Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

So we have arrived.

65 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

I know that this is both a lamentable and highly debatable topic but I cannot help but believe with my whole heart that we have arrived at the end. First things first, I wish to openly declare that I do not know the day or the hour within which it is all going to begin. Nobody knows, scripture makes that clear. I do however believe that I know the year, which I declare to be 2013, and the season which I declare to be between now and May 14th, 2013.

Thank you to all of you who hold the various positions and discuss the various topics here for leading me into a deeper understanding of the Word of God than I ever imagined possible. Even when your positions do not add up to convict me that they are true, they do help me to ask God the right questions and meditate in the Spirit that I might be given the answers.

I recently was given a missing piece of the puzzle that helped me to understand that which I have been seeing with more clarity. I suspect there is much much more that would help to clarify things further but for now I am satisfied that I am on the right path in this area. I work from an angle of prophecy and accept that every word of the bible from beginning to end is prophetic in nature and outlines human history long before it ever happens. If you do not accept this, then you will be at odds with what I present. Most people hear what I have to say and cannot accept nor understand how I make the connections I do. All of the connections I make in scripture are made for me and are internally taught by that which I believe to be the Holy Spirit, although I also know that when I would to do good, that evil is present with me and seeks to influence what I believe by lies. Discernment is key. Everything must be established in the mouth of two or three witnesses.

Isa 46:8-11 ¶ Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring [it] again to mind, O ye transgressors. Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [i am] God, and [there is] none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken [it], I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed [it], I will also do it.

God declares the end from the beginning:

Gen 4:19 ¶ And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one [was] Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and [of such as have] cattle. And his brother's name [was] Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain [was] Naamah. And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt. If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.

This scripture is often used to teach about the works of the flesh and the first representation of how polygamy doesn't lead to good things. The prophetic picture it displays is much deeper and significant in understanding what is happening around us in our day. The name Lamech means powerful and he has taken on two wives and told them both to hear his words.

" I have slain a man to my wounding"

I read this and understood.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

It was the declaration of that which the seed of the woman would do.

"If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold"

Seventy and sevenfold as a decree for vengeance upon another. Vengeance is mine saith the Lord, I will recompense. We never hear anymore on the matter of Lamech as it was only written to explain to us the principle and foreshadowing of that which was to come.

The first time we see this principle in action is in the book of Daniel when it is spoken against the wife of God, who were Daniels people.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Notice: It is to finish the transgression.

All of Daniel's prophecy was realized in that which came to be and concluded with the destruction of the temple and the disobedient messianic Jews of the time. God would take a people out of the gentiles for himself as well though. His second bride. She also would not hearken unto his voice but end up in the same position as the first bride. She would have her own set of seventy sevens for a time of vengeance from God almighty for rebellion.

The Jews 490 years began with the call to rebuild Jerusalem in Ezra's day and finished with the destruction of the temple. Now the major significance of the destruction of the second temple which is Herod's temple is that the first was Solomon's temple, that which was natural followed by that which was spiritual who is Christ the temple of God. The second temple was a Gentile temple though the Jews used it for their worship. It was pictured as Herod's temple. It was also destroyed foreshadowing the destruction of that which is spiritual, we who are the second temple as spiritual temple. Don't worry though if your an obedient follower as the gold and silver vessels were removed before the wood, hay and stubble was destroyed. See the arch of Titus for proof.

So when did our 490 years begin and when will they end?

Diet of Speyer (1526)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For other Diets of Speyer, see Diet of Speyer.

The Diet of Speyer or the Diet of Spires (sometimes referred to as Speyer I) was a diet of the Holy Roman Empire in 1526 in theImperial City of Speyer (or Spires, in present-day Germany). The diet's ambiguous edict resulted in a temporary suspension of the Edict of Worms and aided the expansion of Protestantism.

....

The Protestant princes dared here for the first time to profess their faith, and were greatly strengthened by the delegates of the imperial cities in which the Reformation had made great progress. The threatening invasion of the Turks, and the quarrel of the Emperor with thePope, favored the Protestant cause, and inclined the Roman Catholic majority to forbearance.

On August 27, 1525, the Princes, who were the ruling authorities at the time opened the door for the rebuilding of spiritual Jerusalem and set the clock in motion. It has been 486 years since that has happened. If I am seeing this correctly, and I do leave room for error, then just as the first temple which was the Lords body was destroyed, so shall the second temple which is Herod's spiritual temple whom we are be destroyed after being pillaged any day now.

