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When is Gog Magog war?

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#1
bornagain2011

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I have been studying my Bible lately and I can't seem to figure out when the battle of Gog and Magog is, in revelations they put it after the 1,000 year reign when Satan is let loose again for a short time...

“And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them” (Revelation 20:7-9 — ASV).

But in Ezekiel 38 it looks as if it is before the 1,000 year reign. They talk about burying the bodies for 7 months...how could that be if it is AFTER the 1,000 reign and the new heaven and new earth are suppose to immediately follow??

38 Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh,[a] Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3 and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. 4 I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords. 5 Persia, Ethiopia,[b] and Libya[c] are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; 6 Gomer and all its troops; the house of Togarmah from the far north and all its troops—many people are with you.

7 “Prepare yourself and be ready, you and all your companies that are gathered about you; and be a guard for them. 8 After many days you will be visited. In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely. 9 You will ascend, coming like a storm, covering the land like a cloud, you and all your troops and many peoples with you.”

10 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “On that day it shall come to pass that thoughts will arise in your mind, and you will make an evil plan: 11 You will say, ‘I will go up against a land of unwalled villages; I will go to a peaceful people, who dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates’— 12 to take plunder and to take booty, to stretch out your hand against the waste places that are again inhabited, and against a people gathered from the nations, who have acquired livestock and goods, who dwell in the midst of the land. 13 Sheba, Dedan, the merchants of Tarshish, and all their young lions will say to you, ‘Have you come to take plunder? Have you gathered your army to take booty, to carry away silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods, to take great plunder?’”’

14 “Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say to Gog, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “On that day when My people Israel dwell safely, will you not know it? 15 Then you will come from your place out of the far north, you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great company and a mighty army. 16 You will come up against My people Israel like a cloud, to cover the land. It will be in the latter days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me, when I am hallowed in you, O Gog, before their eyes.” 17 Thus says the Lord God: “Are you he of whom I have spoken in former days by My servants the prophets of Israel, who prophesied for years in those days that I would bring you against them?

Judgment on Gog

18 “And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” says the Lord God, “that My fury will show in My face. 19 For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken: ‘Surely in that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel, 20 so that the fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all creeping things that creep on the earth, and all men who are on the face of the earth shall shake at My presence. The mountains shall be thrown down, the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.’ 21 I will call for a sword against Gog throughout all My mountains,” says the Lord God. “Every man’s sword will be against his brother. 22 And I will bring him to judgment with pestilence and bloodshed; I will rain down on him, on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, flooding rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 23 Thus I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself, and I will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the Lord.”’


Are there 2 Gog and Magog wars? I don't understand. What do you guys think?

#2
bopeep1909

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http://www.gotquesti.../Gog-Magog.html

#3
bornagain2011

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Thank you for the article! That was kind of what I was starting to think, two different wars. That really makes sense now!

#4
OakWood

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I have always believed it to be two different wars. The details just don't match up otherwise. It says in Ezekiel 39:9 that the people of Israel will use the weapons of the defeated armies as fuel for seven years. This seven years may well be the seven years of the tribulation, but even if not then it makes no sense to be seven years after the millennial reign of Christ.
The Gog and Magog of Ezekial appear to be Iran, Libya, Ethiopia (which traditionally was geographically more akin to modern Sudan than to present day Ethiopia) and possibly Turkey, some of the 'Stans' (Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and so on..) and maybe Syria. Rosh is seen by many as being Russia, but this may not be the case.
All of these countries are predominantly Islamic. Even Russia which although it is not ruled by Muslims at the moment could well be in the near future as it is said that over 50% of current Russian Army recruits are Muslim. Whoever controls the armed forces could very well end up controlling the country!
I'm guessing that seeing as the Iranian regime recently wanted to wipe Israel 'off the map' and seeing as fundamentalist Muslims want to destroy Israel and reclaim Jerusalem then they are good candidates for being the invaders of Ezekiel's Gog, Magog war.

