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Genesis 4:5

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#1
hmbld

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Genesis 4:5       But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

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Was Cain supposed to know his offering would not be accepted, and if so, how?



#2
shiloh357

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Genesis 4:5       But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

  •  

 

 

 

Was Cain supposed to know his offering would not be accepted, and if so, how?

Yes.   The difference between Cain and Abel is that Abel brought the best of what he had.  But the Bible doesn't say that about Cain.  Cain brought what was acceptable in his own eyes.

Abel's offering was made by faith and Cain's wasn't.  That is what it says about them in Hebrews 11.



#3
Spock

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I believe some form of a burnt offering (fat portions from firstborn of flock) was required and Able fulfilled this requirement.

Cain seemed to rather bring some form of grain offering (fruits of the soil) instead. Genesis 4:3-7

God said to Cain, if he does what is right (get the right offering dude) and this will be accepted. Apparently, He didn't feel like doing it.

#4
Hippie333

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The superiority  of Abel's sacrifice to Cain's, lay both in the matter, and in the manner of it; Abel's was offered heartily to the Lord, Cain's  only in show; Abel's was offered in faith, Cain's was not..



#5
OakWood

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I can always picture Cain as not really making an effort as if he couldn't be bothered. He just picked something. God didn't seem too displeased. He didn't punish Cain for it, but Cain didn't like God's approval of Abel and he went off the handle.



#6
shiloh357

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I believe some form of a burnt offering (fat portions from firstborn of flock) was required and Able fulfilled this requirement.

Cain seemed to rather bring some form of grain offering (fruits of the soil) instead. Genesis 4:3-7

God said to Cain, if he does what is right (get the right offering dude) and this will be accepted. Apparently, He didn't feel like doing it.

It wasn't the type of offering that God wasn't pleased with.   They were suppposed to bring the best of what they had. God received non blood offerings made of vegitable sources in the Bible, so the point wasn't that it wasn't a blood offering.    The problem that the Bible makes known is that Can didn't bring the best of his fields and thus it was not an offering acceptable to the Lord.   Abel didn't merely bring a blood offering.  He brought the best of what he had.  If Abel had brought a sick animal to offer, his offerig would have been rejected just like God rejected Cain's offering.



#7
Izzel

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Genesis 4:5       But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

  •  

 

 

 

Was Cain supposed to know his offering would not be accepted, and if so, how?

 

Do you think that was cain first offerring ?



#8
gdemoss

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Did Cain know?  Yes.  How did he know?  His brother was a prophet.



#9
hmbld

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" God received non blood offerings made of vegitable sources in the Bible, so the point wasn't that it wasn't a blood offering. The problem that the Bible makes known is that Can didn't bring the best of his fields and thus it was not an offering acceptable to the Lord."

 

Ok, I was understanding it was the substance of what was offered, i see now.

 

 

 

"Did Cain know?  Yes.  How did he know?  His brother was a prophet."

 

This i don't understand?  Cains's actions after this certainly tell of what is in his heart, but my original question was because i thought Cain had made a mistake in what he offered.



#10
hmbld

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"Do you think that was cain first offering ?"

 

From what i read in Gen chapt 4, yes i read it as being the first time he made an offering, after rereading it i see it does not specify, so now information on whether this was the first time or not is not provided.  Not sure if it matters if it was the first time Cain made an offering to to Lord?



#11
WillfromTexas

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"Do you think that was cain first offering ?"

 

From what i read in Gen chapt 4, yes i read it as being the first time he made an offering, after rereading it i see it does not specify, so now information on whether this was the first time or not is not provided.  Not sure if it matters if it was the first time Cain made an offering to to Lord?

 

I doubt it was the first time and they'd made offerings.  Surely Adam and Eve had raised them to make offerings to the Lord.  To me it adds to the meaning if it isn't the first offering because it shows that over time he lost respect for God.  Demonstrating to us that we shouldn't neglect our sacrifices to the Lord and always give our best.  That is part of the overall point of course but just a reinforcement to the meaning.