In the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established. Do we have a second witness declaring 2013? I presented another one but was shut down immediately. Will I also be cut off in this thread as quick? God only knows, but I will attempt to get the message to the people for their consideration. In the thread mentioned, I mistakenly thought that I was posting the day after Israel's 64th birthday but I was actually posting on it. Looking back now, it seems rather strange that I was led to post that on the anniversary of their independence. God's timing is impeccable. I wonder if their is any correlation to the date I am posting this? God only knows.

I am open to hearing anything anyone has to share on the subject. Iron sharpens Iron. My position is that the current temple will begin being cleansed by May 14th at the latest (Gregorian Calendar for Israel anniversary but could be as soon as tomorrow. Either way we have no worries as we all put on Christ and walk in him and are the Gold, Silver or Precious Stones of the temple and we will simply be used by those destroying the temple rather than burned up with the wood, hay and stubble. Be of good cheer it is Jesus!

In the end, if I am wrong about all of this, I am leaving the study of prophecy and dedicating every waking hour to the study of following Christ in Character through the Holy Spirit as I can't handle being a Harold Camping. Feel free to ask any questions that might help clarify how other scriptures fit into this scheme of things. I will answer all sincere and even some insincere ones. :)

Peace In Christ, I hope I am wrong.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

In the end, if I am wrong about all of this, I am leaving the study of prophecy and dedicating every waking hour to the study of following Christ in Character through the Holy Spirit as I can't handle being a Harold Camping. Feel free to ask any questions that might help clarify how other scriptures fit into this scheme of things. I will answer all sincere and even some insincere ones. :)

Peace In Christ, I hope I am wrong.

Hello Gdemoss,

I have no questions regarding your prediction. I do wish to comment that many have come before you with a similar time setting "wisdom" and have been incorrect. I do not understand why you "hope you are wrong".

What is your purpose for airing this prediction?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

In the end, if I am wrong about all of this, I am leaving the study of prophecy and dedicating every waking hour to the study of following Christ in Character through the Holy Spirit as I can't handle being a Harold Camping. Feel free to ask any questions that might help clarify how other scriptures fit into this scheme of things. I will answer all sincere and even some insincere ones. :)

Peace In Christ, I hope I am wrong.

Hello Gdemoss,

I have no questions regarding your prediction. I do wish to comment that many have come before you with a similar time setting "wisdom" and have been incorrect. I do not understand why you "hope you are wrong".

What is your purpose for airing this prediction?

I hope I am wrong because if I am right many people are about to die. My purpose for airing this is to hear what others have to say about what I am seeing. Iron sharpens Iron. If I am wrong and they can plainly declare it then so be it. If I am right and this is one of the details they have been missing to solidify their own understanding then so be it. My hope in the end is edification for the reader or self.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Shalom, gdemoss.

In the end, if I am wrong about all of this, I am leaving the study of prophecy and dedicating every waking hour to the study of following Christ in Character through the Holy Spirit as I can't handle being a Harold Camping. Feel free to ask any questions that might help clarify how other scriptures fit into this scheme of things. I will answer all sincere and even some insincere ones. :)

Peace In Christ, I hope I am wrong.

Hello Gdemoss,

I have no questions regarding your prediction. I do wish to comment that many have come before you with a similar time setting "wisdom" and have been incorrect. I do not understand why you "hope you are wrong".

What is your purpose for airing this prediction?

I hope I am wrong because if I am right many people are about to die. My purpose for airing this is to hear what others have to say about what I am seeing. Iron sharpens Iron. If I am wrong and they can plainly declare it then so be it. If I am right and this is one of the details they have been missing to solidify their own understanding then so be it. My hope in the end is edification for the reader or self.

No worries, bro'. If you can get ANYTHING about the future from Genesis 4:19, then you have misappropriated Scripture and your interpretation of that Scripture is wrong. You are safely wrong in your understanding.

I wouldn't suggest relaxing your watchfulness, however. Obama is taking away our right to bear arms as quickly and as thoroughly as he may, giving gay individuals their "rights," standing up for Muslims everywhere, both within our borders and around the world, and plunging us into economic chaos from which we may never recover. Don't be misled by the "facts" that his administration is reporting. They're embellished to make him look good. The truth is that the economy is NOT recovering, despite their numbers. Many of us are STILL out of work, and the homeless numbers here in Florida are NOT diminishing! IMO, he obviously doesn't know the first thing about being a Christian, let alone the economy!

