Jump to content

christian forums

Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Forums

Welcome to Worthy Christian Forums
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Man was made in whose likeness?

* * * * * 1 votes

This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
26 replies to this topic

#1
1peterlight

1peterlight

    Junior Member

  • Junior Member
  • PipPip
  • 178 posts
In Genesis who is God referring to when he says let us make man in 'our' image? There is but one so who is the 'our'? Angels? Jesus?

#2
Parker1

Parker1

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,123 posts
I believe that it is a reference to the Trinity, although They are never called that. GOD the Father, GOD the Son, and GOD the Holy Spirit.

#3
xero

xero

    Veteran Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 530 posts
Male and female: image and likeness. Its not so complicated. It doesnt even say let us make man in our image after our likeness in hebrew for Gensis 1:26.

Elohiym amar asah adam tselem dmuwth
God said make man image likeness

Even if it did say let us make man in our image after our likeness that wouldnt be confusing either considering they were made male and female.

God made us like Him a married union of male and female.

Jerusalem from above is called the mother of us all in Galatians 4:26.

If Jerusalem is our mother than by virtue she is the wife of God.

I know that this isnt a common understanding so if this is confusing and you need more passages to confirm my statements please do ask if youre so inclined.

#4
GoldenEagle

GoldenEagle

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,460 posts

I believe that it is a reference to the Trinity, although They are never called that. GOD the Father, GOD the Son, and GOD the Holy Spirit.


I agree Parker1. :thumbsup:

#5
1peterlight

1peterlight

    Junior Member

  • Junior Member
  • PipPip
  • 178 posts

Elohiym amar asah adam tselem dmuwth
God said make man image likeness

Even if it did say let us make man in our image after our likeness that wouldnt be confusing either considering they were made male and female.


Really? That is how it's worded in hebrew? How did we even get the translation we did then?? That is interesting....I will say I don't really follow the male/female perspective as Genesis leads me to believe Eve wasn't even planned until God saw that Adam needed a mate. And if God was so inclined to say 'our' in genesis as a male/female deity, then why doesn't he stick with that through the rest of the bible? Thank you for the response by the way :mgcheerful:

#6
1peterlight

1peterlight

    Junior Member

  • Junior Member
  • PipPip
  • 178 posts

I believe that it is a reference to the Trinity, although They are never called that. GOD the Father, GOD the Son, and GOD the Holy Spirit.


You'd think I would have considered this already lol, thank you

#7
InHisTime77

InHisTime77
  • Members
  • 75 posts

I believe that it is a reference to the Trinity, although They are never called that. GOD the Father, GOD the Son, and GOD the Holy Spirit.


This. Also in the original Hebrew this was an exaltation. God referred to himself in the plural both as a reference to the Trinity and as a sign of his greatness.

#8
Mcgyver

Mcgyver

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 442 posts
OK, now here you've got me questioning on a couple of levels...

Male and female: image and likeness. Its not so complicated. It doesnt even say let us make man in our image after our likeness in hebrew for Gensis 1:26.

Elohiym amar asah adam tselem dmuwth
God said make man image likeness


According to my Hebrew/English interlinear bible it says in Gen 1:26 (excerpt, please forgive the transliterated spelling):

kidmutenu b'salmenu adam na'aseh elohim wa' yomer
to our likeness our image man make God said

So...how is it that you say that God never said: In our likeness or after our image?

The NAS renders Genesis 1:26 thusly: Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

The Tanach (JPS 1917 English) also renders Genesis 1:26-27 as: And God said: 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.' And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.

So I hope you will understand if I am questioning the origin and subsequent interpretation of the scripture you posted.


Even if it did say let us make man in our image after our likeness that wouldnt be confusing either considering they were made male and female.

God made us like Him a married union of male and female.


But yet Jesus says in John 4:23-24: But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” (emphasis mine)

So how in the world is God a married union of male and female when God is spirit?

Jerusalem from above is called the mother of us all in Galatians 4:26.

