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The mark: physical or symbolic?

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#1
*Zion*

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The book of Revelation has a lot of symbols in it, but some people think that it is a book of pure symbolism and not to be taken literally.  Prophecy in nature is extremely symbolic, and my limited logic perceives the reason for this to be because God wants to make His messages to us abundantly clear and hence the deep symbolism.  However, that does not mean we shouldn't take His Word literally, and I know that there are some people who accept most of the Bible as a literal work with literal meaning but stop and change to metaphor and philosophy and substitution interpretation when they hit the book of Revelation.

 

So, is the mark of the beast going to be a literal, physical mark onto the forehead or hand, or is it simply a symbol of indoctrination, propaganda, and ideology forced upon the masses? 

 

Your thoughts please...


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#2
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Literal....   showing your allegiance to the devil.  Once the world goes to a cashless society, the mark can be literally anything.  It doesn't need to be some fancy electronic thing.....   but it could be some electronic thing, just doesn't have to be....

 

Won't matter for if Jesus was right about no one snatching us out of the Fathers hand, we can't take it accidentally or by trickery.    It appears to me though that we won't live long enough to take the mark if we don't worship the beast.......   if you worship the beast it's all over for you and taking the mark is just a formality....   one would already be condemned to hell fire.


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The book of Revelation has a lot of symbols in it, but some people think that it is a book of pure symbolism and not to be taken literally.  Prophecy in nature is extremely symbolic, and my limited logic perceives the reason for this to be because God wants to make His messages to us abundantly clear and hence the deep symbolism.  However, that does not mean we shouldn't take His Word literally, and I know that there are some people who accept most of the Bible as a literal work with literal meaning but stop and change to metaphor and philosophy and substitution interpretation when they hit the book of Revelation.

 

So, is the mark of the beast going to be a literal, physical mark onto the forehead or hand, or is it simply a symbol of indoctrination, propaganda, and ideology forced upon the masses? 

 

Your thoughts please...

 

I think it can be both but it is definitely symbolic and I think the symbolic side of it is really important. If it really was just about a literal mark, that means if they capture you and tatoo 666 on your head, your going to hell. I do not deny a literal representation would be possible but I think the symbolism is what is really going to make the difference.

 

Deu 6:6  And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: 
Deu 6:7  And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. 
Deu 6:8  And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. 
 
The Old Testament is very important to understanding the book of revelation as about 65% of its verses have a different reference to part of the Old Testaments and most if its symbols can be referenced in the Old Testament as well. The Mark of the Beast is no difference. God gave his laws and told them that they shall bind them on the hand and forehead and this was symbolic referring to their acceptance by actions and by their belief. To please God is has to be both actions and well as belief (mind, heart). 
 
Rev 13:16  And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 
 
The Mark of the Beast can be accepted in either the hand or the forehead. Even if you don't believe in it, but you act according to the laws of the beast for fear of your life it is still accepting the mark of the beast. And if for some reason you may not have to do anything, but you believe in the beast and follow him then you accept it as well. But lets see the characteristics of those who do not accept the beast or his mark.
 
Rev 14:11  And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 
Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. 
 
Revelation 14 from verse 6 states the final message to the world during this time and calls all men to worship the true God and not to worship the beast, then it speaks about those who do and what their end would be. It then contrasts those people with the saints who do not accept the beast or his image and describes them as those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.
 
Now there is a direct link between this and Deuteronomy 6 because when this symbolism was first used, it was used as a reference to keeping the commands of God and here again in Revelation those who do not accept the mark of the beast keep the commandments of God. The commandments, ideas, spirit, and laws of the Beast would be in opposition to God;s. It would be impossible to be totally obedient to God and obedient to the beast at the same time. Therefore if you are faithful to God and follow him and his commandments, it would be impossible for you to have the mark of the beast even without knowing exactly what it is. 
 
 

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#4
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    I really enjoy discussing the Bible. There is so much to learn and so much to share.

    I am led to reach my hand out, in love, to those in need.

I believe it will be a literal mark of some sort, reflecting the inner heart of the person, much like tattoos of today do.  Otherwise, how would anyone know not to sell anything to you???