But, hey, if the dollar continues to lose its value, we can always wallpaper our homes with them, like Germany did with their marks in the period between the World Wars, right?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Shalom, gdemoss.

In the end, if I am wrong about all of this, I am leaving the study of prophecy and dedicating every waking hour to the study of following Christ in Character through the Holy Spirit as I can't handle being a Harold Camping. Feel free to ask any questions that might help clarify how other scriptures fit into this scheme of things. I will answer all sincere and even some insincere ones. :)

Peace In Christ, I hope I am wrong.

Hello Gdemoss,

I have no questions regarding your prediction. I do wish to comment that many have come before you with a similar time setting "wisdom" and have been incorrect. I do not understand why you "hope you are wrong".

What is your purpose for airing this prediction?

I hope I am wrong because if I am right many people are about to die. My purpose for airing this is to hear what others have to say about what I am seeing. Iron sharpens Iron. If I am wrong and they can plainly declare it then so be it. If I am right and this is one of the details they have been missing to solidify their own understanding then so be it. My hope in the end is edification for the reader or self.

No worries, bro'. If you can get ANYTHING about the future from Genesis 4:19, then you have misappropriated Scripture and your interpretation of that Scripture is wrong. You are safely wrong in your understanding.

I wouldn't suggest relaxing your watchfulness, however. Obama is taking away our right to bear arms as quickly and as thoroughly as he may, giving gay individuals their "rights," standing up for Muslims everywhere, both within our borders and around the world, and plunging us into economic chaos from which we may never recover. Don't be misled by the "facts" that his administration is reporting. They're embellished to make him look good. The truth is that the economy is NOT recovering, despite their numbers. Many of us are STILL out of work, and the homeless numbers here in Florida are NOT diminishing! IMO, he obviously doesn't know the first thing about being a Christian, let alone the economy!

But, hey, if the dollar continues to lose its value, we can always wallpaper our homes with them, like Germany did with their marks in the period between the World Wars, right?

Hi Roy, God bless you for taking time to respond. I want to ask a question and I don't wish to offend but understand that that is always possible. On what authority do you claim that Gen 4:19 is not prophetic? The claim that I have misappropriated scripture is a serious charge and I would ask you to lead me to understand what authority that that claim is rooted in so that I may know to whom I will be answering for it. Thanks.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

No worries, bro'. If you can get ANYTHING about the future from Genesis 4:19, then you have misappropriated Scripture and your interpretation of that Scripture is wrong.

I know one prophecy of future events that we get from Genesis, also types.

"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." it foretold of the coming Messiah. God bless.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

There is only one response to yet another attempt to set a date for Christ's return.....

Mark 13:32 -

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

In the end, if I am wrong about all of this...

You'll follow in the footsteps of those before you and pick another date.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

There is only one response to yet another attempt to set a date for Christ's return.....

Mark 13:32 -

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

In the end, if I am wrong about all of this...

You'll follow in the footsteps of those before you and pick another date.

God Bless you both

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

There is only one response to yet another attempt to set a date for Christ's return.....

Mark 13:32 -

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

In the end, if I am wrong about all of this...

You'll follow in the footsteps of those before you and pick another date.

God Bless you both

Thank you, gdemoss, and I was not being sarcastic. Only pointing to the fact that none of us knows. And may He bless you as well. :mgbowtie:

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Gary DIDN'T say he knew the hour, he only said he thought he might know the timeframe....just sayin' ;)

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I'd have to do some research but it seems to me that Paul told us that we should be able to tell as the time approached and it should not take us by surprise. For the life of me I can't remember where that's at though.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

Hi Gary, once again, I am impressed by your humble attitude - so rare to find these days. Rub some of the off on me will you? Seriously, I admire that quality a lot. We live in a world where everyone knows everything, man. Good to know someone out there knows they can be wrong sometimes, even though they are right many other times.

I have a shocker for you :blink::wacko::13:: I think you're right. And wrong too...

