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Proof we will be with the Lord when we die

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#1
JohnDB

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2 Corinthians 5:1-10 (KJV)
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

The account of Luke 16:19-31 (Rich Man and Lazarus in Hades) was before the cross. This is where Jesus went when he died on the cross.

 

1 Peter 3:18-22 (KJV)
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

 

This is what is referred to in:

 

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV)
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

 

Before the cross the entry to heaven was unavailable even to the faithful (sons of Abraham). This spiritual waiting chamber was part of Hades. But the suffering was in the other chamber of Hades on the far side of the great gulf / abyss where the angels who possessed men and animals were imprisoned upon the death of the host or their being exorcised from them.

 

I have made up a diagram (if it's permitted here):

 

Sheol2.jpg

 

 

All of the occupants of Hades were and are in spirit form. The bodies of people are still in their graves. The only resurrection to have taken place is Jesus who is both Spiritually and  physically in heaven. When the inhabitants of Abraham's Bosom were taken to heaven... this was also in spirit form. As the opening verses of this post indicate when we are absent from our bodies (as believers in Jesus) we are present with the Lord in heaven in disembodied spirits.

 

When Jesus returns with the (spirits of ) the saints, their dead bodies will rise first in the resurrection / coming of our Lord. We who are alive on earth in our bodies will be instantaneously changed. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

 

Jesus also spent the majority of the three days his body was in the tomb in heaven in his disembodied state. As he told the thief on the cross they'd be in heaven by sunset. John 20:17 says he had not yet ascended to the Father (meaning in his bodily resurrected form) btw.



#2
bopeep1909

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Yes,when we die we will go immediatedly to heaven if we are a believer or hades if we are a nonbeliever.



#3
JohnDB

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Thank you, sister, I mistakenly left off the word immediately in the title.

 

I appreciate you.



#4
bopeep1909

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Thanks  :mgcheerful:  The Word of God is the best resource.



#5
Guest_DRS81_*

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As the opening verses of this post indicate when we are absent from our bodies (as believers in Jesus) we are present with the Lord in heaven in disembodied spirits.

 

Blessings JohnDB. Do you think Revelation 21:4 is also talking about (right after we die) in our spirits? No more pain? or does Rev 21:4 only occur on the new earth?



#6
Spock

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I didn't know this was a debatable topic. I guess a few people might believe we go into some soulllllllllll sleep.

Wake me up when the marriage supper begins; I'm sure I will be hungry. Good night....

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ;)

#7
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Personally, I don't think it matters.



#8
Izzel

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Yes,when we die we will go immediatedly to heaven if we are a believer or hades if we are a nonbeliever.

All go to one place both good and evil 

 

Ecclesiastes 3:19-21

King James Version (KJV)

19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downwardto the earth?



#9
Izzel

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Acts 2:34

King James Version (KJV)

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,



#10
shiloh357

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Acts 2:34

King James Version (KJV)

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

 

That is referring David's body.  David is in heaven, but  he has not ascended physically  to heaven



#11
Izzel

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Acts 2:34

King James Version (KJV)

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

 

That is referring David's body.  David is in heaven, but  he has not ascended physically  to heaven

 

 

 

Is David Concious in the heavens , that is watching down at us ?



#12
fruitfull77

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In the book of John 3:13, Jesus says " And no man (nobody) hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven "

Jesus spent His ministry talking about the Kingdom of God on earth and the resurrection of the saints when He returns at the second coming.In Hebrews 11 talks about even the greatest saints have not received the promises of eternal life yet.

If salvation is our reward Revelation 22:12 tells us Jesus is returning to earth and He is bringing that reward for us. 

If people already have their spiritual gift in heaven why does Jesus have to come back to earth to give it to us.

I wouldn't want to be up in heaven floating on a cloud while Jesus is here on earth ruling the nations after His return.

Rev 20 shows that we will be with Him reigning alongside on this great new world.



#13
Jack Mann

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According to Matthew 25:31-46 only the "righteous" will inherit the kingdom prepared for YOU from the foundation of the world..

The text informs that Jesus will return as KING to separate the righteous from the unrighteous.

I note that He is King upon his return with "ALL the holy angels with him." This being true, He will NOT be crowned as King seated upon a Jewish throne.

Makes quite a difference in how one perceives eschatology.

 

Noting 2 Corinthians 5:21, God made him (Jesus) to be sin for US (you and me) who knew no sin that we might be made the righteousness of God IN HIM."

Here, Paul informs man how he can "be made" righteous------ "In him."

We are informed in many verses in the New Testament how one is viewed "in him" by God. Galatians 3:27 is a perfect example as Romans 6:3.

"Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Romans 10:17). The Bible does not teach a moral change by a miraculous conversion.

Give diligence, present yourself approved unto God, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15).



#14
ENOCH2010

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Where there is no proof, there is faith !!!!!



#15
Butch5

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2 Corinthians 5:1-10 (KJV)
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

The account of Luke 16:19-31 (Rich Man and Lazarus in Hades) was before the cross. This is where Jesus went when he died on the cross.

