Jump to content

christian forums

Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Forums

Welcome to Worthy Christian Forums
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

The most dangerous teaching growing high in numbers

* * * * * 1 votes

This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
16 replies to this topic

#1
GlidingWings

GlidingWings

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 435 posts

Let’s suppose you made a new Christian friend and you are both sitting down for lunch eating and talking. Your friend tells you about his Faith in Jesus. Everything of course is fine and well. Then you ask this person are you ever worried about the end times coming tribulation? Do you often think about End time Bible prophecy you ask this new Christian friend? They answer and tell you sure I have Faith in Jesus but I don't believe in End times prophecy. I don’t believe there will be a 7 year Tribulation. I don’t believe any of that.

 

Then you say how can this be? You’re a Christian and you don’t believe in Future Bible Prophecy? No says the friend I don’t. Everything happened back when Jesus died don the cross. And all was fulfilled by 70 AD. All prophecy is past and there is no future prophecy. Have you ever met anyone like this? Recently I have at another posting forum. These teaching that believes Prophecy and scripture pertains only to the past 70 AD is called ‘Preterism’ pre meaning before or before meaning past. Every scripture and verse in the Bible in this teaching all must state in past context. This teaching for example will take Matthew 24 everything completed by 70 AD. They believe this abomination happened in 66 - 70 AD. which is also why they believe Rev. chapter 17 Jerusalem is the great harlot from 66-70 AD..

 

OK to think you can try to convince this person the the future is still ahead. Share with them 1Thess 4:16-17. . you got them on this one right? Wrong. Now the Preterist will say this. Paul said We who are alive shall not all sleep but we will be caught up with those who were asleep to meet the Lord in the air. What do ‘They say of this? They say when Paul says “We” He meant that Jesus would be gathering this early church to be with God which happened after the destruction of the temple. This gathering they say happens near the destruction of Jerusalem. When Paul said “We” Paul was meaning those people who were standing there would see this gathering to Jesus in the air. So Paul and these people were gathered as spoken in Matthew 24 the gathering after the destruction of the temple immediately after those days..

 

I tried to corner the Preterist believers. But every time you share them a future event they will come with their own interpretation to reverse the time calendar and to give different meanings to the passages. They believe the 70 weeks was completed 3 and a half years after Jesus died when Stephen was stoned. That is Preterism..

Why do I share to you these things? Because ten years ago I heard from a Prophetic Ministry of End time Teaching that Preterism even ten years ago was paving its way into college campuses, churches and other arenas in high numbers. Imagine how many people are not believing and teaching this doctrine reverse method of Prophecy teaching. I am now seeing this teaching show up more commonly than ever before.

 

The Bible tell us in Matthew 24. To take heed which means to pay close attention. It told us many would go in the name of Christ and they will deceive many even the elect God’s people if that were possible. .

 

This teaching Preterist comes/goes in the name of Christ appearing as a sheep and devouring its prey as the wolf. This is very snaky slithering teaching. New converts of this teaching is growing all the time. You need to be on watch if you meet such a person or people who believe this. If you want to witness have your Bible near by. . you're going to have be ready to defend against this person who will say to you that your Futurist view is nonsense. They will say you are not teaching the truth. They will say listen to my way. Everything is past finalized 70 AD. The the 70 weeks ended 3 and a half years after Jesus died. They will say when Jesus died on the cross everything and all prophecy was finalized.. Be on the watch to this rising teaching to make yourself ready to defend your own faith in this way you believe in Future prophecy. If you don't have good answers why you can't explain why you believe in futurism they will think yo don’t know anything much at all. They will make every attempt to swoop you into believing like they do..

 

Would other members here like to make comments on this teaching Preterism? Have you ever met or experienced talking or posting with this kind of person? How did you respond to this kind of teaching? What do yo believe about preterism? How should we practice the Bible to be ready for those right answers challenged by these Preterist teachers? . They will try to pull you on their side with clever verses. Stay on guard. ‘Do not have an open mind. Stay in the truth stay in the narrow way of thinking. Those who are open minded often get sucked in.