Edited by WillowWood, 17 February 2013 - 08:50 PM.


#5
rjp34652

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I tend to agree with the opinions expressed here. Two wars separated by time, but fought in the same space or approximate geographic area.

If scripture is taken literally both campaigns are limited in scope albeit of horrendous loss and effect. The great wars of the twentieth century were fought on every continent of the globe, hence 'world' wars. Since 1945, most wars have been limited in area and number of combatants. The same is true for the spiritual wars described in the Bible; the end time conflicts.

With the exception of the effect of pollution (the fall of wormwood, dimming of the stars of heaven, redness of the moon, dimming of the sun at midday, death of 1/3 of fishes, etc.) in end times prophecy, the battles of man seem to be localized to the middle east. Hopefully this limitation also includes the release of -> A <- nuclear device or a very few such weapons in that area.

Not only is the geographic area limited, but the combatants also seem to be limited. Scores of books and commentaries have been written describing and detailing the identification of alliances. Oddly, there is little divergence between them. The Japanese, for example, do not seem to be involved nor are the people of polynesia. China may be part of the carnage, but is India or the nations of central or southern Africa? How about Scandinavia or the nations of central and South America? Nope.

Finally, despite the wish of some that America have its finger in every pie in the world, forces are at work that seem to be forcing the US into a limited role, if there is one at all. Growing domestic problems increasingly demand the attention of American leadership. In fact, I submit that when push comes to shove America will be almost completely evicted from middle east politics and conflagrations. Consider that at the time of this writing, America remains a restraining force in matters there. If American restraint were removed as result of economic pressure (or another crash) or military defeat/reversal what would happen then?

All the political alignments against Israel predicted in scripture are in place NOW. Only the American superpower restrains them. If American influence were removed or if it became impotent somehow, all those people aligned against Israel would feel free (if not absolutely joyful and celebratory) to execute their mischievous plans.

And then the end will come.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited by rjp34652, 18 February 2013 - 08:37 AM.


#6
OneLight

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There are two battles mentioned in Revelation. One before His return and one after the 1000 year reign. Yet, Gog-Magog is mentioned only once in Revelation. Does it matter if it is not mentioned in the battle before His return in Revelation?

Another thing to understand is that there is no timeline of events after the Gog-Magog war. When John was given the Revelation of Jesus Christ, he moved from one event to another, as if it happened the very next moment. This doe snot mean it is how this will unfold. We live in a time sensitive world, measured by seconds, minuets, hours, days, weeks, months, years ... God does not. An example is when we are told that Satan will be loosed for a short time. How long is that? Scripture does not mention a time. Yet, in one chapter, Revelation 20, we have Satan being bound, Christ reigning for 1000 years, Satan loosed for a little while to gather another army for the Gog-Magog battle, and the Great White Throne Judgment. These events are written one after another, yet it spans over a 1000 year period.

#7
Bold Believer

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Two wars: the first physical and the second spiritual in nature, but physical in scope. Historicists believe the first war was the Scythian invasion of Israel.

One Light: yes it matters. Revelation 20, like other parts of the Revelation is filled with contrasts. Christ has thousands of years to reign, a very LONG time. When the reign is finished, Satan gets a short time. So short, that it is not even defined in terms of time because the reign of Christ is so superior. There are also differences between the first Gog-Magog war and the second, which I have outlined in other discussions on the matter, the most significant of which is: In the 2nd Gog-Magog war, there are no survivors!

#8
OneLight

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Two wars: the first physical and the second spiritual in nature, but physical in scope. Historicists believe the first war was the Scythian invasion of Israel.

One Light: yes it matters. Revelation 20, like other parts of the Revelation is filled with contrasts. Christ has thousands of years to reign, a very LONG time. When the reign is finished, Satan gets a short time. So short, that it is not even defined in terms of time because the reign of Christ is so superior. There are also differences between the first Gog-Magog war and the second, which I have outlined in other discussions on the matter, the most significant of which is: In the 2nd Gog-Magog war, there are no survivors!