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#5
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A physical mark.This is discussed in Revelation.


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I had read somewhere that the right hand and forehead is symbolic as to ownership. It’s kind of the thought like branding cattle as one would do this if anyone had stolen the cattle they owned. By tracing the brand they could prove it was theirs even if it ends up in another cattle rancher’s field by accident.

The mark of Rev. 13:18 I believe is a literal mark visible enough for others to see this. Since the antichrist also promotes his self religion taking this mark will also be part of that worship to what he will say honor your God whoever the Beast and this image is. So many people that will take the mark will actually be deceived to think it is doing a good thing. That’s why we are warned in the Bible of this mark.

Even if people are told this is good to take God told us we should not ever take this. You will be surprised the kind of world we live in now knows nothing of the book of Revelation. You would think since the mark turns out to be true that everyone would be running away finding out the Bible is true after all. .  Remember in WCW when everyone was for the New World Order even know now represents something dark and Evil.  So I think some people would feel doing this is joining along with everyone else.

Remember what the serpent said in the Garden of Eden. Has God indeed say you may not eat of the Tree of knowledge?  The woman said we may eat of any tree but only not that tree in the midst of the garden. The Serpent said you will surly not die. God thinks if you eat of this true you will become wise like God knowing both good and evil. His lie and temptation got her to eat.

While the Bible commands us God told us not to take the mark the serpent will lie to people and say has God really said so? Don’t let this false god tell you what to do. Where is this Jesus? He is not here. Don’t be surprised if he happens to echo these words saying’ I am the Truth and the life and everyone must go by me.  These are the kinds of things I think may happen along with having to take the mark visible to buy sell and trade. The religious aspect helps us to understand why this number is being taken. It’s more about owner ship not just to buy. Because if it was all just about buying then Discover card would have worked enough.


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#7
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Shalom, *Zion* (or rather, *Tsiown*, the literal name of a mountain or "har" in Isra'el).

 

The book of Revelation has a lot of symbols in it, but some people think that it is a book of pure symbolism and not to be taken literally.  Prophecy in nature is extremely symbolic, and my limited logic perceives the reason for this to be because God wants to make His messages to us abundantly clear and hence the deep symbolism.  However, that does not mean we shouldn't take His Word literally, and I know that there are some people who accept most of the Bible as a literal work with literal meaning but stop and change to metaphor and philosophy and substitution interpretation when they hit the book of Revelation.

 

So, is the mark of the beast going to be a literal, physical mark onto the forehead or hand, or is it simply a symbol of indoctrination, propaganda, and ideology forced upon the masses? 

 

Your thoughts please...

 

It will definitely be a literal, physical mark on the forehead or on the right hand. It needs to be literal and physical because physical people will need to be able to detect it, since its purpose is to determine who can buy or sell products and services.

 

Revelation 13:16-18

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

KJV


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#8
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    Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, unending world. Amen.

The book of Revelation has a lot of symbols in it, but some people think that it is a book of pure symbolism and not to be taken literally. Prophecy in nature is extremely symbolic, and my limited logic perceives the reason for this to be because God wants to make His messages to us abundantly clear and hence the deep symbolism. However, that does not mean we shouldn't take His Word literally, and I know that there are some people who accept most of the Bible as a literal work with literal meaning but stop and change to metaphor and philosophy and substitution interpretation when they hit the book of Revelation.

So, is the mark of the beast going to be a literal, physical mark onto the forehead or hand, or is it simply a symbol of indoctrination, propaganda, and ideology forced upon the masses?

Your thoughts please...

If the mark was a symbolic mark, then the issue of buying and selling will not make sense as you will have to prove your allegiance to Satan.
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#9
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The word "mark" , (such as the "mark" Cain received) in the Hebrew means (sign, ensign, token) so it is symbolic.  The "mark" is a spiritual mark upon the heart and mind of man, just as Gods mark upon His sons is the indwelling of His Word (Christ in us) and His Holy Spirit dwelling in the temple of our body. 