Philippians 4:6-7

6 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; 7 and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.



#2
bopeep1909

bopeep1909

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,892 posts

The preterist interpretation of scripture regards the book of Revelation as a symbolic picture of early church conflicts,not a description of what will occur in the end times.Preterism denies the future prophetic quality of most of the book of Revelation.

I read it,believe it,and obey it - literally and exactly.



#3
Spock

Spock

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,210 posts
I would think almost half of churchianity believes in what you said. Catholics and Presbyterian for two.

Honestly, I don't concern myself too much with minor doctrines (not a salvation issue). By that I mean, I'm not trying to make converts to my way of thinking, even though I believe I am right in my thinking here (premillennialism ). Even a preterist can be passionate about loving The Lord and loving ones neighbor.

I never try to win people over by banging them on the head. With people like that, if the opportunity arises, I share my perspective and allow for the Holy Spirit to illuminate.

Who knows, maybe the HS won't illuminate because I am wrong and they are right. Lol

Edited by Spock, 08 January 2014 - 06:50 PM.


#4
ARGOSY

ARGOSY

    Veteran Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 884 posts

I believe preterism is a dangerous doctrine for us end-times believers because it dilutes the warnings that we have been given about the tribulation period. But many preterists are very pleasant saved believers, like Spock I also do not believe our eschatology is central to our faith or worthy of quarelling over.

 

Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters.

 

Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, instruction about cleansing rites,[b] the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 

 

If these preterists are sound on the basics, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment, then I don't believe the rest is worth quarelling over.

 

I believe some amillenial partial preterists are not far off the truth, they acknowledge the second coming and often even acknowledge a short period of wrath, very similar to the tribulation.

 

I am a partial "partial preterist" in that I believe that some small parts of Daniel 8,  and some of Daniel 11 are historical, and I believe much of the Olivet discourse is historical, and the tribulation of Daniel 9:27 is only 3.5 years long, not seven years.  I see this confirmed in the New Testament because the New Testament only mentions a 3.5 year period, and does not mention any peace treaty.



#5
OakWood

OakWood

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,078 posts

As far as I am aware, preterists are still saved. They're just confused.



#6
veryberry

veryberry
  • Members
  • 38 posts
eph 6:12-18.

it is a spiritual battle. Put your armour on. Have faith.

I think I know what forum you are talking about. Mark him as an heretic and move on.

#7
wingnut-

wingnut-

    Senior Member

  • Platinum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,713 posts

The problem is caused because people misinterpret the prophecies, this has led to many errant beliefs.  Preterists and amillenialists properly recognize that the prophecy regarding Jacob's time of trouble have already been fulfilled, so they believe that the tribulation began then.  The problem is, these are two different prophecies that do not go together.

 

In Jeremiah, we see this.

 

Jeremiah 29:10 This is what the Lord says: “When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my good promise to bring you back to this place. 11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back from captivity.  I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile.”

 

This is where the confusion enters, people assume 70 years for Babylon operate under the same time clock as Daniel's 70 weeks.  Babylon is not Israel, Israel's 70th week was delayed, Babylon's is not.  The Lord is clear that the time of Jacob's trouble revolves around their exile, and through chapter 30 we see that the things prophesied are dealing with issues of this world, not an eternal one.  These prophecies have been fulfilled already.

 

Jeremiah 30:10 “‘So do not be afraid, Jacob my servant;
    do not be dismayed, Israel,’
declares the Lord.
‘I will surely save you out of a distant place,
    your descendants from the land of their exile.
Jacob will again have peace and security,
    and no one will make him afraid.
11 I am with you and will save you,’
    declares the Lord.
Though I completely destroy all the nations
    among which I scatter you,
    I will not completely destroy you.

I will discipline you but only in due measure;
    I will not let you go entirely unpunished.’

 

This has been fulfilled, these are events that follow the time of Jacob's trouble.

