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Was Christ ever really in "Christ-Mass?"

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#1
JohnDB

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I thought of starting this in the discussion forum. The subject being not so well received by most prompted me to put it here in controversial issues...

 

Jehovah's Witnesses will use this argument to try to make their cultic beliefs seem true. And old trick of the devil's is to give occasional truth to make himself appear credible.

 

This is why Jesus told the demon spirits to shut up when they were proclaiming him the Son of God. They weren't wrong about that fact. They were wrong about just about everything else and more to the point they were evil. God does not accept worship or credit from evil sources. And truth on a lying tongue is deceitful at best. Politicians use this all the time as well.

 

But cults and malcontents take certain things the Church got wrong and capitalize upon it making themselves seem in the right, and they proceed to lead followers astray and off to whatever opinion / interpolation their leader may have. Some have accused yours truly of doing the same thing. However, I am not trying to develop a following or a pastorate. I have avoided such like the plague because I see what people do to those they follow... and since extremely few Christians step up (accept the ministerial calling we ALL have as priests of God)... I consider a pastorate position (under current conditions) an adult baby sitting job.

 

My intent is only that we follow Christ.

 

To do so properly we must do so on his terms as spelled out in the Bible, not Church tradition... not denominational party lines or statements of faith... not catechisms, papal bulls or decrees...

 

Proverbs 14:12 (KJV)
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

 

Mark 7:7-13 (KJV)
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

Matthew 16:13-23 (KJV)
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

 

Two schools of thought.

 

Only two.

 

God's way...

 

...and not God's way.

 

God's way is in keeping with God's will and desire.

 

Not God's way may have many names and libraries of books and journals written as to how correct they are...

 

...but it's God's universe, God's eternity by his own creation.

 

Two ways.

 

God's way, and not God's way (which includes human reason and is ultimately attributed to Satan which is why Jesus called Peter Satan in Matthew 16:23).

 

This is also why God requires us to test all things.

 

1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV)
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

 

1 John 4:1 (KJV)
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try {{or, test}} the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 

...by the Bible:

 

Acts 17:11 (KJV)
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

 

...including everything I have written here or anywhere.

 

The Bible is our measure of truth.

 

John 17:17 (KJV)
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

 

...to the testing of what we perceive as something from the Holy Spirit. Not by any shortcoming on his part, but rather on our part since we are such poor judges and poor at discerning the genuine Holy Spirit from say a demon posing as an angel of light.

 

Christmas was the invention of the Roman Catholic Empire. Prophecy nuts in the last decades of the 20th Century incorrectly interpreted scriptures to predict the resurrection of the Holy Roman Empire... not realizing it never died out. The Roman Catholic Church is what the Roman Empire transformed into. Capital city still Rome. Emperor / Pope. Senate / Cardinals. Regional governors / Bishops. etc.

 

Constantine may not have fully realized the beast he was birthing when he legalized Christianity... but he saw in persecuted Christianity a cohesiveness his crumbling empire was sorely lacking. And he wanted it for his empire. Traditions make him out to be a Christian convert while historical documents reveal he was a sun worshiper to the day of his death. He and his mother went to work preparing the ground work for that which outlasts kings and kingdoms, empires and emperors, religion. What but religion commands such a fierce loyalty to the sacrifice of self and even one's family...

 

From its inception Roman Catholicism bore the Christian label but adopted pagan practices and dogma at the point of a sword. When druids were absorbed as a concession trees were brought into what would become the Christ Mass theme. This is true about the yule log and on Easter the symbols of eggs and bunnies (pagan fertility symbols of the second fertility feast the Roman Church smeared the name of Christianity upon). The first was Christ Mass (Christmas or as most pronounce it "krissmiss.").

 

The pagan fertility feast Saturnalia was replaced by Christmas, and the pagan fertility feast of Astarte was replaced by Easter...

 

Luke 2:8 speaks of a time when shepherds were still out herding flocks at night which could not be in December.

 

Christ's birth is not required to be celebrated.



#2
bopeep1909

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It is a bunch of bologna.....



#3
other one

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It is a bunch of bologna.....

are you abusing the reputation of one of my favorite meats or telling him that what he is saying is really good? :P



#4
walla299

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It is a bunch of bologna.....

are you abusing the reputation of one of my favorite meats or telling him that what he is saying is really good? :P

 

 

:24: :24:

 

Is this a veiled attempt to sneak in a "Christmas Has Evil Underpinnings" thread? :blink: Enquiring minds would like to know . . . :whistling:



#5
chloe_fantastic

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Better late than never, yeah?



#6
ayin jade

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You are right. It is not required to celebrate Christmas. But neither is someone in sin for doing so.

 

Ya'at'eeh Keshmish (Merry Christmas in Navajo)



#7
kwikphilly

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Merry Christmas Worthy Family!!

    I wonder,was the point in all that just to suggest,"Christs birth is not required to be celebrated"???? The magi & the shepherds who followed that most unusual star to see the tiny,new born King of kings would tend to disagree I am sure,as do I.....but the OP is correct,it is not required of us,it seems there is alot that is not required of us.We are not even required to accept Jesus as our Lord & Savior unless we desire to be reconciled back to our father & be welcome into His Kingdom to partake in Eternal Life!