 

1 Peter 3:18-22 (KJV)
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

 

This is what is referred to in:

 

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV)
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

 

Before the cross the entry to heaven was unavailable even to the faithful (sons of Abraham). This spiritual waiting chamber was part of Hades. But the suffering was in the other chamber of Hades on the far side of the great gulf / abyss where the angels who possessed men and animals were imprisoned upon the death of the host or their being exorcised from them.

 

I have made up a diagram (if it's permitted here):

 

Sheol2.jpg

 

 

All of the occupants of Hades were and are in spirit form. The bodies of people are still in their graves. The only resurrection to have taken place is Jesus who is both Spiritually and  physically in heaven. When the inhabitants of Abraham's Bosom were taken to heaven... this was also in spirit form. As the opening verses of this post indicate when we are absent from our bodies (as believers in Jesus) we are present with the Lord in heaven in disembodied spirits.

 

When Jesus returns with the (spirits of ) the saints, their dead bodies will rise first in the resurrection / coming of our Lord. We who are alive on earth in our bodies will be instantaneously changed. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

 

Jesus also spent the majority of the three days his body was in the tomb in heaven in his disembodied state. As he told the thief on the cross they'd be in heaven by sunset. John 20:17 says he had not yet ascended to the Father (meaning in his bodily resurrected form) btw.

John, 

 

These passages are not talking about people living on as ghost after their bodies die. In 2 Cor. 5 Paul actually states that he's "Not" looking to be unclothed (without a body) but rather overclothed. His statement is in regard to the resurrection not to a state of being between death and the resurrection.



#16
Butch5

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Acts 2:34

King James Version (KJV)

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

 

That is referring David's body.  David is in heaven, but  he has not ascended physically  to heaven

 

Neither David, nor any other human, except Jesus, is in Heaven.



#17
Reformed Baptist

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1 Peter 3:18-22 is not speaking where Jesus went after he died, there is a transition of thought between v18 and v19 as signified and emphasized by the phrase ἐν ᾧ καὶ



#18
kwikphilly

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Blessings Everyone,

      Many assumptions are made that Jesus went down to Hades after the Resurrection into Heaven,having ascended after  He went to preach to the prisoners we see that He went somewhere , but where  we really do not know(wherever the prisoners were).......Catholicism teaches that He first descended into Hell but the Scriptures do not say that.......

     Izzel,the BODIES of both believer & non-believer,good or evil go to the same place(the dirt)but the spirit as it is clearly shown in your own post of Eccl.,God knows

      The Scriptures tell us that when we die ,we know not...we are asleep....until Jesus return I am not thinking the dead is alive yet with Christ ... BUT,God not being bound by space or time has me to ponder that in the other dimensions & the Heavens perhaps are already in that future that we have not yet reached(.I don't mean to sound like a Sci Fi movie but Jesus said we could not possibly understand the Heavenly things)& I just cannot put any limitations on God & certainly not by human standards,time,space,place or anything else.

      Okay,so now that y'all think I am crazy-lol....I just mean to say,I know Gods ways are not mine  & I know eventually we all(His Body)will be with Him........ if I sleep for a time first ,that is just fine........as long as my name is written in the Lambs Book of Life He is welcome to my spirit whenever,however & wherever and I cannot wait to get with the others to sing,HOLY,HOLY,HOLY!!!!!!whew,Glory to God!

                                                                                                                    With love,in Christ-Kwik



#19
Spock

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Blessings Everyone,
      Many assumptions are made that Jesus went down to Hades after the Resurrection into Heaven,having ascended after  He went to preach to the prisoners we see that He went somewhere , but where  we really do not know(wherever the prisoners were).......Catholicism teaches that He first descended into Hell but the Scriptures do not say that.......
     Izzel,the BODIES of both believer & non-believer,good or evil go to the same place(the dirt)but the spirit as it is clearly shown in your own post of Eccl.,God knows
      The Scriptures tell us that when we die ,we know not...we are asleep....until Jesus return I am not thinking the dead is alive yet with Christ ... BUT,God not being bound by space or time has me to ponder that in the other dimensions & the Heavens perhaps are already in that future that we have not yet reached(.I don't mean to sound like a Sci Fi movie but Jesus said we could not possibly understand the Heavenly things)& I just cannot put any limitations on God & certainly not by human standards,time,space,place or anything else.
      Okay,so now that y'all think I am crazy-lol....I just mean to say,I know Gods ways are not mine  & I know eventually we all(His Body)will be with Him........ if I sleep for a time first ,that is just fine........as long as my name is written in the Lambs Book of Life He is welcome to my spirit whenever,however & wherever and I cannot wait to get with the others to sing,HOLY,HOLY,HOLY!!!!!!whew,Glory to God!
                                                                                                                    With love,in Christ-Kwik


I have no problem with a little zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz either.

I'm so far behind, it might be nice to catch up.

PS. Glad to see you are a Trekkie fan too (sci if rocks)

#20
Reformed Baptist

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The Scriptures tell us that when we die ,we know not...we are asleep

 

On the contrary the scripture say that when we die in Christ we go to be with Christ Jesus, Take Paul desire for example, as expressed in Phil 1:21-23.

 

"For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. For I am hard pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better."
 
Clearly Paul expect to be with Christ as soon as he died - and it is not surprising really because the Lord Jesus promised exactly the same thing, to the thief who was daying on the cross next to him he said,  "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." (Luk 23:43 NKJ)





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