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The disabled man at the pool (Bethasda)

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#1
celebratejesus

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I read this today, and it amazes me how often I can read something, and still get something new each time.  Today I realized, in my own life, it is hard for me to say I really "want" to be healed.  I think it is scarey taking on the responsibilities of life, and also, for me, I am "tired" of the battle of everyday life.  I prefer not to get kicked in the teeth for admitting this, but that's ok too, God is at the helm of my life.

 

I just wonder how many others have been asked the question "do you want to be healed" and not been sure you do.  I mean after all, if you are disabled, a lot of things might come your way, care from people, provision you don't have to earn etc.  I mean I think about all this.  But also I think about Jesus saying "take up your mat and walk".  That is what got me going today. I have to try, what is left if I don't?

 

I'm off to church, and it's been awhile for that too, so I may not get back to anyone that replies, right away.  I do want to say this is JUST about me, I don't know other's circumstances, I just know it is a battle to keep moving ahead, especially when I am not sticking close enough to the Lord.  And to be confused as to whether or not I really want tell Him "yes Lord"  I will do as You say is scarey, especially when I say that, then I don't do it.

 

God bless all, Denise

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#2
Marnie

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Denise,

I have a disability and have experienced G-d's healing. Go figure...I mean, how weird is it to be "mostly" healed? Here's the thing: I know G-d can heal and I know He could completely heal me if He wanted to. But I have learned to be content. Life is good. G-d blesses. I no longer yearn to be healed; I know I will be made whole one day, and that's good enough for me.

#3
celebratejesus

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Denise,

I have a disability and have experienced G-d's healing. Go figure...I mean, how weird is it to be "mostly" healed? Here's the thing: I know G-d can heal and I know He could completely heal me if He wanted to. But I have learned to be content. Life is good. G-d blesses. I no longer yearn to be healed; I know I will be made whole one day, and that's good enough for me.

That's a wonderful witness, and mostly, I wanted to tell you that what I need healing of is an attitude of fear.  I think I have been beaten down, and because I wasn't depending on God for my strength, but myself.  I understand some physical disabilities as well, I have some.  Like you, I feel they have actually been used by God to make me lean on Him more, not myself.  It's funny since church was all about how God does the establishing of our faith, and then He also supplies our strength. 

 

God bless your day, a sister in Christ, Denise



#4
nebula

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what I need healing of is an attitude of fear.

Fear, yes, that is a hard one to let go of. Sigh.

 

I have come to learn that the cure for fear is not "faith," but love. ("Perfect love casts out fear....")

 

Fear is the outcome of not feeling (experiential, belief-feeling) secure in/about God's love.

 

Now, how to get oneself to feeling secure in/about God's love - I haven't figured that part out yet. :sad030:



#5
Marnie

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Denise,
I have a disability and have experienced G-d's healing. Go figure...I mean, how weird is it to be "mostly" healed? Here's the thing: I know G-d can heal and I know He could completely heal me if He wanted to. But I have learned to be content. Life is good. G-d blesses. I no longer yearn to be healed; I know I will be made whole one day, and that's good enough for me.

That's a wonderful witness, and mostly, I wanted to tell you that what I need healing of is an attitude of fear.  I think I have been beaten down, and because I wasn't depending on God for my strength, but myself.  I understand some physical disabilities as well, I have some.  Like you, I feel they have actually been used by God to make me lean on Him more, not myself.  It's funny since church was all about how God does the establishing of our faith, and then He also supplies our strength. 
 
God bless your day, a sister in Christ, Denise

Gotcha! Fear can be crippling. It's a good thing to learn...dependence on G-d. It's a good way to live.

#6
celebratejesus

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Denise,
I have a disability and have experienced G-d's healing. Go figure...I mean, how weird is it to be "mostly" healed? Here's the thing: I know G-d can heal and I know He could completely heal me if He wanted to. But I have learned to be content. Life is good. G-d blesses. I no longer yearn to be healed; I know I will be made whole one day, and that's good enough for me.

That's a wonderful witness, and mostly, I wanted to tell you that what I need healing of is an attitude of fear.  I think I have been beaten down, and because I wasn't depending on God for my strength, but myself.  I understand some physical disabilities as well, I have some.  Like you, I feel they have actually been used by God to make me lean on Him more, not myself.  It's funny since church was all about how God does the establishing of our faith, and then He also supplies our strength. 
 
God bless your day, a sister in Christ, Denise

Gotcha! Fear can be crippling. It's a good thing to learn...dependence on G-d. It's a good way to live.

