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The most dangerous teaching growing high in numbers

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#1
OakWood

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As far as I am aware, preterists are still saved. They're just confused.


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#2
veryberry

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eph 6:12-18.

it is a spiritual battle. Put your armour on. Have faith.

I think I know what forum you are talking about. Mark him as an heretic and move on.
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#3
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The problem is caused because people misinterpret the prophecies, this has led to many errant beliefs.  Preterists and amillenialists properly recognize that the prophecy regarding Jacob's time of trouble have already been fulfilled, so they believe that the tribulation began then.  The problem is, these are two different prophecies that do not go together.

 

In Jeremiah, we see this.

 

Jeremiah 29:10 This is what the Lord says: “When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my good promise to bring you back to this place. 11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back from captivity.  I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile.”

 

This is where the confusion enters, people assume 70 years for Babylon operate under the same time clock as Daniel's 70 weeks.  Babylon is not Israel, Israel's 70th week was delayed, Babylon's is not.  The Lord is clear that the time of Jacob's trouble revolves around their exile, and through chapter 30 we see that the things prophesied are dealing with issues of this world, not an eternal one.  These prophecies have been fulfilled already.

 

Jeremiah 30:10 “‘So do not be afraid, Jacob my servant;
    do not be dismayed, Israel,’
declares the Lord.
‘I will surely save you out of a distant place,
    your descendants from the land of their exile.
Jacob will again have peace and security,
    and no one will make him afraid.
11 I am with you and will save you,’
    declares the Lord.
Though I completely destroy all the nations
    among which I scatter you,
    I will not completely destroy you.

I will discipline you but only in due measure;
    I will not let you go entirely unpunished.’

 

This has been fulfilled, these are events that follow the time of Jacob's trouble.

 

Jeremiah 30:16 “‘But all who devour you will be devoured;
    all your enemies will go into exile.
Those who plunder you will be plundered;
    all who make spoil of you I will despoil.
17 But I will restore you to health
    and heal your wounds,’
declares the Lord,
‘because you are called an outcast,
    Zion for whom no one cares.’

 

This has been fulfilled.

 

Jeremiah 30:

18 “This is what the Lord says:

“‘I will restore the fortunes of Jacob’s tents
    and have compassion on his dwellings;
the city will be rebuilt on her ruins,
    and the palace will stand in its proper place.

 

This has been fulfilled.

 

Jeremiah 30:21 Their leader will be one of their own;
    their ruler will arise from among them.

 

We see here that at this time, Israel will not be ruled by a king as was the case in the past, nor does it refer to the Lord.  Instead he is a leader, or how about prime minister.  Chapter 30 closes by saying 'in days to come you will understand this.'  This makes it clear that there are days still to come, and as we get into chapter 31 we see that the tone shifts from things of this world to things of an eternal nature as the chapter progresses.

 

Jeremiah 31

 “At that time,” declares the Lord, “I will be the God of all the families of Israel, and they will be my people.”

This is what the Lord says:

“The people who survive the sword
    will find favor in the wilderness;
    I will come to give rest to Israel.”

 

Here we see Jeremiah reference Hosea's prophecy and what John records in Revelation 12, this prophecy is still a future event.

 

Jeremiah 31:See, I will bring them from the land of the north
    and gather them from the ends of the earth.
Among them will be the blind and the lame,
    expectant mothers and women in labor;
    a great throng will return.
They will come with weeping;
    they will pray as I bring them back.
I will lead them beside streams of water
    on a level path where they will not stumble,
because I am Israel’s father,
    and Ephraim is my firstborn son.

 

This prophecy is being fulfilled as we speak.

 

Jeremiah 31:11 For the Lord will deliver Jacob
    and redeem them from the hand of those stronger than they.
12 They will come and shout for joy on the heights of Zion;
    they will rejoice in the bounty of the Lord
the grain, the new wine and the olive oil,
    the young of the flocks and herds.
They will be like a well-watered garden,
    and they will sorrow no more.

 

In this passage we see we finally arrive at the end, no more sorrow.  We all know when this takes place, the end of the age.  Remember that Jesus only references one old testament prophet in Matthew 24, Daniel.  The reason is simple, He was making it clear that Daniel's vision is directly related to the end times, which is not the case with the time of Jacob's trouble.  Only John and Daniel received this vision, the other prophets were told what to say by the Lord Himself in regards to the end times.