Scripture mentions a specific time of one thousand years, and it means one thousand years. To say that the one thousand years really means thousands of years is misleading and incorrect.

What is not known, as in the amount of time , is the definition of "a little while", "a little time", or "a little season", pertaining to Satan's release. To say it is short or long is imparting ones own understanding or rational in place of scripture.

Yes, I have read you outlines of past and have disagreed with them, and still do. The first war against Christ, that ushers in His return for the 1000 year reign, has not happened, no matter how you portray your ides.

As for your statement that nobody will survive the second war, that is also incorrect. The scripture below shows that those who come against the camp of the saints are the ones who die, not everyone, as in the saints.

Revelation 20:7-10
Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

There is no timeline given between verses 10 and 11, that is between the second war and the Great White Throne Judgment, so if anyone were to insist that it happens right away would be incorrect.

#9
Bold Believer

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So you understand Greek then, One Light? Tell me then what is the difference between chilios and chilioi? Because there IS a difference. Chilioi as used in Rev 20 is not the same as chilios. One means one thousand (the number) and the other is a plural of uncertain affinity, meaning it could be one thousand or more. Since chilioi rather than chilios is used in Rev 20, my assertion that more than exactly 1000 is very possible.

#10
loveincarnate

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According to prechristian celtic legend, Gog and Magog are GIANTS that are the traditional gaurdians of London, A statue of this pagan god, GogMagog stands in the financial district of London.

Gog
Description: Consort of Magog.
Rules Over: Fertility.

Magog
Description: Mountain Deity of which her consort was Gog. She was the more important. Britain's Megg's Hills are named for her, and several hillside chalk effigies portray her. She is usually depicted as a four-breasted woman astride a horse. It is thought her name may mean "mother deity," and that she was once a fertility and motehr Goddess. In patriarchal times she became England's St. Margaret.
Rules over: Fertility, couples, earth spells.

http://www.scns.com/...dh/godcelt.html



You see Gog and Magog are 2 ancient gods who have been invokedby Britain to stand guard over London's financial district.

Guildhall, London.

Two new giant figures of Gog and Magog, made by sculptor D. Evans, replace those destroyed when London's Guildhall was blitzed in the World War Two.

S. Mr. D. Evans waxing Magog and Gog is alongside. (1st 7 ft for super) & CU, LV Gog and Magog with models in front



#11
FresnoJoe

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According to prechristian celtic legend, Gog and Magog are GIANTS that are the traditional gaurdians of London, A statue of this pagan god, GogMagog stands in the financial district of London....


:thumbsup:

Silly Brits

~

http://www.gotquesti.../Gog-Magog.html


The B-I-B-L-E
Now That's The Book For Me

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

Historically speaking, Magog was a grandson of Noah (Genesis 10:1-2 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.).

The descendants of Magog settled to the far north of Israel, likely in Europe and northern Asia (Ezekiel 38:2-3 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:).

Magog seems to be used to refer to "northern barbarians" in general, but likely also has a connection to Magog the person. The people of Magog are described as skilled warriors (Ezekiel 38:15; Ezekiel 39:3-9).....

.... It is important to recognize that the Gog and Magog of Ezekiel 38-39 is quite different from the one in Revelation 20:7-8 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea..

Below are some of the more obvious reasons why these refer to different people and battles.

1. In the battle of Ezekiel 38-39, the armies come primarily from the north and involve only a few nations of the earth (Ezekiel 38:6, 15; 39.2). The battle in Revelation 20:7-9 will involve all nations, so armies will come from all directions, not just from the north..... http://www.gotquesti.../Gog-Magog.html



#12
bopeep1909

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According to prechristian celtic legend, Gog and Magog are GIANTS that are the traditional gaurdians of London, A statue of this pagan god, GogMagog stands in the financial district of London....