History repeats itself, yes? That's because God has sent His Word forth and it shall not return unto Him void but will accomplish that which it was sent for (Isaiah 55v10-11) He will keep fulfilling His Word until the final, ultimate fulfillment at the end of days. So yes, what you think might happen might happen, and it might hurt some people. But that doesn't mean that it's the complete and ultimate fulfillment of the prophecy. That's why people all thought that Hitler, Stalin, Osama, Obama were the anti-christ. are they anti-christian? Sure. Are they the unltimate anti-christ? remains to be seen, when all prophecy shall be sealed up in its culmination.

God bless you, Gary. May He add divine wisdom and truth to your humility and love. I pray that He gives you rest in His peace. He is the Prince of Peace, the Everlasting Father with everlasting arms to comfort us even in great tribulation and danger. I don't want people to get hurt or die, but I sure am glad that Jesus is coming soon!

Edited by *Zion*
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Years and years ago I heard a radio Bible preacher quote this: Mark 13:32 - But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

He then said something that, as a new believer, knocked me back (and I'm paraphrasing from memory): "Notice the verse talks about no one knowing the day or the hour, but it doesn't say we won't know the month ... or the week." He went on, "Now I'm not saying we will or we won't, but what if you knew--without a doubt--Jesus was going to rapture his people sometime in the next seven days? How would you redeem those days? How would that impact your witness to the lost?"

Those words stayed in my mind up until about ten years ago, when God gave me an idea about it. Long story short, it became my fourth published novel (Heading Home), and received a lot of very good reviews.

All that to say, gdemoss, you may be on to something! :biggrin2:

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Years and years ago I heard a radio Bible preacher quote this: Mark 13:32 - But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

He then said something that, as a new believer, knocked me back (and I'm paraphrasing from memory): "Notice the verse talks about no one knowing the day or the hour, but it doesn't say we won't know the month ... or the week." He went on, "Now I'm not saying we will or we won't, but what if you knew--without a doubt--Jesus was going to rapture his people sometime in the next seven days? How would you redeem those days? How would that impact your witness to the lost?"

Those words stayed in my mind up until about ten years ago, when God gave me an idea about it. Long story short, it became my fourth published novel (Heading Home), and received a lot of very good reviews.

All that to say, gdemoss, you may be on to something!

It actually does say that.

Matthew 24

36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,

39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Verse 39 indicates that the people were totally clueless. They did not know until the event actually took place.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

John, I just ordered a used copy of your book on Amazon. Looking forward to the read.

Thanks for the kind words Zion and bornagain2011

Sam, I think your referring to 1 Thes 5 where Paul says that because we are not in darkness that that day should not overtake us as a thief. That was the one, along with the OT account of God stopping by to tell Abraham what he was about to do before he did it gave me reason to believe in the possibility that I may not just be being led astray.

To All: There are numerous other scriptures that nail down the time table to show that we are indeed at the end of the age and the beginning of the last age of the kingdom of God upon the earth, but these that I have found are the only ones that I know of so far that place a specific time frame to it.

Do any of you subscribe to the theory that a day is with the Lord as a thousand years meaning not only that time is irrelevant with God but that prophetically speaking many hidden mysteries about Gods timeline are found in various scriptures prophesying about how long God would be working with man upon the earth? I began to see this in the scriptures about a year ago and have since seen a lot that puts not only an emphasis on our day being very eventful but also gives insight as to the possible actions that God will take soon.

I personally came to an understanding of scripture where I understood that all scripture from Genesis to Revelation is prophetic in nature, every single word and not just the prophets and Revelation. Oh boy, did that send me for a loop. I have been gaining a respect for God and his Word by the day that pales in comparison to that which I once had. Nothing, absolutely nothing happens in Gods world by mistake. This fact both scares and comforts me at the same time. I am just happy that I am on his side.

May God bless each and every one of you this day.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The unsaved, yes. The preacher was talking about believers.

But as I said, my work was simply one of fiction, a "what if?" tale; nothing to hang your hat on theologically, that's for sure.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Years and years ago I heard a radio Bible preacher quote this: Mark 13:32 - But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

He then said something that, as a new believer, knocked me back (and I'm paraphrasing from memory): "Notice the verse talks about no one knowing the day or the hour, but it doesn't say we won't know the month ... or the week." He went on, "Now I'm not saying we will or we won't, but what if you knew--without a doubt--Jesus was going to rapture his people sometime in the next seven days? How would you redeem those days? How would that impact your witness to the lost?"

Those words stayed in my mind up until about ten years ago, when God gave me an idea about it. Long story short, it became my fourth published novel (Heading Home), and received a lot of very good reviews.

