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The forgiveness of sins

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#41
FresnoJoe

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Now let's turn to the Old Testament for there is a distinction made in regards to two types of sin....


Beloved There Is No Way Around Jesus

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:7-9

For ALL Men ARE Sinners

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:7-10

And Only Jesus

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 3:24-28

Saves

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Revelation 1:5

~

Welcome To Worthy

Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! Psalms 133:1

And Be Blessed Beloved

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:11

Love, Your Brother Joe

#42
back2thebible

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If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.In regards to sin, we do see in scripture that there are sins that lead to death (this death being the second death)

#43
john14:6

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The blood of Jesus that He shed on the cross paid our sin debt to God "in full."

 

The only sin that sends anyone to hell is the sin of unbelief; choosing to reject God's gift of Grace through faith in the Gospel message which of course includes repentance.

 

I do believe that once in hell a person's degree of punishment will be dependent upon the severity of his/her sin. I'm not sure who will suffer the greater punishment, those like Hitler or those who came into the knowledge of the truth of the Gospel message but chose to continue in and then die in their unbelief.



#44
MorningGlory

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The blood of Jesus that He shed on the cross paid our sin debt to God "in full."

 

The only sin that sends anyone to hell is the sin of unbelief; choosing to reject God's gift of Grace through faith in the Gospel message which of course includes repentance.

 

I do believe that once in hell a person's degree of punishment will be dependent upon the severity of his/her sin. I'm not sure who will suffer the greater punishment, those like Hitler or those who came into the knowledge of the truth of the Gospel message but chose to continue in and then die in their unbelief.

 

 I don't agree, John.  There is nothing in Scripture to back the belief that there are different levels of punishment.  Sin is sin and all sins are unacceptable to the Lord. 



#45
2404

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I think part of the problem is that we are trying to apply our finite sense of justice.

 

Having said that - consider, Adam and Even living in perfection and then only ONE word off and look where we are at.

I believe we are not going back with anything less than perfection, which is only possible being clothed in His righteousness.



#46
john14:6

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The blood of Jesus that He shed on the cross paid our sin debt to God "in full."

 

The only sin that sends anyone to hell is the sin of unbelief; choosing to reject God's gift of Grace through faith in the Gospel message which of course includes repentance.

 

I do believe that once in hell a person's degree of punishment will be dependent upon the severity of his/her sin. I'm not sure who will suffer the greater punishment, those like Hitler or those who came into the knowledge of the truth of the Gospel message but chose to continue in and then die in their unbelief.

 

 I don't agree, John.  There is nothing in Scripture to back the belief that there are different levels of punishment.  Sin is sin and all sins are unacceptable to the Lord. 

 

Morningglory,

 

I'll use one scripture but you'll probably disagree with that too: Romans 2:5-6. I'll leave it at that because I don't want to argue about scripture. Interpret it as you wish.



#47
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Assuming the above sketch of the effects of sin is more or less correct, in what area does Jesus' sacrifice make a difference?

 

With the Holy Spirit, we can now understand more in depth of what sin is and who God is and what they both feel like. When we understand more of what God wants from us, it's easier to walk away from sin. For an unbeliever however, you are already condemned because of your unbelief in Jesus Christ. It's not your sin as an unbeliever that keeps you from him, it's your unbelief. - David



#48
kwikphilly

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Hi eco,

 And welcome to Worthy.....I am not too sure after reading your question and alot of your responses to the many replies posted ,what exactly you are asking-though I will give it a go.

 As many have stated ,according to our God inspired Word given to man in the Bible....we are told that we ALL fall short of the glory of God,Jesus tells us that if we break the very least of the commandments then we have broken all of them.In the eyes of God,our very best is just filthy rags......there is nothing we can do to be worthy,holy or acceptable before God.You asked somewhere what Jesus has to do with our walk with God....well,that's just it eco,we wouldn't be worthy to even walk or talk with God if it were not for Jesus,so we would not have a walk with God.

   You see,even if you thought you never committed one sin in your entire life,you still would not be good enough,pure enough,holy to present yourself before the Almighty Creator of all things"GOD".....what we think is just or what we think at all is of no consequence...God can do whatever He chooses to do,He said''I will show mercy on who I want to show mercy on''.....are ways simply are not His ways!

   But the good news is that He loves mankind and wanted to make a way for us to be reconciled to Himself and so He(Himself)came down from heaven to earth to become like us as a man(Jesus) and revealed Himself to us and shed His blood as a sacrifice for the sins of every single person who ever lived(past,present and future)....that blood(His Blood) is what washes us clean of sin and reconciles us to our Father....we then become holy and acceptable to God.Of course this is given us by the grace of God,His gift to us....we have the choice of either accepting this gift or refusing it.We accept Gods gift of grace by accepting Jesus into our hearts as our Lord and Savior.He is the Way,the Truth and the Life...,.there is no other Way to come to the Father except through His Son,Christ Jesus.

  Eco,may I encourage you to read the Bible......read it with an open heart and an open mind,I suggest you begin in the Book of John,I think He best describes how much God loves us and who Christ is....read it for yourself.I do so hope these words I have written will help to spark your desire to seek God in the Bible,He loves you so much.I will keep you in prayer and may God bless you.

                                                                                                                                        Truly,Kwik



#49
Jean74

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It is better to have rebuke from a friend than to have been blasted by a non-friend. It says so in the Bible but forget which chapter it is. Only God can help us to forgive as we can't forgive on our own.