If Jerusalem is our mother than by virtue she is the wife of God.

I know that this isnt a common understanding so if this is confusing and you need more passages to confirm my statements please do ask if youre so inclined.


Let's place that verse in context...

Galatians 4:21-28 says:
Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written:

“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.

The Apostle Paul even states clearly that he is speaking in a symbolic manner in describing the two covenants...and the background is that Galatians is an apologetic against the Judaizers who were teaching that one had to become a Jew before one could become a Christian....so I don't think your exegesis (as you have written it) holds water. To wit: That Jerusalem is the wife of God.

#9
xero

xero

    Veteran Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 530 posts
I used a strongs concordance and it says that Genesis 1:26 reads Elohiym amar asah adam tselem dmuwth.

I wasnt aware that there are versions which read differently nor do I know which is closest to the original document.

I concede because Im not going to put the effort in that it would take to find out when each version was published, who translated them and from what text, or the translators doctrinal beliefs.

I still maintain that the image and likeness are male and female respectively.

You mention God is Spirit and indeed this is true but you know that God is also the Word and the Word was made flesh.

If God doesnt have a wife than why are we being called to a wedding? Food for thought.

#10
Jayyycuuup

Jayyycuuup

    Senior Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,405 posts

Male and female: image and likeness. Its not so complicated. It doesnt even say let us make man in our image after our likeness in hebrew for Gensis 1:26.

Elohiym amar asah adam tselem dmuwth
God said make man image likeness

Even if it did say let us make man in our image after our likeness that wouldnt be confusing either considering they were made male and female.

God made us like Him a married union of male and female.

Jerusalem from above is called the mother of us all in Galatians 4:26.

If Jerusalem is our mother than by virtue she is the wife of God.

I know that this isnt a common understanding so if this is confusing and you need more passages to confirm my statements please do ask if youre so inclined.


Interesting, commonly when I run across this people are implying that it means God is both male and female, if this is how you view this, then why does the bible depict God as a He?

Also, the bolded statement (above in your post) I do not understand. It says we were made in the IMAGE of God and according to His likeness. Now where do you get the implication that it refers to a "unity" of male and female?


Psalm 139:4 depicts our creation, and how we are wonderfully and fearfully made. Your thoughts?

#11
GoldenEagle

GoldenEagle

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,460 posts

I used a strongs concordance and it says that Genesis 1:26 reads Elohiym amar asah adam tselem dmuwth.

I wasnt aware that there are versions which read differently nor do I know which is closest to the original document.

I concede because Im not going to put the effort in that it would take to find out when each version was published, who translated them and from what text, or the translators doctrinal beliefs.

I still maintain that the image and likeness are male and female respectively.

You mention God is Spirit and indeed this is true but you know that God is also the Word and the Word was made flesh.

If God doesnt have a wife than why are we being called to a wedding? Food for thought.


God is distinctly male in the Bible.

God has betrothed Himself to the Church. Paid the price for the Church through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Would you agree?

God bless,
GE

#12
OneLight

OneLight

    Royal Member

  • Servant
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 26,623 posts
The interlinear I use is similar to that which Mcgyver uses. It states:

u∙iamr aleim noshe adm b∙tzim∙nu k∙dmuth∙nu
and ∙he-is-saying Elohim we-shall-makedo human in ∙image-of ∙us as ∙likeness-of ∙us

#13
saved34

saved34

    Veteran Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 519 posts

I used a strongs concordance and it says that Genesis 1:26 reads Elohiym amar asah adam tselem dmuwth.

I wasnt aware that there are versions which read differently nor do I know which is closest to the original document.

I concede because Im not going to put the effort in that it would take to find out when each version was published, who translated them and from what text, or the translators doctrinal beliefs.

I still maintain that the image and likeness are male and female respectively.

You mention God is Spirit and indeed this is true but you know that God is also the Word and the Word was made flesh.

