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Who is with me? How much do you love God?


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I was responding to a different thread, where a poster expressed a sort of disbelief I guess, that some beleivers want to somehow prove themselves to God, by going through the tribulation.

I felt my response, was worth posting as a topic on it's own, so here it is:

I would rather go through the tribulation than be raptured out ahead of time, but there is a condition to that desire: That it be according to God's will. Our savior is our example, submit to the will of God, even if it is unpleasant for a while.

1Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Oh to be able to do just that. I do not love pain of discomfort, in fact, I am a coward, but I also am not looking at this through fleshy eyes. I understand that nothing that can befall me in this life is worth worrying over:

16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him. 18For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

I do not see suffering for Jesus to be something to avoided at all costs, I consider it a privelege. Why would I think, that I should be excluded, even from suffering and or death, where so many prophets, apostles, and marthys in the last 2000 years up to this present day, have led the way, to the glory of God?

Those of us who hope to escape unscathed, are those who have their eyes fixed on comfort in this present age, instead of taking Jesus words to heart:

10“Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11“Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. 12“Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Maybe we just want to refuse the extra blessings our Father wants to pour out on His children. I do not need to prove myself to God, He know what I am, and what I am not. I am however, willing to be spent for Him.

1Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.

Which is the greater act of worship? Singing a hymm in church, or presenting my body as living sacrifice. I can think of no greater act of worship, no greater act of love, than:

13“Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. 14“You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15“No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you.

Those who are Jesus friends, are willing to die for Him, and we are called to that attitude.

24Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. 25“For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.

Over and over in the New Testament, we are told to expect trouble, and to persevere in trouble. Are those just words? Or do they actually mean something? Aslo we are told that perseverance in tribulation improves the church, why would I not welcome improvement in the church? What benefit is there in escapism? Nothing that I know of, that is not worldy, temporal.

So, speaking for myself, if God wants me to suffer, I volunteer. People in the tribulation will need help, will need the Gospel. I received that gift freely from God, with nothing on my part to deserve it. I can never pay God back for that, but I can offer to be there for those in the tribulation, that God loves just as much as He loves me.

I only wish that I would carry that conviction in everyday life. Every person I fail to tell the gospel to, is another person I have shown contempt for, by not thinking them worthy enough for me to disturb my personal comfort in the hope of saving them from an eternity of suffering. I too, amd fleshly, and I know that in me, I am not obedient enough to do well in the tribulation. I recall that when push came to shove, Peter was a bit of a coward. I also recall that Peter was later filled with the Spirit, to the result that he was anything but a coward. One of the most common phrases accompanying the phrase filled with the Spirit, is 'full of boldness'. I think if God can do that for Peter, he can also do so far any or even every one of us. If I were to find myself in the tribulation, I pray for God's grace to enable me to stand for what I beleive, to stand for Him.

Who is with me?

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I will stand with you Omegaman :)

I hear we may lose a physical battle here and there but the Spiritual battle is ours !

1Jn 5:4-5 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. (5) Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Plus, I am a sucker for punishment. :D

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I'm ready to do His will, whatever that may be for me.

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I am so glad, I understand why people might not want to express what sounds like bravodo, or perhaps feel uncertain where they are in this topic. I think though, that those who are not willing to stand were we stand, might be those who would fall away, if they did find themselves in the tribulation. It might serve people well, to get an idea where they are in the parable of the sower: 18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

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I think like most people I am certain that in and by myself I would crumble and fail BUT I have been in too many really bad situations not to know that all we need to do is call aout and ask and God gives us the strength and the words at the right time ..we just need to ask , listen and be willing .Praise God that though I am weak HE is my strength in time of need and my comfort and joy at all other times

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Amen Lady!

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I recall that when push came to shove, Peter was a bit of a coward. I also recall that Peter was later filled with the Spirit, to the result that he was anything but a coward. One of the most common phrases accompanying the phrase filled with the Spirit, is 'full of boldness'. I think if God can do that for Peter, he can also do so far any or even every one of us. If I were to find myself in the tribulation, I pray for God's grace to enable me to stand for what I beleive, to stand for Him.

Who is with me?

You hit the nail on the head my friend, we can only do it in God's Spirit, not in our flesh. I was posting about this somewhere else yesterday, I'm sure... Let me tell you, the enemy is going to do all he can to get us to forget to pray that prayer: 'Lord, fill me with your Holy Spirit today!' We need to pray this prayer every day because we just can't do it alone. I'm with you, Omegaman, in Him.

Lord, fill us with your Holy Spirit today, we pray, in Jesus' mighty Name! Amen!