 

The time of Jacob's trouble was specifically for the nation Israel, which is why it was called Jacob's trouble.  The great tribulation is a time of trouble for the entire world, not just one nation.  This is why it is called the 'great tribulation', because it is a world wide event that eventually ends in the total destruction of both the heaven and earth, and the ushering in of a new heaven and earth, perfection.

 


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#4
OakWood

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I think the title is misleading. I don't see preterism as the most dangerous of teachings. Dangerous maybe, but not the most dangerous. It's not exactly blasphemy, just a terrible misinterpretation of scripture.

The most dangerous of teachings are the ones that cause people to lose their salvation such as Satanism, or telling people that all religions lead to God and Christ is not the only way. Or false teachings and heresies within churches that cause people to accept sins as being good things.

Preterism is just a peculiarity based on poor scriptural knowledge and poor knowledge of history.


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#5
bopeep1909

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Yes,a person will not go to hell for believing this.They would go to hell for not believing in Jesus Christ.


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#6
kingdomwitness

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I have some questions for preterists. When did the judgement happen if Revelation is past? How were the saints gathered? Why wasn't there a rapture when Antiochus Epiphanes desecrated the temple and why wasn't that the end of Daniel's prophecy of 70 weeks? These are points to consider
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#7
WillfromTexas

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If I encountered one I'd just encourage them to study their Bible.  I'm not sure how anyone would believe it's already happened if they knew their Bible.

 

Not sure if it's the most dangerous, but it isn't good to say the least.  Especially since the End Times are right upon us and Revelation is unfolding right before our eyes.


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#8
kingdomwitness

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If I encountered one I'd just encourage them to study their Bible. I'm not sure how anyone would believe it's already happened if they knew their Bible.

Not sure if it's the most dangerous, but it isn't good to say the least. Especially since the End Times are right upon us and Revelation is unfolding right before our eyes.

That's right brother!
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#9
GlidingWings

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Ok, I should have titled this a dangerous Bible prophecy. I guess I chose this title at the time because using the most dangerous would emphasize a strong statement against future Bible prophecy. I know this is not the most dangerous teaching. But rather one of the most dangerous Prophecy teaching making many not to be ready at all.

 

Please I would like to share why I put in this post. And hopefully then you will understand perhaps hopefully. Well friends recently I was posting at another Christian forum which I got into a great debate in the Prophecy section. What I did not realize that there was a ‘preturist section” allowing this to be discussed. When I actually thought I was in regular End times. Yes very berry you are correct. The site that I speak of is the same one you know. This poster is very memorized in Preterism. Believe me you would be pulling out your hair.

 

I've never before gone up against a Preterist believer such as this person. But I wanted to give it a try. What became difficult is this poster proves to be at the same time provoking in his words to make us futurists angry. He will say I'm laughing. He will put dancing emoticons saying yeah I got you there.

I should have just walked away? Perhaps. But I still wanted to to take time to debate this teaching. We were discussing 70 weeks of Daniel fulfillment. Less studied I did some home reading on this topic to get a little Pastoral input a for these verses. Of course all pastors with future kind of thinking like I have.

This was long discussion on several hundred replies. It was like the never ending OJ Simpson trial. Let's get this over with. My girlfriend was observing everything. She told me this guy is like a snake sneaky in his words. She is not even into Bible prophecy but easy to find the gaps in his theory. He said for exactly the first resurrection took place right after 70 AD which included Paul and the 2Thess Church also got raptured at that time into Heaven. The poster says Paul says “We” that are alive shall be caught up with them in the clouds. He said Paul meant we back then only those people would see this rapture and first resurrection happened right after 70 AD Jerusalem temple destruction. Then this poster laughs. Ha haha. A third temple in thee Future. It will never happen.

 

Do you now see the predicament I was in? Thankfully another futurist was working along with me. This allowed me to take breaks to do some reading study in between to come back with later replies. Actually I replied less than most everyone else.

Eventually I finally got out of this debate. Enough was enough. 2 days after I left the thread was locked because both sides were saying harsh things. So why is this teaching so dangerous in the Church? Because God is the spirit of Truth. We must at our best to represent God making the Word of God to be true using much discernment and reliance on God and the Holy Spirit which is Truth. . God does not lie and that becomes a big issue. To make some wrong interpretations here and there is acceptable for which we are human and all do make mistakes. But when interpretations totally change things around completely this has become a great dilemma.