 

I forgot about that verse, thank you Marnie!  That is the one I needed to hear.  Yes, I would like to get to a point where I could honestly say that I was 100% secure in God's love, it's like I know it with my head, but the rest of me is still sweatin it at times:)  Thanks again, and God bless your evening, Denise, ysic



#7
Willa

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One time many years ago I was having a bad asthma attack and great difficulty breathing. As I prayed, God spoke to me in that still small voice. What are you afraid of, dying? That is like falling backwards into Daddy God's arms! Now when I was very young, my daddy would have me fall backwards and l learned to trust that he was always there to catch me. How much more our loving Daddy in heaven will be there to catch us, and suddenly that warm feeling swept over me. The fear was gone.

#8
celebratejesus

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One time many years ago I was having a bad asthma attack and great difficulty breathing. As I prayed, God spoke to me in that still small voice. What are you afraid of, dying? That is like falling backwards into Daddy God's arms! Now when I was very young, my daddy would have me fall backwards and l learned to trust that he was always there to catch me. How much more our loving Daddy in heaven will be there to catch us, and suddenly that warm feeling swept over me. The fear was gone.

Thank you Willamina, I suppose I can depend on Him no matter how old I get.  That is one of my biggest fears right now, so many things I can't do now, that I could do just a few years ago.  Well, like I heard at church today, again, was that God establishes our faith, and then He also is our strength.  There wasn't anything in there about age, or He'll stop being the God He is when I am older.  In fact all I am reading and hearing as to do with total dependence on Him is the what He wants:)  So boy am I headed in that direction, letting go a little more each day:)



#9
Willa

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Many of us are going through this. The amplified version concurs with Kenneth Wuest's Expanded Version of Hebrews 13:5-6

Let your manner of life be without love of money, being content with your present circumstances. For He Himself has said, and the statement is on record, I will not, I will not cease to sustain and uphold you. I will not, I will not, I will not let you down. So that, being of good courage, we are saying, The Lord is my Helper. I will not fear. What shall man do to me?

And I am leaning heavily on the above promise because I am terrified of dentists. And since I broke my molar yesterday and a large filling fell out, I have mixed feelings about going to the dentist tomarrow. Maybe he will fix it with a temp, but I will certainly need a crown. Right now it is hard to eat and the tooth is very sharp. I stuffed wax into it, Oh, well. This too shall pass.

I do identify with your grief of loss of function. We used to enjoy birdwatching and traveling in WA and OR. But we have been able to do very little in the last 3 years either. Often I miss church, too, and as my favorite psalm expresses, I love praising God in the assembly. It is even grievous to be unable to do so. The inversion caused me to lose my voice. Some gravely squeeky sounds have come back since the wind has come through.

I guess we need to rejoice in what we are able to do. I can still: use my fingers to post, walk into church without help, praise God in my heart. I can hear fairly well, drive, see better after catarac removal, breath with the help of medication, and manage pain with meds. God has been faithful to His word. I can still enjoy the photos that hubby took in the past. God has answered so many prayers: saved hubby and our sons, their wives and most of our grand kids (but I continue to pray for them to make strong commitments to Him). How dare I be afraid with such a faithful and loving Father at hand?

#10
Edwin

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Thank you Denise for your topic.
 
The pool of Bethesda.
 

Whenever I read Scripture I am always keen to ask questions, for example lets have a look two separate accounts of Divine healing as given at,

 

Mat 12:22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw.

 

And compare this with,

 

Jhn 5:1 After this there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
Jhn 5:2 Now there is in Jerusalem by the Sheep Gate a pool, in Aramaic called Bethesda, which has five roofed colonnades.
Jhn 5:3 In these lay a multitude of invalids—blind, lame, and paralyzed.
Jhn 5:5 One man was there who had been an invalid for thirty-eight years.
Jhn 5:6 When Jesus saw him lying there and knew that he had already been there a long time, he said to him, “Do you want to be healed?”
Jhn 5:7 The sick man answered him, “Sir, I have no one to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up, and while I am going another steps down before me.”
Jhn 5:8 Jesus said to him, “Get up, take up your bed, and walk.”
Jhn 5:9 And at once the man was healed, and he took up his bed and walked.Now that day was the Sabbath.
Jhn 5:10 So the Jews said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath, and it is not lawful for you to take up your bed.”
Jhn 5:11 But he answered them, “The man who healed me, that man said to me, ‘Take up your bed, and walk.’”
Jhn 5:12 They asked him, “Who is the man who said to you, ‘Take up your bed and walk’?”
Jhn 5:13 Now the man who had been healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, as there was a crowd in the place
Jhn 5:14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you.”

 

1. Why is it that in the first example it only requires 1 verse, whereas in the second example requires 14 verses ?

 

2. Why is it that in the second example, we are given a detailed description of the location ?

 

3. Why does verse 5 mention 38 years ?

 

4. Why is this further confirmed by Jesus in verse 6 when we are told that He says, “and knew that he had already been there a long time” ?