 

It is Gods Word and Spirit that dictates our thoughts and words (written in our foreheads) and also works (written in our right hand).  As it is the spirit of "that Wicked" which controls the thoughts and desires (lusts of their father) of his sons (sons of belial) who have a heart and mind of a natural brute beast (carnally minded).

 

Also, only those who have no oil in their lamps to see need to buy and sell.


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#10
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Physical. Hence, the requirement to buy or sell.


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The book of Revelation has a lot of symbols in it, but some people think that it is a book of pure symbolism and not to be taken literally. Prophecy in nature is extremely symbolic, and my limited logic perceives the reason for this to be because God wants to make His messages to us abundantly clear and hence the deep symbolism. However, that does not mean we shouldn't take His Word literally, and I know that there are some people who accept most of the Bible as a literal work with literal meaning but stop and change to metaphor and philosophy and substitution interpretation when they hit the book of Revelation.

So, is the mark of the beast going to be a literal, physical mark onto the forehead or hand, or is it simply a symbol of indoctrination, propaganda, and ideology forced upon the masses?

Your thoughts please...

If the mark was a symbolic mark, then the issue of buying and selling will not make sense as you will have to prove your allegiance to Satan.

 

Yes.....


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#12
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Shalom, I.S.I.T.

 

The word "mark" , (such as the "mark" Cain received) in the Hebrew means (sign, ensign, token) so it is symbolic.  The "mark" is a spiritual mark upon the heart and mind of man, just as Gods mark upon His sons is the indwelling of His Word (Christ in us) and His Holy Spirit dwelling in the temple of our body. 

 

It is Gods Word and Spirit that dictates our thoughts and words (written in our foreheads) and also works (written in our right hand).  As it is the spirit of "that Wicked" which controls the thoughts and desires (lusts of their father) of his sons (sons of belial) who have a heart and mind of a natural brute beast (carnally minded).

 

Also, only those who have no oil in their lamps to see need to buy and sell.

 

Oh, NO! Not you, too!  Don't mix metaphors! or symbols, or types, or analogies, or anything figurative! The "mark of the beast" has NOTHING to do with "oil in their lamps!" Resist the urge to succumb to allegorical thinking! The allegorical interpretation of Scripture is falsely so-called "spiritual interpretation," but it has NOTHING to do with being truly "spiritual" or listening to the Ruach haQodesh or the Holy Spirit! It is a purely mechanical mixing and matching of things that SOUND similar but have absolutely NO business being together!

 

I am beginning to see allegorical interpretation and its so-called "supernal words" as the nonsense that makes for the perfect storm! It's a cancer on forums such as these and needs to be excised ASAP!

 

Forgive me for being so blunt and urgent, but I've been on the defensive against these infiltrators in other forums FAR too long!

 

An analogy or a metaphor or a simile or a type is STRICTLY for the context of that figure of speech! Once one leaves that context into another context, leave the analogy or metaphor or simile or type behind in its context! God doesn't need our help and creativity to re-invent His Word! I've seen a LOT of nonsense being passed off as "spiritual thinking" and "God's Word!"


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#13
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1 Corinthians 2:14

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

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#14
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Shalom, I.S.I.T.

 

The word "mark" , (such as the "mark" Cain received) in the Hebrew means (sign, ensign, token) so it is symbolic.  The "mark" is a spiritual mark upon the heart and mind of man, just as Gods mark upon His sons is the indwelling of His Word (Christ in us) and His Holy Spirit dwelling in the temple of our body. 

 

It is Gods Word and Spirit that dictates our thoughts and words (written in our foreheads) and also works (written in our right hand).  As it is the spirit of "that Wicked" which controls the thoughts and desires (lusts of their father) of his sons (sons of belial) who have a heart and mind of a natural brute beast (carnally minded).

 

Also, only those who have no oil in their lamps to see need to buy and sell.

 

Oh, NO! Not you, too!  Don't mix metaphors! or symbols, or types, or analogies, or anything figurative! The "mark of the beast" has NOTHING to do with "oil in their lamps!" Resist the urge to succumb to allegorical thinking! The allegorical interpretation of Scripture is falsely so-called "spiritual interpretation," but it has NOTHING to do with being truly "spiritual" or listening to the Ruach haQodesh or the Holy Spirit! It is a purely mechanical mixing and matching of things that SOUND similar but have absolutely NO business being together!

