can google "Lupercalia" and it will tell you all about this and why the RCC changed it to "Valentine's day" Valentine was an ancient Christian saint that had nothing to do with the festival.
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#3
nebula

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That misses the point. I didn't say that being romantic with your significant other is a sin. ...

Romance is a pagan tradiction and based on fertility rites in ancient Rome (Hence: Roman-tic)


:hmmm:
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#4
enoob57

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There are some aspects of The Who of our Lord that don't seem real snuggly!
Rev 20:11-12
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the
heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
NKJV

there will be places where falling on faces in fear and reverential awe will be appropriate! Love, Steven
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#5
shiloh357

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That misses the point. I didn't say that being romantic with your significant other is a sin. ...

Romance is a pagan tradiction and based on fertility rites in ancient Rome (Hence: Roman-tic)


:hmmm:


Is that confusing? It might not be so confusing if you dealt with the entire post and not rip part of it out of context. It would certainly be sinful to perform ancient fertility rites with your significant other. What I said was that being romantic (in our modern application of that concept) is not sinful so long as our activities remain within the proper boundaries. "Romance" is now the modern label we apply to how relate to someone we are in love with. Obviously, we are not (at least in this part of the world) performing ancient fertility rites, but that is the historical origins of "romance." Nebula, you know better than to take things out of context.

The point is that our relationship with God is a loving, and passionate relationship albeit, not a romantic loving relationship. I don't see why this is so hard to accept, given that the Bible demonstrates this.

I am not surprised, though. On average, 70% of the theology you learn in church is learned through music. The remaining 30% is divided up between preaching, teaching and other para-church ministries. Most of your theology (good or bad) will be shaped by what you sing. So when we have songs that tell God that we want to gaze in to His beautiful eyes forever, and that we want to fall into His arms and feel the warmth of His embrace, I am not surprised that we have a really skewed view of who He is.

God is not our lover. He is not our "buddy." He is our most dread sovereign Creator, righteous Redeemer, and the eternal Judge of of the universe. He is not someone we are to approach lightly or with inordinate familiarity. He deserves our fear, respect and adoration.
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#6
enoob57

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That misses the point. I didn't say that being romantic with your significant other is a sin. ...

Romance is a pagan tradiction and based on fertility rites in ancient Rome (Hence: Roman-tic)


:hmmm:


Is that confusing? It might not be so confusing if you dealt with the entire post and not rip part of it out of context. It would certainly be sinful to perform ancient fertility rites with your significant other. What I said was that being romantic (in our modern application of that concept) is not sinful so long as our activities remain within the proper boundaries. "Romance" is now the modern label we apply to how relate to someone we are in love with. Obviously, we are not (at least in this part of the world) performing ancient fertility rites, but that is the historical origins of "romance." Nebula, you know better than to take things out of context.

The point is that our relationship with God is a loving, and passionate relationship albeit, not a romantic loving relationship. I don't see why this is so hard to accept, given that the Bible demonstrates this.

I am not surprised, though. On average, 70% of the theology you learn in church is learned through music. The remaining 30% is divided up between preaching, teaching and other para-church ministries. Most of your theology (good or bad) will be shaped by what you sing. So when we have songs that tell God that we want to gaze in to His beautiful eyes forever, and that we want to fall into His arms and feel the warmth of His embrace, I am not surprised that we have a really skewed view of who He is.

God is not our lover. He is not our "buddy." He is our most dread sovereign Creator, righteous Redeemer, and the eternal Judge of of the universe. He is not someone we are to approach lightly or with inordinate familiarity. He deserves our fear, respect and adoration.

All pathways lead to a point as yours is made here - so how does this fit with your summation?
1 John 4:18-19
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment.

But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love Him because He first loved us.
NKJV

Love, Steven
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#7
shiloh357

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That misses the point. I didn't say that being romantic with your significant other is a sin. ...