 

5. Why did Jesus ask, "Do you want to be healed?", when it is quite obvious why the invalid was there, ...

 

6. Why did the invalid not say yes ?

 

7. Can any significance be attached to our Lord’s words at verse 8 ?

 

8. Why did Jesus withdraw, and therefore have to find him in another location, when He could have said, “See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to

you.” when He had the invalids attention at the pool ?

 

9. What is the sin to which Jesus refers in verse 14, and what could be the something worse that may happen ?

 

I look forward to reading what you have to say.

Thank you.

Edwin.

Edited by paredwin, 14 January 2014 - 12:36 PM.


#11
celebratejesus

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Many of us are going through this. The amplified version concurs with Kenneth Wuest's Expanded Version of Hebrews 13:5-6

Let your manner of life be without love of money, being content with your present circumstances. For He Himself has said, and the statement is on record, I will not, I will not cease to sustain and uphold you. I will not, I will not, I will not let you down. So that, being of good courage, we are saying, The Lord is my Helper. I will not fear. What shall man do to me?

And I am leaning heavily on the above promise because I am terrified of dentists. And since I broke my molar yesterday and a large filling fell out, I have mixed feelings about going to the dentist tomarrow. Maybe he will fix it with a temp, but I will certainly need a crown. Right now it is hard to eat and the tooth is very sharp. I stuffed wax into it, Oh, well. This too shall pass.

I do identify with your grief of loss of function. We used to enjoy birdwatching and traveling in WA and OR. But we have been able to do very little in the last 3 years either. Often I miss church, too, and as my favorite psalm expresses, I love praising God in the assembly. It is even grievous to be unable to do so. The inversion caused me to lose my voice. Some gravely squeeky sounds have come back since the wind has come through.

I guess we need to rejoice in what we are able to do. I can still: use my fingers to post, walk into church without help, praise God in my heart. I can hear fairly well, drive, see better after catarac removal, breath with the help of medication, and manage pain with meds. God has been faithful to His word. I can still enjoy the photos that hubby took in the past. God has answered so many prayers: saved hubby and our sons, their wives and most of our grand kids (but I continue to pray for them to make strong commitments to Him). How dare I be afraid with such a faithful and loving Father at hand?

I loved reading this today Willa, thank you again, especially about the Lord always holding us up, always.  I will pray for your dental appt now Willa, Denise, ysic



#12
celebratejesus

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Thank you Denise for your topic.
 
The pool of Bethesda.
 

Whenever I read Scripture I am always keen to ask questions, for example lets have a look two separate accounts of Divine healing as given at,

 

Mat 12:22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw.

 

And compare this with,

 

Jhn 5:1 After this there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
Jhn 5:2 Now there is in Jerusalem by the Sheep Gate a pool, in Aramaic called Bethesda, which has five roofed colonnades.
Jhn 5:3 In these lay a multitude of invalids—blind, lame, and paralyzed.
Jhn 5:5 One man was there who had been an invalid for thirty-eight years.
Jhn 5:6 When Jesus saw him lying there and knew that he had already been there a long time, he said to him, “Do you want to be healed?”
Jhn 5:7 The sick man answered him, “Sir, I have no one to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up, and while I am going another steps down before me.”
Jhn 5:8 Jesus said to him, “Get up, take up your bed, and walk.”
Jhn 5:9 And at once the man was healed, and he took up his bed and walked.Now that day was the Sabbath.
Jhn 5:10 So the Jews said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath, and it is not lawful for you to take up your bed.”
Jhn 5:11 But he answered them, “The man who healed me, that man said to me, ‘Take up your bed, and walk.’”
Jhn 5:12 They asked him, “Who is the man who said to you, ‘Take up your bed and walk’?”
Jhn 5:13 Now the man who had been healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, as there was a crowd in the place
Jhn 5:14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you.”

 

1. Why is it that in the first example it only requires 1 verse, whereas in the second example requires 14 verses ?

 

2. Why is it that in the second example, we are given a detailed description of the location ?

 

3. Why does verse 5 mention 38 years ?

 

4. Why is this further confirmed by Jesus in verse 6 when we are told that He says, “and knew that he had already been there a long time” ?

 

5. Why did Jesus ask, "Do you want to be healed?", when it is quite obvious why the invalid was there, ...

 

6. Why did the invalid not say yes ?

 

7. Can any significance be attached to our Lord’s words at verse 8 ?

 

8. Why did Jesus withdraw, and therefore have to find him in another location, when He could have said, “See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to

you.” when He had the invalids attention at the pool ?

 

9. What is the sin to which Jesus refers in verse 14, and what could be the something worse that may happen ?

 

I look forward to reading what you have to say.

Thank you.

Edwin.