:thumbsup:

Silly Brits

~

http://www.gotquesti.../Gog-Magog.html


The B-I-B-L-E
Now That's The Book For Me

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

Historically speaking, Magog was a grandson of Noah (Genesis 10:1-2 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.).

The descendants of Magog settled to the far north of Israel, likely in Europe and northern Asia (Ezekiel 38:2-3 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:).

Magog seems to be used to refer to "northern barbarians" in general, but likely also has a connection to Magog the person. The people of Magog are described as skilled warriors (Ezekiel 38:15; Ezekiel 39:3-9).....

.... It is important to recognize that the Gog and Magog of Ezekiel 38-39 is quite different from the one in Revelation 20:7-8 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea..

Below are some of the more obvious reasons why these refer to different people and battles.

1. In the battle of Ezekiel 38-39, the armies come primarily from the north and involve only a few nations of the earth (Ezekiel 38:6, 15; 39.2). The battle in Revelation 20:7-9 will involve all nations, so armies will come from all directions, not just from the north..... http://www.gotquesti.../Gog-Magog.html


Yes,you can not mistake anything written in our favorite book hu? :mgcheerful:

#13
OneLight

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So you understand Greek then, One Light? Tell me then what is the difference between chilios and chilioi? Because there IS a difference. Chilioi as used in Rev 20 is not the same as chilios. One means one thousand (the number) and the other is a plural of uncertain affinity, meaning it could be one thousand or more. Since chilioi rather than chilios is used in Rev 20, my assertion that more than exactly 1000 is very possible.

I do not read nor write in Greek or Hebrew, but I do study the meanings of the words. So, though the spelling is different, you tell me ...

Chillias G5505
One Thousand in number, a chiliad.

Chilioi G5507
A cardinal number. A Thousand.

Now, a little more information.

The significance of this numerical term in Revelation 20:2-7 is much disputes. On the one hand, there are those who take this to be formally literal and understand it to represent a period of time lasting one-thousand years; they are called chiliasts. Those chiliasts who locate this period of time after the return of Christ are called premillennialists (a few of whom do not insist on exactly one-thousand years considering the expression of the figurative for a large segment of time). Those chiliasts who locate this period before Christs return as called postmillennialsts (represented by the liberal and the evangelical schools). On the other hand, there are those who take this to be essentially liberal and understand the thousand-year reign to represent ideally the present spiritual victory of Christ and His redeemed over this evil world system (Babylon); they are called amilllennialists or "nuncmillennialists" [now-millennialists]. The use of the expression "thousand years" itself does not require a formally literal interpretation. The literary genre' of the Book of Revelation is apocalyptic and as such uses numbers, places, personages, and its other elements primarily as symbols. [The Complete Word Dictionary - New Testament - edited by Spiros Zodhiates ThD.]

Saying that, we are to rightly divide His word through His Spirits guidance. Scripture is obvious where and when it uses symbols, as in "whose number is as the sand of the sea", referring to a number so great nobody knows. Yet, when scripture tells us of the two witnesses, it is two, the number, as in either dusin or duo. When it speaks of the time they will witness, one thousand two hundred and sixty days, the Greek says chilias diakosias hexEkonta hEmeras, meaning the exact time span. The idea that scripture, when speaking in terms of two thousand (dischilios), three thousand (trichilios), ten thousand (pentakischilioi), and so on, use the root Chilioi instead of Chillias, which bears weight on how we can view the millennium as a literal time.

Did I put to rest your concern about me?

#14
Bold Believer

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From what you wrote, One Light, you're beginning to get the picture. Chilioi and chilios are different; the one denotes an exact thousand, the other at least a thousand, but possibly more, hence it's described in Strongs as a plural of indefinite affinity. Post-millennialists (strict ones) tend to see the millennium as something man "brings in" or establishes. Other post-mils have differing understandings. I understand the millennium as Christ having reigned over the earth, through his people, bringing the message to the unbelievers. Christian societies were established, inventions built, and Christianity became pre-eminent (Isaiah 2) over all the other religions. At the end of Christ's reign, Satan was allowed to again have dominance, for a short time. This is the Gog-Magog war. It's spiritual in nature, but physical in scope. Satan is running the show behind the scenes. And that's where I believe we are now. This took two thousand years (and a little extra), which as I understand the word, fits the concept of chilioi rather than an exact one thousand years (chilios).