#12
Spock

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"Do you think that was cain first offering ?"
 
From what i read in Gen chapt 4, yes i read it as being the first time he made an offering, after rereading it i see it does not specify, so now information on whether this was the first time or not is not provided.  Not sure if it matters if it was the first time Cain made an offering to to Lord?

 
I doubt it was the first time and they'd made offerings.  Surely Adam and Eve had raised them to make offerings to the Lord.  To me it adds to the meaning if it isn't the first offering because it shows that over time he lost respect for God.  Demonstrating to us that we shouldn't neglect our sacrifices to the Lord and always give our best.  That is part of the overall point of course but just a reinforcement to the meaning.

Interesting gleaning. It made me think about how often people come to The Lord with enthusiasm and then over time they lose it and it becomes merely traditional. That could easily creep up on any of us, including me. Yikes! Again, Thanks for this input.

#13
Shar

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Abel brought the firstborn of his flock.   However, Cain brought some fruits of the soil.  Remember, sin had now entered the world and fellowship with G-d could not go without the covering of those sins.  He. 9:22 reminds us that "without the shedding of blood there is not forgiveness of sins.  G-d set up this offering system for various reasons and times.  We get a better understanding of these offering through Moses' writings. 

 

Because there were fat portions involved in Abel's offering it was probably the required time for the Sin Offering that was for payment of unintentional sins of uncleaness, neglect or thoughtlessness.  G-d's response to Cain indicates that "if you do what is right, will you not be accepted"?  In other words, Cain probably brought a Grain Offering that was voluntary and was used as an expression of gratitude instead.  It was not the time for that offering.  He decided to do it his way instead of G-d's way.  The true essence of sin.  In Hebrews 11, "By faith, Abel offered a better sacrifice".  Faith comes by believing.  He believed G-d and obeyed Him.  The expression of true faith.

 

Remember, they were vegetarians and did not eat meat. Ge.1: 29-30.  They did not eat meat until after Noah exited the ark. Ge.9:3.  These flocks would be primarily used for the needed sacrifices.  Secondarily, they would be used for clothing or milk.  G-d's instructions obviously were handed down orally, because we see that the first thing Noah does when he exits the ark is to build an alter and made an offering to the L-rd.  I am sure that after being in the ark for over a year, that there were some sins that needed to be covered.



#14
Spock

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Abel brought the firstborn of his flock.   However, Cain brought some fruits of the soil.  Remember, sin had now entered the world and fellowship with G-d could not go without the covering of those sins.  He. 9:22 reminds us that "without the shedding of blood there is not forgiveness of sins.  G-d set up this offering system for various reasons and times.  We get a better understanding of these offering through Moses' writings. 
 
Because there were fat portions involved in Abel's offering it was probably the required time for the Sin Offering that was for payment of unintentional sins of uncleaness, neglect or thoughtlessness.  G-d's response to Cain indicates that "if you do what is right, will you not be accepted"?  In other words, Cain probably brought a Grain Offering that was voluntary and was used as an expression of gratitude instead.  It was not the time for that offering.  He decided to do it his way instead of G-d's way.  The true essence of sin.  In Hebrews 11, "By faith, Abel offered a better sacrifice".  Faith comes by believing.  He believed G-d and obeyed Him.  The expression of true faith.
 
Remember, they were vegetarians and did not eat meat. Ge.1: 29-30.  They did not eat meat until after Noah exited the ark. Ge.9:3.  These flocks would be primarily used for the needed sacrifices.  Secondarily, they would be used for clothing or milk.  G-d's instructions obviously were handed down orally, because we see that the first thing Noah does when he exits the ark is to build an alter and made an offering to the L-rd.  I am sure that after being in the ark for over a year, that there were some sins that needed to be covered.


Sounds good to me, Shar. Thanks for this.

#15
JohnDB

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Genesis 4:5       But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

  •  

 

 

 

Was Cain supposed to know his offering would not be accepted, and if so, how?