 

Jeremiah 30:16 “‘But all who devour you will be devoured;
    all your enemies will go into exile.
Those who plunder you will be plundered;
    all who make spoil of you I will despoil.
17 But I will restore you to health
    and heal your wounds,’
declares the Lord,
‘because you are called an outcast,
    Zion for whom no one cares.’

 

This has been fulfilled.

 

Jeremiah 30:

18 “This is what the Lord says:

“‘I will restore the fortunes of Jacob’s tents
    and have compassion on his dwellings;
the city will be rebuilt on her ruins,
    and the palace will stand in its proper place.

 

This has been fulfilled.

 

Jeremiah 30:21 Their leader will be one of their own;
    their ruler will arise from among them.

 

We see here that at this time, Israel will not be ruled by a king as was the case in the past, nor does it refer to the Lord.  Instead he is a leader, or how about prime minister.  Chapter 30 closes by saying 'in days to come you will understand this.'  This makes it clear that there are days still to come, and as we get into chapter 31 we see that the tone shifts from things of this world to things of an eternal nature as the chapter progresses.

 

Jeremiah 31

 “At that time,” declares the Lord, “I will be the God of all the families of Israel, and they will be my people.”

This is what the Lord says:

“The people who survive the sword
    will find favor in the wilderness;
    I will come to give rest to Israel.”

 

Here we see Jeremiah reference Hosea's prophecy and what John records in Revelation 12, this prophecy is still a future event.

 

Jeremiah 31:See, I will bring them from the land of the north
    and gather them from the ends of the earth.
Among them will be the blind and the lame,
    expectant mothers and women in labor;
    a great throng will return.
They will come with weeping;
    they will pray as I bring them back.
I will lead them beside streams of water
    on a level path where they will not stumble,
because I am Israel’s father,
    and Ephraim is my firstborn son.

 

This prophecy is being fulfilled as we speak.

 

Jeremiah 31:11 For the Lord will deliver Jacob
    and redeem them from the hand of those stronger than they.
12 They will come and shout for joy on the heights of Zion;
    they will rejoice in the bounty of the Lord
the grain, the new wine and the olive oil,
    the young of the flocks and herds.
They will be like a well-watered garden,
    and they will sorrow no more.

 

In this passage we see we finally arrive at the end, no more sorrow.  We all know when this takes place, the end of the age.  Remember that Jesus only references one old testament prophet in Matthew 24, Daniel.  The reason is simple, He was making it clear that Daniel's vision is directly related to the end times, which is not the case with the time of Jacob's trouble.  Only John and Daniel received this vision, the other prophets were told what to say by the Lord Himself in regards to the end times.

 

The time of Jacob's trouble was specifically for the nation Israel, which is why it was called Jacob's trouble.  The great tribulation is a time of trouble for the entire world, not just one nation.  This is why it is called the 'great tribulation', because it is a world wide event that eventually ends in the total destruction of both the heaven and earth, and the ushering in of a new heaven and earth, perfection.

 



#8
OakWood

OakWood

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,078 posts

I think the title is misleading. I don't see preterism as the most dangerous of teachings. Dangerous maybe, but not the most dangerous. It's not exactly blasphemy, just a terrible misinterpretation of scripture.

The most dangerous of teachings are the ones that cause people to lose their salvation such as Satanism, or telling people that all religions lead to God and Christ is not the only way. Or false teachings and heresies within churches that cause people to accept sins as being good things.

Preterism is just a peculiarity based on poor scriptural knowledge and poor knowledge of history.



#9
bopeep1909

bopeep1909

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,892 posts

Yes,a person will not go to hell for believing this.They would go to hell for not believing in Jesus Christ.



#10
kingdomwitness

kingdomwitness

    Advanced Member

  • Members *
  • PipPipPip
  • 437 posts
I have some questions for preterists. When did the judgement happen if Revelation is past? How were the saints gathered? Why wasn't there a rapture when Antiochus Epiphanes desecrated the temple and why wasn't that the end of Daniel's prophecy of 70 weeks? These are points to consider

#11
WillfromTexas

WillfromTexas

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 304 posts

If I encountered one I'd just encourage them to study their Bible.  I'm not sure how anyone would believe it's already happened if they knew their Bible.