If God doesnt have a wife than why are we being called to a wedding? Food for thought.


lol Xero it is hard to <persist in futile effort> . Your explanation of that passage made very little sense. Sometimes we should just let the word speak for itself. Elohim is used here, and scholars tell us that the word is plural. God is clearly identified as "Us" and "our". You may not believe in the Trinity but it's hard to get around this clear verse of scripture.

Edited by GoldenEagle, 08 March 2013 - 03:47 PM.
<removed saying>


#14
Jonah'sJourney

Jonah'sJourney
  • Members
  • 42 posts
Wonderful topic! Short answer: My view is God is speaking, in the immediate sense, to Adam, who was made in the image of God and was to grow into His likeness (which growth process included testing and thereby learning obedience). God's original plan was for Adam to be in His (God's) image and likeness and bear children who would be in his (Adam's) own image/likeness, and thus be in the image/likeness of God. But as a result of Adam's sin, his offspring have inherited his fallen nature--like father, like son.

God knew that would happen, of course, so in the prophetic sense in Gen. 1:26 He is speaking to Jesus as the Last Adam (1 Cor. 15:45), who (through Mary) is a descendant of Adam, but unlike the first Adam learned obedience from the things that he suffered (Heb. 5:8). Christ is the image of God (Col. 1:15), and at his resurrection became the firstborn from the dead (Col. 1:18), the firstborn among many brethren (Rom. 8:29)--that's us! As believers, we are being conformed to (Rom. 8:29) and transformed into (2 Cor. 3:18) his image, from glory to glory. So, to be conformed/transformed into the image of Christ = being conformed/transformed into the image of God = Gen. 1:26 fulfilled.

"Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive." 1 Corinthians 15:20-22

#15
*Zion*

*Zion*

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,865 posts


I used a strongs concordance and it says that Genesis 1:26 reads Elohiym amar asah adam tselem dmuwth.

I wasnt aware that there are versions which read differently nor do I know which is closest to the original document.

I concede because Im not going to put the effort in that it would take to find out when each version was published, who translated them and from what text, or the translators doctrinal beliefs.

I still maintain that the image and likeness are male and female respectively.

You mention God is Spirit and indeed this is true but you know that God is also the Word and the Word was made flesh.

If God doesnt have a wife than why are we being called to a wedding? Food for thought.


lol Xero it is hard to kick against the pricks. Your explanation of that passage made very little sense. Sometimes we should just let the word speak for itself. Elohim is used here, and scholars tell us that the word is plural. God is clearly identified as "Us" and "our". You may not believe in the Trinity but it's hard to get around this clear verse of scripture.


Agreed, Saved34 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

#16
1peterlight

1peterlight

    Junior Member

  • Junior Member
  • PipPip
  • 178 posts

Wonderful topic! Short answer: My view is God is speaking, in the immediate sense, to Adam, who was made in the image of God and was to grow into His likeness (which growth process included testing and thereby learning obedience). God's original plan was for Adam to be in His (God's) image and likeness and bear children who would be in his (Adam's) own image/likeness, and thus be in the image/likeness of God. But as a result of Adam's sin, his offspring have inherited his fallen nature--like father, like son.

God knew that would happen, of course, so in the prophetic sense in Gen. 1:26 He is speaking to Jesus as the Last Adam (1 Cor. 15:45), who (through Mary) is a descendant of Adam, but unlike the first Adam learned obedience from the things that he suffered (Heb. 5:8). Christ is the image of God (Col. 1:15), and at his resurrection became the firstborn from the dead (Col. 1:18), the firstborn among many brethren (Rom. 8:29)--that's us! As believers, we are being conformed to (Rom. 8:29) and transformed into (2 Cor. 3:18) his image, from glory to glory. So, to be conformed/transformed into the image of Christ = being conformed/transformed into the image of God = Gen. 1:26 fulfilled.

"Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive." 1 Corinthians 15:20-22


Interesting, it recently was asserted to me that Adam and Jesus were not perfect but had to perfect. It doesn't seem to say that about Jesus in your post but is this what you assume about Adam? So in your view, God was speaking to Jesus about Adam when he said in our image?

#17
xero

xero

    Veteran Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 530 posts
Jesus is the head of the church, which is the body of the congregation, as a husband to a wife or male to female.

Ephesians 5:29 "For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church."

Right there in Ephesians 5:30 it says we are of Jesus' flesh and then Paul quotes Genesis in 5:31 with "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.", he goes on to say in 5:32 its a great mystery but he speaks concerning Christ and the church.

If the two become one flesh and Paul is speaking about Christ and the church do you understand the male to female relationship now? Obviously not all of us in the church are physically female but were still the spiritual bride of the Lamb.

Spirit is to husband as flesh is to wife. We are the flesh and bone of Christ our spiritual head.

Matthew 19:4"And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

Im not saying God has a penis and a vagina. Im saying God made man in his image and likeness which is male and female because at the end of the Bible it starts quoting the beginning of the Bible and then says were the bride of God so honestly tell me how any of you make sense of being the bride of God?

I have to rely on the logic that a man shall cleave unto his wife and the two shall become one flesh because thats what God said. God made man in His image and likeness and male and female was the result so its perfectly logical to see image and likeness as being male and female.
God is spirit so I have to look at male and female from a spiritual perspective and I find that in the bridegroom and the bride of the Lamb.
Spiritually speaking the spirit is the bridegroom and the bride is the body.

Ive stated, reiterated, restated so Ill leave it at this: theres more to being male and female than our genitals and if you try to understand everything from a physical perspective spiritual concepts wont be easy to come to terms with.



#18
GoldenEagle

GoldenEagle

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,460 posts


<snip>

I have to rely on the logic that a man shall cleave unto his wife and the two shall become one flesh because thats what God said. God made man in His image and likeness and male and female was the result so its perfectly logical to see image and likeness as being male and female.
God is spirit so I have to look at male and female from a spiritual perspective and I find that in the bridegroom and the bride of the Lamb.
Spiritually speaking the spirit is the bridegroom and the bride is the body.


I think I understand somewhat what you're trying to say. Let me simplify what I'm trying to say.

God is referred to as distincly male in the Bible - Father. Jesus reffered to Him this way. Here's some examples.

Matt. 23:9
And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.


John 10:28-30
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.

Matt. 6:8-13

8 “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. 9 In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.


1 Cor. 8:6
Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.



While He may have certain attributes that are often considered feminine (nurturing for example) God is still masculine in the Bible. Would you agree Xero?

Good discussion brother. :thumbsup:

God bless,
GE

#19
Mcgyver

Mcgyver

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 442 posts

Jesus is the head of the church, which is the body of the congregation, as a husband to a wife or male to female.

Ephesians 5:29 "For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church."

Right there in Ephesians 5:30 it says we are of Jesus' flesh and then Paul quotes Genesis in 5:31 with "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.", he goes on to say in 5:32 its a great mystery but he speaks concerning Christ and the church.

If the two become one flesh and Paul is speaking about Christ and the church do you understand the male to female relationship now? Obviously not all of us in the church are physically female but were still the spiritual bride of the Lamb.

Spirit is to husband as flesh is to wife. We are the flesh and bone of Christ our spiritual head.

Matthew 19:4"And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

Im not saying God has a penis and a vagina. Im saying God made man in his image and likeness which is male and female because at the end of the Bible it starts quoting the beginning of the Bible and then says were the bride of God so honestly tell me how any of you make sense of being the bride of God?

I have to rely on the logic that a man shall cleave unto his wife and the two shall become one flesh because thats what God said. God made man in His image and likeness and male and female was the result so its perfectly logical to see image and likeness as being male and female.
God is spirit so I have to look at male and female from a spiritual perspective and I find that in the bridegroom and the bride of the Lamb.
Spiritually speaking the spirit is the bridegroom and the bride is the body.