 

I may not get to this today Edwin, but God's Word is full of amazing connections, and ways to show us more about Him.  I am truly interested, but sometimes I get a bit overwhelmed with things so please forgive me if I don't keep up with it all.  I'm sure some others may want to jump in to at some point:) God bless your day, denise, a sister in Christ



#13
bopeep1909

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Some people who are disabled may want to be healed and it may happen and it may not happen.For God's Glory..



#14
celebratejesus

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Some people who are disabled may want to be healed and it may happen and it may not happen.For God's Glory..

that's so true, lots of loving christians don't get healed of every ailment/disability.



#15
bopeep1909

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Some people who are disabled may want to be healed and it may happen and it may not happen.For God's Glory..

that's so true, lots of loving christians don't get healed of every ailment/disability.

 

That is right.God answers our prays as yes,no and wait because I have something better.That something better might not be in our lifetime on this earth.We all have to suffer along with Christ as He suffered on the cross.Our human minds can not understand what God is doing at times.But it will be very clear when we see Him face to face.It is important to stay faithful to Christ during the disability.We will be rewarded in heaven for enduring that disability and remaining faithful to Him.



#16
celebratejesus

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Yes, I believe that as well bopeep, it is easy to trust God when things seem so perfect in life, I've sometimes even put Him on the back burner when things are going well.  I am learning that in hardships is when I grow most in Him, more of Him, less of me, way better way to be:)  I can tell you that I am have more joy in my life now, in all these trials, then I ever did when things were going cushy for me:)  I can understand praising Him in the storms of life now:) denise, ysic



#17
bopeep1909

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I sent you a PM :mgcheerful:



#18
Edwin

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Here are my thoughts on the 9 questions I asked.

 

1. Because it is not just the account of a simple straight forward healing. I believe there is another, subliminal message concealed just below the surface.

2. There are a number of reasons,

It was “by the Sheep Gate”. So there would be a continual flow of visitors. Many of whom would be at the end of a long journey, and would wish to rest for a while, in or near the large building having we are told, “five roofed colonnades”, we are also told, “there was a crowd in the place”

It was near by the pool called Bethesda where there was a multitude of invalids, who the visitors could observe, talk to, and perhaps also give monetary gifts to. This would be especially so in the case of the one man who had been an invalid for thirty-eight years, and who was being continually frustrated.

3. Now here we have a problem. Do you really think he would put up with being frustrated for 38 years, or do you think there could be another reason ?

4. The invalid might not in fact have been attending for the whole of 38 years, but it is confirmed that, “he had already been there a long time”

5. Could it be I wonder that Jesus knew the man did not really want to be healed ?

6. And is that why the invalid did not answer yes ?

7. We do not know the tone of voice Jesus used, but could His expression, “Get up”, express our Lords annoyance, and His contempt for what this man was doing ?

8. Because if He hadn’t, many in the crowd would have heard Him say, “Sin no more”, and would have concluded that the invalid was a confidence trickster.

9. It could be that those who discovered that the invalid was a confidence trickster, would punish him, and possibly stone him, which would be, “the something worse that may happen” ?

I am of the opinion that when the invalid first went to the pool, he had every intention of being healed. However, when he discovered just how generous people could be, especially in his case. He decided to exploit the situation, as he was in all probability receiving more money than he could ever expect to earn by honest toil.

He also had the advantage of not having to pretend to be a cripple. He really was one, and everyone knew it.

But then Jesus knew exactly what the man was up to.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I could of course be completely wrong.

Edwin.



#19
celebratejesus

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I think I can suppose many things about a verse, or verses like the ones on the invalid at the pool, but what is wonderful to me Edwin, is that I got what I was supposed to get from those verses.  Do I want to be healed?  That was the question that struck me the most, and opened my eyes to myself, and the question was straight from Jesus to me (that's what I believe).  I think I mentioned earlier I really had to question myself about that, do I want to be healed, or do I want to lay and wait, or even be taken care of.  And I don't think this whole "healing" thing just has to do with ones physical state.  Mine mind is my worst enemy at times, and that is what I want more than anything, is the renewing of my mind.

 

The reason I post this is because I am not one that is good at analyzing, dissecting, really diggin deep into the Word, right now, may never be.  For me personally, it is simple for me if I just allow the Holy Spirit to do the driving, and then I get the message. 

 

I appreciate your post above, it is thoughtful and thought-provoking.  For me I have to keep it simple, because God made it that way for me.  Another thing is, I really am just learning to "know" God, not just "about" Him:)  So baby-steps for me:)  Maybe there will come a day when I can dig a bit deeper, I dig deeper then I did when I began :mgdetective:  God bless you brother, a sister in Christ, denise



#20
Edwin

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Thank you very much Denise for your comments, and kind words, which are much appreciated.

Eph 3:20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us,
Eph 3:21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.

Every blessing to you my sister in the Lord.

Edwin.




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