 

Not sure if it's the most dangerous, but it isn't good to say the least.  Especially since the End Times are right upon us and Revelation is unfolding right before our eyes.



#12
kingdomwitness

kingdomwitness

    Advanced Member

  • Members *
  • PipPipPip
  • 437 posts

If I encountered one I'd just encourage them to study their Bible. I'm not sure how anyone would believe it's already happened if they knew their Bible.

Not sure if it's the most dangerous, but it isn't good to say the least. Especially since the End Times are right upon us and Revelation is unfolding right before our eyes.

That's right brother!

#13
GlidingWings

GlidingWings

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 435 posts

Ok, I should have titled this a dangerous Bible prophecy. I guess I chose this title at the time because using the most dangerous would emphasize a strong statement against future Bible prophecy. I know this is not the most dangerous teaching. But rather one of the most dangerous Prophecy teaching making many not to be ready at all.

 

Please I would like to share why I put in this post. And hopefully then you will understand perhaps hopefully. Well friends recently I was posting at another Christian forum which I got into a great debate in the Prophecy section. What I did not realize that there was a ‘preturist section” allowing this to be discussed. When I actually thought I was in regular End times. Yes very berry you are correct. The site that I speak of is the same one you know. This poster is very memorized in Preterism. Believe me you would be pulling out your hair.

 

I've never before gone up against a Preterist believer such as this person. But I wanted to give it a try. What became difficult is this poster proves to be at the same time provoking in his words to make us futurists angry. He will say I'm laughing. He will put dancing emoticons saying yeah I got you there.

I should have just walked away? Perhaps. But I still wanted to to take time to debate this teaching. We were discussing 70 weeks of Daniel fulfillment. Less studied I did some home reading on this topic to get a little Pastoral input a for these verses. Of course all pastors with future kind of thinking like I have.

This was long discussion on several hundred replies. It was like the never ending OJ Simpson trial. Let's get this over with. My girlfriend was observing everything. She told me this guy is like a snake sneaky in his words. She is not even into Bible prophecy but easy to find the gaps in his theory. He said for exactly the first resurrection took place right after 70 AD which included Paul and the 2Thess Church also got raptured at that time into Heaven. The poster says Paul says “We” that are alive shall be caught up with them in the clouds. He said Paul meant we back then only those people would see this rapture and first resurrection happened right after 70 AD Jerusalem temple destruction. Then this poster laughs. Ha haha. A third temple in thee Future. It will never happen.

 

Do you now see the predicament I was in? Thankfully another futurist was working along with me. This allowed me to take breaks to do some reading study in between to come back with later replies. Actually I replied less than most everyone else.

Eventually I finally got out of this debate. Enough was enough. 2 days after I left the thread was locked because both sides were saying harsh things. So why is this teaching so dangerous in the Church? Because God is the spirit of Truth. We must at our best to represent God making the Word of God to be true using much discernment and reliance on God and the Holy Spirit which is Truth. . God does not lie and that becomes a big issue. To make some wrong interpretations here and there is acceptable for which we are human and all do make mistakes. But when interpretations totally change things around completely this has become a great dilemma.

Imagine in your area ten churches. 7 of them are preterist and 3 of them futurist. Is that a scary thought? Well friends that just may happen if this gets out of hand. . and then you will know why this is so dangerous to be taught or believed. Because people are looking for satisfying I don't want to suffer at all interpretations. Preterist offers that “non suffering” teaching everyone is fine and dandy. But think again God is the spirit of Truth.

John 4:24

God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

John 4:23-25 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

 

We are told specifically to take heed and watch closely the signs of the end. If they teach there is no signs they are posting against God's commandment “Ye therefor watch these things” so breaking this commandment is troubling.

So millions of Christians believing this will be relaxing all the time just to find out there are future prophecy events after all. This leaves them unprepared in every aspect of things. No one wants to find out troubling news the last moment with with no time to prepare.