Ive stated, reiterated, restated so Ill leave it at this: theres more to being male and female than our genitals and if you try to understand everything from a physical perspective spiritual concepts wont be easy to come to terms with.


Maybe I'm just not getting what you're trying to say here...because honestly, to me this smacks of some new-age influence. Maybe I'm just confused or failing to understand from your examples...wouldn't be the first time...

In context, in Ephesians 5:22-33 Paul is using analogy and similitude to describe the relationship of a husband and wife...and he specifically states: Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself.

This in a time when women were little more than chattels......

Similitude and analogy to illustrate, expound upon, and prove a point.

For when Paul says: For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. I'm pretty sure he's not saying that I (for example) am the fingernail on His left pinky...if you see what I'm driving at.

I'm just not seeing this:

I have to rely on the logic that a man shall cleave unto his wife and the two shall become one flesh because thats what God said. God made man in His image and likeness and male and female was the result so its perfectly logical to see image and likeness as being male and female.


I would submit that being created in His image has very little to do either with physical appearance or sex, but rather we are a different order of creation than angels, fish, birds, or animals; for we were created to have a relationship with God as His children....to fellowship with God.

Man alone on this earth has the capacity to make moral decisions, to know right from wrong, to think critically and come to conclusions not based on instinct or primeval drives...to think abstractly and communicate in complex ways...to pray and have our prayers heard...but even the most primitive bacteria has the capacity to procreate.

I think that a better comparison would be: I can't have fellowship with a dog, but I can have fellowship with my son...because my son is in my image whereas my dog is not...

God is spirit...and He has chosen to reveal Himself as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit not because He is some sort of androgynous being...but so that we can understand that we can have a relationship with Him as a loving Father, because we were created in the similitude of His spiritual image...

James writes (concerning the tongue): With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God.

Edited by Mcgyver, 08 March 2013 - 10:36 AM.


#20
Jonah'sJourney

Jonah'sJourney
  • Members
  • 42 posts

Interesting, it recently was asserted to me that Adam and Jesus were not perfect but had to perfect. It doesn't seem to say that about Jesus in your post but is this what you assume about Adam?


No, by definition Adam was perfect until he sinned. But there was still a sense in which he had to be perfected, tested. Jesus was perfect, yet still had to be tested. (I'm speaking of Jesus as to his humanity, as the "Last Adam.") Adam failed the test, Jesus did not.

So in your view, God was speaking to Jesus about Adam when he said in our image?


There is a double application to Genesis 1:26, one physical (relating to Adam) and the other spiritual (relating to Christ).

In the historical context of Genesis 1:26, God is speaking to Adam ("Let us ...") by announcing beforehand His intent, which was that Adam, who was created in the image and likeness of God, should bring forth sons and daughters ("... make man ...") who would be in the image and likeness of their father, and therefore in the image and likeness of God ("... in our image, according to our likeness"). Adam was the prototype, the "federal head" of the human race. Those whom Adam beget would be "in Adam," in the sense they would be like him. Adam sinned, and thus all those who descend from him are like him ("in Adam all die" 1 Cor. 15:22).

In the prophetic sense, in Genesis 1:26 God is speaking to Christ, the firstborn of a new (spiritual) creation--the Last Adam. God foreknew that the first Adam would sin and that all his descendants would therefore be lost. But He also foreknew that, when the fulness of time came, He would send forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law (Gal. 4:4), who would accomplish what Adam did not. As believers, we are no longer "in Adam," but "in Christ" (1 Cor. 15:22).

The reason Jesus is called the "last Adam" (1 Cor. 15:45) is because he (as man) is the anti-type of the first Adam, who was a type of Him who was to come (Rom. 5:14). Genesis 1:26 is actually the first Messianic prophecy!

Edited by GoldenEagle, 08 March 2013 - 03:45 PM.





Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Message Boards - 1999-2014 part of the Worthy Network