Imagine in your area ten churches. 7 of them are preterist and 3 of them futurist. Is that a scary thought? Well friends that just may happen if this gets out of hand. . and then you will know why this is so dangerous to be taught or believed. Because people are looking for satisfying I don't want to suffer at all interpretations. Preterist offers that “non suffering” teaching everyone is fine and dandy. But think again God is the spirit of Truth.

John 4:24

God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

John 4:23-25 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

 

We are told specifically to take heed and watch closely the signs of the end. If they teach there is no signs they are posting against God's commandment “Ye therefor watch these things” so breaking this commandment is troubling.

So millions of Christians believing this will be relaxing all the time just to find out there are future prophecy events after all. This leaves them unprepared in every aspect of things. No one wants to find out troubling news the last moment with with no time to prepare.

What if someone said to you join our wedding today? But we already had a doctor appt. Are you ready for this wedding announced on the same day?. Certainly not. And you would be annoyed with this friend who told you the last minute.. Because also remember the Ten Virgins also is a commandment from God for Christians to be ready. Those who are not ready will be”Left Behind” to miss the Rapture.

That’s why Preterism is dangerous the unready is proven to ‘not’ be saved after all. They not ready was not a part of the wedding supper of the lamb. So thus watch for “ The Thief in the night. So it is because of these scriptures ten virgins thief in the night why I posted this. Because we are commanded to watch in which preterism teaches exactly the opposite. Watch for signs. They laugh. It all has happened. They yawn in your face in mockery.

So in my opinion this is a very dangerous teaching Prophecy wise.. As being the most dangerous I agree with everyone on that. This is not the most dangerous Church teaching as some Churches teach Christianity Islam combo or Churches that talk to dead spirits. Yes I agree those Churches are much more dangerous than preterism But I think we should witness to those who we meet that may believe in in correct Bible Doctrine. As Jesus told us beware of the yeast.

Mark 8:15

Then He charged them, saying, “Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod.”

Mark 8:14-16 (in Context) Mark 8 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations


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#10
Qnts2

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I think the title is misleading. I don't see preterism as the most dangerous of teachings. Dangerous maybe, but not the most dangerous. It's not exactly blasphemy, just a terrible misinterpretation of scripture.

The most dangerous of teachings are the ones that cause people to lose their salvation such as Satanism, or telling people that all religions lead to God and Christ is not the only way. Or false teachings and heresies within churches that cause people to accept sins as being good things.

Preterism is just a peculiarity based on poor scriptural knowledge and poor knowledge of history.

 

From my view, preterism must interpret much of scripture as symbolic, not literal. So in the case of Israel, the promises are not really and literally given to Israel and therefore Israel has no future promises. What impact does this have to the Jewish people? Well, from the preterist view vs the Jewish view, preterism teaches that God in the NT lied to the Jewish people.  So, if the preterist view teaches that God lied to the Jewish people and the NT is the revelation of Jesus, can Jesus be viewed as the Messiah? In otherwords, the full preterist theology would lead Jewish people to reject Jesus as the Messiah.


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#11
kingdomwitness

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Preterism could be an error. But I also interpret bible prophecies as symbolic and I discovered that for the future to be clearer, one must sometimes refer to the past.
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#12
Qnts2

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Preterism could be an error. But I also interpret bible prophecies as symbolic and I discovered that for the future to be clearer, one must sometimes refer to the past.

 

It depends on what you mean as 'symbolic'.

 

For example, there were many prophesies that the children of Israel would be scattered from the land of Israel and live among the gentiles. These prophesies were told to the Jewish people before the scattering, and later they were literally scattered. Among the prophesies of the scattering, the prophets also told the Jewish people before the scattering, that a time would come when the Jewish people would be brought back into the land of Israel. Since the prophesy given to the children of Israel said they would be scattered, and that happened to the children of Israel, it is very simple to believe that God will literally re-gather the children of Israel into the land, and the Messiah will come and defeat Israels enemies. But, many see the regathering and the Messiah coming to Israel as symbolic, in that they believe God did not really mean literal, physical Israel, but now means the 'Church', mostly Gentiles. Of course, Jewish people see that kind of teaching as telling them that God lied to them. The first part, the bad part literally happened, but the regathering won't literally happen to the Jewish people.  

 

If symbolism, or spiritualized interpretation contradicts the literal or plain meaning of the text, then it is problematic.


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#13
kingdomwitness

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Not all prophecies in the bible are symbolic. For example The war of Gog and Magog and a gathering of a faithful remnant of Israelites. These are literal to me.
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