All that to say, gdemoss, you may be on to something!

It actually does say that.

Matthew 24

36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,

39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Verse 39 indicates that the people were totally clueless. They did not know until the event actually took place.

Man, your absolutely correct. I think we need to ask 'who' was clueless though. Noah and his family were not. They knew 100 years in advance.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Why thanks, friend; you didn't have to that (but I thank ye kindly, anyway! :biggrin2: )

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Why thanks, friend; you didn't have to that (but I thank ye kindly, anyway! :biggrin2: )

Sounded like a good read.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Man, your absolutely correct. I think we need to ask 'who' was clueless though. Noah and his family were not. They knew 100 years in advance.

God had Noah build that Ark. Big difference there.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Shalom, gdemoss.

Shalom, gdemoss.

In the end, if I am wrong about all of this, I am leaving the study of prophecy and dedicating every waking hour to the study of following Christ in Character through the Holy Spirit as I can't handle being a Harold Camping. Feel free to ask any questions that might help clarify how other scriptures fit into this scheme of things. I will answer all sincere and even some insincere ones. :)

Peace In Christ, I hope I am wrong.

Hello Gdemoss,

I have no questions regarding your prediction. I do wish to comment that many have come before you with a similar time setting "wisdom" and have been incorrect. I do not understand why you "hope you are wrong".

What is your purpose for airing this prediction?

I hope I am wrong because if I am right many people are about to die. My purpose for airing this is to hear what others have to say about what I am seeing. Iron sharpens Iron. If I am wrong and they can plainly declare it then so be it. If I am right and this is one of the details they have been missing to solidify their own understanding then so be it. My hope in the end is edification for the reader or self.

No worries, bro'. If you can get ANYTHING about the future from Genesis 4:19, then you have misappropriated Scripture and your interpretation of that Scripture is wrong. You are safely wrong in your understanding.

I wouldn't suggest relaxing your watchfulness, however. Obama is taking away our right to bear arms as quickly and as thoroughly as he may, giving gay individuals their "rights," standing up for Muslims everywhere, both within our borders and around the world, and plunging us into economic chaos from which we may never recover. Don't be misled by the "facts" that his administration is reporting. They're embellished to make him look good. The truth is that the economy is NOT recovering, despite their numbers. Many of us are STILL out of work, and the homeless numbers here in Florida are NOT diminishing! IMO, he obviously doesn't know the first thing about being a Christian, let alone the economy!

But, hey, if the dollar continues to lose its value, we can always wallpaper our homes with them, like Germany did with their marks in the period between the World Wars, right?

Hi Roy, God bless you for taking time to respond. I want to ask a question and I don't wish to offend but understand that that is always possible. On what authority do you claim that Gen 4:19 is not prophetic? The claim that I have misappropriated scripture is a serious charge and I would ask you to lead me to understand what authority that that claim is rooted in so that I may know to whom I will be answering for it. Thanks.

You're right; it IS a serious charge, and I do not make it lightly. Genesis 4:19 is HISTORY, and its context lends NO credibility to interpreting it as prophetic! LOOK at the Scriptures! READ them as they were written! Don't make up stuff which you cannot support! If you cannot read Hebrew, then here are two English translations that you may use. Read ALL of the context and understand that these are real people who lived subsequent to Adam and prior to the Flood.

Genesis 4:1-26

1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.

2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

9 And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;

12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

13 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.

19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.

20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.

21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.

22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubal-cain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.

23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.

24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.

25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

KJV

Genesis 4:1-26

4:1 The man had sexual relations with Havah his wife; she conceived, gave birth to Kayin [acquisition] and said, “I have acquired a man from Adonai.” 2 In addition she gave birth to his brother Hevel. Hevel kept sheep, while Kayin worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Kayin brought an offering to Adonai from the produce of the soil; 4 and Hevel too brought from the firstborn of his sheep, including their fat. Adonai accepted Hevel and his offering 5 but did not accept Kayin and his offering. Kayin was very angry, and his face fell. 6 Adonai said to Kayin, “Why are you angry? Why so downcast? 7 If you are doing what is good, shouldn’t you hold your head high? And if you don’t do what is good, sin is crouching at the door — it wants you, but you can rule over it.” 8 Kayin had words with Hevel his brother; then one time, when they were in the field, Kayin turned on Hevel his brother and killed him.