What if someone said to you join our wedding today? But we already had a doctor appt. Are you ready for this wedding announced on the same day?. Certainly not. And you would be annoyed with this friend who told you the last minute.. Because also remember the Ten Virgins also is a commandment from God for Christians to be ready. Those who are not ready will be”Left Behind” to miss the Rapture.

That’s why Preterism is dangerous the unready is proven to ‘not’ be saved after all. They not ready was not a part of the wedding supper of the lamb. So thus watch for “ The Thief in the night. So it is because of these scriptures ten virgins thief in the night why I posted this. Because we are commanded to watch in which preterism teaches exactly the opposite. Watch for signs. They laugh. It all has happened. They yawn in your face in mockery.

So in my opinion this is a very dangerous teaching Prophecy wise.. As being the most dangerous I agree with everyone on that. This is not the most dangerous Church teaching as some Churches teach Christianity Islam combo or Churches that talk to dead spirits. Yes I agree those Churches are much more dangerous than preterism But I think we should witness to those who we meet that may believe in in correct Bible Doctrine. As Jesus told us beware of the yeast.

Mark 8:15

Then He charged them, saying, “Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod.”

Mark 8:14-16 (in Context) Mark 8 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations



#14
Qnts2

Qnts2

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,563 posts

I think the title is misleading. I don't see preterism as the most dangerous of teachings. Dangerous maybe, but not the most dangerous. It's not exactly blasphemy, just a terrible misinterpretation of scripture.

The most dangerous of teachings are the ones that cause people to lose their salvation such as Satanism, or telling people that all religions lead to God and Christ is not the only way. Or false teachings and heresies within churches that cause people to accept sins as being good things.

Preterism is just a peculiarity based on poor scriptural knowledge and poor knowledge of history.

 

From my view, preterism must interpret much of scripture as symbolic, not literal. So in the case of Israel, the promises are not really and literally given to Israel and therefore Israel has no future promises. What impact does this have to the Jewish people? Well, from the preterist view vs the Jewish view, preterism teaches that God in the NT lied to the Jewish people.  So, if the preterist view teaches that God lied to the Jewish people and the NT is the revelation of Jesus, can Jesus be viewed as the Messiah? In otherwords, the full preterist theology would lead Jewish people to reject Jesus as the Messiah.



#15
kingdomwitness

kingdomwitness

    Advanced Member

  • Members *
  • PipPipPip
  • 437 posts
Preterism could be an error. But I also interpret bible prophecies as symbolic and I discovered that for the future to be clearer, one must sometimes refer to the past.

#16
Qnts2

Qnts2

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,563 posts

Preterism could be an error. But I also interpret bible prophecies as symbolic and I discovered that for the future to be clearer, one must sometimes refer to the past.

 

It depends on what you mean as 'symbolic'.

 

For example, there were many prophesies that the children of Israel would be scattered from the land of Israel and live among the gentiles. These prophesies were told to the Jewish people before the scattering, and later they were literally scattered. Among the prophesies of the scattering, the prophets also told the Jewish people before the scattering, that a time would come when the Jewish people would be brought back into the land of Israel. Since the prophesy given to the children of Israel said they would be scattered, and that happened to the children of Israel, it is very simple to believe that God will literally re-gather the children of Israel into the land, and the Messiah will come and defeat Israels enemies. But, many see the regathering and the Messiah coming to Israel as symbolic, in that they believe God did not really mean literal, physical Israel, but now means the 'Church', mostly Gentiles. Of course, Jewish people see that kind of teaching as telling them that God lied to them. The first part, the bad part literally happened, but the regathering won't literally happen to the Jewish people.  

 

If symbolism, or spiritualized interpretation contradicts the literal or plain meaning of the text, then it is problematic.



#17
kingdomwitness

kingdomwitness

    Advanced Member

  • Members *
  • PipPipPip
  • 437 posts
Not all prophecies in the bible are symbolic. For example The war of Gog and Magog and a gathering of a faithful remnant of Israelites. These are literal to me.




Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Message Boards - 1999-2014 part of the Worthy Network