 

I am beginning to see allegorical interpretation and its so-called "supernal words" as the nonsense that makes for the perfect storm! It's a cancer on forums such as these and needs to be excised ASAP!

 

Forgive me for being so blunt and urgent, but I've been on the defensive against these infiltrators in other forums FAR too long!

 

An analogy or a metaphor or a simile or a type is STRICTLY for the context of that figure of speech! Once one leaves that context into another context, leave the analogy or metaphor or simile or type behind in its context! God doesn't need our help and creativity to re-invent His Word! I've seen a LOT of nonsense being passed off as "spiritual thinking" and "God's Word!"

Here we go again Roy, don't feel like you are in the battle alone I'll help all I can


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#15
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Matthew 25:1-12

King James Version (KJV)

25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

 

Proverbs 21:20

There is treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise; but a foolish man spendeth it up.
 
Psalm 49:20
Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.
 

 

2 Peter 2:12

But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
 
 

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#16
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The word "mark" , (such as the "mark" Cain received) in the Hebrew means (sign, ensign, token) so it is symbolic.  The "mark" is a spiritual mark upon the heart and mind of man, just as Gods mark upon His sons is the indwelling of His Word (Christ in us) and His Holy Spirit dwelling in the temple of our body. 

 

It is Gods Word and Spirit that dictates our thoughts and words (written in our foreheads) and also works (written in our right hand).  As it is the spirit of "that Wicked" which controls the thoughts and desires (lusts of their father) of his sons (sons of belial) who have a heart and mind of a natural brute beast (carnally minded).

 

Also, only those who have no oil in their lamps to see need to buy and sell.

 

And how is something symbolic supposed to keep me from killing Cain...

 

and why would you use that word in a new testament passage when we have the Greek wording and the meaning from the Greek.

 

NT:5480

charagma (khar'-ag-mah); from the same as NT:5482; a scratch or etching, i.e. stamp (as a badge of servitude), or sculptured figure (statue):


KJV - graven, mark.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

 

i fail to see how one can get symbol our of a scratch or etching...   also I don't see how a spiritual mark on one's heart and/or mind could keep me from selling him/her something...


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#17
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Matthew 25:1-12

King James Version (KJV)

25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

 

Proverbs 21:20

There is treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise; but a foolish man spendeth it up.
 
Psalm 49:20
Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.
 

 

2 Peter 2:12

But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
 
 

 

 

After reading all the posts, I do think that the mark will be a spiritual thing manifested absolutely physically.  Thank you for your thoughts, I understand and appreciate the connections that you have made; they speak a lot to me about the subject.  I have gained a lot from all the posts that have been contributed to this thread :)


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#18
I.S.I.T.

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Matthew 25:1-12

King James Version (KJV)

25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

 

Proverbs 21:20

There is treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise; but a foolish man spendeth it up.
 
Psalm 49:20
Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.
 

 

2 Peter 2:12

But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
 
 

 

 

After reading all the posts, I do think that the mark will be a spiritual thing manifested absolutely physically.  Thank you for your thoughts, I understand and appreciate the connections that you have made; they speak a lot to me about the subject.  I have gained a lot from all the posts that have been contributed to this thread :)

 

Your welcome.  And keep in mind Jesus said there nothing on the outside of the man, even entering into the body of man, that can defile a man.  For it is the things that come forth from the heart that defile a man.

 

Matthew 15:18-19

King James Version (KJV)

18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

 

When you understand how God marks our hearts and minds by His Word and Spirit dwelling in us, then you will also understand how Satan marks his seed of evil doers as well.

 

Thanks for not hardening your heart to the message, Peace and God bless.


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#19
*Zion*

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Be that as it may, there is no way I will be taking any mark upon, as God makes it just as clear not to do so. :)


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#20
ProphecyKid

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So it is possible that one could not have a physical mark and still have the mark of the beast?


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