Romance is a pagan tradiction and based on fertility rites in ancient Rome (Hence: Roman-tic)


:hmmm:


Is that confusing? It might not be so confusing if you dealt with the entire post and not rip part of it out of context. It would certainly be sinful to perform ancient fertility rites with your significant other. What I said was that being romantic (in our modern application of that concept) is not sinful so long as our activities remain within the proper boundaries. "Romance" is now the modern label we apply to how relate to someone we are in love with. Obviously, we are not (at least in this part of the world) performing ancient fertility rites, but that is the historical origins of "romance." Nebula, you know better than to take things out of context.

The point is that our relationship with God is a loving, and passionate relationship albeit, not a romantic loving relationship. I don't see why this is so hard to accept, given that the Bible demonstrates this.

I am not surprised, though. On average, 70% of the theology you learn in church is learned through music. The remaining 30% is divided up between preaching, teaching and other para-church ministries. Most of your theology (good or bad) will be shaped by what you sing. So when we have songs that tell God that we want to gaze in to His beautiful eyes forever, and that we want to fall into His arms and feel the warmth of His embrace, I am not surprised that we have a really skewed view of who He is.

God is not our lover. He is not our "buddy." He is our most dread sovereign Creator, righteous Redeemer, and the eternal Judge of of the universe. He is not someone we are to approach lightly or with inordinate familiarity. He deserves our fear, respect and adoration.

All pathways lead to a point as yours is made here - so how does this fit with your summation?
1 John 4:18-19
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment.

But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love Him because He first loved us.
NKJV

Love, Steven


The Bible also says in Psalm 1 that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. I am not talking about fear in the sense of terror or dread. Rather it is the kind of fear that reminds of who God is and to whom we are speaking when we pray. It is a healthy fear that is borne from the knowledge that we are accountable to a holy and sovereign Judge.
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#8
enoob57

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That misses the point. I didn't say that being romantic with your significant other is a sin. ...

Romance is a pagan tradiction and based on fertility rites in ancient Rome (Hence: Roman-tic)


:hmmm:


Is that confusing? It might not be so confusing if you dealt with the entire post and not rip part of it out of context. It would certainly be sinful to perform ancient fertility rites with your significant other. What I said was that being romantic (in our modern application of that concept) is not sinful so long as our activities remain within the proper boundaries. "Romance" is now the modern label we apply to how relate to someone we are in love with. Obviously, we are not (at least in this part of the world) performing ancient fertility rites, but that is the historical origins of "romance." Nebula, you know better than to take things out of context.

The point is that our relationship with God is a loving, and passionate relationship albeit, not a romantic loving relationship. I don't see why this is so hard to accept, given that the Bible demonstrates this.

I am not surprised, though. On average, 70% of the theology you learn in church is learned through music. The remaining 30% is divided up between preaching, teaching and other para-church ministries. Most of your theology (good or bad) will be shaped by what you sing. So when we have songs that tell God that we want to gaze in to His beautiful eyes forever, and that we want to fall into His arms and feel the warmth of His embrace, I am not surprised that we have a really skewed view of who He is.

God is not our lover. He is not our "buddy." He is our most dread sovereign Creator, righteous Redeemer, and the eternal Judge of of the universe. He is not someone we are to approach lightly or with inordinate familiarity. He deserves our fear, respect and adoration.

All pathways lead to a point as yours is made here - so how does this fit with your summation?
1 John 4:18-19
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment.

But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love Him because He first loved us.
NKJV

Love, Steven


The Bible also says in Psalm 1 that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. I am not talking about fear in the sense of terror or dread. Rather it is the kind of fear that reminds of who God is and to whom we are speaking when we pray. It is a healthy fear that is borne from the knowledge that we are accountable to a holy and sovereign Judge.

Ah the shear magnitude of endless increase in A Being only Of His kind... that He answers to no one and all that he determines 'IS' and places eternity to that determination...
We all began in this light but now we grow in this peace- all that he forms within me shall be kept but all that He does not shall be discarded and my end shall be His delight
as the work is witness of His Love eternal without flaw... Sanctification the blessed hope of being like our Lord! Perhaps this canopy over our begin in Him shall be replaced
with the eternal absence of fear in perfect love - a mark laid before us supporting the hope that we have in Him... Love, Steven
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