9 Adonai said to Kayin, “Where is Hevel your brother?” And he replied, “I don’t know; am I my brother’s guardian?” 10 He said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying out to me from the ground! 11 Now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood at your hands. 12 When you farm the ground it will no longer yield its strength to you. You will be a fugitive, wandering the earth.” 13 Kayin said to Adonai, “My punishment is greater than I can bear. 14 You are banning me today from the land and from your presence. I will be a fugitive wandering the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” 15 Adonai answered him, “Therefore, whoever kills Kayin will receive vengeance sevenfold,” and Adonai put a sign on Kayin, so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Kayin left the presence of Adonai and lived in the land of Nod [wandering], east of ‘Eden.

17 Kayin had sexual relations with his wife; she conceived and gave birth to Hanokh. Kayin built a city and named the city after his son Hanokh. 18 To Hanokh was born ‘Irad. ‘Irad fathered Mechuya’el, Mechuya’el fathered Metusha’el, and Metusha’el fathered Lemekh.

19 Lemekh took himself two wives; the name of the one was ‘Adah, while the name of the other was Tzilah. 20 ‘Adah gave birth to Yaval; he was the ancestor of those who live in tents and have cattle. 21 His brother’s name was Yuval; and he was the ancestor of all who play lyre and flute. 22 Tzilah gave birth to Tuval-Kayin, who forged all kinds of tools from brass and iron; the sister of Tuval-Kayin was Na‘amah. 23 Lemekh said to his wives,

“‘Adah and Tzilah, listen to me;

wives of Lemekh, hear what I say:

I killed a man for wounding me,

a young man who injured me.

24 If Kayin will be avenged sevenfold,

then Lemekh seventy-sevenfold!”

25 Adam again had sexual relations with his wife, and she gave birth to a son whom she named Shet [granted], “For God has granted me another seed in place of Hevel, since Kayin killed him.” 26 To Shet too was born a son, whom he called Enosh. That is when people began to call on the name of Adonai.

CJB

Lemekh was just a man who was the first to have two wives. He was also the first to kill in self defense. So, what? What more is there in that verse?! So, just read this for understanding! Why go ga-ga about some "prophetic interpretation" of this NORMAL HISTORY?! There's nothing "prophetic" about it; there's nothing in the context that warrants such an interpretation! Not everything has some "prophetic interpretaion!" Read carefully Paul's words:

1 Corinthians 14:13-19

13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

KJV

Paul was not saying that we have permission to speak in tongues (foreign languages); he was making the point that IF one speaks in a foreign language that he hasn't learned, speaking through the power of the Spirit, WHAT GOOD IS IT IF NO ONE KNOWS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?! Now, I know that common sense is not very common anymore, but one can still pray to God for wisdom, and God will grant His wisdom liberally!

God doesn't use His Scriptures that way! If something is prophetic, He SAYS it is prophetic! He gave His prophets His DIRECT words, and there was no mistake that God had spoken! Be VERY careful about claiming to be a prophet; you risk much if God did not truly send you! You run the risk of "putting words in God's mouth," claiming He said something He didn't say! It's a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the LIVING GOD! You need to have the same austerity toward God as did Martin Luther! God loves His children, but He spanks hard if you cross Him!

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Roy with all due respect, you did not answer my question. I appreciate that you understand the severity of the charge you have charged me with and I hope you understand the ramifications if your charging me falsely through ignorance. You have not given any biblical authority that proves that all scripture is not prophetic in nature. You have given your personal opinion which places the authority on you and no higher. I have not claimed to be a prophet but have shared that it seems the scriptures are speaking to me prophetically.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

I accept the bible from Genesis to Revelation as a single book written by God and that is the way I understand these two verses. Yes, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God, as I have been on the receiving end of his chastening and it wasn't pleasant.

2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

We must be careful that we fall not into this category of false teachers. God has shown me this week where I needed refinement in certain areas where I lacked understanding and did not understand what he was doing in something. He saved me from being in the above category.

I adjure you by the mercies of God that you reconsider the possibility that you could be wrong and admit that, as I have, so that you will not be guilty of over charging me ignorantly. Lest you are absolutely sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that your charges are true and given you by God to charge me before all with misappropriating the word of God. I have not said 'thus saith the Lord' but merely shared what I have been internally led to believe. I have been working diligently to seek to understand whether that which I have been show is from God. I admit that to me it is very compelling.