    It seems on that day that Christ was born all the universe celebrated His arrival,the moon,the stars,the sky.......I think it is befitting the King that we celebrate His birth,His life,His Sacrifice,His death,His resurrection,His Gift,His Name & whatever else we could think of to celebrate as He WAS NOT REQUIRED to take our place on that cross,but He did!Almighty God in Heaven WAS NOT REQUIRED to provide us with our Savior,but He did.................Oh,Glory to God ,praise Jesus!!!!!!Happy Birthday Jesus,thank You-I love You!

                                                                                                                                                 With love,in Christ-Kwik



#8
JohnDB

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It was late and I had been working hard lately.

 

The point was...

 

Untruth about Christ makes it harder to get the truth about Christ across to people (who by nature are prone to believe in lies).

 

The scripture IS truth.  John 17:17

 

Jesus IS truth. John 14:6

 

Without a doubt, the advent of the Creator become a human being was the second greatest thing to ever happen in all history (universal or eternal). The greatest thing was the Lord Jesus' resurrection conquering death... which would not have been possible without the second greatest thing happening first!

 

This is what all the excitement was about with the angels and shepherds and two years later the magi...

 

But let's not kid ourselves about it. The appeal to all nations languages and creeds is not about the Christ aspect but about the humanist appeal to the masses "Peace on earth good will toward man..." And Santa Claus, and reindeer and jingle bells and decorated trees and gifts exchanged and family (modern family) get-togethers... and then there's the noble effort of linking the birth of Jesus with it all...

 

Again, it was a Holy Roman Empire effort to "Christianize" a pagan fertility holiday saturnalia.

 

Jesus was probably born around the time of the feat of tabernacles (September-October) which the Gospel of John hints in the mention in John 1:14 in the Greek "he tabernacled among us..."

 

But there is no mention of what date it was or what feast it was in or near. Because it was not to be celebrated / commemorated. Jesus did commission one event for the Church to commemorate till he returns... his death.

 

The last supper / the third cup of Passover Seder and the afikhomen (broken matzo).

 

I am not here to rain on parades. Have a wonderful Kriss Miss! Enjoy your family and friends and treats and sweets and feasts and gifts...

 

Just don't palm it off on Jesus.

 

I adore the way kwik tells Jesus she loves him!

 

Wonderful!

 

We should all love Jesus more than anyone or anything!

 

Including more than we love the man-made things like Christmas.

 

What difference does it make? You ask...

 

Christ in Christmas is not true.

 

And IF we REALLY love Jesus...

 

wouldn't we be concerned about getting to the truth about him?

 

The pageantry and pomp of stained glass lore and myth may play well to the human psyche along with thrumming pipe organ music.

 

But what good is it if it's not true?

 

Shouldn't we want to know the real Jesus?

 

What is it that Jesus said to the workers of iniquity?

 

Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

If we earnestly seek him we will find him... if we seek a Lord of our own wills, wishes, likenesses (putting ourselves on the throne even if abstractly) we are not humbling ourselves to him or truly seeking him...



#9
JohnDB

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It is a bunch of bologna.....

 

Ah, my favorite Hebrew word... and one of my favorite meats!

 

How so, Bo?

 

Please use scripture as much as you can to make your point. Thanks!

 

MERRY CHRISTMAS



#10
JohnDB

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How else could it be but that a holiday that Jesus never really was in or it was never really about could end up like this commercialized holiday?

 

commercialized-christmas.jpg

 



#11
other one

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I posted a video some time ago about what happened a couple of thousand years ago.....   and while Jesus was definitely not born on this day......   there is a very good possibility that it is the day that the Maggi paid him a visit and gave him the gifts.

 

 

How we transitioned from giving gifts to Jesus to the mess we have today is a different story....    and I really don't know if the people in the first century even celebrated his or anyone's birthday.....

 

So I would leave it up to the individual as to what he/she wants to do.....    all I know is that I'm going to go visit five or six brother in law families that I haven't seen for two years and we are going to have a ball as we always do when we are together.  Short of someone falling down dead we will eat well, laugh a lot and be tired when we get back home....

 

Presents we might give will go to the salvation army for that group of people helped my relatives a great deal when they were growing up..   We don't have a Christmas tree or lights (other than one big old poinsettia)   but I do like to drive around and look at yours.   I attend a Nazarene Church so we do the usual Christmas stuff and tie the pagan holiday as well as one can to the Birth, Death and Life of Jesus.....   and no we are not commanded to do so......   but it seems to bring us closer to God and it's really hard to put that down as a bad thing....

 

So, I'm going with the first Christmas being the day that the kings of the Orient we sing about came to worship the toddler Jesus on December 25th, 1 BCE.....



#12
bopeep1909

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It is a bunch of bologna.....

are you abusing the reputation of one of my favorite meats or telling him that what he is saying is really good? :P

 

207d32089ca663c95165bb42147e3eb9.jpgNo way.I love the stuff too  :mgcheerful:



#13
GoldenEagle

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Closed for review.

There is already one "Christmas is evil" thread going on: is christmas based on pagan underpinnings?






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