#50
FresnoJoe

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It is better to have rebuke from a friend than to have been blasted by a non-friend. It says so in the Bible but forget which chapter it is. Only God can help us to forgive as we can't forgive on our own.

 

:thumbsup:

 

Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. Proverbs 27:6



#51
rebbell

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Jesus sacrificed himself for me. I believe HE deserves my honor and loyalty for doing so.

Now, I will bring it to the carnal understanding for you.

Say Jesus was a biker of 1% brotherhood. HE took the bullet for me because he loved me. I wore the same colors as HE did. HE fell for me, now my award of honor to HIM is to fall for HIM as well. My life belongs to HIM.

God Bless

#52
enoob57

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Two thought have prevailed in this thread that are without reason:

1. different degree of punishment- all God rejecters will be eternally in a lake of fire forever!

Now common sense dictates there is no positives from this point!

 

2. There are sources to reason with outside of God's Word! 

There is no other way to The Living Word Jesus The Christ than Scripture and The Holy Spirit to lead you there!

 

Love, Steven



#53
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Two thought have prevailed in this thread that are without reason:

1. different degree of punishment- all God rejecters will be eternally in a lake of fire forever!

Now common sense dictates there is no positives from this point!

 

1. There's no positives, but truth is truth. Would you rather be told the truth or brush it aside.



#54
john14:6

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ecoTramp,

 

I assume you want answers without scripture. That is difficult to do but I'll try to answer your questions as best as I can without quoting the bible.

 

1.Our sins can bring pain, loss, suffering, etc. to others depending upon the sin; for example theft, lying, murder, adultery, etc. all you have to do is just put yourself in the place of being the recipient or victim of any of these sins and you will understand the effect.

 

2 & 3. Sin separates us from God and condemns our soul to hell.

 

4. Realization of our sin can lead us to seek forgiveness from God; we need to hear the truth about the Gospel message which comes by hearing and/or reading God’s Word.

 

5. There is only one sin that determines our afterlife and that is the sin of “unbelief.” That means that we fail to or refuse to believe the Gospel message for forgiveness of our sins and eternal life with God. The Gospel message proclaims that Jesus' death on the cross & His shed blood there paid the penalty for all of our sins. The sin of "unbelief" means that we do not have "saving faith" in that message and the result is separation from God and spending eternity in hell.

 

6. Jesus’ sacrifice/crucifixion, His death on the cross & His shed blood there, is the difference in all areas. His crucifixion paid our debt to God. In other words, we owe God a debt, that debt is called the second death meaning spending eternity in hell after we die the natural death; but God accepted the death of His Son, Jesus, the One who was crucified, as “full payment” for our sin debt. Therefore, we can be declared forgiven, justified, & righteous in God’s eyes by repentance & faith in Jesus’ death on the cross for forgiveness of our sins. That’s the Gospel message found in the bible.


Edited by john14:6, 22 August 2013 - 12:11 AM.


#55
enoob57

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Two thought have prevailed in this thread that are without reason:

1. different degree of punishment- all God rejecters will be eternally in a lake of fire forever!

Now common sense dictates there is no positives from this point!

 

1. There's no positives, but truth is truth. Would you rather be told the truth or brush it aside.

 

God requires you to use your head in reason with Him...

Isa 1:18a

18 "Come now, and let us reason together,"
Says the Lord,
NKJV

The degrees past burning cannot be reasoned as

benefit... the truth of God is merely that truth and He

reasons righteously by 'IS' and 'IS' - I AM that I AM...

Love, Steven



#56
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God requires you to use your head in reason with Him...

Isa 1:18a

18 "Come now, and let us reason together,"
Says the Lord,
NKJV

The degrees past burning cannot be reasoned as

benefit... the truth of God is merely that truth and He

reasons righteously by 'IS' and 'IS' - I AM that I AM...

Love, Steven

 

 

He also said that you must be born again to see the kingdom of God. When an unbeliever dies and is not born again, there is no reasoning. John 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”



#57
enoob57

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God requires you to use your head in reason with Him...

Isa 1:18a

18 "Come now, and let us reason together,"
Says the Lord,
NKJV

The degrees past burning cannot be reasoned as

benefit... the truth of God is merely that truth and He

reasons righteously by 'IS' and 'IS' - I AM that I AM...

Love, Steven

 

 

He also said that you must be born again to see the kingdom of God. When an unbeliever dies and is not born again, there is no reasoning. John 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

 

How we went from the degrees of hell to salvation is lost to me in point of our discussion.... but I have no disagreement to your comment!  Love, Steven



#58
MorningGlory

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Morningglory,

 

 

I'll use one scripture but you'll probably disagree with that too: Romans 2:5-6. I'll leave it at that because I don't want to argue about scripture. Interpret it as you wish.

 

 

Okay, here it is.........

 

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

 

What, in those passages, speaks of different levels of punishment?  I don't see it.



#59
FresnoJoe

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The

 

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: John 11:25

 

Prince

 

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

 

Or The Convict

 

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

 

~

 

Seems to me, that the quality of our souls affects the quality of the afterlife we can expect. Mass-murderers, such as Hitler, Stalin, Amin, Pol Pot, etc, are just going to hate being in the presence of God. Other, lesser, criminals, aren't going to like it much, either. Those of us who have lead more or less moral lives, might like it somewhat more....

 

~

 

A Degree

 

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. Luke 16:35

 

Too Much

 

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:47-48

 

Help Me LORD Jesus

 

And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. Mark 9:6






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