God bless you and be merciful unto you.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Shalom, Gary.

Roy with all due respect, you did not answer my question. I appreciate that you understand the severity of the charge you have charged me with and I hope you understand the ramifications if your charging me falsely through ignorance. You have not given any biblical authority that proves that all scripture is not prophetic in nature. You have given your personal opinion which places the authority on you and no higher. I have not claimed to be a prophet but have shared that it seems the scriptures are speaking to me prophetically.

No, I didn't answer your question because I am not qualified to answer that question. Allow me to retract the "charge" and just say that it's merely a word of warning to the wise.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

I accept the bible from Genesis to Revelation as a single book written by God and that is the way I understand these two verses. Yes, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God, as I have been on the receiving end of his chastening and it wasn't pleasant.

2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

We must be careful that we fall not into this category of false teachers. God has shown me this week where I needed refinement in certain areas where I lacked understanding and did not understand what he was doing in something. He saved me from being in the above category.

I, too, accept the Bible from Genesis to Revelation; however, I believe that the word of warning in Revelation 22:18-19 is for the book of Revelation only. It really doesn't make sense otherwise, and if you'll check the Greek of that passage, you will see that it was a more specific warning and not a general warning for the entire Bible. Just the same, I also have been on the receiving end of God's correction. I can remember the very day I felt His hand of protection lift off my life so that I could receive the fruits of my deeds. I am still reaping the consequences of my wilder days. I believe that the only reason I've been spared is that God has a message for me to deliver and still loves me in spite of my sins of which I've repented and ran to Him for His forgiveness and mercy.

I adjure you by the mercies of God that you reconsider the possibility that you could be wrong and admit that, as I have, so that you will not be guilty of over charging me ignorantly. Lest you are absolutely sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that your charges are true and given you by God to charge me before all with misappropriating the word of God. I have not said 'thus saith the Lord' but merely shared what I have been internally led to believe. I have been working diligently to seek to understand whether that which I have been show is from God. I admit that to me it is very compelling.

God bless you and be merciful unto you.

As I said, I'm in no position to "judge another man's servant"; so, I do retract my charges. Nevertheless, it just FEELS so wrong to say that an "innocent, historical Scripture verse, minding its own business" would be accused of having an alterior, "prophetic" meaning! It's like rubbing a cat the wrong way. You're GOING to get SCRATCHED! That's all. I appreciate you, brother, and I'm only concerned that you're not putting words in God's mouth if He intended nothing of the sort in this passage in Genesis 4. Nuff said.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

God Bless you Roy. :emot-handshake:

This is the very thing I have been seeking to understand since the first day I started seeing scripture in this way. My question has always been "God, is this of you?". It all began when I read those simple words "Be ye not deceived" and I was stricken with fear, now understanding that it was possible to be deceived as a Christian. I fell on my face sobbing unto our Lord not to allow me to be deceived. As the days passed and I read on I was 'scared straight' so to speak because all the texts came alive unto me, showing me the judgment that comes upon those who don't receive a love of the truth but justify their own doings when they are contrary to scriptures commands. Texts like Luke 8:18 put the fear of God in me as well as Hebrews 5:9. One day while reading 1 Corinthians, I took the command to seek to prophesy as a direct command unto me and prayed fervently for all of the gifts to be bestowed unto me that I might edify the body of Christ. One day shortly after that, the bible began to speak to me in prophetic ways. I have been seeking to verify ever since what it is that has happened to me without avail. The terror of becoming a false prophet and giving false witness of God is opposite the horror of holding back and not giving that which is given by God to preach unto others for edification of the body. A Rock and a Hard Place for me.

I see much more than what I have provided in these two posts of mine here. It continues to increase everyday. Clarity about the whole world around me and the specific parts each is playing upon Gods stage has been coming more and more. My ability to understand how the bible declares the truth about everything without exception is becoming more keen as I am exercising myself unto obedience unto godliness. It truly is amazing yet frightening, breathing new life into verses such as work out your salvation with fear and trembling. To whom much is given much is expected as God isn't giving me understanding that I might consume it upon my own lust but that I might do the work he has set before me with godly fear and reverence.

Roy, you are appreciated and I do enjoy reading your studies when time permits (as they are usually long!). May God bless you more and more as you seek him with your whole heart.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0