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Tongues Evidence?

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#1
donfish06

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Where in the Bible is it recorded that anyone spoke in unknown tongues upon the baptism of the Holy Ghost?



#2
bopeep1909

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1 Corinthians14:6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching?

According to the apostle Paul,and in agreement with the tongues described in Acts 2:1-4,11,speaking in tongues is valuable to the one hearing God's message in his or her own language,but it is useless to everyone else unless it is interpreted/translated.Tongues does not seem to occur today in the manner it did in the New Testament.The vast majority of believers who claim to practice the gift of speaking in tongues do not do so in agreement with the above scriptures mentioned.The gifts of tongues has ceased or is at least a rarity in God's plan for the church today.



#3
Sevenseas

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post no 1: answer coming soon I'm sure

 

post # 2:  not so

 

There are already very well detailed threads that examine the topic to exhaustion.  I'll see if I can find them.



#4
Sevenseas

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Here yah go  It's the most detailed and goes on for 36 pages of discussion.  Exhaustive  ^_^



#5
GoldenEagle

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Where in the Bible is it recorded that anyone spoke in unknown tongues upon the baptism of the Holy Ghost?

 

Before getting to the actual passages of people speaking in tongues perhaps a few things need to be noted. Particularly the order of things when discussing speaking in tongues.

 

A. First the assumption is that all Scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness. Do you agree?

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.


Full passage referenced is 1 Cor. 14:1-40 (Note: this has to do with speaking in tongues in public)

B. Tongues without interpretation is like speaking into the air – it has no purpose.

1 Cor. 14:9
Vs. 9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.


C. Praying in tongues should always follow interpretation. Praying in a tongue nobody understands make the mind unfruitful.

13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. 16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? 17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

D. Paul spoke in tongues. But he mentioned it was better to speak five intelligible words than 10,000 in a tongue.

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

E. Tongues are for the not for the Body of Christ but for unbelievers – that they might hear the Good News of God’s Word and believe that Jesus is Lord!

22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers.

F. Speaking in tongues creates confusion and shows a bad example of Christian order in worship.

23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25 as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”

G. Two to three at the most are to speak in tongues and there must be an interpretation. If there is no interpretation we are instructed not to speak in tongues.

26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

H. Mass prophecy is not Biblical either. The revelation of God is found in His Word. God is the God of order and peace.

29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32 The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.

I. Paul specifically warns that this instruction is the Lord’s command.

36 Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38 But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.

J. Tongues are not prohibited as long as there is order.

39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

Please recieve this in the same spirit of love that it was intended. Your thoughts?

God bles,

GE



#6
GoldenEagle

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Re: A "personal prayer language"

I don't believe (and also don't beleieve there is Scriptural backing that) one must speak in tongues to be saved by Jesus Christ.

I don't believe that all Believers need to speak in tongues (1 Cor. 14:30).

 

1 Corinthians 14:27-31
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.


I don't believe that speaking in tongues privately or "personal prayer language" makes one any more spiritual or less spiritual than someone who does speak in tongues. The gift is given by the Holy Spirit for God's glory anyway...

I believe the Biblical evidence for speaking in a personal prayer language is very limited at best. I believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for edification of the Church and not the individual. (1 Cor. 14:12)

 

1 Corinthians 14:12
Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.


The Holy Spirit can help us overcome even when we don’t know how to pray. The following passage says that this refers to what cannot be uttered or spoken. (Romans 8:26)

Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.


 

That said... Is speaking in tongues in a personal prayer language a salvation issue? Nope. If my brothers and sisters in Christ are given a special language they pray in who am I to say that they can't praise, thank, and petition God in said language? :)

 

God bless,

GE



#7
GoldenEagle

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Where in the Bible is it recorded that anyone spoke in unknown tongues upon the baptism of the Holy Ghost?

 

Here is one passage that speaking in tongues is mentioned...
 