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I'm from back in the day when all the preachers were teaching the Rapture comes first. But even if it doesn't, I'm not real worried about what I'll do because of what I went through last year. Where I am we lost contact with most of the rest of the world, and I thought there was a good chance this was it. So I started singing hymns to God in my head and aloud. And as Christmas drew near I was singing Christmas hymns. I mean alone now, and in the dark, except for candles. I can't remember the song I was singing the most, which means the Holy Spirit was singing it with me and through me.

What I'm trying to tell you is you don't need it to be the Great Tribulation to find out how you will react. There are plenty of other tribulations that will be coming our way to test us. If you have the Holy Spirit in you, you'll find it's quite natural to turn to Him for comfort, and He will give you the comfort you need.

But I also seem to remember Jesus said we should pray for strength to get through it, or that we will be considered worthy enough to not have to go through it.

I'll end with this. If things ever get so bad that you have to die for the name of Jesus, just hope it's a quick death. And if this should happen in America, in our lifetimes, I think we can rest assured that the Lord is nearby.

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I'm ready to do His will, whatever that may be for me.

Yes! :thumbsup:

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Persecution from the Christ-haters is our part, not going God's wrath and through the time of JACOB'S TROUBLE, the tribulation which is going to be localized in the Middle East.

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You think the trib wont be worldwide?

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You think the trib wont be worldwide?

I was just going to ask this also Jade......

Also I would like to know if he believes there is a difference in what most of us think we would have to go through that I would call the tribulation, and Gods Wrath. So to say one is the act of the beast, the other the direct acts of God.

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You think the trib wont be worldwide?

You think the trib wont be worldwide?

I was just going to ask this also Jade......

Also I would like to know if he believes there is a difference in what most of us think we would have to go through that I would call the tribulation, and Gods Wrath. So to say one is the act of the beast, the other the direct acts of God.

What part of "the time of Jacob's trouble" don't ya'll understand. :)
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I will ask too, what makes you think it is worldwide.

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Anti-Christ makes a pact with Israel (time of Jacob's trouble), he enters into the Most Holy Place, Jesus warned the Jews when they see the desolation (defilement of the temple) then flee to a place reserved for you - Petra. Do you really think that the EU is going to dominate the entire planet?

Leaving the house can't reply right away.

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I will ask too, what makes you think it is worldwide.

What is "IT"....????

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You think the trib wont be worldwide?

I was just going to ask this also Jade......

The same it as what you all were talking about - the trib.
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You think the trib wont be worldwide?

I was just going to ask this also Jade......

The same it as what you all were talking about - the trib.

What (to you) is the trib.....

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I will ask too, what makes you think it is worldwide.

Maybe Jesus?

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’a spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.

I've always thought 'It' was worldwide...first time I read otherwise...but why not...the only thing that does not change is God's actual timeline I guess :) and events occurring therein

Seems each thread you read a new position is offered....which is why I hold them all loosely other than pre-trib rapture which I do not believe will occur

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing...just providing the link within the forums here Post #58

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You think the trib wont be worldwide?

You think the trib wont be worldwide?

I was just going to ask this also Jade......

Also I would like to know if he believes there is a difference in what most of us think we would have to go through that I would call the tribulation, and Gods Wrath. So to say one is the act of the beast, the other the direct acts of God.

What part of "the time of Jacob's trouble" don't ya'll understand. :)

I will ask too, what makes you think it is worldwide.

I see. So if I ask a question of you, you wont reply except to ask questions. That isnt a real discussion and Im not interested in games.

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Seems each thread you read a new position is offered....

2 Timothy 4

1. I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

2. Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;

4. and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

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I will agree that is definately not going to change :)

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I suspect the position comes from this verse in Revelation 13

1 And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea.

And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.

Daniel also had a dream regarding four beasts, and this is the interpretation regarding the fourth beast.

Daniel 7:23 "He gave me this explanation: " The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time.

The seat of power the a/c will rise from is ten nations, but as you can see by the underlined section the whole earth will be affected, but you also see that saints will be oppressed and handed over as well and that gets overlooked as well by some. To clarify though that the a/c will have a global effect, refer back to Revelation 13.

13:3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast.

13:7 He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation. 8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.

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I suspect the position comes from this verse in Revelation 13

1 And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea.

And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.

Daniel also had a dream regarding four beasts, and this is the interpretation regarding the fourth beast.

Daniel 7:23 "He gave me this explanation: " The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time.

The seat of power the a/c will rise from is ten nations, but as you can see by the underlined section the whole earth will be affected, but you also see that saints will be oppressed and handed over as well and that gets overlooked as well by some. To clarify though that the a/c will have a global effect, refer back to Revelation 13.

13:3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast.

13:7 He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation. 8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.

Good post. :thumbsup:

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I will ask too, what makes you think it is worldwide.

I don't know, what do you think about rev 3:10, is that the trib? or something else? : 10‘Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
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