All we know absolutely about the Gog-Magog war is that it lasts for a brief period of time, "Mikros chronos," a little time (season). that could be 50, 75, 100 years. If it could be established just when the reign of Christ ended over the earth and Satan was released, that would be a lot easier, but God has not deigned to make that plain. My personal opinion is that it occurred about the time mankind harnessed nuclear energy and began to think of itself as godlike in the extreme (II Thess 2). Why do I believe that?

The former Christian nations began to wane after WW2, The US, England, France, stopped practicing Christianity, slowly at first, and then as time passed, abandoning it entirely in favor of humanist philosophy which places man in the position of a god. When you've harnessed 'the power of God', it's no wonder that you begin to think of yourself as God. All of Europe has fallen and America has almost completely as well. This is what Rev 20 describes...an ideological war, one side led by Christ, the other by Satan.

#15
OneLight

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From what you wrote, One Light, you're beginning to get the picture. Chilioi and chilios are different; the one denotes an exact thousand, the other at least a thousand, but possibly more, hence it's described in Strongs as a plural of indefinite affinity. Post-millennialists (strict ones) tend to see the millennium as something man "brings in" or establishes. Other post-mils have differing understandings. I understand the millennium as Christ having reigned over the earth, through his people, bringing the message to the unbelievers. Christian societies were established, inventions built, and Christianity became pre-eminent (Isaiah 2) over all the other religions. At the end of Christ's reign, Satan was allowed to again have dominance, for a short time. This is the Gog-Magog war. It's spiritual in nature, but physical in scope. Satan is running the show behind the scenes. And that's where I believe we are now. This took two thousand years (and a little extra), which as I understand the word, fits the concept of chilioi rather than an exact one thousand years (chilios).

All we know absolutely about the Gog-Magog war is that it lasts for a brief period of time, "Mikros chronos," a little time (season). that could be 50, 75, 100 years. If it could be established just when the reign of Christ ended over the earth and Satan was released, that would be a lot easier, but God has not deigned to make that plain. My personal opinion is that it occurred about the time mankind harnessed nuclear energy and began to think of itself as godlike in the extreme (II Thess 2). Why do I believe that?

The former Christian nations began to wane after WW2, The US, England, France, stopped practicing Christianity, slowly at first, and then as time passed, abandoning it entirely in favor of humanist philosophy which places man in the position of a god. When you've harnessed 'the power of God', it's no wonder that you begin to think of yourself as God. All of Europe has fallen and America has almost completely as well. This is what Rev 20 describes...an ideological war, one side led by Christ, the other by Satan.

Well, you start of your response is a bit off. This is not a beginning of my understanding of this subject. I have been, like you, studying it for years. Let's keep the personal insults out of the conversation.

Strong's is a lite study guide and I have turned from relying on it as a base for some time. That is one of the reason why I quoted the resource I use.

The main fault I find in your line of understanding is that what has been written to happen has not happened, where there is nowhere in written history to show that the events of the seals, trumpets and bowls has, as you claim, already taken place. Yet, you use the terms of "Christ having reigned" and "Satan was allowed" as if it has already taken place. This is not true.

It is up to you to point to historical facts when each of the seals, trumpets and bowls have happened, including when His believers were "caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." Since you claim we are wrong, show us with facts, not just words. To be honest, this has been asked of you many times and you have not done so. Let's end this once and for all and get to the facts.

#16
FresnoJoe

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From what you wrote.... you're beginning to get the picture.....