Acts 2:1-13
When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place.
And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

 

Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11 both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12 And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13 But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”



#8
Sevenseas

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I don't believe (and also don't beleieve there is Scriptural backing that) one must speak in tongues to be saved by Jesus Christ.

I don't believe that all Believers need to speak in tongues (1 Cor. 14:30).

 

 

Right.  

 

Paul does say though, that he wishes all would speak in tongues...here:  

 

 

Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.  I Cor 14:5....

 

 

prophesy in this case not meaning to tell of future events, but rather the forthtelling...​in other words, understanding and proclaiming, knowledge etc

 

I thought this was a decent article:  HERE

 

I take exception to someone standing up and speaking in tongues and no one knows what they are saying....but people do it all the time...it is not biblical

 

Sadly, some also give a false interpretation, basing their words on some blessing or other...such as : "God says you are His children"..generic interpretation, while hardly blasphemy, why would

someone need to give a 'message' in tongues for that?

 

Anyway, it certainly is controversial to say the least, yet scripture says:  Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit,  I Cor 14:1

 

I am thinking that a person really needs to study up on this subject to get a proper balance and not get involved in the wrong use of the gifts ...  error

 

I think if a person really does not want to follow scripture on this, is it prob ok...God knows all the error there is out there these days...but I don't think it helpful to

state there is no such thing for us today.  The reason being, that the Bible does not state that.



#9
Reformed Baptist

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Where in the Bible is it recorded that anyone spoke in unknown tongues upon the baptism of the Holy Ghost?

 

What do you mean by 'unknown' do you mean unknown to the speaker, ie other human language that are in use elsewhere in the world, or do you mean unknown tongues to all who are present, or are you referring to heavenly languages that do not actually correspond to any human language. 

 

it may be interesting to note that the Greek language had a perfectly good word that was well used to describe the ecstatic utterances that were part of Greek temple worship, but Pauland Luke  never once use it, instead they refer to a words whose meaning is in relation to human languages -  γλῶσσα and ἑτερόγλωσσος in such discusions



#10
ProphecyKid

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I think the question is whether the person who speaks in tongues knows what he is saying or not. It is believe that speaking in tongues is a personal prayer language that only God understands but the evidence for this in the bible isn't really there.

 

In Acts 2, when the gifts of tongues was poured out for the first time, it does appear that the disciples knew what they were saying. So to address Reformed Baptist's question. I believe the tongue is unknown to those who are listening but not to the speaker. There is no instance in the scripture where you could find the holy spirit taking control of an individual and causing them to do or speak things that they do not have any knowledge of or any control of. Only demon possession works like that. 



#11
donfish06

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I agree with you GE...and in Acts 2:4 they did not speak in "unknown" tongues. There were many in Jerusalem from different "tongues" who understood what they were saying. 

 

I guess there aren't any "tongues is evidence" believers here. My questions were mostly towards them.



#12
donfish06

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I think the question is whether the person who speaks in tongues knows what he is saying or not. It is believe that speaking in tongues is a personal prayer language that only God understands but the evidence for this in the bible isn't really there.

 

In Acts 2, when the gifts of tongues was poured out for the first time, it does appear that the disciples knew what they were saying. So to address Reformed Baptist's question. I believe the tongue is unknown to those who are listening but not to the speaker. There is no instance in the scripture where you could find the holy spirit taking control of an individual and causing them to do or speak things that they do not have any knowledge of or any control of. Only demon possession works like that. 

I don't think the disciples knew what they were saying, but there were people outside who heard them, and they understood. It would be like me speaking spanish (not knowing spanish) and someone who is spanish is nearby to hear. If this were the case, then the act of speaking in tongues was not for me, it was for those who heard it. 



#13
donfish06

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Where in the Bible is it recorded that anyone spoke in unknown tongues upon the baptism of the Holy Ghost?

 

What do you mean by 'unknown' do you mean unknown to the speaker, ie other human language that are in use elsewhere in the world, or do you mean unknown tongues to all who are present, or are you referring to heavenly languages that do not actually correspond to any human language. 