 

By the means in the Hebrew which he killed his brother (ceremonial slitting of throat) Cain and Abel had more sacrificial information than the biblical record divulges.

 

If Cain had taken the best of his crops and used them to pay for acceptable sacrifices from his brother's flock, then pride and ego would have been appeased.

 

Rather he felt (as so many of us do when we admit it) God is not entitled to our best or that extra effort to purchase the acceptable sacrifice probably using the argument "my line of work is just as noble as his, and my best crops are as good as his flocks..."

 

How often we do the same...

 

So, in rage he essentially sacrificed Abel the way the animal would have been.

 

It was a vindictive snipe at God as well as a jealous anger towards his brother...

 

The Lord gave him a BIG forgiveness package... but it cost him dearly as he loved to grow things...

 

Interesting his lot in life was to build a city after that.

 

When folks have lived in rural areas they tend to be honest God-fearing... and when trouble grows for humanity it tends to start in cities.

 

Lesson learned from Cain... when God says do it a certain way... do it that certain way... there is a much bigger purpose than our puny lives though the Lord highly values us (which is all we really have going for us). Do it because he said to. We do not need to know why.

 

And usually when we do we are blessed and sometimes we see why...

 

It's really a matter of trust.

 

Adam and Eve trusted God until they didn't...



#16
hmbld

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Hmmm. It seems there are conflicting views on whether it's the substance being offered. The verses are so short and to the point. I don't know how you can infer it was or was not the first time they made an offering based on the verses?

#17
Hippie333

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Genesis 4:5 ( Gill's Commentary)
 

But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect,.... Not because of the matter of it, as some have thought; but because it was not offered in faith and sincerity, but in a formal and hypocritical manner, without any regard to the Messiah and his sacrifice, and without any view to the glory of God: no notice was taken, no approbation was given of it by the above token, or any other; so that it was manifest to Cain himself, that God did not approve of it, or was well pleased with it, as with his brother's:

and Cain was very wroth; with God, to whom he offered it, because he did not accept of it, and with his brother, because he and his sacrifice were preferred to him and his:

and his countenance fell; the briskness and cheerfulness of his countenance went off, and he looked dejected; and instead of lifting up his face towards heaven; he looked with a down look to the earth; he looked churlish, morose, and sullen, ill natured, full of malice and revenge, and as if he was studying which way to vent it; he knit his brows and gnashed his teeth, put on a surly countenance; and there might be seen in his face all the signs, not only of grief and disappointment, but of rage and fury; though  some interpret it of shame and confusion



#18
hmbld

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And yet, i read other places that it is the second foreshadowing example of blood sacrifice, the first example being when God clothed Adam and Eve after they sinned.  

 It does not say why God did not respect Cain's offering, so is it reading too far into it to say it is an example of foreshadowing?  



#19
Hippie333

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It's actually "BOTH" reasons - it's an all encompassing answer - was it the offering itself - yes - was it the faith/heart it was offered with - yes -

 

http://www.oneplace....ent-385729.html

 

great 30 min sermon on the subject -



#20
gdemoss

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"Did Cain know?  Yes.  How did he know?  His brother was a prophet."

 

This i don't understand?  

 

How do we know what God wants from us today?  The Prophet, who is the Son of God, came and told us and is in us showing us by faith as we continue on through life.  The bible tells us that Abel was a prophet.  He brought the word of God to Cain and Cain refused it is the simplest form that I believe happened otherwise there was no reason to kill Abel out of rage as he did.  Cain killed Abel because his own works were evil.  Abel was merely the bearer of bad news telling him why God did not have respect unto his offering.  I won't try to infer the reasoning that was given unto Cain as to why his offering wasn't accepted but being a prophet of God Abel would know.  Our offerings today are much different than the offerings acceptable in the past.  We don't offer the blood of bulls and goats any longer and they are not acceptable to God from our hands today as we are called to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice unto God as a reasonable service.  Hear the prophets of God.  Do not despise prophecy and prove all things holding fast to that which is true.






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