:thumbsup:

The Picture

Sir, we would see Jesus. John 12:21(d)

As I Can See It

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.John 14:6

Is Jesus Or The Byway

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

In Any Language One May Pick, You See

Love, Joe

#17
FresnoJoe

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It is up to you to point to historical facts when each of the seals, trumpets and bowls have happened, including when His believers were "caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." Since you claim we are wrong, show us with facts, not just words. To be honest, this has been asked of you many times and you have not done so. Let's end this once and for all and get to the facts.....


Amen~!

~

Shake, Rattle And Roll

Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. Isaiah 13:6-13

LORD Have Mercy

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:25-29

Amen~!

#18
Bold Believer

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I meant the difference between chilioi and chilios, One Light.

If you want proof of the fulfillment of the seals, trumpets and bowls, I suggest you read David Chilton's The Great Tribulation. It explains the relationship in detail. It's far too much to try and type all of it out here.

And as for the catching up...that occurs on the Last Day. It's a reference to the resurrection. Dead believers first, then live ones. Then the wicked. Some believers don't know that there are more references to 'like a thief in the night' in Scripture. Yet Peter mentions the same exact phrase in his brief treatise on the Last Day.

#19
OneLight

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I meant the difference between chilioi and chilios, One Light.

If you want proof of the fulfillment of the seals, trumpets and bowls, I suggest you read David Chilton's The Great Tribulation. It explains the relationship in detail. It's far too much to try and type all of it out here.

And as for the catching up...that occurs on the Last Day. It's a reference to the resurrection. Dead believers first, then live ones. Then the wicked. Some believers don't know that there are more references to 'like a thief in the night' in Scripture. Yet Peter mentions the same exact phrase in his brief treatise on the Last Day.

No sir, you are making a judgment call against those who do not believe the same as you and you have to bring proof to support that accusation, not tell them to "go read a book".

As I said, this has been going on for a couple of years. You have been asked many time to provide proof and you have not. It is time to either provide proof or stop telling others their understanding the end times is wrong. List historical events of when the seals, trumpets and bowls have been fulfilled.

As for being caught up, this is also an argument you need to back up. If that means you have to copy and paste from another of your posts, so be it. It is time to put this all together in one nice package and get it over with.

#20
Retrobyter

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Shalom, Bold Believer.

I meant the difference between chilioi and chilios, One Light.

If you want proof of the fulfillment of the seals, trumpets and bowls, I suggest you read David Chilton's The Great Tribulation. It explains the relationship in detail. It's far too much to try and type all of it out here.

And as for the catching up...that occurs on the Last Day. It's a reference to the resurrection. Dead believers first, then live ones. Then the wicked. Some believers don't know that there are more references to 'like a thief in the night' in Scripture. Yet Peter mentions the same exact phrase in his brief treatise on the Last Day.


I'm a student of both Greek and Hebrew, and the difference between "chilios" and "chilioi" is the first is singular and the second is plural, and this would be fine IF they were any other noun in Greek. HOWEVER, they are not "any other noun"; they are themselves a NUMBER! As such, they are adjectives, descriptive of a noun! OneLight was right to list what he did! Strong's says "chilioi" is a "plural of uncertain affinity," because normally the singular DOESN'T EXIST! Adjectives in the Greek always take the case, gender and number of the noun they modify, and in the case of Revelation 20:2-7, the phrase in each of the verses is "(ta) chilia etee!" "Etee" is plural, in the third declension (normally considered neuter), and in the nominative or the accusative cases. To reflect this, "chilioi" takes that third declension and the nominative case as does the definite article "ta." It's plural because "etee" is plural! Indeed, because it ALWAYS describes a plural noun, it is ALWAYS plural!

Can you find a case where "chilios" is used in Scripture? (NOT "chilias"; that's the feminine noun that is an ordinal number. I'm talking about a cardinal number.)

The number "chilia" doesn't mean "thousands"; it means many years, a "thousand" of them! Again, it's not singular or plural as we use our words "thousand" and "thousands," it's plural because "etee" is plural!




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