 

it may be interesting to note that the Greek language had a perfectly good word that was well used to describe the ecstatic utterances that were part of Greek temple worship, but Pauland Luke  never once use it, instead they refer to a words whose meaning is in relation to human languages -  γλῶσσα and ἑτερόγλωσσος in such discusions

 

I am referring to someone speaking words that neither them, nor anyone around them can understand. 



#14
ProphecyKid

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I agree with you GE...and in Acts 2:4 they did not speak in "unknown" tongues. There were many in Jerusalem from different "tongues" who understood what they were saying. 

 

I guess there aren't any "tongues is evidence" believers here. My questions were mostly towards them.

 

 

I think the question is whether the person who speaks in tongues knows what he is saying or not. It is believe that speaking in tongues is a personal prayer language that only God understands but the evidence for this in the bible isn't really there.

 

In Acts 2, when the gifts of tongues was poured out for the first time, it does appear that the disciples knew what they were saying. So to address Reformed Baptist's question. I believe the tongue is unknown to those who are listening but not to the speaker. There is no instance in the scripture where you could find the holy spirit taking control of an individual and causing them to do or speak things that they do not have any knowledge of or any control of. Only demon possession works like that. 

I don't think the disciples knew what they were saying, but there were people outside who heard them, and they understood. It would be like me speaking spanish (not knowing spanish) and someone who is spanish is nearby to hear. If this were the case, then the act of speaking in tongues was not for me, it was for those who heard it. 

 

I really can't see how the disciples could not know what they were saying. 

 

See I believe there is a difference between speaking in tongues and having the gift of tongues. The disciples were given the gift of tongues and thus I believe they had the ability to speak what they needed to speak in other tongues. A tongue in a language, so speaking in tongues could be someone who can speak in many different languages that they have previously learned. 



#15
Reformed Baptist

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Where in the Bible is it recorded that anyone spoke in unknown tongues upon the baptism of the Holy Ghost?

 

What do you mean by 'unknown' do you mean unknown to the speaker, ie other human language that are in use elsewhere in the world, or do you mean unknown tongues to all who are present, or are you referring to heavenly languages that do not actually correspond to any human language. 

 

it may be interesting to note that the Greek language had a perfectly good word that was well used to describe the ecstatic utterances that were part of Greek temple worship, but Pauland Luke  never once use it, instead they refer to a words whose meaning is in relation to human languages -  γλῶσσα and ἑτερόγλωσσος in such discusions

 

I am referring to someone speaking words that neither them, nor anyone around them can understand. 

 

But human languages like English, French etc, and not heavenly tongues? 



#16
donfish06

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But human languages like English, French etc, and not heavenly tongues? 

 I am saying that there is no scriptural references of anyone speaking in "unknown heavenly" tongues



#17
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But human languages like English, French etc, and not heavenly tongues? 

 I am saying that there is no scriptural references of anyone speaking in "unknown heavenly" tongues

 

 

 

1 Corinthians 13

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become assounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

 

 

1 Corinthians 14

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

 

.



#18
Joshua-777

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But human languages like English, French etc, and not heavenly tongues? 

 I am saying that there is no scriptural references of anyone speaking in "unknown heavenly" tongues

 

 

 

1 Corinthians 13

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become assounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

 

 

 

1 Corinthians 14

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 Corinthians 14:13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.  14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.  15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

 

 

1 Corinthians 14:28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

 

 

 

 

 

 



#19
donfish06

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But human languages like English, French etc, and not heavenly tongues? 

 I am saying that there is no scriptural references of anyone speaking in "unknown heavenly" tongues

 

 

 

1 Corinthians 13

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become assounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

 

 

1 Corinthians 14

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

 

.

 

By references I meant instances. There are no instances of it



#20
Reformed Baptist

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But human languages like English, French etc, and not heavenly tongues? 

 I am saying that there is no scriptural references of anyone speaking in "unknown heavenly" tongues

 

I would agree entirely






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